Todd Akin's 'legitimate rape' and the Romney-Ryan war on women - VIDEO
By: Cahir O'Doherty | Published Friday, August 24, 2012, 11:16 AM | Updated Friday, August 24, 2012, 11:16 AM
Republican's war on women
Sometimes conservatives let the curtain drop and you can see what they really think about an issue. That happened this weekend with Congressman Todd Akin, the Representative from Missouri.
Akin agrees with Paul Ryan that abortion should be illegal in all cases, even when a woman is raped and becomes pregnant.
Women who have been "legitimately raped", said Akin, have mysterious ways of shutting down the process whereby they conceive.
"First of all, from what I understand from doctors (pregnancy from rape) is really rare. If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down," he said.
Call it voodoo, or call it female intuition, but a women knows when a baby should not be born and she refuses to allow herself to become pregnant, he inferred.
Akin is challenging Democratic incumbent Claire McCaskill, who I hope will shortly teach him a thing or two about reproductive biology and political campaigning.
Akin, by the way, sits on the House science committee, which explains why creationism and global-warming-denying are still such signature issues for the GOP.
It should be remembered that Akin and Ryan were the original co-sponsors of the extremist bill H.R. 3 'No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act' which included language which changed the definition of 'rape' to 'forcible rape' until public outcry forced them to change it back.
Like Akin, Ryan is not only anti-choice, he has been against abortion in all cases. Mitt Romney has said he would get rid of Planned Parenthood. So the war on women is back in the headlines and it's about time.
Akin himself has no question about what should happen if a women becomes pregnant through rape or incest and he said so: 'I think there should be some punishment, but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.'
There you go ladies. If these are sentiments you can support then team Romney/Ryan are your men.
Earlier this year, the US Dept of Justice gave the FBI a definition of 'rape' that included male victims as well as female and violation of the will of the victim, whether by violence or 'force' or other means. Akin's description of 'legitimate' meaning 'forcible' is an assault on the integrity of rape victims, young and not-young, female and male. But the national discussion of rape reached its most odious point with Paul Ryan's comment that rape is a "method of conception," i.e., a natural event, subject to his Church teaching that every human conception must be nurtured and protected until birth! Ryan and his priests and bishops need to learn that rape is not sex; rape is not 'natural'; rape that leads to conception is a tragedy compounded; rape is a heinous crime against real human victims. And to coerce a victim into continuing a pregnancy-by-rape is an unnatural violation of human rights.
seanomelb | Aug 26, 2012, 12:07 AM EDT
You're getting ahead of yourself Pittsburgh me boy or "there's none so blind-----
Pittsburghkid | Aug 25, 2012, 03:24 PM EDT
The War on Woman has been cancelled by the Democrats for lack of interest.
seanomelb | Aug 24, 2012, 11:40 PM EDT
Climb down from your ignorant high horse GoSox. I suppose Limbaugh and co.are your source of radical right wing drivvel.
miamicanes | Aug 23, 2012, 01:44 PM EDT
How can someone that old have that kind of thinking? Is that representative of the older folks there. No, before he apologizes he needs therapy. To say what he's said is akin to sexual harassment. Good grief, this is 2012, at least I think it is. And I am serious about the therapy.
GoSox | Aug 23, 2012, 10:51 AM EDT
TomSwinford, thanks for the comments. I'm glad to see your using the MSNBC talking points and believe eveything you hear from the current admin. Also, sorry to see that you have an anti-Isreal leaning position. I would gladly match my background and education against your in the formation of my concerns. Oddly, I didn't see you mention anything about the economy. Oh, I already know your answer . . . the economy would be much worse "but for Obama's intervention." I feel some degree of sadness for people of your intellect, in that you know better than everyone else. When you feel to see all sides of an issue and tend to rely on the only economic plan that has proven to fail time and time again. Oh well . . .
GoSox | Aug 22, 2012, 09:20 PM EDT
GoSox, so you're worried about a nuclear Iran and the expansion of the Chinese Navy. I feel for you lad. But let me enlighten you a tad since it seems your tv is stuck on FoxNews. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Martin Dempsey, has said that he considers the Iranian leadership "a rational actor," meaning that Iran will do nothing, but nothing to cause its own national suicide - which is precisely what would happen if Iran were insane enough to launch a nuclear missle on nuclear Israel. On the other hand, Israel's not-so-rational prime minister, Netanyahu, is itching to launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran and wants a U.S. guarantee of support in this lunatic action. Obama is wisely resisting. As for China's navy, were it necessary for the U.S. to attack it tomorrow, we could effectively destroy it entirely after breakfast and be home in time for lunch. Former Secretary of Defence, Bob Gates (a Republican) laughed out loud when he was asked if the Chinese Navy was a threat to the U.S. For example, we currently have 11 carrier groups, one more under construction and two more planned. China has zero carriers - after many years they're still trying to launch their first carrier, built on the hull of an old Soviet warship. The U.S. Navy is larger than the next 13 largest navies combined. Now, lad, why don't you go back to FoxNews and continue to wallow in Dumbville.
ciaradexy | Aug 22, 2012, 06:55 PM EDT
And I thought Irish politicians were stupid!? Seems yours are much worse America!
BrianO | Aug 22, 2012, 05:10 PM EDT
according to completely made up facts, no aborted babies are female.
eiriamach | Aug 22, 2012, 01:46 PM EDT
@Mousemess, you say, "I believe strongly this way regardless of my status as a faithful attendant of weekly Sunday church services." I don't see any dilemma. You wrote elsewhere on IC that you're an Episcopalian. Although ECUSA dislikes abortion in general (doesn't everyone?), its position is not monolithic, nor dogmatic, nor irrational. Episcopalians are open to the light that science can shed on concepts like "person," and, unlike RC, it does not oppose abortion to save a woman's life. For Episcopalians an informed conscience is autonomous, not enslaved to centuries-old dogma. To me, the wisdom of ECUSA lies in its resiliency, its willingness to rethink tradition in light of the Gospel received ever anew. To be able to correct the errors of the past rather than defending dysfunctional, anti-scientific doctrines and traditions is a special grace that appeals to the young and to people like me, who are appalled by the un-Christ-like, misogynist politics of some other groups that mislabel themselves "Christian."
GoSox | Aug 22, 2012, 01:30 PM EDT
Interesting Take . . . however, I am more concerned about the economy, finding jobs, the expansion of the Chinese Navy in the pacific and a Nuclear Iran. The current administration has proven it is inept at handling any of these issues. So, I think we need to put this one issue into proper context. The future of a country is at stake and all some people want to talk about are social issues that are no more going to change from what they are than is the color of the sky. lets get to the real issues and stop distracting from what is important to the future of my children!!!
hollabackgurl | Aug 22, 2012, 11:06 AM EDT
Paul Ryan and Todd Akin cosponsored a “personhood” bill that would not only prohibit rape survivors from seeking an abortion, but would likely treat terminating a pregnancy that results from rape as a homicide crime. Similarly, Ryan and Akin partnered on a bill seeking to prevent Medicaid recipients who are raped from obtaining an abortion unless they are victims of “forcible rape.”
eiriamach | Aug 22, 2012, 10:49 AM EDT
TomS, that's an incredible story of courage and love. Thanks for giving us that glimpse into family life in the west of Ireland. ~~~~~~~ A plank in the GOP platform adopted Monday opposes all abortion unconditionally, with no exceptions to save the lives or health of pregnant women, no exception for rape or incest or fatal fetal anomalies, no exception for child victims of rape, no role for information from medical science....
BrianO | Aug 22, 2012, 10:03 AM EDT
Hollaback, one step at a time, tough to face a death sentences when still in the womb. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Mousemess | Aug 22, 2012, 07:57 AM EDT
Paul Ryan makes ONE exception to his abortion belief...abortion IF the mother's life is in danger.
Other than that, as a male myself, it's gets on my very last nerve THAT MALES like Paul Ryan(who will never have to experience pregnancy in their own bodies) are trying to make laws against women's health issues even like preventing the availability of abortion in the case of rape and incest.
And I believe strongly this way regardless of my status as a faithful attendant of weekly Sunday church services.
hollabackgurl | Aug 22, 2012, 01:25 AM EDT
It's once your born that Republicans think protecting life is no longer sacred.
BrianO | Aug 21, 2012, 11:05 PM EDT
The abortionist have the legality to perform their procedures, they are very robotic in the snuffing out of life, there are always scenarios that justify outcomes. I believe it is not as simple as anyone makes it out to be. The women who have a conscience and abort deal with emotions that rarely are discussed. In the end I wish the unborn the chance to be born. I do not think this will be accomplished by changing law but by changing attitudes toward the importance of life.
BrianO | Aug 21, 2012, 10:58 PM EDT
eiriamach, I can easily relate to your story. It is much like my own. I was born and raised on a small farm in the west of Ireland - in the middle of seven sisters - and two older brothers. In between there were miscarriages and a still-born that almost took my mother's life. My mother worked in the fields with all of us and I learned about equality at an early age. My sisters' sweat smelled the same as mine and they worked just as hard - and I took my turn doing housework. We were mostly born in January and February - as we were conceived in the spring when my father would return from England for a few weeks to do what one local reporter wrote "... to fertilize their lands and their women." It was a hard, unforgiving life and my mother would tell me many years later how she dreaded the return of the man she truly loved for it would mean another baby. As children our greatest terror was that she would die and leave us alone in the world. Death was not uncommon around us, child-bearing women with large families, broken in health and in spirit just gave up. I often saw the despair in my mother's face and it haunted me. When I see the GOP and the church I was born into moralize about abortion and contraception I am enraged.
BrianO | Aug 21, 2012, 07:08 PM EDT
SingleDonald, "...using force is the only realistic definition of rape." Come now, surely you can do better than that. Say you meet a woman in a bar and use a so-called date rape drug to render her unconscious or semi-conscious and therefore helpless. You haul her off to some apartment where you and perhaps some of your buddies all have a go on her. No force is used for no force is necessary. What would you call that? Was she having a great time but just didn't know it? The rest of your post suggests that you are better than this. I would suggest the following definition for the rape of a female: Carnal knowledge of a female by use of force or threat of force or against her will, consent or knowledge. This too needs work but it is better than defining it as limited to force only
seanomelb | Aug 21, 2012, 06:38 PM EDT
Briano your take on womens rights is rooted in the 19th.century. Most republican women use contraceptives and some have abortions. Let's quit the hypocrisy and the holier than though attitude from the hypocritical GOP.
EphraimKibbey | Aug 21, 2012, 04:31 PM EDT
I just saw that the evangelical right has given its blessing to Akin via Pat Robertson. They feel that he will do well in Missouri. The only good to come from this incident is the revelation of the true GOP agenda as demonstrated by so many here who actually defend Akin's and Ryan's ignorant beliefs.
peterson | Aug 21, 2012, 03:28 PM EDT
The GOP has condemned Aiken for his stupidity. Planned Parenthood has also done stupid things such as offering sex education to pre-teen children and condoms as well.
SingleDonald | Aug 21, 2012, 10:39 AM EDT
eiriamach,
I repeat, rape in never "legitimate", but using force is the only realistic definition of rape. To review your data, I never approved of, nor have I ever given a woman a "date rape" drug, or plied her with alcohol, to achieve intimacy with her. In fact, I feel it is best to drink soda on the first date. When in a bar, I don't believe I have ever bought a girl more than 2 drinks, usually beers. What disturbs me is the feminist culture which castigates all men for having heterosexual desires for women. Women DO look at men, but they seldom leer. With a little effort, we can look tactfully at women; I know I do! Be assured, I deplore those guys on college campuses, who take advantage of their girl class/schoolmates. I feel the "frathouse mentality" is not only offensive to women, but shows what jerks those men can become! A MUTUAL RESPECT between the sexes, is what we all should try to achieve. Finally, I must praise you for your sensible criticism, as I was prepared to defend myself against much worse!
eiriamach | Aug 21, 2012, 10:27 AM EDT
Well said, yourself, TomS, and thanks for the kind words. One of my grandmothers died as a result of a late pregnancy, her sixth. The child survived, to live out a besotted life as an alcoholic, after her elder sisters sacrificed their own freedom to raise and educate the younger ones and care for their incapacitated father. In any family tree, going back just two or more generations, people can find deaths of mothers that coincided with births of their children, or deaths of women during complicated pregnancies. Just examine the death certificates. They obeyed the law and the Church, and many young children lost their mothers. How quickly we forget how dangerous those times were. I cannot understand how any woman or any man who cares about women can vote to return to the lunacy in the "personhood" bill sponsored by Ryan and Aikin.
hollabackgurl | Aug 21, 2012, 10:21 AM EDT
Why are the GOP freaking out over Todd Aiken when Paul Ryan supports exactly the same policies?
hollabackgurl | Aug 21, 2012, 09:48 AM EDT
eiriamach, my compliments. As always, you are the voice of reason, knowledge, intelligence and compassion. Brava! We live in very dangerous times. American women especially live in very dangerous times. I cannot imagine anything more detrimental to the lives and livlihood of women in the U.S. if there is a Republican sweep of White House and Congress in November. It is not too much an exaggeration to say that we will have a religious theocracy running the country. Checks and balance, our vaunted genious for compromise all gone. And for the country at large, a Darwinian nightmare, survival of the fittest, increasing wealth for the few, increasing poverty for the many.
rpbrown | Aug 21, 2012, 03:26 AM EDT
It's interesting to me how much people in America will get upset over an abortion of a fetus (it's not an unborn fetus; there's no such thing as a born fetus) and then they sanction war and the death penalty. It seems to me if you're going to hold the commandment "thou shalt not kill", well, thou shalt not kill!! Ah but it's more convenient to and fun to have a double standard towards women and their sexuality and pretend abortion is some horrible crime. Get a grip. It isn't. It's not a human and it's safe to say if the woman comes to make this hard decision it's probably a good thing that child isn't in this world. And Lord knows there is enough of us here. There's no problem. Millions of us are going to die soon enough due to overcrowding. And to those schmucks, I couldn't give a crap if I was aborted as a baby. I guess I would have just remained in the bliss of God instead of coming onto this planet and listening to righteous morons like you. Leave women alone. If you're not a woman with a baby in your stomach, shut the f•ck up and mind your business.
eiriamach | Aug 21, 2012, 12:30 AM EDT
BrianO, check the statistics since 1973 and earlier. Women do die without legal abortion. Roe vs Wade reduced both maternal mortality rates and infant mortality rates dramatically, and they have been falling steadily ever since the Supreme Court restored the privacy of abortion decisions. If Roe vs Wade is reversed by constitutional amendment or eroded by state laws, those mortality rates will rise again, no doubt about it. The 'war on women' is correctly named; the anti-abortion extremists are using lethal weapons.
eiriamach | Aug 21, 2012, 12:11 AM EDT
SingleDonald, your remark that "Using physical force is the only 'legitimate', meaning realistic definition of rape" is as idiotic, dangerous, and offensive as Aiken's. Apparently you've never heard of date rape drugs or alcohol or incestuous rape of a child who does not know what's happening in time to resist. According to well documented data collected by "Crisis Connection" online, 43% of college men admit using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman’s protest, using physical aggression, and forcing intercourse; 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraint to force a woman to have sex. College rape victims receive external physical injuries in over 47% of all rapes. And 60% of male college students 'indicated some likelihood of raping or using force in certain circumstances.' One in twelve college-age men admit having fulfilled the prevailing definition of rape or attempted rape, yet virtually none of these men identify themselves as rapists." Forty percent of men believe it is acceptable to force sex on women who drink on dates. "Every 21 hours there is another rape on an American college campus, and 90% of all campus rapes occur under the influence of alcohol." "Forcible" or not, rape is never "legitimate," and SingleDonald's position reminds me of the atavistic claim that unless a woman fought so hard that she's dead, murdered by her rapist, she wasn't really raped!
hollabackgurl | Aug 21, 2012, 12:02 AM EDT
You've just confirmed that in your opinion a raped women ought to be forced to carry any resultant pregnancy to term. That's because for today's GOP religious theology surpasses reason. Republicans don't have political convictions now, they have articles of faith.
BrianO | Aug 20, 2012, 10:37 PM EDT
Nice scare tactics though, tell women they are all going to die if the vote republican, a very progressive way to think. What happens if the day after the abortion the woman changes her mind and feels guilty about her abortion like capital punishment there is no going back. But I guess its not a living thing just a life snuffed out early, careful seano this same crowd wants to end life earlier too, you may be on the list.
BrianO | Aug 20, 2012, 10:32 PM EDT
To all the abort at anytimers you were once just a fertilized egg, fetus, developing human, infant, infant born, toddler, child, adolescent, adult, why you are so fervent to deny others the same truly mystifies me.
SingleDonald | Aug 20, 2012, 10:16 PM EDT
I will post again, concerning the disparity that only women can get pregnant. Suppose I go out with a manager at work, professor, doctor, physician's assistant, or psychologist. While we are away from the professional setting, she uses her charms to seduce me, and gets pregnant. Nine months later, she has the baby, and asks me about child support. I would readily agree, as I was seduced, not "raped", by her having someone point a gun at me, to achieve my compliance. If another guy, in the same scenario, refusd to pay child support, the big question would be: Should this guy be compelled to pay? My answer is YES!
That should convince feminists that I feel men should contribute their fair share, where their child is involved. Regardless of the taboos created by the "political correct" crowd, who demonize dating between those people I described, I would not blame the woman, and would readily contribute my fair share!
SingleDonald | Aug 20, 2012, 10:02 PM EDT
Tough subject, but I will weigh in! I do believe most abortions are wrong, and always have. I could possibly see the legitimacy of terminating a pregnancy where the child has Downs Syndrone, or other incurable illness. The procedure should be performed early on, not when the baby is 5/6 months old. That is plain murder; I read how some of these late term abortions are carried out! Concerning rape, Todd Aiken meant forcible rape, when he called it "legitimate rape". Of course, there is nothing "legitimate" about rape, and all us guys should know that. However, some feminists try to equate things such as seduction, sexual harassment, etc. as "rape". That is sheer nonesense; it's time to get real! Using physical force is the only "legitimate", meaning realistic definition of rape. Concerning the unwanted child of a rape, it is indeed a tough call. The poor mother, if she has the baby, will be reminded of the rapist, every time she looks at her son or daughter. On the other hand, why abort a perfectly healthy baby? Punish the rapist, not the child sounds good to me! Maybe an adoption agency could take the unwanted baby, and give him/her a good home. I wish Todd Aiken the best in his congressional race against Claire McCaskill! BTW, you can look this up: Neither Susan B. Anthony nor Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) were in favor of abortion!
alisaann | Aug 20, 2012, 08:41 PM EDT
is this really the type of people you WANT running the country?.....GOD, I HOPE NOT....the GOP has NO RESPECT FOR WOMEN...and they want to take away programs to HELP the people...and TAKE AWAY RIGHTS that people should have.
WAKE UP BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE PEOPLE.
ALISA
EphraimKibbey | Aug 20, 2012, 08:26 PM EDT
Where does the GOP FIND these blithering idiots? This guy got 36% of the vote in an 8 person primary in Missouri. Maybe a run off election would have been in order. You think? The important thing to get out of this incident, according to Sandra Fluke today on MSNBC, was that this is not one lone lunatic but the voting RECORD of the GOP since they took control of the US House (over 30 anti abortion bills while America goes jobless) and numerous state governments. She said that she would remember them at the poles in November and hoped that every woman and every man that ever loved a woman would do the same.
eiriamach | Aug 20, 2012, 07:03 PM EDT
Turning watches back 200 years would just narrowly save women's bodies from government takeover, seanomelb, if we could stop the clock there. The first anti-abortion laws appeared in the USA in the 1820s, when the then-all-male, school-trained, licensed, organized MD's needed to run the female midwives out of their new practice of obstetrics. They could not outlaw the midwives' help in at-home births, but they could and did criminalize the abortions they performed to save the lives or health of pregnant women.
seanomelb | Aug 20, 2012, 06:39 PM EDT
A person at conception!! how extremist some people are. Women of America take heed if Romney wins the teabaggers will own you BODY and soul.If Romney wins you can turn back your watches 200 years.
jamthecat | Aug 20, 2012, 06:29 PM EDT
So let me see if I've got this right -- The government can't do anything right and should be made smaller, but he government is better equipped to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body, even after she's been raped. And people take fools like Ryan and Aiken seriously. Oh, man...this country is collapsing like Rome did, thanks to the ignorant idiots we keep putting in office...90% of which are Republicans.
hollabackgurl | Aug 20, 2012, 04:03 PM EDT
'...tough situation all around...' writes BrianO. But it's actually a tough situation for the woman who has been raped. It seems cruel to me that she should be forced to carry the child of a rapist to term. It doesn't seem cruel to Todd Aiken or his co-sponsor Paul Ryan. I imagine to them women should be glad they don't have to marry their rapists as the Old Testament commands.
Tom Mo | Aug 20, 2012, 03:34 PM EDT
Looks like Todd Akin had a Joe Biden and should pull out......... of the race, that is.
BrianO | Aug 20, 2012, 03:00 PM EDT
Touchy subject, My only comment not being a woman, or a rapist, is that if conception occurs their is an innocent life that has no voice or chance to defend itself, tough situation all around.
BulldogMania | Aug 20, 2012, 02:17 PM EDT
There is no evidence to support his statement. It was stupid and offensive. Politically it was a VERY stupid thing to say. It sounds like something Biden would say...the clown of clowns in Washington these days. He says stupid stuff like this all the time, but enjoys the shield placed around his mouth by the liberal media.
Stiofain | Aug 20, 2012, 01:36 PM EDT
This whats when America does away with sex education.
eiriamach | Aug 20, 2012, 01:14 PM EDT
Pregnancy resulting from rape and incest is far from "rare." According to a 1996 national 3-year study, the pregnancy rate was 5.0% per rape of females aged 12 to 45, about 32,101 each year (as Pilib04 mentioned). Most pregnancies occur in children, pre-teens and adolescents who are not on birth control and who often do not realize they are pregnant until the third trimester (32.4%). Close to half of them receive no medical care during pregnancy. The study concludes, "Rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency. It is a cause of many unwanted pregnancies and is closely linked with family and domestic violence. As we address the epidemic of unintended pregnancies in the US, greater attention and effort should be aimed at preventing and identifying unwanted pregnancies that result from sexual victimization." Those who think like Mickey74007, that women should bear the costs of abortion, should try telling that to a pregnant 12-year-old rape victim. These stats are from "Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women," Holmes, Resnick, Kilpatrick, Best; abstract is on line.) Ironically, Aiken would commit child abuse if he tried to disallow abortion for rape victims.
Scrivner | Aug 20, 2012, 01:09 PM EDT
Abortions have to be performed much too soon, how about allowing about 18 years post partum? That way a parent has a better feel for how the child will turnout and whether they will be a credit to soiety. If that was the case, Hollabackgurl might try thinking instead of spewing forth venom all the time.
hollabackgurl | Aug 20, 2012, 11:30 AM EDT
If Romney- Ryan are in charge women who have been raped will have to ask themselves how legitimate their rape was. Romney has openly stated he plans to de-fund Planned Parenthood. And Ryan is so far to the right that he has co-authored anti-abortion bills with Aiken.
hollabackgurl | Aug 20, 2012, 10:25 AM EDT
pilib04 - please don't bother Republicans with facts. They're busy making their own reality.
Eamonn - if you don't have any facts on your side, be sure to scream LIBERAL!!
EamonnDublin | Aug 20, 2012, 10:22 AM EDT
I see the Lunatic O'Doherty has been uncaged again. What a Gobshite! Éamonn, Dublin.
pilib04 | Aug 20, 2012, 10:21 AM EDT
Mr. Akin is currently a member of the U.S. Congress. He says few women raped get pregnant. That "few" in the United States represents 32,000 women who get pregnant from RAPE. Akin was the Mike Huckabee candidate in the GOP primary in Missouri. He currently leads Senator Clair McCaskill by 9% in the August 9 Survey-USA poll.
micky74007 | Aug 20, 2012, 10:21 AM EDT
I think the government should get out of a women's body. But I also think the tax payer should not have to carry the burden of paying for abortion. Let the person involve make the decision for herself. Clinics should be financed thru the private sector, not government.
The concept should be clear--no government intervention in a woman's reproductive decisions, and no government funding of abortion clinics.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.eiriamach | Aug 28, 2012, 10:24 AM EDT
Earlier this year, the US Dept of Justice gave the FBI a definition of 'rape' that included male victims as well as female and violation of the will of the victim, whether by violence or 'force' or other means. Akin's description of 'legitimate' meaning 'forcible' is an assault on the integrity of rape victims, young and not-young, female and male. But the national discussion of rape reached its most odious point with Paul Ryan's comment that rape is a "method of conception," i.e., a natural event, subject to his Church teaching that every human conception must be nurtured and protected until birth! Ryan and his priests and bishops need to learn that rape is not sex; rape is not 'natural'; rape that leads to conception is a tragedy compounded; rape is a heinous crime against real human victims. And to coerce a victim into continuing a pregnancy-by-rape is an unnatural violation of human rights.
seanomelb | Aug 26, 2012, 12:07 AM EDT
You're getting ahead of yourself Pittsburgh me boy or "there's none so blind-----
Pittsburghkid | Aug 25, 2012, 03:24 PM EDT
The War on Woman has been cancelled by the Democrats for lack of interest.
seanomelb | Aug 24, 2012, 11:40 PM EDT
Climb down from your ignorant high horse GoSox. I suppose Limbaugh and co.are your source of radical right wing drivvel.
miamicanes | Aug 23, 2012, 01:44 PM EDT
How can someone that old have that kind of thinking? Is that representative of the older folks there. No, before he apologizes he needs therapy. To say what he's said is akin to sexual harassment. Good grief, this is 2012, at least I think it is. And I am serious about the therapy.
GoSox | Aug 23, 2012, 10:51 AM EDT
TomSwinford, thanks for the comments. I'm glad to see your using the MSNBC talking points and believe eveything you hear from the current admin. Also, sorry to see that you have an anti-Isreal leaning position. I would gladly match my background and education against your in the formation of my concerns. Oddly, I didn't see you mention anything about the economy. Oh, I already know your answer . . . the economy would be much worse "but for Obama's intervention." I feel some degree of sadness for people of your intellect, in that you know better than everyone else. When you feel to see all sides of an issue and tend to rely on the only economic plan that has proven to fail time and time again. Oh well . . .
GoSox | Aug 22, 2012, 09:20 PM EDT
GoSox, so you're worried about a nuclear Iran and the expansion of the Chinese Navy. I feel for you lad. But let me enlighten you a tad since it seems your tv is stuck on FoxNews. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, Martin Dempsey, has said that he considers the Iranian leadership "a rational actor," meaning that Iran will do nothing, but nothing to cause its own national suicide - which is precisely what would happen if Iran were insane enough to launch a nuclear missle on nuclear Israel. On the other hand, Israel's not-so-rational prime minister, Netanyahu, is itching to launch a pre-emptive strike against Iran and wants a U.S. guarantee of support in this lunatic action. Obama is wisely resisting. As for China's navy, were it necessary for the U.S. to attack it tomorrow, we could effectively destroy it entirely after breakfast and be home in time for lunch. Former Secretary of Defence, Bob Gates (a Republican) laughed out loud when he was asked if the Chinese Navy was a threat to the U.S. For example, we currently have 11 carrier groups, one more under construction and two more planned. China has zero carriers - after many years they're still trying to launch their first carrier, built on the hull of an old Soviet warship. The U.S. Navy is larger than the next 13 largest navies combined. Now, lad, why don't you go back to FoxNews and continue to wallow in Dumbville.
ciaradexy | Aug 22, 2012, 06:55 PM EDT
And I thought Irish politicians were stupid!? Seems yours are much worse America!
BrianO | Aug 22, 2012, 05:10 PM EDT
according to completely made up facts, no aborted babies are female.
eiriamach | Aug 22, 2012, 01:46 PM EDT
@Mousemess, you say, "I believe strongly this way regardless of my status as a faithful attendant of weekly Sunday church services." I don't see any dilemma. You wrote elsewhere on IC that you're an Episcopalian. Although ECUSA dislikes abortion in general (doesn't everyone?), its position is not monolithic, nor dogmatic, nor irrational. Episcopalians are open to the light that science can shed on concepts like "person," and, unlike RC, it does not oppose abortion to save a woman's life. For Episcopalians an informed conscience is autonomous, not enslaved to centuries-old dogma. To me, the wisdom of ECUSA lies in its resiliency, its willingness to rethink tradition in light of the Gospel received ever anew. To be able to correct the errors of the past rather than defending dysfunctional, anti-scientific doctrines and traditions is a special grace that appeals to the young and to people like me, who are appalled by the un-Christ-like, misogynist politics of some other groups that mislabel themselves "Christian."
GoSox | Aug 22, 2012, 01:30 PM EDT
Interesting Take . . . however, I am more concerned about the economy, finding jobs, the expansion of the Chinese Navy in the pacific and a Nuclear Iran. The current administration has proven it is inept at handling any of these issues. So, I think we need to put this one issue into proper context. The future of a country is at stake and all some people want to talk about are social issues that are no more going to change from what they are than is the color of the sky. lets get to the real issues and stop distracting from what is important to the future of my children!!!
hollabackgurl | Aug 22, 2012, 11:06 AM EDT
Paul Ryan and Todd Akin cosponsored a “personhood” bill that would not only prohibit rape survivors from seeking an abortion, but would likely treat terminating a pregnancy that results from rape as a homicide crime. Similarly, Ryan and Akin partnered on a bill seeking to prevent Medicaid recipients who are raped from obtaining an abortion unless they are victims of “forcible rape.”
eiriamach | Aug 22, 2012, 10:49 AM EDT
TomS, that's an incredible story of courage and love. Thanks for giving us that glimpse into family life in the west of Ireland. ~~~~~~~ A plank in the GOP platform adopted Monday opposes all abortion unconditionally, with no exceptions to save the lives or health of pregnant women, no exception for rape or incest or fatal fetal anomalies, no exception for child victims of rape, no role for information from medical science....
BrianO | Aug 22, 2012, 10:03 AM EDT
Hollaback, one step at a time, tough to face a death sentences when still in the womb. Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
Mousemess | Aug 22, 2012, 07:57 AM EDT
Paul Ryan makes ONE exception to his abortion belief...abortion IF the mother's life is in danger. Other than that, as a male myself, it's gets on my very last nerve THAT MALES like Paul Ryan(who will never have to experience pregnancy in their own bodies) are trying to make laws against women's health issues even like preventing the availability of abortion in the case of rape and incest. And I believe strongly this way regardless of my status as a faithful attendant of weekly Sunday church services.
hollabackgurl | Aug 22, 2012, 01:25 AM EDT
It's once your born that Republicans think protecting life is no longer sacred.
BrianO | Aug 21, 2012, 11:05 PM EDT
The abortionist have the legality to perform their procedures, they are very robotic in the snuffing out of life, there are always scenarios that justify outcomes. I believe it is not as simple as anyone makes it out to be. The women who have a conscience and abort deal with emotions that rarely are discussed. In the end I wish the unborn the chance to be born. I do not think this will be accomplished by changing law but by changing attitudes toward the importance of life.
BrianO | Aug 21, 2012, 10:58 PM EDT
eiriamach, I can easily relate to your story. It is much like my own. I was born and raised on a small farm in the west of Ireland - in the middle of seven sisters - and two older brothers. In between there were miscarriages and a still-born that almost took my mother's life. My mother worked in the fields with all of us and I learned about equality at an early age. My sisters' sweat smelled the same as mine and they worked just as hard - and I took my turn doing housework. We were mostly born in January and February - as we were conceived in the spring when my father would return from England for a few weeks to do what one local reporter wrote "... to fertilize their lands and their women." It was a hard, unforgiving life and my mother would tell me many years later how she dreaded the return of the man she truly loved for it would mean another baby. As children our greatest terror was that she would die and leave us alone in the world. Death was not uncommon around us, child-bearing women with large families, broken in health and in spirit just gave up. I often saw the despair in my mother's face and it haunted me. When I see the GOP and the church I was born into moralize about abortion and contraception I am enraged.
BrianO | Aug 21, 2012, 07:08 PM EDT
SingleDonald, "...using force is the only realistic definition of rape." Come now, surely you can do better than that. Say you meet a woman in a bar and use a so-called date rape drug to render her unconscious or semi-conscious and therefore helpless. You haul her off to some apartment where you and perhaps some of your buddies all have a go on her. No force is used for no force is necessary. What would you call that? Was she having a great time but just didn't know it? The rest of your post suggests that you are better than this. I would suggest the following definition for the rape of a female: Carnal knowledge of a female by use of force or threat of force or against her will, consent or knowledge. This too needs work but it is better than defining it as limited to force only
seanomelb | Aug 21, 2012, 06:38 PM EDT
Briano your take on womens rights is rooted in the 19th.century. Most republican women use contraceptives and some have abortions. Let's quit the hypocrisy and the holier than though attitude from the hypocritical GOP.
EphraimKibbey | Aug 21, 2012, 04:31 PM EDT
I just saw that the evangelical right has given its blessing to Akin via Pat Robertson. They feel that he will do well in Missouri. The only good to come from this incident is the revelation of the true GOP agenda as demonstrated by so many here who actually defend Akin's and Ryan's ignorant beliefs.
peterson | Aug 21, 2012, 03:28 PM EDT
The GOP has condemned Aiken for his stupidity. Planned Parenthood has also done stupid things such as offering sex education to pre-teen children and condoms as well.
SingleDonald | Aug 21, 2012, 10:39 AM EDT
eiriamach, I repeat, rape in never "legitimate", but using force is the only realistic definition of rape. To review your data, I never approved of, nor have I ever given a woman a "date rape" drug, or plied her with alcohol, to achieve intimacy with her. In fact, I feel it is best to drink soda on the first date. When in a bar, I don't believe I have ever bought a girl more than 2 drinks, usually beers. What disturbs me is the feminist culture which castigates all men for having heterosexual desires for women. Women DO look at men, but they seldom leer. With a little effort, we can look tactfully at women; I know I do! Be assured, I deplore those guys on college campuses, who take advantage of their girl class/schoolmates. I feel the "frathouse mentality" is not only offensive to women, but shows what jerks those men can become! A MUTUAL RESPECT between the sexes, is what we all should try to achieve. Finally, I must praise you for your sensible criticism, as I was prepared to defend myself against much worse!
eiriamach | Aug 21, 2012, 10:27 AM EDT
Well said, yourself, TomS, and thanks for the kind words. One of my grandmothers died as a result of a late pregnancy, her sixth. The child survived, to live out a besotted life as an alcoholic, after her elder sisters sacrificed their own freedom to raise and educate the younger ones and care for their incapacitated father. In any family tree, going back just two or more generations, people can find deaths of mothers that coincided with births of their children, or deaths of women during complicated pregnancies. Just examine the death certificates. They obeyed the law and the Church, and many young children lost their mothers. How quickly we forget how dangerous those times were. I cannot understand how any woman or any man who cares about women can vote to return to the lunacy in the "personhood" bill sponsored by Ryan and Aikin.
hollabackgurl | Aug 21, 2012, 10:21 AM EDT
Why are the GOP freaking out over Todd Aiken when Paul Ryan supports exactly the same policies?
hollabackgurl | Aug 21, 2012, 09:48 AM EDT
eiriamach, my compliments. As always, you are the voice of reason, knowledge, intelligence and compassion. Brava! We live in very dangerous times. American women especially live in very dangerous times. I cannot imagine anything more detrimental to the lives and livlihood of women in the U.S. if there is a Republican sweep of White House and Congress in November. It is not too much an exaggeration to say that we will have a religious theocracy running the country. Checks and balance, our vaunted genious for compromise all gone. And for the country at large, a Darwinian nightmare, survival of the fittest, increasing wealth for the few, increasing poverty for the many.
rpbrown | Aug 21, 2012, 03:26 AM EDT
It's interesting to me how much people in America will get upset over an abortion of a fetus (it's not an unborn fetus; there's no such thing as a born fetus) and then they sanction war and the death penalty. It seems to me if you're going to hold the commandment "thou shalt not kill", well, thou shalt not kill!! Ah but it's more convenient to and fun to have a double standard towards women and their sexuality and pretend abortion is some horrible crime. Get a grip. It isn't. It's not a human and it's safe to say if the woman comes to make this hard decision it's probably a good thing that child isn't in this world. And Lord knows there is enough of us here. There's no problem. Millions of us are going to die soon enough due to overcrowding. And to those schmucks, I couldn't give a crap if I was aborted as a baby. I guess I would have just remained in the bliss of God instead of coming onto this planet and listening to righteous morons like you. Leave women alone. If you're not a woman with a baby in your stomach, shut the f•ck up and mind your business.
eiriamach | Aug 21, 2012, 12:30 AM EDT
BrianO, check the statistics since 1973 and earlier. Women do die without legal abortion. Roe vs Wade reduced both maternal mortality rates and infant mortality rates dramatically, and they have been falling steadily ever since the Supreme Court restored the privacy of abortion decisions. If Roe vs Wade is reversed by constitutional amendment or eroded by state laws, those mortality rates will rise again, no doubt about it. The 'war on women' is correctly named; the anti-abortion extremists are using lethal weapons.
eiriamach | Aug 21, 2012, 12:11 AM EDT
SingleDonald, your remark that "Using physical force is the only 'legitimate', meaning realistic definition of rape" is as idiotic, dangerous, and offensive as Aiken's. Apparently you've never heard of date rape drugs or alcohol or incestuous rape of a child who does not know what's happening in time to resist. According to well documented data collected by "Crisis Connection" online, 43% of college men admit using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman’s protest, using physical aggression, and forcing intercourse; 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraint to force a woman to have sex. College rape victims receive external physical injuries in over 47% of all rapes. And 60% of male college students 'indicated some likelihood of raping or using force in certain circumstances.' One in twelve college-age men admit having fulfilled the prevailing definition of rape or attempted rape, yet virtually none of these men identify themselves as rapists." Forty percent of men believe it is acceptable to force sex on women who drink on dates. "Every 21 hours there is another rape on an American college campus, and 90% of all campus rapes occur under the influence of alcohol." "Forcible" or not, rape is never "legitimate," and SingleDonald's position reminds me of the atavistic claim that unless a woman fought so hard that she's dead, murdered by her rapist, she wasn't really raped!
hollabackgurl | Aug 21, 2012, 12:02 AM EDT
You've just confirmed that in your opinion a raped women ought to be forced to carry any resultant pregnancy to term. That's because for today's GOP religious theology surpasses reason. Republicans don't have political convictions now, they have articles of faith.
BrianO | Aug 20, 2012, 10:37 PM EDT
Nice scare tactics though, tell women they are all going to die if the vote republican, a very progressive way to think. What happens if the day after the abortion the woman changes her mind and feels guilty about her abortion like capital punishment there is no going back. But I guess its not a living thing just a life snuffed out early, careful seano this same crowd wants to end life earlier too, you may be on the list.
BrianO | Aug 20, 2012, 10:32 PM EDT
To all the abort at anytimers you were once just a fertilized egg, fetus, developing human, infant, infant born, toddler, child, adolescent, adult, why you are so fervent to deny others the same truly mystifies me.
SingleDonald | Aug 20, 2012, 10:16 PM EDT
I will post again, concerning the disparity that only women can get pregnant. Suppose I go out with a manager at work, professor, doctor, physician's assistant, or psychologist. While we are away from the professional setting, she uses her charms to seduce me, and gets pregnant. Nine months later, she has the baby, and asks me about child support. I would readily agree, as I was seduced, not "raped", by her having someone point a gun at me, to achieve my compliance. If another guy, in the same scenario, refusd to pay child support, the big question would be: Should this guy be compelled to pay? My answer is YES! That should convince feminists that I feel men should contribute their fair share, where their child is involved. Regardless of the taboos created by the "political correct" crowd, who demonize dating between those people I described, I would not blame the woman, and would readily contribute my fair share!
SingleDonald | Aug 20, 2012, 10:02 PM EDT
Tough subject, but I will weigh in! I do believe most abortions are wrong, and always have. I could possibly see the legitimacy of terminating a pregnancy where the child has Downs Syndrone, or other incurable illness. The procedure should be performed early on, not when the baby is 5/6 months old. That is plain murder; I read how some of these late term abortions are carried out! Concerning rape, Todd Aiken meant forcible rape, when he called it "legitimate rape". Of course, there is nothing "legitimate" about rape, and all us guys should know that. However, some feminists try to equate things such as seduction, sexual harassment, etc. as "rape". That is sheer nonesense; it's time to get real! Using physical force is the only "legitimate", meaning realistic definition of rape. Concerning the unwanted child of a rape, it is indeed a tough call. The poor mother, if she has the baby, will be reminded of the rapist, every time she looks at her son or daughter. On the other hand, why abort a perfectly healthy baby? Punish the rapist, not the child sounds good to me! Maybe an adoption agency could take the unwanted baby, and give him/her a good home. I wish Todd Aiken the best in his congressional race against Claire McCaskill! BTW, you can look this up: Neither Susan B. Anthony nor Margaret Sanger (founder of Planned Parenthood) were in favor of abortion!
alisaann | Aug 20, 2012, 08:41 PM EDT
is this really the type of people you WANT running the country?.....GOD, I HOPE NOT....the GOP has NO RESPECT FOR WOMEN...and they want to take away programs to HELP the people...and TAKE AWAY RIGHTS that people should have. WAKE UP BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE PEOPLE. ALISA
EphraimKibbey | Aug 20, 2012, 08:26 PM EDT
Where does the GOP FIND these blithering idiots? This guy got 36% of the vote in an 8 person primary in Missouri. Maybe a run off election would have been in order. You think? The important thing to get out of this incident, according to Sandra Fluke today on MSNBC, was that this is not one lone lunatic but the voting RECORD of the GOP since they took control of the US House (over 30 anti abortion bills while America goes jobless) and numerous state governments. She said that she would remember them at the poles in November and hoped that every woman and every man that ever loved a woman would do the same.
eiriamach | Aug 20, 2012, 07:03 PM EDT
Turning watches back 200 years would just narrowly save women's bodies from government takeover, seanomelb, if we could stop the clock there. The first anti-abortion laws appeared in the USA in the 1820s, when the then-all-male, school-trained, licensed, organized MD's needed to run the female midwives out of their new practice of obstetrics. They could not outlaw the midwives' help in at-home births, but they could and did criminalize the abortions they performed to save the lives or health of pregnant women.
seanomelb | Aug 20, 2012, 06:39 PM EDT
A person at conception!! how extremist some people are. Women of America take heed if Romney wins the teabaggers will own you BODY and soul.If Romney wins you can turn back your watches 200 years.
jamthecat | Aug 20, 2012, 06:29 PM EDT
So let me see if I've got this right -- The government can't do anything right and should be made smaller, but he government is better equipped to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her body, even after she's been raped. And people take fools like Ryan and Aiken seriously. Oh, man...this country is collapsing like Rome did, thanks to the ignorant idiots we keep putting in office...90% of which are Republicans.
hollabackgurl | Aug 20, 2012, 04:03 PM EDT
'...tough situation all around...' writes BrianO. But it's actually a tough situation for the woman who has been raped. It seems cruel to me that she should be forced to carry the child of a rapist to term. It doesn't seem cruel to Todd Aiken or his co-sponsor Paul Ryan. I imagine to them women should be glad they don't have to marry their rapists as the Old Testament commands.
Tom Mo | Aug 20, 2012, 03:34 PM EDT
Looks like Todd Akin had a Joe Biden and should pull out......... of the race, that is.
BrianO | Aug 20, 2012, 03:00 PM EDT
Touchy subject, My only comment not being a woman, or a rapist, is that if conception occurs their is an innocent life that has no voice or chance to defend itself, tough situation all around.
BulldogMania | Aug 20, 2012, 02:17 PM EDT
There is no evidence to support his statement. It was stupid and offensive. Politically it was a VERY stupid thing to say. It sounds like something Biden would say...the clown of clowns in Washington these days. He says stupid stuff like this all the time, but enjoys the shield placed around his mouth by the liberal media.
Stiofain | Aug 20, 2012, 01:36 PM EDT
This whats when America does away with sex education.
eiriamach | Aug 20, 2012, 01:14 PM EDT
Pregnancy resulting from rape and incest is far from "rare." According to a 1996 national 3-year study, the pregnancy rate was 5.0% per rape of females aged 12 to 45, about 32,101 each year (as Pilib04 mentioned). Most pregnancies occur in children, pre-teens and adolescents who are not on birth control and who often do not realize they are pregnant until the third trimester (32.4%). Close to half of them receive no medical care during pregnancy. The study concludes, "Rape-related pregnancy occurs with significant frequency. It is a cause of many unwanted pregnancies and is closely linked with family and domestic violence. As we address the epidemic of unintended pregnancies in the US, greater attention and effort should be aimed at preventing and identifying unwanted pregnancies that result from sexual victimization." Those who think like Mickey74007, that women should bear the costs of abortion, should try telling that to a pregnant 12-year-old rape victim. These stats are from "Rape-related pregnancy: estimates and descriptive characteristics from a national sample of women," Holmes, Resnick, Kilpatrick, Best; abstract is on line.) Ironically, Aiken would commit child abuse if he tried to disallow abortion for rape victims.
Scrivner | Aug 20, 2012, 01:09 PM EDT
Abortions have to be performed much too soon, how about allowing about 18 years post partum? That way a parent has a better feel for how the child will turnout and whether they will be a credit to soiety. If that was the case, Hollabackgurl might try thinking instead of spewing forth venom all the time.
hollabackgurl | Aug 20, 2012, 11:30 AM EDT
If Romney- Ryan are in charge women who have been raped will have to ask themselves how legitimate their rape was. Romney has openly stated he plans to de-fund Planned Parenthood. And Ryan is so far to the right that he has co-authored anti-abortion bills with Aiken.
hollabackgurl | Aug 20, 2012, 10:25 AM EDT
pilib04 - please don't bother Republicans with facts. They're busy making their own reality. Eamonn - if you don't have any facts on your side, be sure to scream LIBERAL!!
EamonnDublin | Aug 20, 2012, 10:22 AM EDT
I see the Lunatic O'Doherty has been uncaged again. What a Gobshite! Éamonn, Dublin.
pilib04 | Aug 20, 2012, 10:21 AM EDT
Mr. Akin is currently a member of the U.S. Congress. He says few women raped get pregnant. That "few" in the United States represents 32,000 women who get pregnant from RAPE. Akin was the Mike Huckabee candidate in the GOP primary in Missouri. He currently leads Senator Clair McCaskill by 9% in the August 9 Survey-USA poll.
micky74007 | Aug 20, 2012, 10:21 AM EDT
I think the government should get out of a women's body. But I also think the tax payer should not have to carry the burden of paying for abortion. Let the person involve make the decision for herself. Clinics should be financed thru the private sector, not government. The concept should be clear--no government intervention in a woman's reproductive decisions, and no government funding of abortion clinics.