If Ireland can't pay, Ireland shouldn't pay
By: Cahir O'Doherty | Published Sunday, November 28, 2010, 9:20 AM | Updated Friday, September 9, 2011, 9:56 PM
Today, as the talks between the
EU and the
IMF on an $112.5 billion Irish aid package conclude, the wealthy and the well-connected scoundrels who dumped their debts onto the Irish people still look like they might get away with it.
Those self-serving bankers, developers and politicians who treated
Ireland like their own private casino have just handed their fellow citizens a 19 century diet of austerity, poverty and heartache (because, they suspect, they'll never fight back).
And if you ever imagined the people responsible for this disaster would share in the losses, or acknowledge their culpability, then today you've had your fingers rubbed on the fiery braille of what's really happening.
Instead of seeing these bankers and developers hoisted on their Louis Copeland designed petards,
Fianna Fail stepped in to guarantee the banks’ debts, turning private losses into public obligations.
Let's just consider what that actually means: in Ireland our homegrown golden circle, the men who walk between the raindrops no matter how bad the economic weather, can privatize their profits and socialize their losses.
That's exactly the kind of political trade-off that caused French aristocrats to lose their heads once.
And let's also pause to consider just how hard won Irish independence was. Men and women gave their lives to win our sovereignty - and now we're just going to hand it over the IMF and the EU without a fight because loose banking regulations and government ineptitude created this disaster?
If Ireland can't pay then Ireland must default and follow the example set in
Iceland.
Punishing the Irish public for the mistakes of a small and unrepresentative group of rogue bankers is simply unfair and frankly the massive new IMF/EU debt load is much too high to be paid back.
The Irish public's new diet of nettle soup and hard rain is about to come to a boil, I predict.
24 Comments
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.Monsoonman | Nov 30, 2010, 11:20 AM EST
Tempranillo has a good point, spread the taxes evenly, let everyone have some skin in the game. What's the fairness of 47% of the population of non taxpayers imposing taxes on the rest?
tempranillo | Nov 29, 2010, 09:07 PM EST
what about some constructive ideas? how about the 'alternative minimum tax' to put some of the 46% non-taxpaying units back on the tax rolls. Why not nationalise BOI & AIB....restructure them and someday do the ipo. many other ideas, too-------but do not disengage
tempranillo | Nov 29, 2010, 08:55 PM EST
YOU think the economic crisis is bad today, try defaulting & walking away from your obligations. Let me ask what you willl do when no one will give you import credits--Ireland is THE MOST OPEN ECONOMY IN THE WEST--perhaps you knew that. and, what happens when all those evil companies pull out when they can't do business. You, Mr Doherty, are out of your element and your ignorance of economics appalling.
hollabackgurl | Nov 29, 2010, 07:09 PM EST
Did the Irish people draft the banking regulations or lend massive international loans to organizations that couldn't repay them? In a word, no. They don't need to carry the can.
Monsoonman | Nov 29, 2010, 01:22 PM EST
Did someone hold a pistol to the heads of the Irish & the Americans who voted the leaders into office on the platform of free rainbow stew, free bubble up, free paychecks, 100K gummint street sweepers...Whose hand was on that Glock anyway?
hollabackgurl | Nov 29, 2010, 12:12 PM EST
It is not democracy, it's the negation of everything democracy stands for: the Irish government are surrendering their economy, their mandate to govern and their own sovereignty to unelected international bankers answerable to no one.
Monsoonman | Nov 29, 2010, 12:06 PM EST
What you are witnessing is democracy in action hollabackgurl. Enough of the population votes for who is going to give them the most goodies for nothing, without voting for what is best for the countries future. The Greeks found it out long ago. We are finding it out now. The handwriting is on the wall for the US, with the voter fraud groups like ACORN, organizing and multiplying the votes of those who do not work, do not produce, but only take, it gave us a socialist controlled government whose only aim is to stay in power, whatever the cost.
hollabackgurl | Nov 29, 2010, 11:57 AM EST
That's not, as you say, "nuff said." We're witnessing the existential collapse of the Irish economy. It won't be fixed by robbing old people of their pensions or the unemployed of their benefits. Ireland's most vulnerable should not have to pay for the epic incompetence of Ireland's most privileged. The IMF and EU bailout cost is simply unsustainable and frankly stupid and it can not stand.
Monsoonman | Nov 29, 2010, 11:46 AM EST
You can't play make believe economics forever, sooner or later chickens come home to roost, there has to be an accounting. A bus driver working for the taxpayers is not worth 120K per year plus benefits. A Spanish air traffic controller working for the government is not worth 500K per year plus benefits. The working people of a country do just that, they work. Business people and financiers create jobs, start companies, create wealth and provide jobs. Unions do not create or inspire jobs, they hop on board the dream and rake as much off the top as they can until the host dies, or moves overseas. The hosts are dying. Who voted in your politicians who made the deals with the banks and unions? Nuff said.
boomerbob | Nov 29, 2010, 10:20 AM EST
The Irish have the brass to stand up to the elite. The U.S. didn't and we'll not recover for many, many years. Stand up for your rights!!!
Dublinjas | Nov 29, 2010, 05:40 AM EST
The Irish Peoples voices must be heard, The message they have for the ECB/IMF and their recently concluded agreement with the Rogue non representative body posing as the Government of Ireland is get fcuking stuffed.
seamusmoore | Nov 29, 2010, 12:05 AM EST
olovely Why was the govt powerless to restrain or contain these wheeler dealers? They didn't want to because govt coffers were being filled with transfer tax revenue. The govt had the revenue to bribe voters with giveaways; BTW, unlike Greece, which spent themselves into default, Ireland's required IMF/EU intervention was not caused by spending(Ireland ran surpluses from 2005 to 2007). As Paul Krugman of the New York Times pointed out, Ireland's financial black hole is due to the govt choosing to make private risk (bondholders and foreign bank lenders) into a public obligation of the Irish taxpayer. You are right that this isn't the working people of Ireland's responsibility, but the blame squarely rest with the govt which signed a blank check payable by the Irish taxpayer. You should have been screaming when they created NAMA and transferred those toxic loans onto the govt's books. If Cowan & company had not done that, the risk of default would still lie with bondholders and foreign lenders, NOT Irish taxpayers. My point remains: government solutions are usually worse than the problems they seek to solve.
PolinDeB | Nov 28, 2010, 11:14 PM EST
Default Default Default.. as simple as that. And anyone who think we should be fair to Europe.. all deals are off with the new Empire... Sin e ar La! - Brian Cowen has no right to make any deals in the name of the Irish people. Let the people speak. Article 6 of the Irish Constitution. 1. All powers of government, legislative, executive and judicial, derive, under God, from the people, whose right it is to designate the rulers of the State and, in final appeal, to decide all questions of national policy, according to the requirements of the common good.
maloney | Nov 28, 2010, 10:06 PM EST
If it's not free why bother.
olovely | Nov 28, 2010, 10:05 PM EST
This isn't the working people of Ireland's responsibility. They didn't write the banking regulations or loan the cash. Ireland's social net has nothing to do with how the country got here. This is the work of crony capitalism. Ireland's problem wasn't caused by joining the Euro, it was caused by a bunch of high flying wheeler-dealers who bit off more than they could chew and a government that was powerless to either restrain or contain them. Spare us all the right wing bullcrap about Regan and responsibility. The Irish people were hoodwinked by a cabal of irresponsible flyboys.
Monsoonman | Nov 28, 2010, 07:26 PM EST
Fresh from the academic world where everyone gets an A so they can feel good about themselves. The young cahirs of the world are horrified when personal responsibility is called for, it is foreign to them.
seamusmoore | Nov 28, 2010, 05:49 PM EST
Cahir, you seem to have trouble grasping that many bankers and developers HAVE paid a penalty; most or all of their wealth has been wiped out. I certainly don't pity them, they deserve to pay a price for excessive and foolish risk taking. The 19th century diet, as you call it, that is about to be forced on the Irish people is a result of the Irish govt taking on the loans from the banks (i.e., NAMA). Last year the govt DID effectively turned private debt (Irish bank bondholders and foreign bank lenders)into a public obligation; that point you have right. The time for Irish citizens to complain or protest was then; after all, the Irish govt gets all their money from its citizens. As Ronald Reagan once said, too often the govt isn't the solution, but rather the problem. In this case, that is certainly true. BTW, Ireland surrendered its sovereignty about a decade ago when it gave up its currency and Central Bank autonomy to Brussels, who in turn provided Ireland with cheap money to create the real estate bubble. Govt mandated second votes on Nice and Lisbon didn't exactly exhibit a great deal of Irish sovereignty either.
ciarrai | Nov 28, 2010, 03:50 PM EST
Off with their heads. The least that should happen is real jail time. The Irish should not pay the debt of others.
Liamkeyes | Nov 28, 2010, 02:57 PM EST
The more I think about it....the less I think about it!!!
dubslaine | Nov 28, 2010, 01:41 PM EST
Do Not Pay., This the smame stupid solution as the the americans.Note the small a.
hollabackgurl | Nov 28, 2010, 11:50 AM EST
I'm quite sure that punishing the Irish people for a crime they didn't commit isn't just unfortunate, it's economically unwise. Investors think Iceland's debts are safer than Ireland's (for all its austerity) and they haven't shed the jobs that Ireland has. Your enthusiastic right wing attack on Ireland's social net discredits your argument and reveals your bias REMITROMJR.
Pittsburghkid | Nov 28, 2010, 11:44 AM EST
Why should Ireland pay because bankers made bad loans? Didn't the Banks take interest for the loans? If the loans were paid back would the Bankers have shared the interest with the Irish People? NO Should the Banks have structured their interest payment from the loan to cover the cost of bad loans? Yes. Shouldn't the underwriters of the loans have foreseen the current problem? Yes. Businesses go Bankrupt everyday, Why are the Banks so special? If the Banks goes belly up, then the world will go on. My house will be still standing. If I have a mortgage, then someone else will buy my mortgage. If I'm underwater in my mortgage, then I have to move into something more affortable. The farmer will grow his crops, and will still need a buyer. Car makers will continue to sell cars. The government will continue to collect taxes. Eventually this will all happen, because the real problem is not Banks, but the declining standard of living in the 1st world. The Third World is catching up to the first world, and demanding more resources. This Third World demand is driving prices up. The first world or the Western Nations are being devalued. Our standard of living is dropping, and giving money to the Banks is only postponing reality. Banks that made stupid loans are going to fail, either in 2011, or 2012, but they will fail.
killowen | Nov 28, 2010, 11:32 AM EST
Cahir, its time to put a stop to the bloodsucker sharks of our planet - your - punishing the Irish public for the mistakes of a small and unrepresentative group of rogue bankers is simply unfair and frankly the massive new IMF/EU debt load is much too high to be paid back - is spot on. Those on the bottom of the pyramid regardless of their numbers can be corralled like sheeep by their very own for a few bob. It shows the power of the manipulator type characters whose ill gotten gains needs be be tapped into - swiftly - to balance the out of control condition that is Ireland's. Drug lord assets are seized, why not a similiar treatment being the fate of those who destroy and are aided and abetted by their bought politicians. Fianna Fail Fianna Gael and such ilk needs to be gaoled and swiftly. The shamrock bowl presentation in 2011 will be laughable beyond words - crying on the insides.
REMITROMJR | Nov 28, 2010, 10:25 AM EST
Cahir, Do you really want a similar result in Ireland to: The Icelandic currency fallen sharply in value, foreign currency transactions virtually suspended for weeks, and the market capitalization of the stock exchange has dropped by more than 90%, the country undergoing a severe economic recession, the gross domestic product decreased by 5.5% in real terms in the first six months of 2009. The full cost of the crisis exceeds 75% of the country's 2007 GDP. Externally, more than half a million depositors (far more than the entire population of the country) found their bank accounts frozen amid a diplomatic argument over deposit insurance. Bayern Bank faces losses of up to €1.5 billion, and has had to seek help from the German federal government. The government of the Isle of Man will pay out half of its reserves, equivalent to 7.5% of the island's GDP, in deposit insurance? All this disruption so that Ireland can continue the unrealistic standard of having the most comprehensive range of benefits in the world? You no longer live in Ireland, if you ever did, and should be more concerned about the effect of this crisis on the world economy rather than unsustainable social benefits that socialist politicians foisted on the people of Ireland without knowing how to deal with inevitable economic bad times.