GOP distrust of Muslims reaches boiling point
By: Cahir O'Doherty | Published Monday, August 16, 2010, 1:05 PM | Updated Friday, September 9, 2011, 9:47 PM

In
America it seems there's no problem, no matter how complex or intractable, that can't be solved by a braying
lynch mob. It's as familiar as apple pie, if not quite as reassuring.
Take the controversy over the proposed Islamic cultural center at Ground Zero. Critics of the plan have been saber rattling for weeks now: 'Building a 15-story mosque at Ground Zero is a deliberately provocative act that will precipitate more bloodshed in the name of Allah,' wrote Debra Burlingame, co-founder of 9/11 Families for a Safe & Strong America.
Burlingame believes that the real plan is for triumphalist Muslims to rub our noses in it. How she knows this she omits to say. It's safe to assume she hasn't noticed how provocative her own words are. In fact Burlingame believes we're witnessing a clash of civilizations.
'What just happened is like spraying swastikas all over a Jewish memorial,' said Andy Sullivan, a construction worker at Ground Zero during 9/11. Well no in fact it isn't, Andy, and it's quite important to point that out.
First of all, it isn't a mosque, it's an Islamic cultural center which, although it would include a mosque for prayer, would be 15 stories tall with a swimming pool, an auditorium and other amenities that make it more like a YMCA than an militant Madrasah.
Sullivan has fallen for the same knee-jerk depiction of Islam as a single monolithic form of faith, inherently violent and extreme, and of all Muslims as incapable of being moderate. At times it seems the objections to this center are largely driven by the same nativist sentiments we hear about in the Tea Party.
'
George Bush made every attempt to reach out,' said Congressman Peter King, a leading critic of the mosque project. 'The Muslim community did not reciprocate, did not respond.'
So how, amidst all this rage, will religious tolerance make an appeal? Mob rule, however well intentioned or passionate, shouldn't trump the American constitution or the bill of rights - simply because we're dealing with an unfavored minority. Either we are who we say we are or we are not. Difficult choices like this give us the chance to really be who we say we are.
This proposed Islamic center is planned as a center for moderate voices. We should be strongly encouraging them to speak up, not sending them packing to triumphalist applause. In
New York, in any case, these people are our friends and neighbors, they are not shadowy militant cells who no one knows and who know no one, plotting our or anyone's demise.
Despite what some critics are hatefully claiming, this Islamic center wasn't planned as an insult to the memory of 9/11; the people who run it are not the
Taliban. It will be located over two city blocks from the 9/11 site. There already is a major and historical Christian church located within blocks of the ground zero and no one is calling for its dismantling, as yet.
New York City
Mayor Michael Bloomberg had it right when he praised the president, calling the comments a clarion defense of the freedom of religion. 'This proposed mosque and community center in Lower
Manhattan is as important a test of the separation of church and state as we may see in our lifetime,' Bloomberg said in a statement.
Al Qaeda, not Islam, attacked New York on 9/11. In fact
al Qaeda has killed more Muslims than people of any other religion. But this is the kind of complicating detail that lynch mobs hate, which is why it bears repeating.
That commitment must be absolute, or it's meaningless.
Like George W Bush before him, the president has taken a measured and clear thinking line on Islam as a religion of peace. Bush was not pilloried for it by the pundits, neither should Obama be.
UPDATE: As
Josh Marshall noted today in Talking Points Memo: 'We're in a midst of a spasm of nativist panic and raw and raucous appeals to race and religious hatred. What effects this will have on the November election strikes me as not particularly relevant. What's important is compiling some record of what's afoot, some catalog for understanding in the future who was responsible and who was so willing to disgrace their country and their principles for cheap advantage.'
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.hollabackgurl | Sep 07, 2010, 04:34 PM EDT
Making blatant threats of violence against the President is against the law, Maloney.
maloney | Sep 03, 2010, 09:07 PM EDT
As big a threat as the muslims are, they aren't anywhere near as bad as obummer, slew foot pelosi, reid, frank & so on. I hope I'm wrong but I think soon it will be time to stop talking. Clean your firearms & make sure your powder is dry. Duherty, just a little bias, just, maybe
domuscanus | Sep 03, 2010, 01:21 PM EDT
Doherty, stop banging the drum for the Dems. They wasted one opportunity after another by being just a tad too slick and cute for their own survival in a leadership role. Yes they could-but now they can't. Fact of life, read the numbers. As for "Blame the Tea Party, it has done a sterling job of releasing the inner bigot in people". that's a rather lazy way of dismissing those who disagree with your own peculiar take on the cultural vandalism planned for an area in New York that suffered at the hands of mass murderers. When a convent was established near Auschwitz by Catholic nuns whose intention was to pray for the lost souls of Hitlers madness, they were ordered by Rome to dismantle it as it was considered extremely insensitive. Those Muslims who plan to build a mosque close to sacred ground can do no less. Abandon this idea, and who knows what the future may hold for them, perhaps they will be seen more sympathetically for such an act of humanity toward their fellow human beings. In the meantime, put the drum away.
OHofmanndawg | Sep 03, 2010, 09:50 AM EDT
Wow, this article certainly sounds slanted in favor of our Marxist President Obama. I'm going to scroll up now and discover who wrote it. Well, what do you know? Cahir O'Doherty wrote it. You know, he's the guy who carries the water for Obama!
Monsoonman | Aug 31, 2010, 10:51 AM EDT
The house shills getting you to check or bet,,,,lol!
IrishAndProud | Aug 30, 2010, 11:47 PM EDT
None of us knows Dennis Miller's ancestry, regarding the Civil War. Chances are though, that he did have ancestry in it. My own great-great grandfather fought under Grant at the seige of Vicksburg Mississippi, and later under William T. Sherman, and was with him on the march to Atlanta. I doubt Sherman (or any number of other historic figures) would have been quite so coddling of a 13-story Confederate Center just three blocks from the Gettysburg area.
hollabackgurl | Aug 30, 2010, 01:06 PM EDT
You're mistaken to confuse the view of the GOP with the view of the majority of Americans. I don't support religious or ethnic discrimination, nor do I think that the Islamic cultural center in downtown Manhattan will be a haven for terrorists. You guys need to get a grip and move on, seriously.
hollabackgurl | Aug 28, 2010, 02:42 PM EDT
O'Doherty what have you against the American majority? It looks like you follow the far left minorities hate America view! The Muslims are just trying to stick their finger in America’s eye. My son has spent three tours in Iraq, and Afghanistan, as a USMC officer and I take it personally when someone tries to kill my son!!!
patrick1945 | Aug 25, 2010, 01:23 PM EDT
Boy you sure got it bad against Republicans. Have you notice Mr. O'Doherty that your viewpoint is always opposite to that of the American people. Any Muslim bashing as you call it, was the result of promoting this Mosque at Ground Zero. It's not a question of right to build if they actually own the property, it's a question of should they build it there. No matter what kind of spin you put on this Mosque, it will always be a shrine to terrorism in the minds of Americans.
seanomelbourne | Aug 23, 2010, 11:21 PM EDT
My great grandfather fought under Grant,I doubt if Miller donned the uniform of the U.S. Miller should thank Ulysses for the freedom he enjoys to vilify that which he disagrees with.
Monsoonman | Aug 22, 2010, 11:03 PM EDT
He has that same scruffy beard and disheveled look of Ulysses S. Grant. But instead of engineering battles, Miller engineers brilliant social commentary, without drawing a drop of blood.
seanomelbourne | Aug 22, 2010, 09:15 PM EDT
Dennis Miller a maudlin type. He reminds me of sadsack.
DennisQ | Aug 22, 2010, 05:46 PM EDT
Just a footnote to the person who claimed that Iraqis are not Arabs. You are confusing them with Iranians. Both Iraqis and Iranians are Muslims, but only Iraqis are Arabs.
DennisQ | Aug 22, 2010, 05:35 PM EDT
If we're going to encourage other societies to cast out the murderers in their midst, we could start with our own. The siege of Fallujah was a murderous rampage by U.S. Marines who were frustrated because they were losing, and they knew it. These are not the only Marines who've gone on murderous rampages out of frustration - the Haditha Marines come to mind as well. These thugs have come home to tumultuous welcomes as heroes.
The most notorious American murderer was Lt. Ilario Pantano, who directed his subordinates to look away while he shot and killed two unarmed Iraqi prisoners. Pantano retained an expensive attorney that his mother's Wall Street friends paid for. He beat the rap and is now a Marine Corps celebrity. He's running for Congress in the district outside Camp Lejeune in North Carolina.
Lt. Pantano will be a guest speaker at a rally to oppose the Islamic Center on Park Place. He belongs in prison as the murderer he is, but he will no doubt receive a honorarium for addressing a right wing crowd. They are calling him a war hero.
Monsoonman | Aug 21, 2010, 06:02 PM EDT
Dennis Miller had it right the other night: Until the "peaceful muslims" militantly and proactively rise up and cast out the jihadists who hide in their midst to commit murder in the name of their religion...they have NO credibility.
seanomelbourne | Aug 20, 2010, 02:07 AM EDT
I certainly need a blackboard to explain to you. Firstly any gombeen could could tell you I was not taking a left or right position merely pointing out that no matter which side of the fence you sit on you will be judged,but you continue to personalize every comment, it,s not all about your point of view. I love the way you sneak in Morris as a former Clinton adviser as if he was a neutral commentator. I am well aware of "Fox" Morris and his disdain of Clinton and the Dems. A typical democrat deserter trying to justify his existence. I do watch fox at times.10k away but diligent.
IrishAndProud | Aug 20, 2010, 12:57 AM EDT
...and here's one from former Clinton advisor Dick Morris, in his article 'Ground Zero Mosque - The Real Issue' [BEGIN QUOTE]: "Politically, President Obama’s defense of the mosque and his efforts to make it a First Amendment issue are incredibly self-destructive. They raise questions about his political sanity. It is hard to believe how tone deaf he must have become to take such a position. He has now embraced two positions that are anathema to two-thirds of all Americans — the mosque and opposition to Arizona’s immigration law. Neither was a controversy that sought him out. He waded into each one voluntarily with flags flying. He had no role in the Arizona law but his lawsuit to invalidate it made it his fight. He does not sit on the New York City Planning Commission, but his endorsement of the mosque puts him squarely in the center of controversy. What is he using for brains these days?" [END QUOTE] Now, either the stuff Morris said is true, or it's not. If not, how?
IrishAndProud | Aug 20, 2010, 12:55 AM EDT
Same sentiments here toward YOU, sean. Yeah, one man's terrorist is another man's 'hero.' And you're apparently trying to use that position, in classic left-leaning fashion, to nuance and 'gray up' any opposition from Americans toward Islamist terrorism as being 'no different' than anyone else with a gripe. What are YOUR gripes, seanny? Maybe YOUR heroes are ANOTHER person's/group's terrorists. If you want to play this game it can be spun right back onto you...so it gets you nowhere. To a 'progressive,' there ARE no absolutes (even though that statement is in itself a laughable contradiction), and no right and wrong, right? Oh btw add Howard Dean to the rapidly-growing list of Democrats who oppose the Ground Zero Victory Mosque...
seanomelbourne | Aug 19, 2010, 08:36 PM EDT
2Bornot2b! You fail to get the point (as usual). Let me simplify it for you in another way, "one man's terrorist is another mans hero".Now 2b that means regardless of which side you support you will be defined by different groups as supporting hero's or terrorist's.God!! I wish i could use a blackboard to explain the "bleeding obvious" to some of you bloggers and that includes you IandP.
LinLinisme | Aug 19, 2010, 01:13 PM EDT
Why does a person of low mentality have a job like this
2BorNot2B | Aug 19, 2010, 02:48 AM EDT
How's this for crazy comment: **Terrorism like beauty is in the eye of the beholder** Yeah, tell us that when someone flies a plane into your house and kills your entire family.
seanomelbourne | Aug 19, 2010, 01:07 AM EDT
Terrorism like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
shidoobe | Aug 18, 2010, 01:15 PM EDT
No mosque near ground Zero what is so hard about that?
IrishAndProud | Aug 18, 2010, 02:23 AM EDT
No, seanny...I have eyes, ears, consciousness, the internet and the news. The bulk of all wars being fought on earth today are being waged by Muslims against others (including their own people), and the majority of terrorists are Muslims. And the moon is not green cheese, water has dampness and the Democrats are in trouble.
seanomelbourne | Aug 18, 2010, 01:49 AM EDT
IandP has a world list of terrorist I wonder how cockeyed his list is?
IrishAndProud | Aug 17, 2010, 09:55 PM EDT
kathrynk, not all Muslims are terrorists -- but most terrorists in the world today are Muslim. That means something, you know. That couldn't be MORE relevant.
2BorNot2B | Aug 17, 2010, 04:59 PM EDT
Reviewing The numbers, Manhattan has a population of around 1.537 Million people.-- Lower Manhattan can NOT have more than 117,187 residents, of which no more than around 3,516 could be ‘North African or Arab’ and perhaps of those, not all muslims. -- So really, in order to build an fill a 13 story monstrosity that would hold 4000 to 7500 individuals at any given time and call it 'a mosque to serve the community’ they'd need to have a population of over 85,000 muslims South of Canal St living in residential neighborhoods. That for now, and even in the fairly distant future, is IMPOSSIBLE! -- Which then brings into high relief the fact that the stated purpose for this place is nothing more than to erect a triumphalist muslim building. -- In fact, for muslim terrorists to achieve this feat is an 'obvious moment,' similar to the flag posted by USMC on Iwo Jima after taking that beach. -- Furthermore, any cynic would conclude that at this time it would be surprising if there were even 280 LEGAL Mid-Eastern residents in NYC south of Canal Street.
2BorNot2B | Aug 17, 2010, 04:55 PM EDT
Regarding the construction of a mosque, to serve the islamic community of Lower Manhattan, the information of those who actually know the area is the following: It is well known that the Real Estate in that particular area is dedicated to office and commercial space, NOT residential; then, whatever residential space is available, it's NOT inhabited by a concentration of muslims, or people of arab descent. -- There are likely to be more transient druggies around that area than muslims, therefore, the excuse that the proposed mosque has the purpose of serving the muslim community of Lower Manhattan is totally bogus.-- Actually, ‘The Community of Lower Manhattan’ is everything South of Canal St – ‘Right in the Middle of Chinatown’ and, again, it's doubtful there are even two dozen arabs or muslims anywhere in Chinatown. ---
ALyons3960 | Aug 17, 2010, 10:07 AM EDT
To anyone who calls us members of a "braying lynch mob," I would ask you if you were in New York that day. Everyone in this town knows someone who lost loved ones on September 11. It was a day of horror that will live in my heart forever. Downtown Manhattan is a very congested area. A building that is a few blocks away from Ground Zero is not far away at all. To have a mosque so nearby is indelicate. There are many sites in New York City where an old crumbling building may be replaced by a new one. Why not use one of those sites? We do have a beautiful mosque on the Upper East Side. Out of respect for the suffering we New Yorkers still feel, please build the mosque elsewhere. :
kathrynk | Aug 17, 2010, 08:30 AM EDT
To say that all Muslims are terrorists is a totally ignorant statement. Thats like someone looking at the KKK or American Nazi groups (many who claim the identity of Christian) and deducing that all Christians are terrorists. You need to do some studying about Islam, which is an Abrahamic, an a peaceful religion. There are always people who claim to be a member of a particular religion who in no way represent what that religion is about, i.e. those who claim to be Christians yet every word our of their mouths reeks of hate. I do agree that it is probably not a good idea to have the building in that particular place because it causes such responses in many people.
olovely | Aug 17, 2010, 08:14 AM EDT
Well, the poster Maghnus just showed us, in his own unvarnished way, what many conservatives are actually thinking. That's why they should be opposed. Our fundamentalists are just as spiteful and reactionary, it seems.
jamieLM | Aug 17, 2010, 07:51 AM EDT
McNabb1966 - you said it so well. Agree 100%.
MAGHNUS | Aug 17, 2010, 05:50 AM EDT
You're Irish...be proud of that!!! Irish bow to no one!!!
MAGHNUS | Aug 17, 2010, 05:46 AM EDT
Al-Qaeda, muslims, what's the difference. They're all the same thing. Terrorists. Muslims shouldn't have the right to practice their filthy religion anywhere in the world. The same thing we're hearing here in America, is the same that thousands have heard all around the world, and we see how other countries have had to deal with them. "All we want is to have the right to practice our religion in peace" Really? That's a news-header I recall reading on here for Ireland about 8 months ago...another I read more recently for Ireland is that muslims are pushing to place their filthy islamic flag as the National Flag of Ireland...Seriously? That's nothing short of bullshit!!! Both sides of my family are from Ireland, and though I wasn't born there, I'm certainly proud of the geneological heritage I have. I find it disgusting and down-right disturbing that the Irish People have fallen so low that they are willing to convert and bow down to yet another invader of Ireland. I know that there are some true Irish people there (true, as in, ancestral heritage of 1500 years or more, not these illegals having anchor-babies and claiming they're Irish) that are sick and tired of all the crap going on over there. For God's Sake (that's God, not allah, or the child molesting muhammad ali, but the ONE TRUE GOD OF HEAVEN) stand up and fight back!!! Fight for your people, for yourself, your children, and your Country. If they want to call you racists, like they are over here, then by God, be racist, and take your Country back!!!
2BorNot2B | Aug 17, 2010, 04:41 AM EDT
And the proposed mosque, btw, is not a few blocks from Ground Zero... it is Ground Zero!-- The intended building used to be The Burlington Coat Factory, which was hit by a major fragment of the plane Muha-mad Atta was piloting.-- The building was right in the middle of the attack and has been abandoned since that time. A minor point which has not been widely reported.-- Oh yes, there is a definite agenda going on here....
2BorNot2B | Aug 17, 2010, 04:28 AM EDT
**The Muslim community in the U.S. doesn't stone women or hang homosexuals.**-- Not yet anyway, but don't get too comfy, that's only because they are a negligible minority with little political power; just wait.. somewhere in the wings, there's an Ahmadinejad-type -just a tad more radicalized than the guy who came up with the bright idea of the Cordoba House- getting groomed.-- As of now they may not be stoning women... they're actually biding their time, practicing marksmanship at close range as we saw on a recent TV documentary, by putting half a dozen bullets through the temple of 16 and 18 year old daughters for 'dishonoring the family' then bravely running back to sandstorm paradise they originally came from to escape the law. The poor girls sin? Dating outside their religion and race.-- Indeed, islam is a religion of tolerance and peace!-- As for hanging homosexuals.. that would be too quick and merciful.. they have more protracted forms of making them recant their preferred lifestyle...just before they kill them.
McNabb1966 | Aug 17, 2010, 01:53 AM EDT
@DennisQ.....Wow, so many of your falsehoods to address. First of all, this is not “Republican” bigotry. The opposition to Cordoba House is definitely bipartisan in nature. Secondly, the opposition is not based on, nor does it originate from, “bigotry.” It does not originate in any “anti-Muslim hysteria.” And the only “strategy” coming into play here is the one being executed by the Left when deliberately distort the issue. This is part of the discredited strategy of trying to end/dominate a discussion by accusing your opponents of “racism” or “bigotry” or both. Bush blamed 9/11 on Islamic terrorists, period. And for the record, Iraquis are not “Arab” at all. But that’s a fine point that I don’t expect hyperventilating Lefties to acknowledge or even know about. I’m not arguing for a “separate but equal” ANYTHING but thanks for proving my point about the strategy being employed on the Left. Nice insertion of a loaded phrase from a bygone era that has nothing to do with the current topic. And yes, there is a property issue involved and if Cordoba House is ultimately built at Ground Zero it will be ONLY because of that - not because it’s appropriate or culturally sensitive. My rationale for opposing Cordoba House is the same as so many others in this country, across the political spectrum: It is insulting and hurtful to the victims of 9/11, their families, the people of New York who were traumatized by a massive act of terrorism (perpetrated, btw, in the name of Islam and, therefore, insulting to the vast majority of Muslims as well). I believe it is meant to be deliberately insulting and triumphalist. The choice of “Cordoba” for the project is also indicative of their motives. The fact of the matter is that I couldn’t care less whether or not a bright, shiny Islamic center is built in New York City. If they need the facility in order to meet the demands of the Muslims in the Big Apple then fine, build it….somewhere. Anywhere but Ground Zero.
RichardBrodie | Aug 17, 2010, 12:24 AM EDT
Irish American poet Ellin Anderson challenges us to rethink the meaning of the Statue of Liberty, with her new Petrarchan sonnet penned in answer to the one by Jewish poet, Emma Lazarus, currently enshrined on its pedestal: ellinanderson dotcom slash oldglory Miss Anderson’s poem reminds us of the grief we have brought upon ourselves by a too generous welcoming of immigrants from alien cultures and religions, who bring with them values that are inimical to those upon which our nation was founded. The French originally called this gift to America “Liberty Enlightening the People”. It had nothing whatsoever to do with immigration, but was rather a celebration of the embodiment of Freedom in the United States Constitution. It actually faces towards Europe, not Saudi Arabia, and will never bow down to Mecca. Rather Lady Liberty will always stand up proudly in defense of Western Civilization. No mosque should be built within one mile for each victim, of Ground Zero.
hancock | Aug 17, 2010, 12:04 AM EDT
Lets put a Confederste War museum 2 blocks from the motel where Martin Luther King got shot. Its legal.
hancock | Aug 16, 2010, 10:38 PM EDT
Is Islam a tolerant religion?
hancock | Aug 16, 2010, 10:24 PM EDT
What Moslem countries are free?
Binasdad | Aug 16, 2010, 10:11 PM EDT
Very sad that some people think that freedom of religion is only for religions they agree with. This thinking would be right at home in a country run by the Taliban. Way out of place in America.
RichardBrodie | Aug 16, 2010, 09:21 PM EDT
Mr. O'Doherty Could you please tell me why you don't want to allow an Irish American's poem, which has relevance to the subject of your article, to be allowed as a comment? I have tried to post a link several times now, and you seem uninterested in showing it, which seems strange because you do promote yourselves, after all, as an Irish-American voice, And I don't think there is anything that would violate your comments policy. Do you have something against the MacGregor clan? :) Here is my email address, if you would care to be so kind as to repond: richard-brodie@cox.net
PolinDeB | Aug 16, 2010, 09:16 PM EDT
Hmm... Carolynirish ... Your right but doesn't the article say there already is Christian church beside this Mosque in their homeland, the USA. Oh yeah, I'm pretty sure the Muslims building this are from Manhattan and probably don't object to Christan shrines at the 9/11 site?
Carolynirish | Aug 16, 2010, 09:10 PM EDT
No one seems upset that Islam won't allow any place of worship of any denomination built there. Instead, liberal Americans are fighting for their rights to build a Mosque near 9\11's holy ground. I think we should let them build a Mosque when they let every religion build a place of worship in their homeland,right next to their shrines!!
olovely | Aug 16, 2010, 08:32 PM EDT
It's our fundamentalists versus their fundamentalists; except that their side are moderates.
IrishAndProud | Aug 16, 2010, 08:03 PM EDT
And again, Harry Reid, as reported by the Associated Press: "The Senate's top Democrat says a mosque should not be built near the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada on Monday became the highest profile Democrat to break with President Barack Obama, who on Friday backed the right for the developers to build a mosque near ground zero. In a statement, Reid said the first amendment protects freedom of religion and he respects that, but the mosque should be built somewhere else."
IrishAndProud | Aug 16, 2010, 07:54 PM EDT
btw seanny you need to cite your sources, as I've made a habit of (like for that poll you cited)...not that it changes the numbers but it does assist in your credibility -- which is pretty well shot. btw no one has misrepresented what Obama said; he said it, and the whole country is reacting negatively to it...because (again, like in that poll you cited) they may agree with him as I do that Muslims have a right to build there, but they disagree profoundly that they SHOULD build there. Obama tried to play catch-up to those sentiments by 'clarifying' his remarks, but by then the damage had been done...and it's still going and going and going. He should have just done what he and his party had been doing until he opened his trap, and that was stay out of it. But now (as you can see by the Democrat comments below), his own party is running from him over this, saying exactly what I've been saying about it. Here it is again, in case you missed it...Jeff Greene, Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate in Florida[BEGIN QUOTE]: "President Obama has this all wrong and I strongly oppose his support for building a mosque near Ground Zero...Freedom of religion might provide the right to build the mosque in the shadow of Ground Zero, but common sense and respect for those who lost their lives and loved ones gives sensible reason to build the mosque someplace else. President Obama had the chance to show leadership by calling on the mosque's supporters to find a more appropriate location." [END QUOTE]
IrishAndProud | Aug 16, 2010, 07:44 PM EDT
Riiiighht, seanny (waaaay down is Australia)...you know so much about the USA, from 10K miles away. The poll you cite supports me 100% in everything I've been saying about this matter, from my very first post: the question is not do they have a right to build there -- it's IS it right for them to build there. I'm one of the 70%, on both questions you cited. Nice try at triangulating the matter and making it sound like those who oppose this are only the 30%. Doesn't work that way.
CitizenWhy | Aug 16, 2010, 07:36 PM EDT
Ha, great! Republicans let Bush-the Saudis-Rupert Murdoch get away with a Wahabbi takeover of US mosques but they organize a lynch mob for a moderate mosque. Foreigners cannot understand that the loony right in the US wants a war between the West and Islam to hurry up the apocalypse. They rejoice in the idea of the destruction of a "morally corrupt" West, including the US, which will be OK once it is cleansed of science and humanism. Meanwhile the christian right has the highest adultery/divorce rate in the US.
seanomelbourne | Aug 16, 2010, 07:32 PM EDT
Their wheeling out their Jihadist/Sharia law wagon again. Scaremongering, marginalising American Muslims demonizing the president, deliberately misrepresenting what he said. 70% of Americans may not want the Muslim centre but it is interesting to note that 70% of Americans say they have the right to build at that site. The other 30% are the teaparty GOP bigots whingers.
IrishAndProud | Aug 16, 2010, 07:30 PM EDT
hollabackgurl, you're either deliberately missing the point, or you're so stupid you don't see it (either one is believeable, sadly). The Muslims in America are SEEKING TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE THEY CAN STONE WOMEN OR HOMOSEXUALS...and this mosque is just one more itsy-bitsy little stepping stone in that direction. They've already started enacting sharia law in ENGLAND; what the hell makes you think they'll stop (or BE stopped) short of that, here, eventually...especially since they have verbally, repeatedly stated that as their goal?
IrishAndProud | Aug 16, 2010, 07:26 PM EDT
(continued...) 3) from two Muslim women themselves (Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah, writing in the Ottawa Citizen, in an article titled 'Mischief in Manhattan): "So what gives Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf of the "Cordoba Initiative' and his cohorts the misplaced idea that they will increase tolerance for Muslims by brazenly displaying their own intolerance in this case? Do they not understand that building a mosque at Ground Zero is equivalent to permitting a Serbian Orthodox church near the killing fields of Srebrenica where 8,000 Muslim men and boys were slaughtered? There are many questions that we would like to ask. Questions about where the funding is coming from? If this mosque is being funded by Saudi sources, then it is an even bigger slap in the face of Americans, as nine of the jihadis in the Twin Tower calamity were Saudis. If Rauf is serious about building bridges, then he could have dedicated space in this so-called community centre to a church and synagogue, but he did not. We passed on this message to him through a mutual Saudi friend, but received no answer. He could have proposed a memorial to the 9/11 dead with a denouncement of the doctrine of armed jihad, but he chose not to..." Yeah, Dennis...'Republican bigotry.' Yeah, that must be all it is. HA HA HA HA HA HAAAAAAA!
IrishAndProud | Aug 16, 2010, 07:25 PM EDT
Here's some more 'Republican bigotry' for you, Dennis (as if nearly 3,000 dead people at the hands of Islam wasn't enough in itself). Firstly: "President Obama has this all wrong and I strongly oppose his support for building a mosque near Ground Zero...Freedom of religion might provide the right to build the mosque in the shadow of Ground Zero, but common sense and respect for those who lost their lives and loved ones gives sensible reason to build the mosque someplace else. President Obama had the chance to show leadership by calling on the mosque's supporters to find a more appropriate location." That's a direct quote from Jeff Greene, DEMOCRATIC candidate for U.S. Senate in Florida. 2) From the Associated Press: "The Senate's top Democrat says a mosque should not be built near the site of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. Sen. Harry Reid of Nevada on Monday became the highest profile Democrat to break with President Barack Obama, who on Friday backed the right for the developers to build a mosque near ground zero. In a statement, Reid said the first amendment protects freedom of religion and he respects that, but the mosque should be built somewhere else. Critics have said the location of the mosque is insensitive because the terrorists who struck were Islamic extremists." (continued, above...)
hancock | Aug 16, 2010, 06:34 PM EDT
Tell me again the Moslem countries that allow religous frredom to other religions? Even moderate countries? This is in your face tactics. I guess the Orange Order was right all along.
jamieLM | Aug 16, 2010, 06:15 PM EDT
Parents and Christisall are right. No one knows who's ultimately going to be meeting up in this rec.center/mosque. The Muslims don't care that grieving 9/11 families might find their bldg. offensive because of location. No Muslim country would tolerate a Christian bldg. being built anywhere on their soil. Saw on 60 Min. on Sunday how Turkey has been, and still is, busy stamping out Christianity wherever they find it and has closed down all Christian churches. Muslims in the US demand tolerance and sensitivity from Christians, but sensitivity toward Christians is certainly not one of their priorities. Btw, if Lutherans, for example, had been involved in 9/11, I'd be totally against a Lutheran-anything built there out of respect for 9/11 victims & families.
DennisQ | Aug 16, 2010, 06:05 PM EDT
McNabb, Republican bigotry is all over this. Anti-Muslim hysteria is the Southern Strategy of all southern strategies. Bush blamed the 9/11 attacks on the Iraqis, who had nothing at all to do with it. Their only connection was that they are Arabs and Muslims.
You seem to be arguing that Muslims should be allowed a separate but equal location for their Islamic Center. Correct me if I'm wrong here. If you think they shouldn't have the right to build on private property, what's your rationale?
Incidentally, I don't think that you've any right to derogate the "agenda" of the Muslims who want to build their center. If your rationale isn't bigotry, what is it?
madelane | Aug 16, 2010, 05:57 PM EDT
From what I keep hearing there is so much hate, that people can't see past their noses to reason. @patrick1945, your percentages are way off!! 7 to 8 people out of 10 are not agaist the Mosque, 2 blocks from Ground Zero. A good portion of the public do see reason, and that reason is; as a country we can't pick and choose who gets religious freedom, and who doesn't. Religious freedom is for all!! Not just for the right wing Christian few!! The people that wish to build the Islamic Community Center, did not attack us on 911, they are us. If I continue with the same mind set as all of you, then I should hate all men, for their intolerable treatment of women. And how about the Christian church and their treatment of the Native Americans in the boarding schools, do I have to hate all Christian churches for that one. Do you see what I mean. You can't blame all for the actions of a few. And considering the people that want to build the Community Center, are Americans, just as much as you are! If you take away their rights to worship, then who will be next? What group will you single out next, with your hate and ignorance. Personally, I don't follow any religion, I think it's all brainwashing, and full of hate. But I do believe in our Constitution, and that it was written for all of us. For you and your hate filled ignorant churches, for the Muslims with their misogynistic dogma, and for me to choose not to believe. When you take the right away from one group, all groups loose.
hollabackgurl | Aug 16, 2010, 05:56 PM EDT
The Muslim community in the U.S. doesn't stone women or hang homosexuals. It's nauseating listening to homophobes and religious bigots cite the abuses of other cultures as though they diminished their own.
McNabb1966 | Aug 16, 2010, 05:30 PM EDT
Apparently Harry Reid, the DEMOCRAT majority leader in the Senate, didn't read his talking points memo on this one. He has issued a statement saying that he "thinks that the mosque should be built some place else." Wow, never thought I'd be quoting him but the irrationality and dishonesty of the Left on this issue makes it necessary. Opposition to the building of Cordoba House at Ground Zero is neither a "GOP" issue nor does it imply a desire to restrict the free practice of the Islamic religion. This is not about opposing Islam but rather the questionable agenda of the group behind this particular project.
patrick1945 | Aug 16, 2010, 05:07 PM EDT
70% plus American are not members of the GOP. There must be a lot of Democrats included in that 70 per cent plus who don't like the idea of a Mosque at ground zero. That means 7 to 8 people out of 10 in America don't want a ground zero Mosque. Probability higher per cent in New York and New York City.
IrishAndProud | Aug 16, 2010, 04:59 PM EDT
Yeah...what gives with 'gay rights' supporters gtting all bent out of shape when homosexual 'marrriage' merely gets prohibited by default, like by the voters in California -- and yet when SHARIA law (which openly advocates the BEATING and KILLING of homosexuals), wishes to expand its presence in NYC, they're all of a sudden all for it? Talk about deadly inconsistency...
2BorNot2B | Aug 16, 2010, 04:16 PM EDT
I'm convinced the liberal NY left, of which Bloomberg is a prominent member, must have a death wish. This is an ongoing story. From the times of the Old Testament we hear God Himself complain about 'His own chosen people' calling them "a stiff necked people" and sending upon them trial after heavy trial to help them turn away from their rebelliousness; yet all but very few of them ever ended up learning the lessons. As a result their lot never seemed to improve. They wondered in the desert for 40 years on a trek that should have taken anybody else less than a week! Previous to that they kept going from slavery, to opression, to plagues, to extermination by the Romans, to diaspora, and eventually back again to extermination by Hitler.-- This, again, must be one of those 'stiff-necked' moments, since it is the left, whose numbers are top-heavy with Jews; albeit non-religious, but definitely unheeding of the coming storm by working against what should be the preservation of their own race (They'd rather guide themselves by the light of Alinsky, whose ideas are fueling the philosophy of the present admin, aided by Axelrod, Emanuel, Sunstein, Feinberg, Bloom etc. who hold the prominent posts that promote and enforce those ideas). -- So it's the libs who are intent on giving a pass and a trophy to the muslims -by kow-towing to the buildig of a mosque yards away from Ground Zero- unheeding of the fact that these are the very people who want to exterminate them!! - Didn't they learn anything from Hitler and the death camps? -- And btw, along with lib-Jews so are the libgays whose fate shall be quite predictable when through their appeasement and stupidity sharia is implanted as the law of the land.
FastEddy | Aug 16, 2010, 03:50 PM EDT
Those women readers here will be overjoyed to know that women will be completely from this proposed Muslim Men's Club in lower Manhattan. There apparently will be some segregated facilities within the Club for those of the feminine persuasion, but appropriate dress codes will be strictly enforced so no one can tell. The entrances to these female segregation areas will be either from the alley or by a discrete but tasteful side door entrance, out of sight of the strictly male membership. (BTW: Those of a homosexual enlightenment will be dealt with in the alley as well.)
Scrivner | Aug 16, 2010, 03:26 PM EDT
For followers of a religon that takes such umbrage at cartoons that critize their extremist members, they have no concept of how offensive this Cordova Center is. A "right" to do something does not mean that it "should" be done.
crny925 | Aug 16, 2010, 02:55 PM EDT
Not all Irish people think the way of this biased author... It's one opinion and you know what they say about opinions... NYC has been the biggest target for these Islamic Radical Extremists and it will be hit again; undoubtedly. The 'sleepers' aka 'enemies within' will be hiding in that mosque or as you'll have it, cultural center... do you really believe they'll allow anyone other than Muslims in it? Or that anyone would want to be in it for that matter??? Get a grip... while you live in your fantasy world!!!
IrishAndProud | Aug 16, 2010, 02:52 PM EDT
Apparently YOU, 1661996usmc, have to protect the Obamanik Democrats -- because SOMEONE sure does, at the rate they're abandoning him over this latest blunder. And why would that be? Could it just possibly be because this thing goes a wee bit beyond the feckless, weak GOP? You may look at a mosque near Ground Zero and see only 'Republicans' holding it up, sir; I actually see the families of those nearly 3,000 9/11 victims, getting spat upon by the Sharia Islamists whom you love and support (right along with Hamas -- sweet, loving people that they are -- who are also standing alongside Barack Hussein Obama on this matter). How about grow a pair, and quit hiding behind 'the Republicans' as if they're the agitators here, and not Islam?
JoePatAl | Aug 16, 2010, 02:48 PM EDT
When I, and any other person, am finally allowed to freely visit 'mekka' then I guess it will be OK for a 'mosk' to be built near Ground Zero. But until that time comes, then that structure hosted by the worst religion ever should nto be allowed.
patrick1945 | Aug 16, 2010, 02:15 PM EDT
Will Women Rights Groups, Homosexual Groups and Jewish Groups be allowed to use this Cultural Center. We will see then who are intolerant and bigots. Why the need to build a Mosque at ground zero when if you built a few blocks away you could gain respect and cooperation from non-Muslims in the future. This Mosque will not help the cause of moderate Muslims in America. Al Qaeda has publicly endorsed the building of this Mosque. Will they allow a Christian Church and a Jewish Temple in the Cultural Center? Lets represent all the people who died on 9/11.
BurrRobson | Aug 16, 2010, 02:00 PM EDT
I think the author is biased and writing distortions. This has nothing whatsoever to do with racism or lynch mobs supported by the GOP. I am surprised there are Kool Aid drinkers in Ireland, too, and now wish not to visit your country again. Shame on you. I had a rule when raising my children that fun is NOT fun if the other party doesn't like it. And in this case 'honoring' diversity by building this mosque is not honoring if the other party is hurt. And the families of the victims are indeed hurt by the idea. What's the big deal about moving it 1/2 mile away? Are they honoring or shoving it down the survivors' throats? Shame on you for this article.
irishamerica46 | Aug 16, 2010, 01:10 PM EDT
It is about location and those that say otherwise are wrong. Just build it elsewhere in the city and the controvery will end. Except if people like the author of this piece keep it aflame!
MaryM232 | Aug 16, 2010, 11:35 AM EDT
Hogwash.. this isn't about religious freedom, nor are the protesters seeking to deny Muslims their right to practice their religion, there are more than 100 mosques in New York city alone. This is about the location, which not only over looks Ground Zero, it's a part of Ground Zero. Parts of the planes crashed through the very building that the Cordoba Institute wishes to tear down and build his mosque "community" center, a corpse and body fragments were found on the site. The protesters and the vast majority of the American citizenry, black, brown and white demand sensitivity be shown to them, their feelings on the subject. They've asked that the institute look for another location, that is all. Are you aware that this same Cordoba institute initially demanded their mosque "community" center be installed at the Ground Zero memorial? That they have been a part of holding up the construction of any memorial to the victims? Are you aware that the Canadian Muslim Congress has released a statement, and two members of that congress Raheel Raza and Tarek Fatah, appeared on US television and stated that what Rauf (the imam) is doing is perfectly clear, and it has nothing to do with tolerance. “We Muslims know the idea behind the Ground Zero mosque is meant to be a deliberate provocation to thumb our noses at the infidel,” Raza and Fatah wrote recently in the Ottawa Citizen.
1661996usmc | Aug 16, 2010, 11:22 AM EDT
Aparently PARENTS has to protect the GOP. They have to find a way to blame the President no matter what he does. The fact remains that there is the same protection for "White Anglo Saxon Protestants" as there should be for Jews, Catholics and Atheists. Maybe people should read the history of bigotry and what it has cost in lives of Americans to protect our right to Religous Freedom.
BigGuns | Aug 16, 2010, 11:10 AM EDT
Wake up!!!! Islam wants to convert the world and eliminate those who do not convert.
Parents | Aug 16, 2010, 10:56 AM EDT
This author needs to do some research. His simplistic view and blame on GOP is all wrong and exactly the kind of thinking they are counting on and hoping for. It isn't about religion although this religion is all about killing, even their own children or any woman who steps out of line. Do you have any idea what they really think of american women? Go and do some research and then write another article, maybe you will have learned something.
appalachian | Aug 16, 2010, 10:56 AM EDT
Just wait until the "Green Sod" is being used as the propaganda platform for Islamic Terror- which I see by your remarks that it ALREADY IS !!!
JamesMurphy | Aug 16, 2010, 10:51 AM EDT
Dear Mayoman, You ask what is to be gained by deriding innocent people? Answer; absolutely nothing. But, then, the ignorant will always be with us.
hollabackgurl | Aug 16, 2010, 10:51 AM EDT
You expect us to believe that this "has nothing to do with freedom of religion" when you call Muslims "muzzies"? And your screenname is Christisall?
Christisall | Aug 16, 2010, 10:50 AM EDT
Once this happens at or near ground zero, it's all over for America. We are slowly becoming muzzies and they ar patiently waiting for it to happen. . .
baldon73 | Aug 16, 2010, 10:49 AM EDT
It doesn't help that one of the imams promoting this "Cultural Center" has been linked to Radical muslim groups such as Hamas. And as for restricting religion,that has happened MANY times in Our history- Mormons not allowed to practice Polygamy,and had laws,much like the Penal Laws in Ireland enacted against them. You will find that people aren't against having the Center- only it's location. The fact that mosques were used to plan the attacks on the Towers doesn't help it's case either.
Christisall | Aug 16, 2010, 10:49 AM EDT
This has nothing to do with freedom of religion. There are hundreds of mosques in NY where muzzies pray and worship. This has everything to do with respecting and honoring the dead and their grieving families. Get this straight.
DLW12183 | Aug 16, 2010, 10:48 AM EDT
Although I would agree that they have the right (even if I don't agree it is the correct or smart thing to do) this is not an exclusive GOP issue but those who are vocal (outside of politics) include as many liberal democrats. How many Irish firefighters in NY do you thing support this? You are way off labeling this as GOP Distrust of Muslims!!!
mayoman | Aug 16, 2010, 10:26 AM EDT
Your absolutely right, Cahir. And I thank you for your rational arguments and your courage in the face of the hysteria that the bigots are now creating over this issue. Isn't it curious that the same right-wingers that argue for a "traditionalist" interpretaion of the Constitution are now the very ones that are so vocal in denying religious tolerance for Muslims. A freedom that is ensured by the Constitution. Would the critics of the Muslim cultural center be so vehement in their outrage if this issue involved people of another faith; say Catholics, Jews, or Protestants? Obviously not. After 9/11 President Bush, who will never be mistaken for a liberal, asked the public to refrain from any display of anger or prejudice against our fellow Muslim Americans. They were not terrorists, he reminded us, and simply because they are Muslims, they should not be confused with the criminals that attacked us. A neo-conservative President said that. So please tell me: why are the Tea Baggers and the other right-wing fanatics now embracing bigotry? Why are they against our own Constitution and Bill of Rights? And what is to be gained by deriding innocent people?
MarthaEllen | Aug 16, 2010, 10:25 AM EDT
A very sad opinion by you Mr. O'Doherty, but I respect your right to write it; just as I respect the GOP, The Tea Party, or anyone else to express their view. I pray that you are right, but somehow doubt that you are.
Parents | Aug 16, 2010, 10:24 AM EDT
One minute it is a mosque, all about religion and the next it's a rec centre. We don't know what it is, do we? A religious sect that reports 18,000 in their coffers is now building something worth millions and millions. Where is the money coming from? We have no idea what the agenda of this building is and no idea where the money is coming from. It's insensitive, arrogant, and controversial which they knew it would be. They were expecting this backlash, it's all part of the plan to push people as far as they can. People are not blindly against this, they have listened to this Imam's words, very disturbing. They practice "honor killings" where they murder their own children and many would like Sharia law here as well. Wasn't it this Imam who said it would be good for the US?? They are well aware that the US states "freedom of religion", so naturally everything they do is under this banner. They are testing to see just how far they can go with this and who will support it.
hollabackgurl | Aug 16, 2010, 10:23 AM EDT
People who talk about this center as a voictory parade for Al Qaeda are total cranks. It's an Islamic YMCA for moderate practitioners, it's not a bomb making school for jihadasts. Get a grip and stop being such insulting, obvious bigots.
Madeleine | Aug 16, 2010, 10:09 AM EDT
I don't know where in NY you are but this is a bipartisan gripe, not a Republican thing, same as the Tea Party, they are from both sides of the aisle. The immigrants you referred to are just opening the doors for a North America Union and no borders, and yes, that would ruin our country, we don't want that, give them legal papers a few thousand at a time and bring them in legally so they are documented and not keeping th eborders open for the super highways to coem through in a N American Union. When we don't want something we protest as they do in free countries, we don't shoot people down or bomb them just to make a point, we now have bombers all over the place, we never had that before the Muslims came in here, the Times square bomber, the fort hood shooter and several other incidents that were caught in time. We dont' know who the good guys are, some of these muslims terrorists were born here, we have many terrorist cells in this country. No one cares about their religion but its not just a religion, their countries are run by their religion, and their religious laws, Sharia law, we are not used to seeing women with their noses cut off on the cover of Time magazine, we don't want that here, who would? They built a Mosque in Shanksville Pa. where the jet plane carrying passengers and terrorists went down on 9-11, they built this mosque right on that spot, and now ground zero, what a coincidence.
Adoptsalot | Aug 16, 2010, 09:53 AM EDT
I am not sure why I C continues to allow this author to contribute such inflamatory, false and dangerous garbage. 'GOP distrust of Muslims reaches boiling point'...GOP?? Really?? GOP?? "In America it seems there's no problem, no matter how complex or intractable, that can't be solved by a braying lynch mob"... Lynch mobs...are you insane? 'Critics of the plan have been saber rattling'..sabor rattling???.. you inventive little twit..I guess that's what you do when you lack real writing skills and need to make things up in order to get an article out on time or make the point you want. This author is a raging idiot. Down come two towers, thousands of lives, and several city blocks absolutely destroyed. And, at that site, possibly the largest mosque in America i to be built. How is that not giving al Qaeda exactly what they wanted?
vincem13 | Aug 16, 2010, 09:22 AM EDT
Dear Mr. O'Doherty: When you began writing, did you take an oath to omit the truth whenever it didn't favor liberals/socialists and tyrants? The FULL name of this "concept" is the Cordoba Project. I know it may require thinking (sorry if it hurts), but a quick study of the meaning of Cordoba to Muslims brings us this: When the muslims conquered Spain, they "rubbed the infidels noses in it" by building a Grand Mosque on the site of what been a Catholic Cathedral. Likewise, when they conquered Jerusalem, they constructed a Grand Mosque on the Temple Mount, the site of Solomon's temple. Do you sense a pattern here, Sir? With all the real estate and development opportunities available in the Greater New York area, it stretches coincidence past the breaking point that the ONE place the Imam finds to build is...Ground Zero. Oh, and by the way, I'm not a republican.
McNabb1966 | Aug 16, 2010, 02:55 AM EDT
It's a triumphalist Islamic theme park that just has to be built at Ground Zero, correct Cahir? NYC is a big place...and it's just a coincidence that they want to build it there? You've obviously abandoned all journalistic integrity but maybe you could attempt to apply some intellectual honesty to this topic, at least. Your problem (well, one of them, anyway) is that you're assuming (or pretending to assume for your own satisfaction) that this is a "GOP" issue. Better check your "facts" again, pal. This goes beyond political parties and ideologies. Muslims are not being denied their freedom of religion. In fact, you yourself are arguing that "it's not really a mosque, it's a cultural center." So the people of New York don't want an Islamic rec center at Ground Zero. Where's the sensitivity to their feelings? And for that matter, why does this situation outrage you more than the myriad of human rights violations that take place every day in many Islamic countries? Can we get a Christian cathedral/theme park in Saudi Arabia? But then, of course, acknowledging those issues would distract you from your mindless, illogical diatribes against the people of this country whom you hate.
IrishAndProud | Aug 16, 2010, 01:40 AM EDT
It's all of the above, olovely, and then some (except for that stupid 'racist' charge). There IS no 'month before that, it was.' They are ALL still CURRENT gripes, according to EVERY poll. Obama's done bad things, one by one, one after the other, and each one of them solidly against mass public opinion -- which has had quite a devastating, cumulative effect on his standing with the public, in case you hadn't noticed in your bubble-world bunker, there. And your attitude (mocking, taunting and baiting the majority of voters) typifies the condescention that is utterly slaughtering Obama politically, now (btw olovely, Obama's of mixed race, not black. His mom was as white as yours). Come on, olovely...is that all you've got? You seem a bit defensive.
hancock | Aug 16, 2010, 12:29 AM EDT
Can Christians or Jews worship freely in the major Moslem countries in the world?
olovely | Aug 15, 2010, 11:18 PM EDT
There isn't a shade of difference between George W Bush's attitude to the Muslim world and Barack Obama's. Those teabaggers are just doing what the GOP tells them. Last week it was them evil illegals ruining THEIR America! The month before that it was the gays ruining THEIR America! The month before it was Health care ruining THEIR America! The month before that it was the gummint wasting money on unemployment. The month before that it was the gummint wasting money on jobs creation and bailouts. Before that it was a Black Man in THEIR WHITE House. What a bunch of cry babies! The GOP think they can ride the Islamophobia all the way to a Senate majority. That's what this is really all about.
IrishAndProud | Aug 15, 2010, 08:44 PM EDT
"President Obama has this all wrong and I strongly oppose his support for building a mosque near Ground Zero...Freedom of religion might provide the right to build the mosque in the shadow of Ground Zero, but common sense and respect for those who lost their lives and loved ones gives sensible reason to build the mosque someplace else. President Obama had the chance to show leadership by calling on the mosque's supporters to find a more appropriate location." -- quote from Jeff Greene, Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate, in Florida (but...but...Cahir O'Dougherty says it's the REPUBS who've made muslims the enemy...uh...never mind 9/11...)
IrishAndProud | Aug 15, 2010, 08:37 PM EDT
Here's another one for you, Cahir...would you unequivocally support a major, six-story Protestant Church being constructed just two blocks from the site of the Bloody Sunday murders, named 'Ulster House?' And we're talkng about 'only' fourteen murders, there...instead of nearly three thousand.
IrishAndProud | Aug 15, 2010, 08:15 PM EDT
Well, Cahir, considering that Muslims murdered almost as many people in about 90 minutes as all of Ireland lost in 30 YEARS of the Troubles, you may have to pardon us not wanting a beacon of that same faith parking itself just two blocks from the scene of their crime -- the greatest mass murder on American soil, in American history. Perhaps if you were actually an American yourself, you might understand this a wee bit more (speaking of 'understanding,' and the like). Now watch -- that single last statement alone will probably get this whole post censored. Also of important note, Cahir: your entire article failed to mention what the very name of this new 'school' was to be: The Cordova House. Do you know the significance of that name? Cordova, Spain, is seen as the historic entry point for the Islamic invasion and conquest of Europe -- and now, not so symbolically, they want that same name at nearly the same place of mass slaughter of Americans. Naw...probably just coincidence, right? You should read Niall O'Dowd's column about Obama on this matter, Cahir. He's a lot closer to reality.
2BorNot2B | Aug 15, 2010, 07:35 PM EDT
OhveryLovely -- I have just received an email from the Vichy government and they are calling for your help in formulation an appeasement and eventual surrender letter to Adolph Hitler. -- Obviously you've never studied history, you don't live now in Europe and you don't particularly care if an iranian-type murderous theocracy/dictatorship, as the one now headed by the mullahs and that simian looking Ahmadinejad is imposed on this country. -- You know what is even more annoying than the m'effing mullas and their acolyte?: the über-PC, self-righteous, melifluously-unctuous and evolved-species tone those of your ilk put on when attempting to lecture whoever chances to disagree with your views. -- You need a one way ticket to iran, to observe, poll, and gather the opinion of the people who actualy live under those baboons, and in the process see how they receive your olovely progressive suggestions. Being a woman you are certain to be taken into account. -- Oh, and when you go take your muslim prez with you.
Ajreaper | Aug 15, 2010, 06:09 PM EDT
Why should anyone be surprised some take issue with this? How many Irish see the the Queen of Englands visit to Ireland to be wrong? People and governments for that matter can carry grudges far to long- our species has it's fault and this is one of them but generally cooler heads end up prevailing, as is the case here.
olovely | Aug 15, 2010, 05:57 PM EDT
Explain to me, jbernardg, why anyone would feel pain at the building of an Islamic center unless he believes that “Islam” - all of it- is the same entity that carried out 9/11? And assuming you can’t, tell me why it is not right for the builders of Cordoba House to ignore those objectors bigotry? (The comment below this one is as bigoted an example of Islamophobia as I've seen anywhere by the way. It aptly demonstrates the kind of "thinking" that's going on.
2BorNot2B | Aug 15, 2010, 05:47 PM EDT
The PC crowd won't be happy until 'sharia' is inserted into the Constitution, the smelly, bearded and turbaned troglodyte imams are in the halls of Congress and the Supreme Court dictating law, castrating women, and decreeing that all the ones that survive the process dress in those ugly black tents they call burkhas; stoning them to death if they get out of line if they refuse to service the husband, or after the minor inconvenience of getting raped; gassing and bombing Jews where they live and shop and, Oh pity... ridding society of all gays, yikes! -- Let's see who hollerBackchick complains to after the deed is done... tsk, tsk, no more PC dribble on whatever is left of the internet.-- But wait, there won't be any at all, the a-RABS have already managed to interdict Blackberries. Those nasty boys have a propensity for displacing the head from the shoulders of those who disobey them. -- Golly, can't wait for that time when those brutes bring about that little piece of heaven on earth! I've already gone in to be measured for a variety of exploding vests, and I've been shopping for a hookah and a large samovar to celebrate with whatever 72 'virgins' are alotted to me. Wish me luck, I've also been offered a post in the Banning of Deodorant Ministry.
plasticpaddy | Aug 15, 2010, 05:45 PM EDT
well said olovely, couldn't have put it better.
olovely | Aug 15, 2010, 05:26 PM EDT
Unless we are to treat all Muslims as being somehow complicit in the 9/11 attack, a guilt-by-association idea that is contrary to every principle of fairness, then any bar to the construction would be reprehensible. Making sinister allegations about the thinking behind this proposed center is too. We're not at war with Islam, but with the twisted ideology of Al Qaeda - President Bush said it, President Obama says it, and it's true. That's why it's spurious to compare it with the attack by Japan. Japan attacked the U.S. But the Muslim religion didn't attack the U.S. on 9/11. It was a group of psychopathic terrorists, who didn't just hijack planes to slaughter thousands in lower Manhattan, they hijacked their own religion.
jbernardg | Aug 15, 2010, 05:06 PM EDT
The First Amendment will quarantee their right to construct this building. It also guarantees our right to voice our objection, despite self righteous liberals like the author who call us a 'lynch mob'. (BTW, you might want to look at the derivation of that term before you call it an American thing!) If they were building a house of worship to service Muslims in the area, this would not be a major issue. But they are building the largest Islamic center in New York city steps away from Ground Zero and far away from where most Musims live. Why? New York is the most tolerant part of a nation that despite what the Irish may think, welcomes more LEGAL immigrants each year than any nation on earth. The fact this most tolerant city will not tolerate this building speaks volumes about 'the religion of peace'. This building will not be built. The government cannot stop. But the people can and will.
hollabackgurl | Aug 15, 2010, 03:49 PM EDT
When it's expedient, the GOP will bash gays, blacks, Latino's and now Muslims for every vote the can squeeze out of their frightened or ignorant base. What do you think the birther movement and the Tea Party and the No Mosque Here crowd are all about?
jamieLM | Aug 15, 2010, 01:28 PM EDT
Guess what! There are PLENTY of Democrats and independents in America who distrust Muslims. This is not just a one-party issue. Assigning all the distrust to the GOP is extremely narrow-minded and shows a definite prejudice. What people think and what they say publicly are often 2 different things. Everyone has to be so PC these days. Your constant GOP-bashing gets so tiring. Btw, the Democratic party isn't exactly a paragon of virtue, either. Why do you think there are so many of us who are independents???
olovely | Aug 15, 2010, 10:28 AM EDT
It doesn't take backbone to stand with a mob; it takes backbone to stand against one. Our ancestors knew that when they drafted the constitution. Nowadays we're inundated with lazy citizens who think democracy is just mob rule. This writer isn't avoiding confrontation he's tackling it head on instead of falling behind the crowd like macstwo.
macstwo | Aug 15, 2010, 10:23 AM EDT
It would seem to me after reading this article that it's author is an other product of parents and teachers whom want to appease everyone, thereby avoiding confrontation, it's another example of the WOOSING OF AMERICA, so capably led by that idiot in the oval office and his fellow left wing liberals. They just don't turn the other cheek, they offer the first and second one. Grow some backbone.