56 Comments

• eiriamach | Jun 03, 2012, 12:19 PM EDT

  Eamonn, thanks for the reply. I blame emotional trauma on both sides of the debate. To leave the religion that one has practiced for a lifetime and that one's ancestors defended for centuries is painful. So ex-Catholics lash out at the Church that put their children at risk and alienated them. On the other side are good people in pain because reporters are scrutinizing their Church, so they rush to defend it. One side argues that the facts in the news condemn church officials. Does the other side deal honestly with the facts? Look at the postings. I've researched some: 1) that the priests Cardinal Dolan paid to leave had already been prosecuted and posed no risk: not true! 2) that the HHS mandate includes abortion: not true! 3) that negative news about RCC is trumped up to eliminate church opposition to Obama's socialist agenda (or a "homosexual/ feminist agenda"): far-fetched--no evidence! Writers in the Commonweal series on religious liberty say that the bishops will lose and the loss will do harm: "This spirit of anxiety and confrontation, assertiveness and defensiveness, has increasingly animated the USCCB’s public stances, especially toward the Obama administration. It has now propelled the bishops into their ill-conceived and potentially self-defeating campaign to defend religious freedom" (Peter Steinfels). I agree with Steinfels that this *political* debate generates fierce emotion that keeps both sides from focusing on facts. FACTS are not attacks --my words "not true!" are about facts-- and name-calling is not argument. It's a minefield with no choice but to pick a way through.

• EamonnDublin | Jun 03, 2012, 09:46 AM EDT

  "EiriAmach" - I take your point..... however! ..... it impedes debate because once they have called you a racist or whatever, regardless of what you then say (or should I say "try to say", in verbal debate) they repeat the insult and add that there is no point talking to you because you are a racist - or whatever. Result: no debate. BTW, one only has to read various comments in various media to see that the more aggressive between left and right is normally the left. I had thought that this view is pretty well accepted at this stage. For example, have a glance at the "debates" about Catholicism: most of the "pro" comments stick to stating facts or views without insulting atheists or whatever, whereas a lot of the "con" comments simply spew out vile insults about the "evil" church and "wicked" Pope, etc. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• eiriamach | Jun 02, 2012, 11:19 AM EDT

  EamonnDublin, I don't understand the point of your complaint. (And I don't believe it is true, or that it's more true of the left than the right.) Everyone has an obligation NOT to mistake name-calling for argument. And name-calling (the logician's "ad hominem") is logically irrelevant, a fallacy of relevance. It's easy enough to ignore the name calling and focus on the argument, and if the name caller HAS NO argument, ignore the comment! I have to agree with you that "insult hurling" can be annoying, but I don't understand how it impedes "debate." Don't let it confuse you!

• EamonnDublin | Jun 01, 2012, 03:48 AM EDT

  "BulldogMania" - I think most people, such as myself, who hold more conservative, right wing, views, consider the opposite to what you say to be true - in that, surely, it is the left that immediately brands right wingers as "racists", homophobes", Islamophobes", etc., simply because the right seeks to put forward a point of view. Example: "I think Ireland has too many immigrants". Immediate response: "RACIST"! Or, "I don't really think single sex marriage should be allowed". Response: "Homophobe"! Instead of the foregoing, the response to the statements should not be an accusation, but should be a question:"Why"? Result - debate, rather than insult hurling. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• hollabackgurl | May 31, 2012, 10:41 PM EDT

  The US is not a theocracy. If your religion tells you it's a sin to eat pork, don't eat pork. Don't make a law so no one can eat pork. If your religion tells you certain homosexual acts are a sin, find a church that doesn't condemn you. Don't make a law so no one can have a gay marriage. But if you do want to live in a theocracy, move to Iran.

• 100thApefrom58 | May 31, 2012, 03:20 PM EDT

  What ..You don't understand the political correctness two edged sword ? @BulldogMania..lol ..the two edged sword is actually a "sickle" and "Hammer" the ol' slash and smash...You disagree with them and damage control is infinite in reach and scope. and yet acceptance is quite finite ,if not non corporeal at all , and only giving self serving lip service when "they" do.. Your contradictory political views ? Wow..That made Me think a little ..thanx.. It would be indicative of conflicting political views and not values as a whole ? beyond that ..could be time to examine Ye Ole' bean ? lol.. it's up to You to finish the view on out to a value, if it didn't fit the parameter..chop-chop..or ride the fence till the sliver's make You choose.. I don't want to personally ever; or my children -grandchildren to see overtly gay "antic's" in public, or "Hetero " tonsil examinations in the public library or other public area's..get a room people ! quit the miscreant militant mentality..people may find it easier to accept Your differences. leave the stereo type ludicrous lisp , and be heard, trying to out fem. Women won't help ..just looks obtuse ,weak ..animated for folly..They go out of their way to be sickening..daring You to say something , so they can call You intolerant...

• BulldogMania | May 31, 2012, 12:01 PM EDT

  Can anyone explain to me why you are labeled as intolerant if you don't agree with the policies of the radical liberal left. Has it ever occurred to them, that they might be the ones who are intolerant by not agreeing with the those on the other side of an issue? As an independent, I must confess that I enjoy the back and forth...it makes for great amusement, but sometimes I have to wonder why everyone that disagrees with the radicalized left is labeled as intolerant. I wonder what I am because sometimes I agree with them and sometimes I don't?

• Andrew007 | May 31, 2012, 10:16 AM EDT

  Part 2: God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, and so whilst human societies have changed drastically, He and His standards have NOT. God is as intolerant of sin today as He was 4000 years ago when the Hebrews were first given their Laws, but He wants to grant us mercy through us repenting of our evil ways, accepting the salvation offered through Jesus Christ, and humbly turning back to Him. The fact that those Christian churches which have remained righteous and haven’t watered down the Biblical message with liberal ideology are called “homophobic” and “bigoted” (especially by the self-serving ideologues who wish to justify their own shameful Godlessness and/or wickedness), is an indication of the extent to which truly unholy and Anti-Christian (i.e. “Christophobic”) attitudes have permeated liberal discourse in civil affairs. Indeed, it’s already being mooted in some quarters that “sexual liberty” should replace religious liberty, and even that the Churches should be FORCED to conduct homosexual marriages and hire homosexual staff!!! Be warned: this revolution in civil society, if not corrected, will – in conjunction with other major trends – overturn the very foundations of Western Christian Civilisation, and in time undermine all of the institutions we hold dear which we have inherited from our forbears … and just as with the Romans when they abandoned the principles that made their Republic great, I fear this will come to our immense cost ….

• Andrew007 | May 31, 2012, 10:15 AM EDT

  Whilst I'm repulsed and saddened by the merciless attitude displayed by Pr Worley and his profane preaching, and whilst I'm disappointed by the ignorance of the brave but foolish supporter, they are nonetheless correct in upholding Biblical standards of morality regarding sin in general and homosexual sin in particular. Unlike the author of this article, who apparently believes that God should be some sort of liberal Santa Claus with post modern liberal attitudes to human sexuality, the Bible CLEARLY shows that our Creator is a God Who has created high standards of morality for all Mankind to live by, and through the ancient Hebrew Laws and Prophets (reinforced by Jesus Christ and the Fathers of the Church) has informed us directly of what He expects, and the consequences of our proud rebellion and wickedness should we decide to reject Him and His Word.

• EamonnDublin | May 31, 2012, 09:36 AM EDT

  The post headed "BrianO", dated May 30, 6.22pm, is actually from ME - as signed! Don't blame me! Éamonn, Dublin.

• BrianO | May 31, 2012, 07:22 AM EDT

  Why would anyone want to do these things? Good question, I have to guess because it is foreign to me. These things are wanted to move the country further towards a communist/socialist form. Utopia is the goal.

• BrianO | May 30, 2012, 06:27 PM EDT

  if one group has more money just take it, seems a simple solution. I'm sure you are destitute after giving away your evil wealth. You have given your wealth away right? Nothing better to build up ones self esteem like a handout, waiting in line for what an organization deems is your fair share. I'm sure you suggest to your offspring to help with good intentions, strive to be the bottom, because the bottom is where all dignity comes from, do not strive to rise from the bottom and achieve that is undignified. Together in your group mediocrity you can survive and be subsidized by the evil few who unfairly worked hard and attained wealth and knowledge. These evil people with their ambition, won't mind being fleeced and will still make inroads into science, medicine, If the don't want to give willingly again just take it. What happens when there are no achievers left to steal from? Ask the Greeks.

• BrianO | May 30, 2012, 06:22 PM EDT

  Thank you, Eiriamach - I suggest you and I should go into business together, showing people how we can differ greatly in our opinions but still be nice and civil to one another. Loads of clients on this board! Well, if only they would LISTEN for a change! Best Wishes, Éamonn. P.S. We could call the business "Gerry and Ian, Inc."

• Gearoid4 | May 30, 2012, 06:13 PM EDT

  Marriage is a very unique institution that has survived social fads and mores for thousands of years. Every major global society, both religious and non religious, have recognized, that at it's core,it consists of the union of one man and one woman, which is open to procreation. This has remained constant over the centuries, with exceptional variations on the theme, such as polygamous practices in certain regions. Marriage of itself, is not a universal right that can be granted whimsically to all who desire it. It constitutes the bedrock of society in it's long accepted form, which has nourished the mutual love of husbands and wives and their families and benefited wider society in general.

• eiriamach | May 30, 2012, 03:29 PM EDT

  BrianO, why do you think ANYONE would want to do these things-- "the Gay issues are being used by the far left to destroy the family unit, religion, and the current makeup of society, not to help the average gay person"? We on the left have families we cherish, some of us are married, we work at keeping relationships strong, and at least some of us, if not most, also practice some religion. Get a grip-- no one on the left is trying to tear down anything of value from our shared traditions, from the past that you cling to. But we can strengthen our sense of community and human dignity by extending health care, education, financial opportunities, social institutions like marriage, and more, equally to everyone! How dignified does it seem to you that the wealthiest 20% of Americans control more of our national wealth than the other 80% combined? How dignified is it for one group, especially if it is the majority, to use its political power to deny to any other group the same civil rights it enjoys?

• eiriamach | May 30, 2012, 02:31 PM EDT

  Sure Eamonn, no problemo: Mea MAXIMA culpa, agus Gabh mo mhíle leithscéal. As Machiavelli once said, it's easy to apologize; it costs nothing. I'd rather apologize afterward than stand on line beforehand, waiting to beg for permission to speak! (paraphrased). In my youth, I once worked with a speakers' panel of Muslim women from various places in the Middle East. I learned about their lives, their strategies for change, and the obstacles they face. They made me aware how long change takes in a traditional society. So I do not simply denounce the atrocities of Islam because I remember those who are --no doubt still --working to end the honor killings and pedophile marriages, to educate their daughters, etc. When I'm tempted simply to condemn, it's because I see an absolute refusal to consider change. Now, in the 'States, I think we have that situation-- trad religions in adversarial relation to a rapidly changing civil society that sometimes seems to follow the spirit of the Gospel better than the traditional churches. This environment calls for a diverse strategy. Anam gach n-aon ar a ghualainn féin, beireadh leis nó fágadh.

• Portia777 | May 30, 2012, 09:49 AM EDT

  "The only way the majority of heterosexual North Carolinians could secure their marriages was to prevent their gay neighbors from contracting their own, apparently." Where is the logic in that? Who is the contract with? the church and court corporations. Otherwise you cannot contract. Why do men and women feel they have to get someone else to marry them? That is insane. It is only the business of those involved, so why feed your money and give your power away in an UNLAWFUL contract. people need to study contract law. Because something is legal, does not make it lawful either and law is NOT Justice either. I wish people would wake to the scam.

• hollabackgurl | May 30, 2012, 09:32 AM EDT

  Again you say gay people are "being used by the far left to destroy the family unit, religion, and the current makeup of society..." But you do not say HOW. A thing is not so because you say it is so. We need proof of your claims. How do gay couples contracting their own legal unions constitute an "attack" on anyone else's marriage, BrianO? Your rhetoric is regrettable and unconvincing.

• BrianO | May 30, 2012, 09:28 AM EDT

  My rhetoric? Have you read any of these O'Doherty articles? everyone attacks, paints with the broadest of brushes, describes all religious as zealot homicidal nazis. Not much room for negotiation there. I know how you would describe me, I know how I would be vilified, you would however be wrong. You can achieve goals in many ways, the best is when all sides are made whole. I also believe the Gay issues are being used by the far left to destroy the family unit, religion, and the current makeup of society, not to help the average gay person. If you believe in the communist model and that is what you are fighting for so be it. If you are striving for happiness it is in your power to attain it today.

• EamonnDublin | May 30, 2012, 04:16 AM EDT

  EiriAmach, You call that an apology? On your knees, boy! Now, repeat after me: "Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea MAXIMA culpa! Now, doesn't THAT feel much better! You could also throw in "míle" after the "Gabh mo" bit! By the way, I agree that there is "plenty of negative Vatican news" - what I should like to see is just a teenchy bit of negative Muslim news reported. Such as "honour" killings (murders), acid disfigurement, forced marriages of very young girls to old men, beheadings for "adultery" (where are all the feminists gone?) (CiaraSexy? ByTheBay?), etc. Best Wishes, Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• hollabackgurl | May 29, 2012, 06:17 PM EDT

  How do gay couples contracting their own legal unions constitute an "attack" on anyone else's marriage, BrianO? Your rhetoric is regrettable and unconvincing.

• eiriamach | May 29, 2012, 04:54 PM EDT

  My last reply did not go through, so I'll try again. Eamonn, if you were to unbend just a little further from the right, you'd admit that no word in this opinion piece is critical of Catholics as such. I'd expect even-handedness about how institutional religions affect our lives when American news is not dominated by the USCCB spearheading political campaigns against marginalized groups (we Americans are sensitive about stigmatizing groups). IC is obviously not searching out bad press on RCC; there's plenty of negative Vatican news that it ignores altogether. In these dark days for institutional religions, I'd say it does a fair job. And yes, you did say "almost" without exception. Mea culpa. Gabh mo leithscéal.

• eiriamach | May 29, 2012, 04:39 PM EDT

  Awww Eamonn, if you were to unbend just a little further from the right, you'd admit that O'Doherty has not written any word critical of RCC in this *opinion* piece. We could expect even-handedness about how institutional religions affect our lives if the USCCB were not dominating US news by spearheading conservative political campaigns against marginalized groups. IC writers are obviously not searching out negative press about RCC because there's plenty of embarrassing Vatican news that it ignores altogether. In these dark days for institutional religions, it does a fair job while still catering to its audience's need to know and discuss to arrive at their own opinions. And yes, you did say "almost" without exception. Mea culpa. Gabh mo leithscéal!

• EamonnDublin | May 29, 2012, 10:43 AM EDT

  Come on, EiriAmach! You're slipping! Have another read of my post - where it clearly states "almost without a single exception". Now, apologies gratefully accepted! Oh, and by the way, as we are on the subject of negativity about religions (plural), can I mention "honour" killings (murders), beheadings, acid disfigurement, forced marriages of very young girls to old men, etc? Now, I expect we'll see the usual, "well Catholics do this, that and the other". Yes, we KNOW .... because Irish Central keeps drumming it in - that's my whole point! Best Wishes, Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• eiriamach | May 29, 2012, 09:56 AM EDT

  Eamonn, your complaint is like many others about the RCC being the ONLY religion mentioned in negative news articles and opinion blogs on IC. But notice that this opinion piece by Doherty is about a Baptist preacher and his parishioners, not about a Catholic priest. I'd expect you to say, "Finally! Some negative news about a Protestant church!" IC can't seem to satisfy its critics, whatever its writers do. Let's be realistic: the news for RCC and some Protestant churches IS negative! It's also troubling for many people. IC provides a forum for discussion, and that can only help anyone still beset with reactions to the sex abuse scandal, the treatment of nuns, USCCB opposition to LGBT civil rights, etc.

• eiriamach | May 29, 2012, 09:41 AM EDT

  Well, Eamonn, I was just now thinking that Irish Central seems to be doing its propaganda bit *for* the Vatican by not printing a single word about the ouster of the Vatican Bank director, the arrest of the pope's butler, the leak of embarrassing private correspondence with the Vatican.... The list goes on. These items are news in all the newspapers of the world, discussed around the Internet, yet IC is silent about them. Hummmm, wonder why.... If the news is relevant to IC visitors, it's here. I guess none of us has a Vatican Bank account!

• EamonnDublin | May 29, 2012, 03:28 AM EDT

  Is "Irish Central" a newspaper, or is it an anti-Catholic propaganda machine? It certainly is weighed down with articles about the Catholic church, and, almost without a single exception, attacking it. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• BrianO | May 28, 2012, 10:55 PM EDT

  Couldn't agree more with the founders. How does attacking traditional marriage help your cause? I wish all people happiness, the problem lies in how the gay lobby is used to promote the far left anti capitalist policies, which ironically would leave all groups unprotected by the aforementioned documents. If you want an equal status as what is thought of today as traditional marriage you need to start by not attacking. The truth is anything that can be used to attack the founding of the nation, traditions, religion, by the left will be used. Look at the articles by O'Doherty everyone a left wing propaganda piece, pro Obama, using the gay community as cover.

• SheilaSB | May 28, 2012, 10:53 PM EDT

  The so-called conservative Christians apparently never read or heard about Christ's teaching love and forgiveness. One may not approve of a person's actions or lifestyle, but a Christian still is supposed to love the person in spite of what may be perceived as faults or shortcomings.

• hollabackgurl | May 28, 2012, 08:54 PM EDT

  You can disagree with same sex marriage, you can dislike or disapprove of gay people, you can point to a book written in the Middle East by people who make Al Qaeda look progressive, you can stomp your feet and you can do the foxtrot if you like - what you cannot do is unwrite the United States Declaration of Independence, BRIANO. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Stop standing in the way of your neighbors happiness.

• BrianO | May 28, 2012, 07:47 PM EDT

  Sec. 6. Marriage. Marriage between one man and one woman is the only domestic legal union that shall be valid or recognized in this State. This section does not prohibit a private party from entering into contracts with another private party; nor does this section prohibit courts from adjudicating the rights of private parties pursuant to such contracts.---- Just thought I would find the amendment, This is to amend THE STATE constitution, not the U.S. Constitution. It doesn't create new law, it is not my state, In my state the same sex marriage act was declared by a judge. All that being said, my point on this very overstated argument, IS that if you dis-agree with the left, they will demonize you, Conservatives are not extreme unless compared to the current liberal left where I would agree the gap between the views is extreme.

• eiriamach | May 28, 2012, 06:37 PM EDT

  BrianO, why should Pastor Worley's behavior be newsworthy when he seems like a "fringe" character to you? Because the civil rights of North Carolinians are increasingly threatened by his kind of politics. By constitutional amendment, North Carolina has banned not only same-sex marriage, but "legal domestic unions" for everyone. This ban unleashes a mess of problems for couples whose domestic partnerships, child-custody arrangements, wills and insurance contracts, etc., have had legal recognition until now. The North Carolina legislature also voted to pass a forced ultrasound bill, though Democrat Governor Bev Perdue vetoed it and called it “a dangerous intrusion into the confidential relationship that exists between women and their doctors.” North Carolinians, apparently, want to keep government small and out of personal lives-- but only out of the personal lives of heterosexual, Christian, conservative males! The NC state government is all over the personal lives of citizens who are women or gay or co-habitating without benefit of marriage... (and all the other usual suspects).

• BrianO | May 28, 2012, 05:42 PM EDT

  eiiramach, the worleys of the world are the outer fringe, not representative of most church or religious groups who are constantly doing much good and charitable works. My pointing out how even the looney fringe groups are exaggerated by your leftist to paint all religious groups as genocidal phscopaths. So rant as you will, I believe the constitution is your worst enemy because it applies equally to all citizens, not just one side or the other.

• JudyStinger | May 28, 2012, 04:18 PM EDT

  I don't consider myself a religious person but rather a faithful person. Faithful to the word of God and I will never apologize for that. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the way the chose to believe. One wonders why those who don't agree with anything Christian only attack. We are all entitled to believe and practice our faith the way we chose to do it. Christian bashing is wearing a little thin.

• occassio | May 28, 2012, 02:57 PM EDT

  In its true form, religion has been a salve for the poor, the distressed, the downtrodden and the forgotten. Religion has been a spiritual home where we find warmth and welcome, inclusion and acceptance. However, an objective read into history will prove that for many, religion has been the path to power and wealth, the bastion of ultra-conservatism and ingress to condemnation and intolerance. Witch burning, the Inquisition, the Crusades, pardons and indulgences for the wealthy and politically powerful, exclusion of minorities and the poor: All these are historical facts, not fancy created by liberals who don’t understand the real meaning of Christianity and who distort the Word of God. PiperMac52 If you would take some time to read history, you would learn that homosexuality was practiced in many civilizations, not as “a disordered and unnatural condition” vis-à-vis St. Augustine and others, but as normal and natural and widely accepted in Roman and Greek cultures both of which were religious. Whether it’s Genesis, Leviticus, Jude, et. al., the interpretations/re-interpretations/mis-interpretations of homosexuality derive more from how the original texts in Hebrew (Old Testament) and Greek (New Testament) may have been translated and from the politics of power. These civilizations didn’t die out from homosexuality but from Imperial incompetence, war, Christianity, greed, decay, corruption, and economics. Homosexuality isn’t even in the ranking!

• occassio | May 28, 2012, 02:43 PM EDT

  Jamthecat Please! Using Communism as the root of all evil is simplistic and hyperbole. On the other hand, to believe that the Tea Party are, “just an angry group of voters with strong beliefs” would be to underestimate their negative effect on government and the financial wherewithal they have to have brought our political system to virtual polarization and stand-still. However, they are not, “traitors to everything this country stands for”. While many in the Tea Party have (and voice) valid concerns, many more have used its burgeoning influence as a platform for racism and hate. Thus, back to the original theme of these postings – homosexuality and the disturbing, hateful backlash and the use of religion as a virtuous basis for discrimination.

• eiriamach | May 28, 2012, 02:05 PM EDT

  "Stand up for the Constitution," BrianO? What the heck do you think I've been doing-- urging people to read the 14th Amendment, to consider every right and liberty that the Constitution reserves to the people as premised on equal treatment of ALL under the law? The Constitution gives Worley and all other bigots, as repugnant as their speech is, freedom of self-expression, and I fully support his right to pour the putrefaction of his soul into the ears of anyone careless enough to stay within earshot. I support the right of Card. Dolan and crew at the USCCB to thrust on the public their medieval notions of clerical prerogative under the guise of First Amendment liberty. Make no mistake, however; I will exercise the same right to express my views as the likes of Worley and Fred Phelps have done, despite the irrelevant snidery of Chilla and the attempts of Georgieboy and his likes to silence views from the left. If the Worleys are a "fringe group," it's because enough people speak out against their ilk.

• ChillaKilla | May 28, 2012, 01:44 PM EDT

  This is rich folks... as 'the church lady' of SNL used to say: "How conveeeenient!"We are gifted with the sage observation of an arden advocate of the 'rainbow cause,' if not a rainbow herself.... The tale goes that in a 'casual visit' to a Catholic Church she met with a 'serendipitous event' that confirmed her dark suspicions to the effect that Catholics engage in 'politicking from the pulpit!'.... Holy Gaia, Blessed Earth Mother!! She heard "lies" about the HHS mandate coming from the Bishop's letter!!.... And I think to myself.. wasn't the HHS mandate itself composed of unvarnished LIES! .. Don't we remember that no one knew [except for the lawyers hired to equivocate, convolute and lie throughout the entire text] what was written in the 2700 pages?... Don't we remember Pelosi saying: "Let's pass the Bill so we can find out what's in it!"... All the while the bill was rammed through without a single Republican vote! This due to the glaring inconsistencies, trickery and hidden mandates meant to nullify the deals worked out with the Blue-dog democrats to get them to sign on? But I digress....Sure, those 'wascally' Bishops lie! They have no right to defend their beliefs against the mandates of a political animal who, for his own political agenda wants to dictate what the CC should believe and teach....And surely, the Holy Spirit was working over time to have this rainbow woman walk in exactly as those sneaky guys were trying to get away with murder!

• BrianO | May 28, 2012, 12:35 PM EDT

  would you say he was a fringe group? the fencing in, was this persons over the top way of saying they couldn't reproduce. It did not say to gas them and put them in an oven. You and your ilk are much closer to the Gestapo than you will admit. Stand up for the constitution and protect yourself from enemies foreign and domestic.

• eiriamach | May 28, 2012, 10:27 AM EDT

  Worley calls for putting lesbians and gay men into two concentration camps, behind electrified fences, until they die, and he talks about hanging them. Calling that "genocide" does not strain my inference neurons! Pastor Worley is just "disingenuous" like the Gestapo was just the honor guard at the Nazi parades.

• BrianO | May 28, 2012, 09:59 AM EDT

  Did he say Genocide? or is that the inference. Does he have no love for homosexuals, I would say yes, is he befuddled by the existance of homsexuals I would say yes, Is this article just as disingenuous, I would say yes. It tries to lump the fringe groups into the mainstream. It easy and sophomoric, and dis-honest.

• SingleDonald | May 28, 2012, 12:52 AM EDT

  It is not only gay bashing that these Christian fundamentalists preach. They, like old dogmatic Catholics, have rigid "rules" for heterosexuals, as well. I recall a movie, based in the 1970's, at a Catholic High School. During a dance, the brother advised dancing students to "leave some room for Jesus"! Now, if Jesus must get between a dancing couple, HE has a problem, and should see an earthly shrink! I always respect a woman I am with . THAT should be what Jesus expects me to do, not deny any amorous feelings between us. If intimacy is mutually desired, her needs should be addressed, as well as my own. I answer to the woman I am with, which a just Jesus would respect!

• TheOldPerfessor | May 27, 2012, 09:31 PM EDT

  Anybody remember the last time Pat Robertson quoted Jesus? All of that love and tolerance just doesn't fit in with his religion of hate.

• eiriamach | May 27, 2012, 08:46 PM EDT

  BytheBay, I'm not sure I understand your question, but I'll give it a try. I heard the suggestion about sending donations to LGBT groups in Pastor Worley's name in an Episcopal church (ECUSA) during a conversation with someone in lay ministry studies. The last time I visited a Catholic church, the priest was reading falsehoods, in the form of a letter from the bishop about the Obama admin's HHS mandate, from the pulpit. Yes, Catholics do politics and call it preaching, just as Pastor Worley does. Episcopalians speak about the Gospel from the pulpit and then "do" the Gospel when they're not in church. I recommend the latter approach.

• Bythebay | May 27, 2012, 07:23 PM EDT

  eiriamach, US Catholic Church at it again, preaching politics from the pulpit?

• seanomelbourne | May 27, 2012, 06:30 PM EDT

  What an ignorant buffoon of a human being the pastor and the so-called "lady" above. They are the proud base of the teaparty and all it stands for.Bigots like PiperMac52 and his crazy supporters on this site just have no humanity or love for others but those in their own bigoted image.

• ChillaKilla | May 27, 2012, 04:14 PM EDT

  Hear, hear PiperMac52! To see eiriamach spouting off convenient bible verses, hollaback bemoaning "the b.s." of those who don't commune with her ideas, TheOldProf unfavorably contrasting those who "worship" Ayn Rand while confusing the words of Jesus [which in most posts he might distort to favor his own], and jamthecat --a near-Trotskyite-- calling those on the right "communists," is worth tuning in to this channel to get Our daily chuckle..... This is classic IC and Doherty baloney, in addition to business as usual.... Yeah, so there are looney protestant pastors out there [as well as gay and sexually corrupt priests], who got into the ministry for their own purposes, which had nothing to do with doing God's work. These evildoers, unfortunately, have given a bad name to faith and religion and turned the marginal believers into skeptics. The bad part is that those who can't stop rolling their eyes, criticizing and attempting to throw the baby out with the bath water, are just as --if not more-- corrupt and evil in their own ideas. A true clichê that applies here is: 'The fox is not capable of seeing his own tail'

• eiriamach | May 27, 2012, 03:41 PM EDT

  Following through on a suggestion heard at church this morning: if you'd like to lend your voice to oppose Pastor Worley's anti-Christian pogrom, first do a search for the article "A Wickedly Beautiful Response to NC's Latest Gay Bashing Minister," by Rev. Mark Sandlin, 5/22/12. Rev. Sandlin asked for suggestions on "The God Article" Facebook page, and his favorite suggestion was to make a donation to your local LGBT group in the name of "Pastor Charles L. Worley of Providence Road Baptist Church, 3283 Providence Mill Rd, Maiden, NC 28650." Rev. Sandlin explains, "One, it helps fund organizations that are actively working against this kind of exclusion and bullying. Two, it puts Pastor Worley on their mailing lists!!! And, three, it can really show Pastor Worley and others what creative, non-violent resistance looks like – and that's biblical." On the "Wickedly Beautiful Response" site, you'll find a list of organizations that will put even a small contribution to good use, and you can send a postcard directly from the site to the N.C. gay-bashing Pastor Worley. Don't skip the comments that contributors have left at the site--most are beautiful!

• peterson | May 27, 2012, 03:32 PM EDT

  Good for North Carolina !!

• PiperMac52 | May 27, 2012, 02:56 PM EDT

  This article has it backwards. It is the left-wing liberals who are creating a god in their own image. There may be some overzealous Christians who proselytize giving the impression that they are not compassionate but both the old and new testament condemn the homosexual lifestyle as " a sin that cries out to heaven". Now moral relativists, including a strong "Gay Lobby" have left no stone unturned in their attempt to nullify God's laws which are evident in Nature(natural law). History however is not on their side as every civilization since the dawn of mankind has understood that homosexuality is a disordered and unnatural condition. In fact until 1973 and much pressure from that Gay lobby, the AMA, American Psychiatric Assoc. etc., all recognized the same.

• Nicomax | May 27, 2012, 01:31 PM EDT

  What is meant by all their 'god' talk? A majority of the world does not believe Jesus is the son of God, but nothing more than a wise man who gave generally good advice, precious little of which is followed today. These Christian radicals conflate Jesus with God all the time, and in their blindness cause confusion and injury to others.

• EphraimKibbey | May 27, 2012, 12:02 PM EDT

  The Presbyterian Church USA is struggling right now with LGBT issues. In the 80's a small group splintered off when the main church voted to allow the ordination of women. Now another group is threatening to break away as the PCUSA has voted more inclusion of the LGBT community. It is strange that these people are so concerned with holding others back, that they will abandon their church over it. It is sad that they missed His message so completely.

• jamthecat | May 27, 2012, 10:43 AM EDT

  These aren't christians, they're communists using christianity to hide behind. They are out to force the rest of the country to live according to their dogma, and if you don't, you won't be able to hold a job or have a place to live or health care or anything. That is how it worked in the Soviet Union; if you weren't a good party member, you got nothing and were left to your own devices. These people hate American's freedom. They hate the idea of self-determination. By all rights they are traitors to everything this country stands for, but the so-called "liberal media" presents them as just an angry group of voters with strong beliefs. IF they are not stopped, America will become this century's USSR.

• TheOldPerfessor | May 27, 2012, 10:20 AM EDT

  Even in the 1960s I went to a Baptist Church where the pastor had to explain to God every Sunday that LBJ was evil but that Vietnam War thing was great. Today's Christians amaze me. They worship Ayn Rand, even though her ideas are the 180 degree opposite of Jesus' teachings.

• hollabackgurl | May 27, 2012, 09:41 AM EDT

  The thing is they have started to believe their own b.s.: that they're the only thing standing between us and the zombie apocalypse. This makes them beyond dangerous. A misguided idea attached to an unshakeable conviction leads to people like Pastor Charles L. Worley, Pastor Sean Harris and their dumb as a box of rocks parishoners like Stacey Pritchard.

• eiriamach | May 27, 2012, 08:54 AM EDT

  It makes me pukin' sick" to listen to this far-right, churchgoing lynch mob invoking the name of 'Christianity' and calling hate speech preaching. It's an old story: "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you traverse sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves" (Mat 23:13-15). Old story, still true after 2,000 years, which is no commendation of the Christian churches: "Last fall, for example, a PRRI survey found that nearly seven-in-ten (69 percent) 18-29 year-old Millennials agree that religious groups are alienating young people by being too judgmental about gay and lesbian issues" (Wash. Post, Apr. 26). Can Christianity survive in the next generation? Should it?