56 Comments

• KMcSinger | Jan 22, 2011, 06:27 PM EST

  Spot on! Nicely written.

• KLennox | Jan 14, 2011, 07:22 PM EST

  Absolutely dead f*(^&*(ing right. Thank you.

• maloney | Jan 12, 2011, 09:12 PM EST

  freeinchrist..you got it right about church vs government. It's for the people to take care of their own, not the govt. to abuse the hard earned monies for their own folly. This article is nothing more than look at this hand so you won't see the reason for the AZ. shootings was because of a liberal political correct sheriff & liberal political correct college who both failed to do their jobs when confronted with a nutjob liberal lunatic who had made several death threats over time. Obama will want to give the nut a medal since Gabby was pro gun & anti amnesty. He has coached the media & democrap party well so far.

• freeinchrist | Jan 12, 2011, 08:15 PM EST

  Quoting Stepen Colbert really??????? This is the same man who made a joke of the Democratic congress this past term! When did he become a spiritual leader of any kind????

• freeinchrist | Jan 12, 2011, 08:07 PM EST

  We are called as THE CHURCH to take care of the poor, the widows, and the orphans. The Bible never tells us to give the governments of men our tithes and offerings for missions works. To expect the government composed of largely un-Christian people to do the work of the Church is folly!

• olovely | Jan 12, 2011, 04:29 PM EST

  Can you imagine Jesus saying to the sick and the afflicted that asking for help is selfish socialism and will destroy America?

• Searlit | Jan 12, 2011, 03:04 PM EST

  I can agree with some of what you're saying Monsoonman and 2BorNot2B.

• maloney | Jan 12, 2011, 01:01 PM EST

  obamacare is just one more effort in his plan of controlling the country. Make all dependent on the govt. The liberals see their gains slipping away & are becoming more desperate each day. Big govt. will be the downfall of America if permitted to grow. The people are waking & the socialists are going crazy at their losses.

• hancock | Jan 12, 2011, 11:02 AM EST

  From Rich Canadians, Arabs, and Europeans.

• JOHNTOBIN | Jan 12, 2011, 07:18 AM EST

  Where on earth does wordenjohn4 get the idea that the rest of the world considers the USA health system the best in the world?

• 2BorNot2B | Jan 11, 2011, 09:49 PM EST

  Sez Cranleigh" ".. I can't imagine Jesus and the Apostles who allegedly held all things in common being too impressed" --- Another convenient and erroneous attempt at biblical verse-slinging and exegesis. -- The bible never claims ANYWHERE that Jesus held anything in common with His apostles. Jesus in fact depended very much on the generosity of His rich friends (like Lazarus and his sisters Mary and Martha, as well as on the wife of the head stewart of Herod, a man by the name of Chuza), to carry on His ministry.--- The phrase 'and they held all things in common' does not appear until the Book of Acts, referring to the early Christians in Rome, who did this because they were expecting the imminent end of the world and the return of Christ... not because they were being forced to bankroll the lazy and indolent.

• 2BorNot2B | Jan 11, 2011, 09:27 PM EST

  ---"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." Jesus.---Oh how will the skeptics will suddenly quote bible verses when convenient. --- Jesus was not saying 'the rich cannot go to heaven... He was saying 'those who make wealth their idol and their ultimate goal.' --- There are many more rich people who are generous than the poor could possibly be, since logically, the poor are limited on how much they can give others.

• Monsoonman | Jan 11, 2011, 06:47 PM EST

  Several reasons why the "healthcare system in the US is expensive and it would be easy to make it much more affordable. Stop the nanny state mandates imposed on insurance co.'s, making it mandatory to cover such things as sex change operations. Let insurance companies compete from around the world for business, don't confine them to within individual states borders. Get lawyers out of the healtcare system totally. Only healthcare for US citizens. Let other countries set up healthcare centers in the U.S. Use much more hi tech care and technicians to deal with primary care, ie: cell phones will be the next diagnostic tool for healthcare. You can submit a blood, or something else sample via your cell phone to a diagnostic center thousands of miless away and you can be diagnosed...There is much much more, but IC doesn't like to give anyone a platform to thoroughly explain concepts. But one thing for sure the corrupt govt. special interests getting in the middle of it will only make the situation worse.

• Cranleigh | Jan 11, 2011, 05:01 PM EST

  One basic problem with for-profit healthcare is the unusual nature of the services being sold. The buyer knows next to nothing about the product and may only get one chance to make the right choice. It's easy to exploit patients' fears. Don't get me wrong, USnA is a still a great place to get a procedure done - but just make sure you really need it first.

• Monsoonman | Jan 11, 2011, 04:40 PM EST

  It's situational religion Hancock, only when it's convenient for them.

• hancock | Jan 11, 2011, 02:04 PM EST

  A lot of Jesus followers all of a sudden.

• hollabackgurl | Jan 11, 2011, 12:57 PM EST

  You can froth all you like, but you're not following Christ's teachings and you know it.

• Cranleigh | Jan 11, 2011, 12:39 PM EST

  Seamusmoore, I can give you a much more current example than poor old smoked salmion socialist Pierre. Our multimillionaire Premier Danny Williams went to Florida to have a cardiac valve done last year with the retort 'my heart, my health, my choice'. The rich will always have fancy clinics to go to overseas in London, Zurich or coastal America, irrespective of the general health care system for the proles in these countries and good luck to them. Every country is struggling to keep its system going, including yours. Sure, aren't fairly humble Americans now going to Mexico and India to have their hips done? Ajreaper, private health care in America is suffocating in bureaucracy. And I can tell you that care for the chronically ill, as opposed to acute surgical procedures, is nothing to write home about down there. One of my relatives lived his last years in the US and I wasn't too impressed at the constant fight we had for basic care. The doctors ran scared from speaking to me as much as they could even though I caused them no trouble. It was very diappointing. Even in the UK, care for the elderly is more integrated. Rudy Giuliani did nobody any good with his foolish talk about cancer survival rates in the UK and US that were unadjusted for stage. When you're giving half the geezers in the country a PSA every five minutes it's no wonder some of them do well - about as well as they would have done without a debilitating diagnosis of cancer.

• Monsoonman | Jan 11, 2011, 12:02 PM EST

  I read you bleeding hearts saying that Americans aren't compassionate in their giving. Yet it would be interesting to see how much of your own funds you give? It has been a study in hypocrisy to see the leading liberals tax returns, before they were in the main public spotlight) (biden, obama, kerry, etc.). They champion giving other peoples money away, yet they are miserly when it comes to their wn assets going to charitable causes. FACT

• hollabackgurl | Jan 11, 2011, 11:49 AM EST

  Jesus' message was let the poor and the ill and the weak fend for themselves. He wanted us to make money and keep it. He wanted us to ignore the suffering of others and concentrate on our own contentment.

• Ajreaper | Jan 11, 2011, 11:11 AM EST

  The problem lies in the fact that any national government and the huge bureaucracy they create seldom is able to do things as well as the private sector- why? The private sector pays attention to the bottom line, streamlines operations in order to maximize profits- governments spend and spend with little true oversite. In the U.S. social programs, well meaning as they are, are also rife with abuses that cost tax payers billions- national health care will be more of the same. In some cases social programs only act to enable the lazy who are perfectly willing to feed off of society- this country was built on folks who endured hardships and pulled themselves up by their boot straps- there's very little of that these days and alot of entitlement. Sorry but the track record says what goverment does it generally does very average to poor at least at the national level.

• hancock | Jan 11, 2011, 10:49 AM EST

  Get on a plane all you Irish whiners.

• eiriamach | Jan 11, 2011, 10:26 AM EST

  Very well said, odonnell521. I agree completely. Most of the world remembers the horrific photos of Katrina hurricane victims in the Southern US and the length of time it took to bring any aid to the survivors. The US has not done well in taking care of the most vulnerable among us, not to mention the rest of the world.

• wordenjohn4 | Jan 11, 2011, 09:21 AM EST

  Sad. It's not the health care bill nor the 'we don't care' attitude(which doesn't exist). Most Americans are smart enough to know that having the government take over anything usually ends up with things being worse than before they entered the picture. Americans are, and have been, the most giving people in the entire world. Look it up before putting your foot in your mouth. And anyone who would take the time to look at this latest attempt to give health care to everyone would soon see that it falls woefully short. Let us also remember when medicare and mediaid were introduced by our government we were told that everyone would now have access to health care. Add to that the fact that our representatives in Congress are so enthused with what this bill would do for all Americans that they opted out of it. No thanks. Lets do it right or not at all. The rest of the world still considers our health care as the best in the world. Listen to them!

• odonnell521 | Jan 11, 2011, 06:32 AM EST

  From the comments so far, it looks like there are plenty of people who subscribe to the "I've got mine, now screw you" approach to life so popular with the right. And believing that Americans are the most generous in the world when it comes to donations to charity and foreign aid to developing countries is a fallacy that many of them keep repeating to maintain a clear conscience (and an empty mind).

• JOHNTOBIN | Jan 11, 2011, 05:50 AM EST

  It never ceases to amaze me the unbridled fear that many Americans have for any program that even faintly resembles public health care.They would rather allow wealthy insurance companies to wrangle thousands of dollars off citizens for health cover.I believe roughly 40,000 people die annually in America because of lack of sufficent health insurance cover.Another reason for this frame of mind is that many Americans have very little knowledge of the outside world and how social security programs operate in other countries.

• UBREADER | Jan 11, 2011, 01:30 AM EST

  This author is confused. He thinks it is more blessed to forcibly take from you neighbor and spread it around rather than voluntarity giving as an individual. The socialists in America give much less as individuals than the capitalists give as individuals. Take Obama as an example. Before he ran for President, he gave very little voluntarily as an individual. He prefered to confiscate OTHER people capital and spread it around acording to HIS will.

• UBREADER | Jan 11, 2011, 01:22 AM EST

  Seems Euro's are confused about group salvation -vs- individual salvation. Group salvation gets you nowhere. Voluntary individual sharing was encouraged by Jesus. Unvoluntary (taxes) group sharing was not.

• hancock | Jan 11, 2011, 01:08 AM EST

  No wonder Ireland is a joke.

• hollabackgurl | Jan 10, 2011, 08:47 PM EST

  So much genuine Christian sentiment being expressed here. If the doctrine of total selfishness was Christ's message to mankind, that is.

• McNamara31 | Jan 10, 2011, 07:43 PM EST

  @TheOldPerfessor...Amen, to all you said.

• Pittsburghkid | Jan 10, 2011, 07:38 PM EST

  Christ said "Render unto Ceasar what is Ceasar, and render unto the Lord what is the Lord". Christ was the first to recognise the division between Church and State. Where do property rights come in under you wonderful Christian world? I have an extra bedroom in my house. Am I required to bring a homeless man into my extra bedroom? If my daughter takes care of me when I'm elderly, under Communism I'm I permitted to give my daughter my estate when I pass? Keep you pinko B.S. No wonder the great Celtic Tiger, is now one of the EU Pigs. Wait until the rest of the EU dumps the Muslims into Ireland.

• hancock | Jan 10, 2011, 07:26 PM EST

  Many Americans already share half their paycheck when all is said and done. Cahir get you whiny Irish ass on a plane if you don't like it here.

• feeneycj | Jan 10, 2011, 06:26 PM EST

  one of, if not the most profitable, crimes in America??? Medicare fraud - estimated now to total about $60 billion a year.

• Searlit | Jan 10, 2011, 06:23 PM EST

  Some great comments here by cappamore, eriamach, DLW12183 and cranleigh.

• olovely | Jan 10, 2011, 06:05 PM EST

  So Jesus was just as selfish as we are, eh vincem13? He liked to hang out with rich guys. The poor are just there, like the furniture, so toss 'em a bone when you can on the way to the golf course.

• seamusmoore | Jan 10, 2011, 05:39 PM EST

  @cranleigh Just curious about this: when former PM Pierre Trudeau found out he had cancer, he immediately hopped on a flight to Sloan Kettering in NYC. If we socialize medicine, where will we in the US be able to hop on a flight to?

• Cranleigh | Jan 10, 2011, 05:22 PM EST

  Re Christianity, it's kind of odd that Americans have ended up taking their religious marching orders primarily from a French lawyer! I think Calvin was a closet atheist myself. Admittedly, what he came up with has worked out really well money-wise, no complaints there, but I can't imagine Jesus and the Apostles who allegedly held all things in common being too impressed. There are no easy solutions for health care. I'm happy enough with our Canadian system. Everyone is insured and most can find doctors and stay out of the ER. The idea that the poor can all get care in ERs is incorrect. How can you manage diabetes or high blood pressure down there? Two even bigger problems in the US than non-insurance are under-insurance, which affects an ever growing segment of the middle class, and bureaucracy. The system is just way too complicated for both users and providers. One virtue of a single payer system is I don't have to waste my life filling in forms. BTW up here in Newfoundland nobody has to wait 'years' for hip replacements or cataract ops either. I would say our system is socialized, as in civilized, not socialist. Not perfect by any means but still functioning reasonably well and providing a fairly level playing field for all.

• DLW12183 | Jan 10, 2011, 05:09 PM EST

  Hey Folks-Medicare is not free to the people. Have you not looked at how much you have paid into the medicare system. Do you not realized that the percentage you pay is not capped at an income level like social security. You guys talk like the over 65 are being given a gift or something. Truth is the more you make the more you paid and it is not even available to you until 65.

• hancock | Jan 10, 2011, 05:06 PM EST

  What do you expect from socialists from Europe.

• vincem13 | Jan 10, 2011, 04:41 PM EST

  Once again, Comrade Cahir, you prove that you just don't get it. Year after year the USA is either at the top or near there in individual charitable giving. Your beloved "Social" programs are run by a few to take resources from many and give them to others whom those running the programs decide as worthy. That is nothing more than theft, and Jesus would have nothing good to say about it. In two parables, Jesus actually praises capitalism (the Talent parables). His best friend, Lazarus, was a wealthy businessman. Capitalism is, so far, the best way to ensure that all who want to get a fair chance at making something of their lives and keeping their self respect. On the other hand, Jesus tells us that we'll always have the poor with us, and to help them as best we can. Government may be able to print money, but it can't really MAKE money. So when a government takes the peoples' money under the pretense of "helping the poor", any "help" will be paltry, inefficient and temporary at best. Moreover, there won't be any more after that, as no one in their right mind would keep on making money simply to have it taken away by Comrade Cahir and his friends.

• seamusmoore | Jan 10, 2011, 04:33 PM EST

  @cappamore If you look at per capita wealth wealth, the over 65's are certainly the wealthiest group in the US. It sure isn't 20 something college grads saddled with massive educational loans. My parents bought their first house for $23k in 1960; as their executor, I sold it last year for $750k. I don't think that my situation is unique, the home ownership rate in the US has been in the mid-60 (62% then, 67% now) range since 1960. How about means testing Medicare before it goes bankrupt, which it is scheduled for 2017. I would agree with your idea that if the govt gave back contributions, the option of going it alone would appeal to many. I know that I would go for it in a heartbeat.

• eiriamach | Jan 10, 2011, 02:12 PM EST

  An Insightful article! "When Americans decry socialism what they often mean is sharing." Yes, we might bond together after a national tragedy like the Tucson shooting or 9/11, but Monday through Friday, the motto seems to be "Don't tread on me." This is not the only failing of American capitalism. There's also greed (a.k.a. "profit motive") that drives individuals to corrupt practices. But in a nation that claims to have the finest health care system in the world, not to make it available to all who live here is to deny our neighbors a basic human right. Will the health care reform bill spawn corruption and government waste, as some comments suggest? Probably, unless we change the economic system that nurtures the selfishness in us.

• hollabackgurl | Jan 10, 2011, 01:25 PM EST

  You can't be selfish and selfless, but so many try. America's a religious country but not a very spiritual one. This article is right, it's really selfishness that's at the root of our objections to social protections.

• cappamore | Jan 10, 2011, 01:07 PM EST

  If seamusmoore thinks the over 65's are the richest in America,he ought to visit with some of us and prove his point. Nevertheless, if the Government would refund all that my wife and I contributed over our lifetimes maybe I and others would pull out of Medicare and go it alone.

• Monsoonman | Jan 10, 2011, 11:27 AM EST

  Christianity worked well with Jesus: He took the loaves and fishes and multiplied them magically to feed the crowds. The secular progressives, hiding behind "christianity" who want to give away other peoples money, think that it magically appears and don't want to know that that money is forcibly taken from hard working people. Yes healthcare could use some tweaking but the frankenstein monster healthcare that obama pushed through was a big give away to special interests and ignored the glaring problems in the present health industry, left those sacred cows untouched because that is who owns them. enough is enough repeal the monstrosity and surgically repair the present healthcare system to best care for American citizens, not the trial lawyers, or the insurance companies. Offer emergency care only to illegal citizens, just like other countries do, then ship them back to their countries of origin.

• SingleDonald | Jan 10, 2011, 10:50 AM EST

  DLW12183-Great comments! Cahir, we all must balance Christian principles with reality. I believe I was a senior in high school when I read an account of a woman who took a homeless woman in. To idealistic teenage Donald, this seemed like an honorable thing to do. Unfortunately, when the 1st woman left her house/apartment, she came home to find the 2nd woman gone, along with a sizable portion of her valuables! I therefore learned that devious people will exploit other peoples generosity and "Christian principles", to meet their own selfish, even criminal needs. Caution must always be practiced, even if it seems to compromise "Christian values".

• maryferring | Jan 10, 2011, 10:33 AM EST

  I am an American and agree with your comments. Please don't judge us by the Conservative Right, many of us feel very differently.

• FatherVol | Jan 10, 2011, 10:13 AM EST

  You certanly are a master of hyperbole, Mr. O'Doherty

• TheOldPerfessor | Jan 10, 2011, 10:07 AM EST

  Anybody who thinks that it is "Christian" to throw tens of millions of people under the bus is living in a Rupert Murdoch fantasy world. Try turning off Fox News and read the New Testament. Obama was elected specifically with the purpose of reforming health care. Republicans don't get this because when their Presidents are elected they don't fulfill any of their campaign promises.

• seamusmoore | Jan 10, 2011, 09:47 AM EST

  Can't speak as to why other Europeans are here, but the Irish (from the 1950's onward anyway) are here because of "jobs", which once again seem to be in short supply in Ireland. The reason is that Irish view the govt as the only solution to every ill, although the fiasco of sticking the Irish people with the obligations of the banks may go along way toward remedying that. The reason private medical insurance is becoming more unafforable every year in the US(for both businesses and individuals) is because of Medicare. When Medicare (govt health insurance for the elderly, those over 65; Medicaid is for the poor) was created (1965), the elderly was the poorest group in America (a result primarily of the Depression of the 1930's), today those over 65 are the richest group. Working people (the taxpayers) are subsidizing the healthcare of the richest segment of American society because of Medicare. Doctors and other health care providers are capped on Medicare reimbursements, want to take a guess who makes up the difference. The govt should be helping those that can't help themselves (i.e., the poor, who are covered by Medicaid), not subsidizing the the rich. Cahir is puzzled by the lack of compassion of Christians because they don't support national health insurance for all; yet he notes they are "very generous one on one" (read Albert Brooks' "Who Really Cares" if you doubt that. Perhaps, these Christians see how govt healthcare has led to rationing in Ireland, the UK and other places in Europe.

• DLW12183 | Jan 10, 2011, 09:41 AM EST

  America and its citizens are the most generous people of the world. Look at the amount of foreign aid which is provided worldwide. To single out the current health care bill as an example of the anti-christian sentiment that exists is way over the top, even for Irish Central. Approx. 40% of Americans don't pay taxes-who do you think supports them. Not one American will go without health care at a US Hospital if they cannot pay-we do have poor relief and Medicaid. We also have food pantries, help with heating bills and on and on. No I wouldn't want to live that life and that's exactly why I and my wife both work at an age when in some other counties we would have been retired for several years. The problem with the health care law is that we don't like the European model. If I have a cataract problem I don't want to wait 12 months on a health care system-I want to have the problem corrected in the next two weeks which we do in America. Irish Central-open your eyes and deal with the real issue and take christianity out of it. The health care bill was jammed down our throats by a power hungry executive branch when a majority didn't support it.

• CarolMaske | Jan 10, 2011, 09:35 AM EST

  I am American and I agree with you. But, let me point out that not all Americans think like this, please believe me. It is no secret that our health care system is a horrible mess and that our political system is having a very hard time coping with the problem. But, we are trying...

• feeneycj | Jan 10, 2011, 09:22 AM EST

  this article is cynical crock Cahir. most people are just working a job everyday, trying to pay bills and struggling to plan their retirements. get over your socialistic self and give of your own self with a more positive, less prejudicial way. the government consumes, but businesses create. workplace charities are great givers in America.

• kedmiston | Jan 10, 2011, 09:13 AM EST

  I do so agree. It's really quite shamful.

• TheOldPerfessor | Jan 10, 2011, 09:06 AM EST

  "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven." Jesus.