138 Comments

• edmicca | May 15, 2011, 10:10 PM EDT

  O'Toole.... did Ralph call yet?

• thomasotoole | Apr 23, 2011, 05:49 PM EDT

  Ed......this is O'Toole I am awaiting a call from Ralph but I thought i would make a comment or two or perhaps even more .First you seem to act as a BULLY-BOY calling the Ladies names as you do ,is that something your catholic church /priests have taught you to do ??? On your very next post you should really apologize to both of them OK ? be the man you should be .Now then your remark that this is site is not about images on a pc NOT SO! If you take your head out from the sand you will find the the habit of the sexual abusers of children "the priests " have a habit of not only abusing little children but taking pictures and sharing them with the other priests that engage in this perverted practice so no Mr, ed as you are referred to here at this site you are again on the wrong side of "RIGHT ""Now your statement that only a few abuses have occurred last year is entirely wrong unless you are making reference to perhaps the town that you reside in..If you and the readers at this site want to get a handle on just how many abuses occur worldwide use this as a formula. Go to Google, then type in .....sexual abuse cases committed by catholic priests in ______then add the city,town and country ...you and the readers get to decide where ! The amount of hits that you will find is enough to make anyone sick .now you MR ed apologize to the ladies then go Google.......when I here from Ralph I will return with his message . Thomas O 'Toole

• edmicca | Apr 23, 2011, 01:01 PM EDT

  Thomasotoole - just the same, we were discussing child abuse, not images on computers. pls feel free to start a new discussion. just so you know, law enforcement agencies found a total of 8 credible allegations of abuse committed by priests nationwide in 2010. compare that with any other religious or non-religious group. JuneAnnette - you are a liar and a deceiver.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 22, 2011, 04:56 PM EDT

  A masterful response to Wm. Donahue by Vinnie Nauheimer, a victim of priest abuse***Article: 'The Spinmeister' An opinion on Straight talk about the Catholic Church by William Donohue / May, 2011 / Another EXCERPT: Who could possibly deny the brilliance of framing his argument as a dalliance among priests? A mere touch, a palpable touch nevertheless. “Minimization of the act” is the operative mandate. The acts of raping, sodomizing and molesting minors are considered felony crimes in most countries, Donohue never goes there. He avoids the criminal aspect like the plague for it would not do well to have anyone associate the Catholic Church with criminal activity or see the words criminal priest in a sentence. . . . Donohue utilizes his command of language to justify the unjustifiable acts of priests who abused children and the hierarchy who covered up these acts. He has the traits of a lap dog and a pit bull: blind allegiance to his church and the tenacity to never let go. Bringing in teachers and other organizations says to the public: yes, we have a few problems, but there are other groups such as the schools, other religions, etc that have problems too. “Its not only our problem” is another minimization tactic that is hard to rebuff. To his credit, Donohue cleverly avoids the global scale of Roman Catholic Clergy Abuse because it serves no purpose to let people know that there are credibly abused priests in over thirty countries around the world. Schools aren’t global and don’t move priests, bishops and cardinals around the world at will so Donohue localizes the issue to minimize it.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 22, 2011, 04:41 PM EDT

  A masterful response to Wm. Donahue by Vinnie Nauheimer, a victim of priest abuse***Article: 'The Spinmeister' An opinion on Straight talk about the Catholic Church by William Donohue / May, 2011 / EXCERPT:Mr. Donohue recently published a brilliant PR piece in the form of a paid advertisement in the NY Times. This is right out of Goebbels’ playbook, “Goebbels’ Principles of Propaganda” Number 6: “To be perceived, propaganda must evoke the interest of an audience and must be transmitted through an attention-getting communications medium.” thus the paid advertisement in the NY Times.Consider the outlandish proposition that the victims are not children! In this case Mr. Donohue makes a blanket statement that would make both Goebbels and Squealer turn green with envy. “let’s get it straight—they weren’t children and they weren’t raped” This statement is made with authority.The spinmeister speaks as if he is the first and last word on what constitutes a child; speaking from authority is a benchmark of a great spin doctor. Without saying what they were, he implies that the abused weren’t children. Notice how the propaganda leaves out ages. The readers say to themselves well if they weren’t children, they must have been older. Does older mean its okay? Does it make a difference if a child was ten, thirteen or fifteen when they were assaulted by their priest? Though the former may be termed a child and the latter an adolescent among those who utilize psychobabble (Spinmeisters) to make the act more palatable to their audience, does the rape, sodomization or molestation make the crime any less heinous? A good propagandist knows it does and employs the tactic every chance they get.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 22, 2011, 04:01 PM EDT

  The systematic abuse of children by R.C. Clerics which has providentially come to light in our day makes it no less outrageous and unspeakable. The time is come for the RCC hierarchy to hold their collective peace and compassionately listen to the voices of the Victims they oppressed over decades and confined to a prison of silence, and those who advocate for them!*** Article: Speak Your Piece: Silence No More / Source: the Daily Yonder / 04/22/2011 /***EXCERPT: Finally people are listening to us. Now we can stop carrying this terrible silent burden alone within our families. The Silence, a film reported and narrated by my friend and colleague Mark Trahant, was tough for me to watch when it aired this week on the Public Broadcasting System's Frontline series. As Trahant tells the story, beginning in 1968 and ending in 1983, a Catholic priest, George Endal, and his assistant, Deacon Joseph Lundowski, sexually abused 80 percent of the village’s children. Initially, church leaders denied any knowledge of the abuse by these men who were “revered and above suspicion.” When the victims' attorney was able to build a case using internal church documents, the church finally stopped denying knowledge of the abuse. The 2009 court settlement required that Fairbanks Bishop Donald Kettler meet in person with victims and apologize on behalf of the Catholic Church. (He was not bishop at the time the abuse took place.) In watching The Silence and, to me, the disingenuous apologies by Bishop Kettler to the victims of abuse, the experience underscored the fact that now, finally people are listening to us. Now we can stop carrying this terrible silent burden alone within our families.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 22, 2011, 12:37 PM EDT

  Edmicca . . Re: Patrick Doyle & Jeff Anderson . . There would be no need for lawyers like Jeff Anderson, nor priests like Patrick Doyle to represent and advocate for VICTIMS of clergy sex abuse, were there not credible and compelling evidence that as children they were sexually abused by R.C. Priests and their criminal acts covered up by R.C. Bishops and Cardinals in matters which the Vatican has itself denounced as the “Worst Crime”.***Title V of Crimens Sollicitationis is subtitled: “The Worst Crime” as seen from this excerpt: Title V / The Worst Crime / 73.) “To have the worst crime, for the penal effects, one must do the equivalent of the following: any obscene, external act, gravely sinful, perpetrated in any way by a cleric or attempted by him with youths of either sex or with brute animals (bestiality)”.*** Both Catholics and non-Catholics alike who know the Victims from the Vilians do not share your disdain for Patrick Doyle & Jeff Anderson.***" Patrick Doyle may yet stand trial in the CANON LAW COURT of the RCC, but there is coming a day . . the Day of Judgment when the "Judge of all the earth" will judge the pope and his minions for their criminal conduct and miscarriage of justice in these solemn matters.***"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." (Matt. 18:6) God's law trumps canon law!

• thomasotoole | Apr 22, 2011, 10:17 AM EDT

  Oh Ed,So you know I'm the neighbor of Ralph Norman he asked me to send this for him .He is traveling at the moment and was unable to respond.But I to am very aware of this case and "stuff" is going to fly when more hard drives are seized .It will be very interesting to see what cardinals stsrt to sing first.I do think if I remember the title of the somg correctely is "SPILLING THE BEANS .

• thomasotoole | Apr 22, 2011, 10:07 AM EDT

  ?Why are you always on the "wrong" side of "RIGHT". Former Bishop of Antigonish's hearings begin May 4. .(CCN)--When Bishop Raymond Lahey goes to trial on chi... por..... charges May 4, the news coverage will reopen wounds caused by the worldwide clerical se...abu....... The former Bishop of Antigonish was charged with possession and distribution of chil.. po..... in October 2009. The charges followed the seizure of his laptop and other electronics upon his arrival in Ottawa airport in September 2009, upon his return from overseas. The bishop had recently completed a multi-million dollar settlement for ... you know correct ?

• thomasotoole | Apr 22, 2011, 09:51 AM EDT

  ?Why are you always on the "wrong" side of "RIGHT". Former Bishop of Antigonish's hearings begin May 4. .(CCN)--When Bishop Raymond Lahey goes to trial on child pornography charges May 4, the news coverage will reopen wounds caused by the worldwide clerical sexual abuse.... The former Bishop of Antigonish was charged with possession and distribution of child pornography in October 2009. The charges followed the seizure of his laptop and other electronics upon his arrival in Ottawa airport in September 2009, upon his return from overseas. The bishop had recently completed a multi-million dollar settlement for ... you know correct ?

• edmicca | Apr 22, 2011, 12:00 AM EDT

  JuneAnnette, for every OLD allegation involving a priest you bring up I'll bring up 100 cases of public school abuse and more than that by your nice Uncle Lenny. These are NOT current cases. Your own words show you don't know what you're talking about ..."over 4 decades"..."more than 46 years". You have interesting bedfellows - Tommy Doyle, Jeff Anderson... I know these characters, you don't.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 21, 2011, 09:31 PM EDT

  More of the same . . Article: 'Chilean Police Seize Vatican Documents on Priest Abuse Case' / Source: Hispanicallyspeakingnews / April 19, 2011***EXCERPT: Files on the abuse case of Chilean priest, Fr. Fernando Karadima, have been seized by police after the Catholic Church refused to turn their files over on the case. Fr. Karadima was found guilty of sexual abuse by the Vatican and ordered to retire from the priesthood with punishment being a life of prayer and penance. The civil case on the matter was going nowhere until the Vatican’s case concluded.The Archdiocese of Santiago and Vatican refused to turn over files when local officials requested them claiming the Vatican to be a sovereign state not subject to Chilean law. Police seized them from the offices of Karadima’s attorney. Fr. Karadima was one of Chile’s most respected and influential priests for his work training new priests through his Catholic action youth movement and for his work amongst Chile’s most elite Catholics. It was during these training sessions that four men now accuse the 80 year old priest of sexual abuse.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 21, 2011, 08:15 PM EDT

  More CURRENT charges of R.C. Clergy abuse . . Jeff Anderson, the St. Paul, Minnesota-based clergy abuse attorney, who along with Chicago attorney Marc Pearlman represents the Plaintiffs, said***Top Jesuit officials endangered children for over 4 decades and refused to cooperate with authorities in criminal investigation***“This is an appalling demonstration of top Jesuit officials choosing to endanger the children and protect themselves. These documents show that as recently as 2008, and for more than 46 years, Jesuit officials on three continent had at least 28 reports of suspicious behavior by McGuire. This is so current and comparable to the recent revelations of the Philadelphia Grand Jury that we are reminded once again that little has changed.” Anderson said. McGuire, who was indicted for his crimes in Wisconsin, Illinois and Arizona, is currently serving a 25 year sentence in federal prison.***Article: '70 never released documents reveal extent of cover-up from 1960’s through 2007' / Source: Jeff Anderson & Associates PA / Mar 28, 2011

• edmicca | Apr 21, 2011, 03:36 PM EDT

  Ralphnorman... you have an advantage over most mortals - you know the score without having to resort to the facts. Nothing came of this b.s. charge of crimes against humanity and nothing will. The Church has survived bigger crises in 2,000 years and will survive this, while professional naysayers like JuneAnnette and her demigod Thomas Doyle, himself under investigation, will be relegated to history's pile of the long-forgotten. She makes emotionally charged claims without a shred of credible supporting data and you gobble it up like a wimpy lapdog looking for a pat on the head. Then again, reliable data is not Mzzz JuneAnnette's long suit - she avoids looking at it like Dracula avoids the cross.

• ralphnorman | Apr 21, 2011, 02:12 PM EDT

  Good June Annette>>>it's about time someone took him to task>>>the “pope” has enjoyed immunity for far too long>>>no one is above the law. what will be more interesting is when the authorities raid the churches and confiscate the computer hard drives. And EVEN MORE interesting to see what they “turn up”>>>>>>I wonder if then >>>my dear mr.ed>>>>will say that he did not know>>>that he just fell off the turnip truck. Ralph Norman

• JuneAnnette | Apr 21, 2011, 12:34 PM EDT

  I have it on good authority that Patrick Doyle isn't the only one facing charges these days *** Article: 'Charges initiated against Pope for crimes against humanity' / Source: Irish Times / Feb 23, 2011 / Excerpt: TWO GERMAN lawyers have initiated charges against Pope Benedict XVI at the International Criminal Court, alleging crimes against humanity. Christian Sailer and Gert-Joachim Hetzel, based at Marktheidenfeld in the Pope’s home state of Bavaria, last week submitted a 16,500-word document to the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court at the Hague, Dr Luis Moreno Ocampo. They claim the Catholic Church “acquires its members through a compulsory act, namely, through the baptism of infants that do not yet have a will of their own”. This act was “irrevocable” and is buttressed by threats of excommunication and the fires of hell. There was also “strong suspicion that Dr Joseph Ratzinger, as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith of his church and as Pope, has up to the present day systematically covered up the sexual abuse of children and youths and protected the perpetrators, thereby aiding and abetting further sexual violence toward young people”.***Add this to the ongoing litigation His church is embroiled in, along with the intense media attention the RCC Clergy Abuse SCANDAL has attracted, not to mention the trial in the court of public opinion, and you've got a public relations nightmare of epic proportions.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 21, 2011, 11:44 AM EDT

  McNamara31 and others interested in the TRUTH***Blowing whistle on sex abuse means new career for priest.' - Pt. 3 / Source: National Catholic Reporter / Sep 15, 1995*** Doyle said no committee or entity of the bishops' conference studied the issue seriously. One bishop, Doyle said, dismissed the crisis proposal as calling for a "SWAT" team. Doyle said another bishop referred to him as an "agent of Satan."The bishops' response to the report over the years "was consistently very condemnatory of what we had done," Doyle said. He said "the bishops' conference did not use the power and information it had to take a leadership position on the issue. They took a defensive position. They tried to cover up and control." Doyle said his frank approach to the clergy sex abuse issue was probably what prompted higher-ups at the Vatican Embassy to edge him out of his canon law post. He said he also believes his outspokenness may have discouraged Catholic University from hiring him as a teacher in 1987. Now, 25 years after his ordination, Doyle works as a military chaplain. He will soon be posted at Lodges Field Air Force Base in the Azores -- smack in the middle " of the Atlantic Ocean."After I get out of the military, I won't be able to get a job in the Catholic church even as a librarian at a convent for retired nuns," he quipped.*** I'll leave it up to the readers to decide who the real “agents of Satan” are!

• JuneAnnette | Apr 21, 2011, 11:00 AM EDT

  McNamara31 and others interested in the TRUTH***'Blowing whistle on sex abuse means new career for priest.' - Pt. 2 / Source: National Catholic Reporter / Sep 15, 1995*** Their report on the issue was a "freewill offering" to the bishops, Doyle said. "I had talked to a number of bishops and asked how we could help. They suggested this particular format," Doyle said. "At that time, a lot of the bishops were just baffled by this whole thing because, very quickly, a lot of cases were popping up." Doyle said that in the mid-1980s, he and his colleagues wanted to see a national-level committee within the bishops' conference that would "hire the best lawyers, psychologists and pastoral care people to get a state-of-the-art analysis on the problem and ... how to handle it."The authors' primary goal, Doyle said, was "making sure the response to the victims and their families was total compassion." Doyle said the bishops initially favored the proposal, but "something happened" in the conference."All of a sudden, (the initiative) just flopped and fell through," Doyle said. "I never found out exactly why. The steps we had taken to get them interested in a special ad hoc committee all of a sudden were shut down. They didn't want to deal with it on that level."**Men like DOYLE with a conscience are a dying breed and whistleblowers are generally ostracized, marginalized and undermined by those who have the most to lose if they tell all! Not surprised to learn from edmicca that the Vatican has now put Doyle in the dock .

• JuneAnnette | Apr 21, 2011, 09:59 AM EDT

  McNamara31 . . With respect to edmicca's comments below re: Patrick Doyle . . I would invite you and others interested in the TRUTH to GOOGLE the following article *** 'Blowing whistle on sex abuse means new career for priest.' / Source: National Catholic Reporter / Sep 15, 1995***Excerpt: A decade ago, Doyle, at the time a canon lawyer at the Vatican Embassy in Washington, became aware of the problems of sex abuse among Catholic clergy. He had been monitoring correspondence for what was perhaps the first highly publicized case of clerical abuse in the United States -- a lawsuit in the Lafayette, La., diocese. Joining ranks with attorney Ray Mouton, the lawyer defending the Lafayette priest, and the late psychiatrist and Catholic cleric Michael Peterson, who was acting as a referral person for the Lafayette diocese, Doyle helped produce an extensive report about the clergy sex abuse problem. That document may have been the begining of the end of Doyle's standing in the official Catholic circles.The idea for the report jelled after Mouton "found out the diocese was covering up for other pedophiles and began blowing the whistle," Doyle said. Alarmed that the Lafayette scenario was occurring "a lot" elsewhere, Doyle said the three professionals were compelled to do something about it.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 21, 2011, 09:58 AM EDT

  McNamara31 . . with respect to your remark: "I did not leave my church, the church leadership left the teachings of Jesus Christ when they took the corporate route rather than the Christian one in dealing with little children who have had their lives ruined."*****Your assessment of the RCC goes to the heart of the very heart of the matter!

• edmicca | Apr 21, 2011, 09:45 AM EDT

  McN31...the Church has done a great deal about your concerns, clearly more than you realize and are willing to see. I speak as someone on the inside.

• McNamara31 | Apr 21, 2011, 09:39 AM EDT

  Emicca… You are totally wrong. I have not one drop of hatred for the Catholic Church, It was the church I was raised in, married in , baptized my children in, and held it's doctrines as my moral compass, as I still do at this moment. It’s because of those doctrines that I feel the way I do. I did not leave my church, the church leadership left the teachings of Jesus Christ when they took the corporate route rather than the Christian one in dealing with little children who have had their lives ruined. I still believe the only way this church “leadership” can regain faith from its people is to remove those who knowingly took part in abuse or the even the bigger issue of cover up because that allowed more children to be victimized. Calling me a hater is a simplistic reaction to a problem you know I have grounds to feel the way I do. I choose to say rid the church of this leadership who has so adversely hurt our church, our people, and the Catholic faith, and you choose to stand in part supporting the hierarchy that are still in place. That’s the difference between us; it has nothing to do with hate.

• edmicca | Apr 20, 2011, 11:53 PM EDT

  ever notice those who don't like the church always cite FORMER priests like patrick wall? As for controlling the conversation, mzzz mcnamara, discussing bill donohue's nytimes post is what the conversation was all about, not that you read it. the john jay report doesn't support your pre-existing hatred of the church so you ignore it. you and mzzz juneannette remind me of thomas huxley - grandpa of aldous - and bertrand russell, two atheists. they weren't interested in proofs for God's existence - they simply didn't want there to be a God. you two are so locked into hating the catholic church that you don't care when the truth hits you in the face. you simply don't want a church you can't despise. how pathetic. your hatred is a poison you take in the hope the church will die. fyi, the usccb was NOT the only source of data for the j.j. report. your hissy fits are no longer amusing.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 20, 2011, 07:53 PM EDT

  McNamara31 . . With respect to edmicca's comments below re: Patrick Doyle . . I would invite you and others interested in the TRUTH to read the following articles ***Article: 'Blowing whistle on sex abuse means new career for priest.' / Source: National Catholic Reporter / Sep 15, 1995***Article: 'Catholic Priest Who Aids Church Sexual Abuse Victims Loses Job' / Source: The New York Times / April 29, 2004***Article: 'Thomas P. Doyle: Fighting to Prevent Clergy Sexual Abuse in the Catholic Church' / Source: BishopAccountability.org / July 8, 2009 ***edmicca wrote: “For what it's worth, Fr. Doyle, canon lawyer that he is, has been banned in the Archdiocese of St. Louis from offering legal representation. Not to mention that he himself, canon lawyer that he is, is accused of the canonical crimes of abuse of ecclesiastical functions, and of the culpably negligent and illegitimate placing of an act of ecclesiastical function with harm to another.” **** Perhaps edmicca might be persuaded to elaborate on the charges brought against P.Doyle in layman's language!****I wonder if those charges have anything to do with the expert witness testimony Mr. Doyle has given in a court of law . . testimony he felt obliged to give, both in his conscience and in the sight of God, the Judge over all! (Ps. 96:13) God's law trumps canon law!

• JuneAnnette | Apr 20, 2011, 07:17 PM EDT

  McNamara31 . . edmicca contends “there's nothing contrived about statistics reported in studies conducted by outside agencies such as the John Jay Report from John Jay College.” . . but Patrick Wall, a world-renowned expert on the Catholic Clergy Abuse Crisis who has been working on behalf of victims of clergy sexual abuse since 2002 does not share his assessment.***Article: 'Secular Blessing of a Cover-Up' / Source:PatrickWallwordpress.com / April 12, 2011 ***EXCERPT: “In 2002, the US Conference of Catholic Bishops rolled out a plan: they were going to reach out to survivors, remove abusive priests, allow independent lay people to review abuse, and miraculously transform the church into a safe haven for children and vulnerable people. They were going to do it all through self-reporting, self-auditing and transparency.** The John Jay Study . . In another crafty tactic by the Bishops, they hired the John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York to conduct a “study.” Competent and world renown as the college is, John Jay was utterly dependent upon the information each Bishop decided to give them. You can review the 2004 study here. The study was nothing more than a third-party rehash of only the information that the USCCB wanted to be publicly disseminated. Confused? Think of it this way: imagine a police detective is investigating a murder. Then, imagine that theonly evidence the detective can examine is the evidence that the murderer himself freely turns over. Now you understand how the Bishops work.” ***Patrick Wall is a former Roman Catholic Priest and Benedictine Monk

• JuneAnnette | Apr 20, 2011, 07:01 PM EDT

  McNamara31 . . As you have said "I believe its God’s plan for all of this to be uncovered and all those who looked the other way to be brought to justice."***Here's an observation made by AB Diarmuid Martin that should cause wholesale OUTRAGE amongst the R.C. community.***Source: America Magazine online / Article: 'Diarmuid Martin's Admission: No Remorse on Part of Most Abusers' / April 06, 2011 / by: James Martin, S.J.*** EXCERPT: In a blunt lecture on Monday at Marquette University in Milwaukee, Wis., Archbishop Diarmuid Martin of Dublin made what to my mind is a stunning admission about the sexual abuse crisis in the church: With perhaps "two exceptions" he has "not encountered a real and unconditional admission of guilt and responsibility on the part of priest offenders" in his diocese.  That is, the abusive priests in his diocese, with only a few exceptions, do not seem remorseful." 

• edmicca | Apr 20, 2011, 05:46 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette, there's nothing contrived about statistics reported in studies conducted by outside agencies such as the John Jay Report from John Jay College. If you don't want to believe the data or refute them with reliable counter-arguments, then don't, but as they say, you're entitled to your own opinions, JA, but not your own facts. If you think I'm unaware of the nature and extent of the abuses and of the continuing news of allegations (some true, some not, none recent), and if you think I'm not deeply disturbed by what's taken place, then, ma'am, you don't know your elbow from the bottom of your spine. Someone coming forward after 20, 30, 40 years is not proof of guilt, as any blockhead should know. The cases have to be examined. Some past allegations have been proven phony. You play the sympathy card as if Mr. Donohue and myself have none. No one here is defending abusive priests, but listening to your mouth you'd think all it takes is pointing a finger to prove every priest guilty, making you no better than the gossipy finger pointers of the Salem witch trials. What also disturbs me are liars who ignore what has actually happened and who bleat like bagpipes the same anti-Church rant as if a mindless appeal to hatred and not reason will ever win the day.

• McNamara31 | Apr 20, 2011, 04:55 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette …Sadly, edmicca does not seem very interested in truth or empathy for those who have suffered so much. He repeatedly attempts to “control and return the conversation” back to the contrived slice of an argument placed in the New York Times by Bill Donohue. He fails miserably to understand that abuse cases are still being uncovered, and victims are still coming forward, and that this is not something that is in the past tense and cannot be analyzed as so. The stories of rape and abuse recently released from the Philadelphia grand jury report are just coming to view. One story of an abused and raped 10 ten year old altar boy who was passed from priest to priest, then on to a catholic school teacher who also raped him, makes a parent’s heart sink; yet people like Bill Donohue would rather play their game of deflection than stand for the victims.*** Just what category would Mr. Donohue and his John Jay Study, that he loves to quote, place this little altar boy whose life was ruined, and later went on to become a drug addict?***Last night "Frontline" aired a documentary about a village of Native Americans in Alaska where in 1970 hundreds were abused continually by the priest and his assistant. In this isolated village, in the Alaskan wilderness, it was stated almost every boy had been molested. I believe its God’s plan for all of this to be uncovered and all those who looked the other way to be brought to justice. Lent is the perfect time for reflection. Reflection on the living hell these little children suffered at the hands of those who should have protected them. Finally, I also believe Mr. Donohue would sing a very different tune if he were the father of one of these children.

• edmicca | Apr 20, 2011, 02:21 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette...m'dear, you have one odd take on forgiveness. It's certainly not in accord with Jesus' own examples of it - the woman at the well, the woman caught in adultery, the thief on the cross. Then again, this is no surprise since you seem to kneel at the feet of one Thomas Doyle, O.P., a man who could take a ham and egg sandwich and turn it into a victim situation of the egg abusing the ham. For what it's worth, Fr. Doyle, canon lawyer that he is, has been banned in the Archdiocese of St. Louis from offering legal representation. Not to mention that he himself, canon lawyer that he is, is accused of the canonical crimes of abuse of ecclesiastical functions, and of the culpably negligent and illegitimate placing of an act of ecclesiastical function with harm to another. Seems your canon lawyer may have violated a canon law or two himself. But until the matter is settled, let's give the beleaguered Fr. Doyle the same benefit of doubt all accused of high crimes and misdemeanors should be afforded. (e.g., priests). I bet you're a good dancer...your fancy footwork has kept you from giving any meaningful response to the issue at hand - Bill Donohue's NY Times piece. Remember Bill and his ad? A man robs a bank. He's overcome with remorse and hands back the money. The bank president forgives him. He goes away for 5 years. Forgiveness, mercy, justice. How's your comments on Bill Donohue's article coming along?

• JuneAnnette | Apr 20, 2011, 12:59 PM EDT

  edmicca . . Forgiveness in context . . in the words of Thomas P. Doyle, R.C. Dominican priest & Clergy Abuse Victim's Advocate: ***EXCERPT: ***The doctrine of forgiveness forms the basis for yet another belief that becomes toxic when merged with the Church's response to sexual abuse. Most people misunderstand the theological concept and believe it means leaving the offense behind and essentially forgetting about it while forgoing any expectation of justice or punishment for the offender. How often have victims cringed at the words arrogantly uttered by a bishop or high ranking cleric that "we are a forgiving Church?" This attitude imposes misplaced guilt on the victims for their justifiably angry feelings against their perpetrators. There is a significant degree of confusion about the meaning of forgiveness. When Church officials speak of it and ask victims to dutifully forgive their abusers, this easily translates into re-victimization. It is a conscious attempt to misuse a theological concept to avoid responsibility and accountability for the crime of abuse. To the victim, forgiveness may translate to acting and thinking as if the event did not happen and to the offender it translates into deliverance from taking responsibility for the abuse. Churchmen or others who urge forgiveness intentionally misinterpret the doctrine of forgiveness for their own selfish benefit. They also do not comprehend the depth of pain that comes from sexual abuse nor do they understand what re-victimization means.”***Article: The understanding of forgiveness…by Thomas P. Doyle

• JuneAnnette | Apr 20, 2011, 11:38 AM EDT

  edmicca . . Herein lies the difference between priestly abuse of children and abuse that occurs in public schools, though in both cases, they are unspeakable crimes. What makes the abuse of children especially sinister and horrific is summed up in the words of lawyer and former Benedictine monk and priest, both who represent the real VICTIMS:***Chris Cooke, a partner in an Anchorage law firm that has represented Eskimo victims, voices outrage over the staggering level of abuse by priests and church volunteers. "They had absolute power over the people and the culture," says Cooke. "They had language power. They had political power. They had racial power. They had the power to send you to hell. There was nowhere for victims to turn." and again:***Patrick Wall, a former Benedictine monk and Catholic priest who has served as a consultant to Roosa and other lawyers in the Alaska suits, said the Jesuits knew these missionaries were predators. These priests "had abused elsewhere," he said, "and then were unleashed in the most uncontrolled environment." Source: Newsweek / Article: 'Absolute Power' / January 14, 2008***

• edmicca | Apr 20, 2011, 11:19 AM EDT

  JuneAnnette... you're right. Abusers committed terrible sins. I keep in mind that God loves all them as much as he loves you and me. We all fall short of the glory of God and are in need of his forgiveness. All of us, priests and teachers too, are to live our lives so that the world can see Christ living though us. You indict the whole Church for the sins of some. As for what this discussion is about, it began with Bill Donohue's article in the NY Times and Cahir O'Doherty's inane response to it. Mr. Donohue wasn't whitewashing any Church culpability, yet you repeatedly say that's all he did. Chapter and verse, svp. If you and McNamara31 want to keep the discussion on point, then take the items in Bill Donohue's contextual statistics and respond to them one by one. You ignore the great bulk of abuses, those committed by others. You cannot meaningfully discuss sexual abuse of the young if you ignore the who, what, where of most of the cases. You ignore all the Church is currently doing to help victims and prevent future abuses. No organization or group is doing nearly as much. My own pastor was immediately removed from his administrative functions as soon as the bishop was made aware of an allegation against him. The case will now be examined to uncover wherein lies the truth. I keep him and any possible victim in my prayers. We are entering the Triduum - Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and Holy Saturday - the prelude to Easter, the central event in human history. God transformed the world through his suffering and death. We need to pray for those who betrayed Christ and the trust parents placed in them, and we need to pray for the victims of abuse. And we must remember that Christ's redeeming sacrifice has the power to forgive and heal even the most grievous of sins of those who reach out to him in repentance. It's easy to see the sins of other but we must first examine our own infidelities. By renewing ourselves we renew the Church. Happy Easter.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 20, 2011, 10:17 AM EDT

  edmicca . . Madame Defarge? ? And what of the pervert priests that abused helpless innocent children? ? Marquis de Sades, every one of them! And the bishops and cardinals . . just as culpable for covering the whole sordid matter up.****Your remark: “Don't hide behind some dopey argument about the difference between a teacher and a priest.”****My response: There is a BIG difference. R.C. Priests are said to be “representatives of Christ” and the RCC claims that they are the “one true church of Jesus Christ”.****Again this is not about a few wayward priests, but about the spirit of lying and deception which is clearly in view in your church. The consistent pattern of lying, deceit, secrecy and cover up that has characterized the manner in which the clergy abuse scandal has been addressed by those who have the spiritual rule simply cannot be reconciled with the teaching of Christ and evinces a worldly spirit rather than a Christlike spirit. We are exhorted in God's Word to “try the spirits whether they are of God.”(1 John 4:1 )McNamara31 was right when she said . . . “ the church should do some "true reflection" instead of Bill Donohue style "deflection", and finally remove all those who looked the other way while decades of children where abused and Rome stayed silent.”**** Your remark: ”For every abuse committed by a priest, 100 abuses were committed by public school teachers.”****My response: This discussion is not about public school teachers. Those who send their children to them should make it their concern to expose and root out the child abusers in their midst.!

• edmicca | Apr 19, 2011, 09:55 PM EDT

  June "Madame Defarge" Annette. Read your John Jay Report. For every abuse committed by a priest, 100 abuses were committed by public school teachers. Don't hide behind some dopey argument about the difference between a teacher and a priest. You're still avoiding Bill Donohue's NY Times piece. Once again, the issue here isn't pedophila, it's homosexuality. While you're at it, do a little studying on just what the Church is... McNamara - sorry for the gender bender. Yes, the abuses were a disgrace. Some of them were crimes. No one's deflecting that, but you continue to deflect the data in Bill Donohue's NY Times ad. Where's your motherly rage against the great majority of abusers who were not priests.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 19, 2011, 02:01 PM EDT

  edmicca . . I repeat a prior comment for your benefit and to address your spurious claims regarding public schools. It must be pointed out that public schools are an entirely different entity from the “Holy Roman Catholic Church” which lays claim to being the “one true church of Jesus Christ.” Neither do public school teachers claim to be “Christ's representatives on earth”! Where and when did secular school districts, boards of education, or teachers’ unions ever conspire on an international scale to protect pedophile teachers, let alone transfer them, thus allowing them to continue to prey on children, as the Roman Catholic Church is proven in court to have done?Secular education authorities have never done what the Roman Catholic Church has done in protecting such dangerous villains, nor, being cognizant of who and what they are, allowing them to continue. Only the Church of Rome is repeatedly proven in court to be guilty of that magnitude of evil.

• McNamara31 | Apr 19, 2011, 01:15 PM EDT

  edmicca...Ed, "McNamara31 still displays (not)his (but her) own biases by refusing to discuss the fact that most of the abuses were committed by non priests".... Being a woman, and a mother, lets me see this issue for what it was ...abuse, crime, cover up and a disgrace. Ed, your repeated attempts to deflect are seen as they are.

• edmicca | Apr 19, 2011, 12:43 PM EDT

  The USCCB has no magisterial authority and its positions are not binding on the country's bishops. This is true of all national conferences of bishops. JuneAnnette teaches us an interesting lesson - how to ignore studies that don't support her pre-conceived biases, such as studies put out by the USCCB and the John Jay Report. McNamara31 still displays his own biases by refusing to discuss the fact that most of the abuses were committed by non-priests. Ratslayer...what can I say...you've actually succeeded in subtracting from the sum total of human knowledge.

• edmicca | Apr 19, 2011, 12:31 PM EDT

  BILL DONOHUE ON TV TODAY... on Fox News' "America Live" at 2:45 p.m., Bill Donohue will discuss Lady Gaga's latest single, "Judas".

• Ratslayer | Apr 19, 2011, 12:11 PM EDT

  I bet $1 million this old troll is the biggest bugger of them all!

• JuneAnnette | Apr 19, 2011, 11:30 AM EDT

  McNamara31 . . f.y.i. . . I am confident that those commenting on this blog are intelligent enough to sift through the reports regarding the R.C.C. Clergy abuse scandal recently publicized from their not so “independent” inquiries and are quite capable of distinguishing facts / stats from the P.R. spin of the not especially credible USCCB. Some already have, but I thought you might find their analysis of interest: ***Article: 'The Truth vs. Public Relations' by Marci Hamilton / Source: Patheos.com / April 14, 2011***Article: 'Archbishop Dolan’s Posturing Hogwash about USCCB and Zero Tolerance' / Press Release / National Survivor Advocates Coalition Statement of March 28, 2011***Article: Secular Blessing of a Cover-Up by: Patrick J. Wall / Source: patrickjwallwordpress.com /April 12, 2011***Article: 'Sins of the Fathers: Pennsylvania case shows some church leaders ignored own rules' / April 08, 2011 / Source: Syracuse.com*** Article: ' Reform Group Urges Catholics To Stop Donating to Bishops, Says They Are Hiding Known And Suspected Pedophile Priests'/ Source: Voice from the Desert Blog / April 10, 2011

• McNamara31 | Apr 19, 2011, 11:17 AM EDT

  edmicca states… "or is your anger reserved only for the Catholic Church, a bias you seem to enjoy with the NY Times and Mr. O'Doherty".......... Bias, you ask? More like an “intact conscience” that was instilled in me by my Irish mother and the good priests and nuns who represented this church, long before the soulless legal eagles took over and of which you sound very similar.

• edmicca | Apr 19, 2011, 09:22 AM EDT

  McNamara31...the abuses that came to light in 2003 took place decades before that time. The Attorney General of Massachusetts indicted no one of criminal wrongdoing, same on Long Island. The grand juries you cite indicted no one. A grand jury's job isn't to give moral opinions. Listen, no one's denying abuses took place and tose guilty of wrongdoing should be held accountable. The discussion here stems from Irish Central reporter Cahir O'Doherty's idiotic non-response to Bill Donohue's full-page ad that appeared in the NY Times. Contrary to opinions expressed here by those who haven't taken the time to read the piece, Mr. Donohue doesn't whitewash anything. He is holding the NYTimes, Boston Globe, etc, to task to tell the truth about the scandals and about abuses as they occur throughout society. Your young child in Catholic school is far safer around a priest than he is around members of every other religious denomination, certainly safer than around public school teachers, and most of all safer than he is around relatives. Statistically, these are the main abusers, not priests. How many posts have you made about them, or is your anger reserved only for the Catholic Church, a bias you seem to enjoy with the NY Times and Mr. O'Doherty?

• McNamara31 | Apr 19, 2011, 09:15 AM EDT

  edmicca..This issue has destroyed the Catholic Church as "we" knew it. The "we" are generations of faithful Catholics who held on to their faith for generations, married in the church, baptized their children, buried their dead, built schools and churches. There is no way these crimes can be rationalized and it's time for the filth to be swept out. If this had been any other institution the bishops and the Pope would be serving time, and why shouldn't they? They did this with the benefit of a full Christian education, so there was no question they were ignorant to just what "they enabled". The reason that these cluster of cases continue to show themselves in city after city is because the Church never handled it properly from the beginning, accepting accountability, cleansing itself from within, including prosecution of the leadership involved. So the filth remains.

• McNamara31 | Apr 19, 2011, 08:50 AM EDT

  @edmicca..."McNamara31... you haven't been keeping up to date on how the Church is handling abuse. Check out what the bishops did when they met at Dallas. "As a parent of a young child who was in Catholic school in 2003 when the abuses of children first came to view, I can assure you I have "keeping up" with this horrible scourge as it became apparent from Boston to Long Island to Dublin and on to Philadelphia. Documentation shows time and time again that the Church leadership was pulled "dragging and kicking" to do the "right thing" and did so only because of the nonstop media coverage initially by the Boston Globe. I have one an assignment for you; read the letters that were part of the testimony during the Boston grand jury. Letters from mothers pleading time and time again with clergy and bishops to deal with abusing priests. See how they were "handled" by those who stand as Christ's representatives on earth. Did you once stop and think that Christ through the Holy Spirit is working through the other side ie: VOTF etc, to remove this filth and those who hid it from His church? Maybe you should consider you're on the wrong side of this issue.

• edmicca | Apr 18, 2011, 10:39 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette...the pope is free or error in the narrow setting when pronouncing on matters of faith and morals. This is where infallibility applies. Infallibility has nothing to do with whether the pope is a good person or what his opinions are. It's Christ's way of guaranteeing that his revelation gets passed along intact to all generations. Christ speaks through his Church... seanomelbourne... popes have never changed doctrine, they can never change doctrine. If you want a democratic church, join the Congregationalists. Doctrine is God's revelation of truths necessary for our salvation. The Church doesn't make up doctrine anymore than scientists make up the speed of light or the laws of gravity, therefore the Church can't change doctrine, only grow in its understanding of it the way the scientists grow in understanding the nature of light, gravity, etc. The Church and the science community pass on the truths of their respective fields, but they don't make up the truths... McNamara31... you haven't been keeping up to date on how the Church is handling abuse. Check out what the bishops did when they met at Dallas.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 18, 2011, 09:33 PM EDT

  edmicca said: "the pope is guaranteed by Christ to be free of error, regardless of his personal character.." ? ? ? Please enlighten us further ? ? ?

• seanomelbourne | Apr 18, 2011, 07:30 PM EDT

  Never has so few written so much in defense of the indefensible. democracy in religion is urgently needed.Contrary to belief popes are not infallible and they have changed church law to satisfy their own personal beliefs.

• McNamara31 | Apr 18, 2011, 04:27 PM EDT

  In this remaining period of Lent leading up to Good Friday, the church should do some "true reflection" instead of Bill Donohue style "deflection", and finally remove all those who looked the other way while decades of children where abused and Rome stayed silent.

• edmicca | Apr 18, 2011, 04:19 PM EDT

  elrlamach... the allegations coming out today deal with events of 20, 30, 40 years ago. I was wrong when I said that the number of proven cases committed last year was 10 - it was 6. 5 bucks if you can show me ONE organization that does more for victims of abuse than the Catholic Church... JuneAnnette...no one said popes, bishops, etc, can't err or even be bad people. Original sin sees to that. What I said was that on matters of faith and morals, the pope is guaranteed by Christ to be free of error, regardless of his personal character... seanomelbourne...take up your brilliant idea of an elected council running the Church with Christ. He obviously got it wrong when he instituted a hierarchical church... RalphNorman...you have me confused with someone else. I haven't said boo about money laundering.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 18, 2011, 11:45 AM EDT

  "Lord Acton's dictum" "I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption, it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority: still more when you superadd the tendency or certainty of corruption by full authority. There is no worse heresy than the fact that the office sanctifies the holder of it. "[3] 3) Dalberg-Acton, John Emerich Edward (1949), Essays on Freedom and Power, Boston: Beacon Press, p. 364

• seanomelbourne | Apr 17, 2011, 07:24 PM EDT

  close down the Vatican, sack the pope and have an elected council running the church.

• lynnofarrell | Apr 17, 2011, 05:10 PM EDT

  The need to change Cannon Law to address the issue. PP Benedict knew and probable PP John Paul II. Benedict indicated his knowlege and yet there was nohting to do as the Law did not address the problem SOOOO Chance the Law. Juat because they are priest dose not give them a ticket to have sexual encounter with members of the parish and most of the underage or impaired ( deaf). It is not just Catholic but all religions. It is just horrifying because it is done by persons of the Religious cloth, Methodist, Episcopal. Luthern Jewhova witness and Morman, as well as non christian churches. Something needs to change/ Better screening, and constant monitoring. I know I have to be fingerprinted and bonded to work as a nurse. so teachers coaches, church, firemen police scouts boys or girls and Boys & Girsl club volunteers.

• eiriamach | Apr 17, 2011, 04:14 PM EDT

  I don't know where edmicca gets those fanciful numbers, but you can find on the 'net the American bishops' report on sexual abuse of children in US religious houses and parishes, entitled "Report on the Implementation of the Charter for the Protection of Children and Young People." The numbers and costs of abuse cases continue to be shocking. The report probably under-estimates the numbers because it depends on self-reporting and "the conclusions reached as to compliance ... with the Charter were based on the completeness and accuracy of the informa­tion furnished by the diocese/eparchy to The Gavin Group, Inc." (p. 7) Personnel turnover resulted in incomplete and incorrect responses (p. 8) and, for example, "Several dioceses reported receiving verification from pastors that training had taken place, only to have the auditors discover it was not offered" (p. 22). IF anyone thinks that there's any wiggle room for scapegoating the abuse or for comparing it with abuse in public schools or boy scouts, you should check out the bishops' own report.

• ralphnorman | Apr 16, 2011, 05:29 PM EDT

  My dear mr.ed>>>>>>>>>let me explain it this way a laundromat washes soiled clothing things that are dirty! The RCC the roman catholic corporation wash's / laundries money >>dirty money that needs to be cleaned then re invested in lets a say a hospital and a college and a new building etc.Now my good man i urge you to do >do diligence and study the matter out.History has a way of finally exposing those who need to be exposed .If you care to leave me your e mail address I'll be glad to point you in the correct direction and remember Google is your friend. Now Mr. Ed go to work and return her with a full report when you are finished. Ralph Norman

• edmicca | Apr 16, 2011, 03:57 PM EDT

  JunieMoonAnnette, I challenge you and Richard Sipe to support any of his comically outlandish statements. Name ONE organization that does more than the Catholic Church to aid victims and implement programs to prevent abuse. Remember, ma'am, last year out of tens of thousands of priests, there were fewer than ten cases of abuse. Of course sexual abuse is a sin and could very well be a crime. If so, it's up to the DA to do his job. Remember, name ONE organization...

• JuneAnnette | Apr 16, 2011, 12:15 PM EDT

  edmicca - Catholic . . Edmicca . . Richard Sipe, who has a firsthand working knowledge of how bishops operate exposes the real calling card of deceit to be theirs!*****Source: RichardSipe.com Article: U.S. CATHOLIC BISHOPS: THE FACE OF DECEPTION / 2011-02-22 EXCERPT: The Roman Catholic Church cannot be trusted. It is as simple as that. *The church cannot be trusted to deal with sexual abuse by its priests and bishops; *Bishops, cardinals and superiors hide priest abusers in other dioceses or other countries; *Diocesan officials hide or destroy documents that record knowledge of priest abusers; *Cardinals, bishops and superiors obstruct investigations whenever and however they can; **** The time for apologies and words is over. The Roman Catholic Church is sexually corrupt. The system of the Catholic Church selects, produces, hides, and defends sexual abusers. The pattern comes from the top and goes to the top. The practice is ongoing. A major reason the Catholic Church has failed to deal with criminal abuse of children is precisely that they treat it as sin. And church leaders are quick and persistent in reminding us “we are all sinners.” Catholic clergy (bishops especially) see themselves as the arbiters of sin and forgiveness. As a result they hold themselves above civil laws because they are “God’s representatives.” Bishops do not have to tell truth. And they don’t, even under oath.”

• seanomelbourne | Apr 16, 2011, 03:08 AM EDT

  maybe Diderot got it right "we'll hang the last king with the entrails of the last priest"

• edmicca | Apr 16, 2011, 12:12 AM EDT

  JuneAnnette - non-Catholic, the pattern of lying and deceit vis a vis the scandals is the calling card of the NYTimes and like minded media outlets, of organizations like Call to Action, We Are Church, Voice of the Faithful, etc.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 15, 2011, 11:43 AM EDT

  The doubts, the fears, the suspicions toward the hierarchy of the RCC, coupled with feelings of anger, disgust, frustration, disillusionment, and disenchantment that have been stirred up in the hearts and minds of the heretofore unquestioning “Catholic faithful” in the wake of the abuse scandal brought to light in our day are most solemn matters that try the faith of men. Many Roman Catholics who have been taught to Pay, Pray & Obey are now beginning to ask questions and many have found the moral courage and resolve to speak out in protest over these disturbing revelations which have shaken their faith to the core. These are soul-searching matters for those who take their religion seriously. This is not about the personal failings, faults, sins, of a few wayward priests and bishops, to which all men are subject, but rather it is about the spirit that is at work in the R.C.C. The consistent pattern of lying, deceit, secrecy and cover up that has characterized the manner in which the clergy abuse scandal has been addressed by those who have the spiritual rule simply cannot be reconciled with the teaching of Christ and evinces a worldly spirit rather than a Christlike spirit. We are exhorted in God's Word to “try the spirits whether they are of God.” (1 John 4:1 )

• 2BorNot2B | Apr 14, 2011, 09:14 PM EDT

  Sez ciarrai: **70% to 80% of those in the semenary [sic] are homosexuals.** The word you're looking for is semInary, and we'd all be interested in hearing about how you came up with those statistics. -- Were that the case it's for sure you'd have enrolled in one of them long ago, along with Cahir. But don't get your hopes up, you'd have a better chance of hooking up by sniffing around the Castro.

• edmicca | Apr 14, 2011, 05:53 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette, You tipped your hand when you say that Peter wasn't the first head of a continuous apostolic line of heads of the Church. The Church, the Bride of Christ, was given the power to bind and loose and was guaranteed by Christ to be forever free of error on matters of faith and morals. God speaks through his infallible Church headed by the vicar of Christ, and it is doctrinally infallible that Peter was the rock upon which Christ built his Church. It figures a former priest would twist the words of Matthew to arrive at an interpretation of Scripture that puts his ex-priestness in a good light.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 14, 2011, 05:35 PM EDT

  Gearoid4 . . I would commend you an article written by Richard Bennett, Biblical Apologist & former R.C. priest entitled . . . . 'The Papal Claim to Have the Keys of the Apostle Peter' in which he expounds Matthew 16 ***** Excerpt: Whatever his contemporaries apprehended Christ to be, this text of Scripture plainly shows that the disciples had a distinct knowledge of Him, expressed without hesitation by Peter on their behalf. The Lord attributes this intuitive knowledge that He was “the Christ” (Anointed-Messiah) and “the Son of the Living God” (co-eternal with the Father and therefore likewise God) to be a revelation from His Father in heaven. It is this revelation, the Lord declared, that would become the rock or foundation stone upon which He would build His Church. This can-not be argued against as it is the very concluding subject of the Lord’s charge to the disciples, “Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.” To hold the view that Peter himself is the rock is to deliberately pervert the plain sense of the Lord’s own words. To infer that the Church was built upon a mere man—and not upon God’s revela-tion of Jesus as the Christ, the Son of the living God—is to insult Christ’s doctrine and corrupt God’s Word." *****Source / Website: Berean Beacon*****God's Word as it is found in Ephesians 5:23 "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church; and he is the saviour of the body."

• JuneAnnette | Apr 14, 2011, 05:17 PM EDT

  edmicca . . . with respect to your comment: “"victims forced into a vow of silence" is a flat out lie. Two parties who freely enter into a non-disclosure settlement aren't forced into silence by anyone but their own voluntary consent.” ********** The case in point regarding Cardinal Brady was not a mutually agreed upon legal agreement. It was an IMPOSED / FORCED vow of silence upon the victim. Here's another excerpt. GOOGLE the article and read it in its' entirety for yourself! Source: Times Online - UK Article: 'Priest's victims forced into vow of silence' / by David Sharrock, Ireland Correspondent / March 15, 2010 ****** EXCERPT: The leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland resisted calls for his resignation yesterday, despite admitting that he took part in meetings where the victims of a paedophile priest were FORCED to take a vow of silence. Cardinal Sean Brady, the Primate of All Ireland, has confirmed he was present at a closed canonical tribunal in 1975 when two child victims of Father Brendan Smyth were ORDERED to sign agreements under oath that they would not discuss what happened to them with anybody other than an approved priest.

• Gearoid4 | Apr 14, 2011, 04:52 PM EDT

  @JulieAnnette, Contrary to your claims, the Catholic Church was founded by Christ upon the rock who was Peter(Matthew:16-19). He was the only one of the apostles to be handed the keys of authority which was bestowed on him directly by Jesus. This has a very strong biblical resonance as it mean't the handing over of headship of a household to the top steward while the master was absent. We cannot say that every stewardship has been covered in glory e.g the excesses of the renaissance popes or inquisitions. But Jesus promised that he would be with his Church until the end and hell would not prevail against it. The current papal incumbent Benedict XV1 recognizes the untold damage done to the reputation of the Church and moreover the priesthood the terrible abuse scandal. During the obsequies for Pope John Paul 11 in 2005 he referred to the 'filth' which had entered the church. Since his election he has done more than any other pope to combat this scourge. Last year for example, canon law was amended so that procedures to remove priests found guilty of abuse could be fast-tracked. Everything is far from perfect and a lot more needs to be done. But purgation will happen through the full church.

• Newrone | Apr 14, 2011, 04:09 PM EDT

  Well, it's quite clearly people like Donohue who are causing swathes of erstwhile Catholics to think again about their Church, their religion, their faith and their beliefs. ***** Someone pass him the microphone & let him finish lancing the boil.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 14, 2011, 03:15 PM EDT

  Edmicca . . The article referenced below entitled: 'Priest's victims forced into vow of silence' appeared in The TIMES online on March 15, 2010 and was written by David Sharrock, Ireland Correspondent / The leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland resisted calls for his resignation yesterday, despite admitting that he took part in meetings where the victims of a paedophile priest were forced to take a vow of silence. Cardinal Sean Brady, the Primate of All Ireland, has confirmed he was present at a closed canonical tribunal in 1975 when two child victims of Father Brendan Smyth were ordered to sign agreements under oath that they would not discuss what happened to them with anybody other than an approved priest. ******* Mr O’Gorman, a survivor of clerical abuse, said it was obscene that the victims were required to sign oaths of secrecy and that it was unthinkable for Cardinal Brady to remain as head of the Church in Ireland. “Whatever his youth, experience or supposed innocence back in 1975, I do not find his defence of ‘I was following orders’ remotely satisfactory,” he said. “He believed that this out-of-control paedophile had abused children and he did nothing to report this crime to the police either then, or it would appear, at any point over the next 20 years, during which Smyth continued to rape and abuse in parishes across the world with near impunity. Instead he took part in a cover-up of Smyth’s crimes.” Are you questioning the accuracy of Mr. Sharrock's reporting? ? ?

• JuneAnnette | Apr 14, 2011, 03:06 PM EDT

  edmicca to repeat . . I have done my homework! Article: Refusing to Recant, Keating Resigns as Church Panel Chief / June 17, 2003 Source: The New York Times Refusing to back down from his blunt words about Roman Catholic bishops, Frank Keating, former governor of Oklahoma, resigned yesterday as chairman of the church-appointed panel that is seeking to resolve the sexual abuse scandal involving priests and minors. ''I make no apology,'' said Mr. Keating, who compared some bishops to ''La Cosa Nostra'' last week, suggesting that they were continuing to cover up the extent of molestation by members of the clergy. The resignation letter sounded the same law-and-order note that Mr. Keating, a former prosecutor and F.B.I. agent, has used from the beginning. That tone had set him at odds with other members of the board, which is made up of prominent Catholics and includes lawyers, business figures, a psychiatrist and a former White House chief of staff, Leon E. Panetta. The church, he said in the letter, is a ''home to Christ's people.'' ''It is not a criminal enterprise,'' Mr. Keating said. ''It does not condone and cover up criminal activity. It does not follow a code of silence. My remarks, which some bishops found offensive, were deadly accurate. I make no apology. ''To resist grand jury subpoenas, to suppress the names of offending clerics, to deny, to obfuscate, to explain away; that is the model of a criminal organization, not my church.'' ******** My Comment: Mr. Keating spoke the TRUTH . . Roman Catholicism is not CHRIST's CHURCH

• edmicca | Apr 14, 2011, 02:57 PM EDT

  glorybe1929... with all due respect, you really don't know what you're talking about. Were there terrible abuses committed by priests? Yes. But if the rate of abuse by priests is lower than that of ministers of every Protestant denomination, less than that committed by rabbis, less than that of public school teachers, Boy Scout leaders, family members (the biggest offenders), then I ask you, how is the RCC worse than the secular world? Statistically, a boy is safer around a priest than he is around any other segment of the male population. The number of proven cases of abuse by a priest last year was less than 10. P.S. Ireland has sold its national soul on the abortion issue - where's your outrage there?

• edmicca | Apr 14, 2011, 02:43 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette...."victims forced into a vow of silence" is a flat out lie. Two parties who freely enter into a non-disclosure settlement aren't forced into silence by anyone but their own voluntary consent. This happens all the time. Christie Brinkley, serial bride, settled her divorce from her husband Peter Whatshisname with a non-disclosure agreement which means they both agreed they can't talk about the terms. No one forced them into the settlement. The same goes with the Church and victims when both parties agree to enter into a non-disclosure agreement. The Church can't order anyone to sign agreements they don't want to sign. You really need to do your homework.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 14, 2011, 02:36 PM EDT

  glorybe1929, Thank you for your encouraging words friend. I am equally blessed by your comments and have noted you are quite familiar with God's Word . . the Bible, as am I! I am 61 years old and was born and raised Catholic like yourself, as was my husband. We were compelled however to leave the RCC many years ago after much thoughtful and prayerful examination of their doctrines in the light of Scripture and strong conviction by the Holy Spirit. Prior to that we, like Thomas Doyle took the priests and bishops at their word. Now we are in truth disciples of Christ and as such, are guided solely by His infallible WORD! As one noted in another forum discussion . . and I quote: "A certain number of Catholics leave the Church because they examined the evidence and found it sadly wanting. Others leave because based on the conduct of the hierarchy they have concluded that their behavior hardly indicates that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit.” ***** I could not have said it more concisely, and Thomas Patrick Doyle has said essentially the same thing, as cited in one of my prior comments here. *** "Ye shall know them by their fruits." *** Matthew 7:16 "But by the grace of God I am what I am." *** 1 Cor. 15:10 *** To God alone by the glory!

• JuneAnnette | Apr 14, 2011, 02:05 PM EDT

  Edmicca: With respect to your comment: “By and large the SILENCE you talk about wasn't a conspiracy on the part of bishops" *****INDEED IT WAS and IS!***** Article: Priest's victims forced into vow of silence / March 15, 2010 David Sharrock, Ireland Correspondent / The leader of the Catholic Church in Ireland resisted calls for his resignation yesterday, despite admitting that he took part in meetings where the victims of a paedophile priest were forced to take a vow of silence. Cardinal Sean Brady, the Primate of All Ireland, has confirmed he was present at a closed canonical tribunal in 1975 when two child victims of Father Brendan Smyth were ordered to sign agreements under oath that they would not discuss what happened to them with anybody other than an approved priest. ******* Mr O’Gorman, a survivor of clerical abuse, said it was obscene that the victims were required to sign oaths of secrecy and that it was unthinkable for Cardinal Brady to remain as head of the Church in Ireland. “Whatever his youth, experience or supposed innocence back in 1975, I do not find his defence of ‘I was following orders’ remotely satisfactory,” he said. “He believed that this out-of-control paedophile had abused children and he did nothing to report this crime to the police either then, or it would appear, at any point over the next 20 years, during which Smyth continued to rape and abuse in parishes across the world with near impunity. Instead he took part in a cover-up of Smyth’s crimes.” Source: Times Online - UK

• glorybe1929 | Apr 14, 2011, 01:44 PM EDT

  EDMICCA....oH YES THE PRIESTS CAME IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT WITH THINGS A LOT WORSE THAN GUNS.THEIR PRIVATE PARTS USED AS INSTRUMRNTS OF DEATH TOO POOR CHILDERN AND BROTHERS (WHO DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER). My cousin, a holy Cross, notre Dame Brother told me all these stories when he left the order. I didn't believe him nor my sis in law a Dominican

• JuneAnnette | Apr 14, 2011, 12:58 PM EDT

  edmicca . . I have done my homework! Article: Refusing to Recant, Keating Resigns as Church Panel Chief / June 17, 2003 Source: The New York Times Refusing to back down from his blunt words about Roman Catholic bishops, Frank Keating, former governor of Oklahoma, resigned yesterday as chairman of the church-appointed panel that is seeking to resolve the sexual abuse scandal involving priests and minors. ''I make no apology,'' said Mr. Keating, who compared some bishops to ''La Cosa Nostra'' last week, suggesting that they were continuing to cover up the extent of molestation by members of the clergy. The resignation letter sounded the same law-and-order note that Mr. Keating, a former prosecutor and F.B.I. agent, has used from the beginning. That tone had set him at odds with other members of the board, which is made up of prominent Catholics and includes lawyers, business figures, a psychiatrist and a former White House chief of staff, Leon E. Panetta. The church, he said in the letter, is a ''home to Christ's people.'' ''It is not a criminal enterprise,'' Mr. Keating said. ''It does not condone and cover up criminal activity. It does not follow a code of silence. My remarks, which some bishops found offensive, were deadly accurate. I make no apology. ''To resist grand jury subpoenas, to suppress the names of offending clerics, to deny, to obfuscate, to explain away; that is the model of a criminal organization, not my church.'' ******** My Comment: Mr. Keating spoke the TRUTH . . Roman Catholicism is not CHRIST's CHURCH

• glorybe1929 | Apr 14, 2011, 11:28 AM EDT

  JuneAnnette...you've written a lot of stuff here . I have only read your last post and I totally agree with you. These are men and there is nothing special about them any more than you your father was to you or your husband is to your home. They are the priests of the family, not these intitutionally brainwashed evil doers. Iam 81 and was a daily communicant for over 50 years. I did every thing in the church,eucharistic minister, RCIA , etc., etc. having my own healing ministry in the Charismatic Renewal of the church. I would not believe credible witness to these Crimes Against Humanity until 2001 when we left with a priests blessing, which we didn't need but it was kind. He had FEAR. We didn't and are more than conquerers. Amen on the difference in all other abuse cases. The RCC is worse than the secular world. Even the Mafia wouldn't preach this crap. Pardon low life words. You write beautifully with great knowledge of the RCC. Keep up the good work.I'm starting to read it all.

• eiriamach | Apr 14, 2011, 11:25 AM EDT

  Take a look at William D. Lindsey's Bilgrimage blog: "But, ummm, yes, it is extreme to ally oneself with Bully Bill Donohue whom [John] Allen's own paper, the National Catholic Reporter, has labeled Billy the Bully. And about whose obnoxious crusade defending 'Catholic values,' which [NY] Archbishop Dolan endorses, Joe Feuerherd writes: 'The Catholic community’s response to this frequently subtle bigotry [against Catholics] is a buffoonish bully, a carnival barker posing as a defender of the faith. Such behavior might make for good television (which prefers heat to light) but it does nothing to help the church. In fact, it does considerable harm because it plays to the worst stereotypes of triumphalism, homophobia, misogyny and intolerance the church long since abandoned.'" "Long since abandoned"? Unfortunately, these forms of bigotry are back, placed front stage center as the public face of Catholicism in the NY Times, the USCCB website, and elsewhere. It's an embarrassment for anyone who was ever associated with Donohue's religion.

• edmicca | Apr 14, 2011, 11:15 AM EDT

  JuneAnnette...your gift for exaggeration is breathtaking. By and large the SILENCE you talk about wasn't a conspiracy on the part of bishops. It was legal advice tendered to anyone who settles out of court. Many of the victims refused to come forward not because of some nameless fear and intimidation by the Church but because of embarrassment. What fear and intimidation? Did bishops show up with guns at their houses in the middle of the night? Victims who didn't come forward to civil authorities often agreed to the common legal practice of accepting money in a non-disclosure agreement. This practice occurred across the board, not just in the Church. You can't dismiss out of hand abuses committed by public school teachers and relatives of victims. These folks committed FAR more offenses than clergymen and were VERY often protected by union contract from having anything done to them. Do your homework.

• olovely | Apr 14, 2011, 11:12 AM EDT

  "Were mistakes made in the past?" edmicca writes. Boy, howdy. "No agency today is doing more to help victims of abuse and more to prevent further abuse than the Catholic Church," he writes. That's ironic because no agency did more to hide and re-victimize the victims of abuse than the Catholic Church, too. For a factual based assessment of the abuse crisis (rather than a transparent attempt to protect the Church at all costs a la Donohue) visit the Bishop Accountability website.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 14, 2011, 11:04 AM EDT

  In the context of clergy abuse, the culture of SILENCE coupled with the organizational policy of COVER UP preserved by FEAR & INTIMIDATION makes the Roman Catholic Church unique! This has been consistently pointed out by those who have firsthand knowledge through their working relationships with Bishops & Cardinals over the years, as in the case of Patrick Thomas Doyle and others. To address Mr. Donahue's allegations regarding public schools, it must be pointed out that public schools are an entirely different entitity fom the “Holy Roman Catholic Church” which lays claim to being the “one true church of Jesus Christ.” Neither do public school teachers claim to be “Christ's representatives on earth”! Where and when did secular school districts, boards of education, or teachers’ unions ever conspire on an international scale to protect pedophile teachers, let alone transfer them, thus allowing them to continue to prey on children, as the Roman Catholic Church is proven in court to have done? Secular education authorities have never done what the Roman Catholic Church has done in protecting such dangerous villains, nor, being cognizant of who and what they are, allowing them to continue. Only the Church of Rome is repeatedly proven in court to be guilty of that magnitude of evil.

• edmicca | Apr 14, 2011, 10:59 AM EDT

  McNamara31...it's the NY Times and people like Cahir O'Doherty who are doing the deflecting when they dismiss out of hand verifiable data and make up their own and who distort the nature of the scandals while ignoring sexual abuse perpetrated by every other religious and non-religious entity. Bill Donohue isn't denying any of the problems caused by priests and bishops. He's not suggesting any guilty clergyman get away with what he's done. Where do you see that in his article? He's saying let's look at the actual facts and not be swayed by hyperbole. Were mistakes made in the past? Yes. But the NY Times would have you believe the Catholic Church invented abuse, when the truth is every other religious and non-religious entity has a higher rate of abusing the young. Make no mistake, one case of abuse is one too many. No agency today is doing more to help victims of abuse and more to prevent further abuse than the Catholic Church. There's not even a close second.

• McNamara31 | Apr 14, 2011, 08:59 AM EDT

  edmicca...I have read the original article and found it to be just another attempt at deflection. The problem that the church is dealing with, is unlike years ago where dark secrets could be buried, now documentation is easily accessible to those who really want to know the "truth" about their church, it's leadership, and it's past and present decisions. Some have chosen to "take up the Party line" and others would like to take the facts, hold those accountable for their decisions or lack of, remove those who intentionally allowed the harm of children, and move on in a church that Christ established with morals and integity.

• olovely | Apr 14, 2011, 01:06 AM EDT

  These anti-gay activists know that their claims are false. They've read the research from the most knowledgeable experts in the field, so they must know that the falsehoods they are spreading contradict what the researchers themselves are saying. But they keep spreading their accusations because they know how effective they are. It is easier to nauseate than it is to educate. It scapegoats someone else and creates a side issue. It removes the criminal aspect and the rape becomes some sort of consensual adult behavior.

• docmikey | Apr 13, 2011, 10:53 PM EDT

  Bill Donahue needs to go to confession - the nuns told me that lying was a sin.

• edmicca | Apr 13, 2011, 10:11 PM EDT

  quixotic, Why those who comment here can't stay on point is a mystery. 1. Bill Donohue wrote a piece in the NY Times. 2. Cahir O'Doherty commented on the piece, sort of. 3. These posts are supposed to be discussing Donohue's article and O'Doherty's comments. 4. Instead, the posts are all over the page, indicating no one read the very article that is the basis for the conversation. 5. How can you comment on something you haven't read? Most of the abuses took place decades ago, not recently. The accepted psychiatric and legal norms back then for treating adults who abused the young were as follows (this applied to clergy and non-clergy alike): 1. Provide counseling and psychiatric treatment for the abusers, inpatient if necessary. 2. Re-assign them after treatment, if necessary. 3. Victims unwilling to go to the civil authorities were to be offered a non-disclosure agreement of a monetary settlement, a common legal practice. 1. and 2. were done at the advice of the psychiatric profession, again, not only to clergymen but to all abusers. 3. was done at the recommendation of legal counsel, a practice still done today. To say that the transferral of priests was part of a plot by the bishops is to not understand the accepted practices of the day. Victims always had a right to go to the civil authorities. Many chose not to. This left the Church with the option of a mutually agreed upon monetary settlement. No one forced victims to take this route - again, they could have gone to the authorities. It isn't Donohue who is confused about homosexuality and pedophilia - it is you. Pedophilia, by definition, involves the abuse of young children. Abuse of post-pubescent males by a male is homosexuality, again, by definition of the psychiatric profession. Over 80% of the abuses involved post-pubescent males - therefore this is a homosexual problem, not a pedophilia problem. What's not to understand?

• quixotic | Apr 13, 2011, 09:30 PM EDT

  Donohue, like Bishop Dolan if he really wrote the essay about the airport confrontation, are doing incredible harm to the church and priests. I spent some time with the Oblates in Inchicore recently -- I love those old Irish priests. There is no excusing the actions of the deviant priests. However, the training of priests (taking them too young and keeping them isolated lest they lose their 'vocation') is a contributing factor. The church knew the danger, but they put the needs of the church (more vocations) over the needs of the individual human beings for whom the church is instituted to support The Bishops continued that behavior by denying what they knew, moving priests from one abusing situation to another, hiding it all because they didn't want to reflect negatively on the Church. Again, protect the institution at all cost. All the way to the Pope! Donohue has this thing (as do many catholics) about homosexuals. That is not the problem. He is just so arrogant to confuse homosexuality with pedophelia. First of all, most of the young men who ended up assaulting children were not homosexuals originally; secondly, homosexuals are no more inclined to pedophial than heterosexuals. Never had any respect for Donohue.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 13, 2011, 08:59 PM EDT

  My serious questioning started when I found myself on the inside looking out as the clergy sex abuse scandal started to unfold back in 1984. As I saw first-hand the duplicity and institutionalized lying of the self-proclaimed "successors of the Apostles" I slowly began to wonder if the apostles weren't actually a cabal of anti-Christian dolts or on the other hand, I wondered if the infallible connection between the popes, bishops and church monarchy was neither infallible nor divinely willed. It was not exactly a pleasant or secure feeling as my not-quite-paralyzed brain began to ask the inevitable question: "If they can easily lie about raping innocent little children, can they just as easily lie about everything else?" The next stop on the journey was actually the first stop: taking the risk of asking myself what was and was not true and viable about everything else I had been told to believe. I finally paused long enough to let soak in the reality of this deeply embedded dynamic: I (all of us actually) had been consistently told what I must believe. I had never been asked to believe or offered the option of figuring the basics out for myself. " This no longer worked for me. Article: 'Clergy Sexual Abuse Bibliography' / website: 'Richard Sipe . . Priests, Celibacy, and Sexuality'

• JuneAnnette | Apr 13, 2011, 08:58 PM EDT

  The soul searching reflections of Thomas P. Doyle, R.C. Priest & Clergy Abuse Victim's Advocate: “Over the course of my years of involvement with the clergy sexual abuse "happening" I have learned that the damage done to the spirituality of the victims has been considerable and in many ways, more difficult to deal with than either the emotional or psychological damage. The victims are not alone in suffering grave spiritual damage. Many of those directly or even indirectly involved with this whole complex phenomenon have found themselves in a growing quandary with their belief systems. I am one of them. For years my belief system and the objects of my faith were gradually shifting, often in ways I did not even notice. Most of what I had been taught about Faith, about Beliefs, about Trust in the human or earthly dimensions of the community of believers, the institutional Church, came under assault. I had believed what the official church had told me without much questioning. I accepted that the Church was what it was and I bought into all of the standard explanations for the historical departures of the institutional Church and its leaders from basic Christian decency and certainly from honesty...like the inquisition, the crusades, the approval of slavery, the colonization of the new world and the Vatican's diplomatic ties to Hitler and Mussolini. Article: 'Clergy Sexual Abuse Bibliography' / website: 'Richard Sipe . . Priests, Celibacy, and Sexuality'

• LilPaddy | Apr 13, 2011, 08:46 PM EDT

  Hi all, If Donohue wants proof that the R.C. Church was in full 'cover-up' mode since pre 1958... HAVE HIM CONTACT ME!! The evidence is in the form of video I got "inside" Daingean on August 31 & Sept. 1, 2011.....(I was a "Resident" there from 58to60)... I'll watch here on I.C. for his answer!!

• pilib04 | Apr 13, 2011, 08:15 PM EDT

  Donohue does not speak for me. I don't know why he is allowed to act as if he represents the Catholic Church.

• seanomelbourne | Apr 13, 2011, 07:20 PM EDT

  O'Donohue is a sanctimonious hypocrite and those defending him are just as bad.

• McNamara31 | Apr 13, 2011, 06:28 PM EDT

  edmicca... Data and facts to place "the abuses" in context. The Fr. Thomas Doyle mentioned below is a Catholic priest and canon laywer. After witnessing firsthand the various methods that the church used in the cases of abuse, he testified the following: "I have been an expert witness and/or consultant on clergy sex abuse cases for eighteen years involving over 500 separate cases in the United States, Canada, the U .K., Ireland, France, Germany, New Zealand, Australia and Israel." "I can readily attest to the fact that the common pattern and practice of the Institutional Roman Catholic Church authorities has been to handle reports of clergy sexual abuse with extreme secrecy, to avoid reporting such allegations to civil authorities, to use various tactics with victims and their families to coerce or even intimidate them from public disclosure or civil action, to fail to be proactive in providing adequate pastoral and psychological assistance and relief and to transfer alleged perpetrators from one assignment to another, often without telling the incoming assignment of the priest's background.""In my experience with victims lasting 18 years, I have met thousands of victims who have voiced their conviction that priests took the place of Jesus Christ and therefore they would be condemned to hell if they exposed a priest. My experience has also revealed that many victims failed to come forward for many years because of their intense fear, yet the severe traumatic pain of their abuse not only remained but intensified. The oldest victim I have worked with is today 92. She only revealed the abuse, which happened when she was 12, at the age of 91, and admitted bitterly that she has suffered the consequences for all the intervening years." Affidavit of Thomas Patrick Doyle (Davenport case)

• edmicca | Apr 13, 2011, 05:02 PM EDT

  Dear CitizenWhy,irishphoto,clarral,June Annette,adfloat23,mayoman and a few others. It is clear NONE OF YOU read Bill Donohue's full page piece earlier this week in the NY Times that begat Cahir O'Doherty's juvenile bashing of him. Mr. Donohue excused no one involved in the abuses. Rather, he provided data and facts taken from reliable studies and reports to place the abuses in context. Priests have a proven lower rate of abuse than the clergy of every religious denomination. a lower rate of abuse than that of any non-religious group, a lower rate of abuse than public school teachers, and a much lower rate of abuse than relatives of victims. Why don't the lot of you uninformed naysayers open your gob and say something about that? More than 80% of the victims were post-pubescent males, making this a homosexual problem. June Annette tosses numbers about like flower petals in the wind but she can support none of her claims. As for the Catholic Church, Christ guaranteed it will last until the end of time which is more than can be said for silly comments made by uninformed silly commentators.

• jacersagain | Apr 13, 2011, 04:32 PM EDT

  That's a non-sensical statement by olovely, sorry to say.

• olovely | Apr 13, 2011, 04:12 PM EDT

  What Donohue is really doing is showing us just how much the Catholic Church resents having to defend itself and pay up for decades of abuse it tried to hide.

• HorsesInMdstrm | Apr 13, 2011, 04:09 PM EDT

  @glorybe1929 - on the left side of your keyboard is a key labeled Caps Lock. If you push this you will find that your message comes out in script that most of us would pay more attention to. No need to thank me for the tip. By the way, wasn't Christ the biblical figure who gathered twelve apostles and seventy-two disciples around him? I forget how many of them were women, so feel free to enlighten me about the quantity. Thanks in advance.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 13, 2011, 02:53 PM EDT

  By way of postscript to my prior comments, the name of the Dominican priest I refer to is Patrick Doyle and his credentials follow: ******* “A Dominican priest with a doctorate in canon law and five separate master's degrees, Rev. Thomas Patrick Doyle, O.P. sacrificed a rising career at the Vatican Embassy to become an outspoken advocate for church abuse victims. Since 1984, when he became involved with the issue of sexual abuse of children by Catholic clergy while serving at the Embassy, he has become an expert in the canonical and pastoral dimensions of this problem—working directly with victims, their families, accused priests, bishops, and other high-ranking Church officials. Doyle has interviewed 2,000 victims of clerical sexual abuse in the U.S. alone, and has been the only priest to testify in court in over 200 cases as to the legal liability of the Church.”

• eiriamach | Apr 13, 2011, 02:53 PM EDT

  mrkennedy, check out "post hoc ergo propter hoc" as it relates to your post-Vatican II comment. The Pew Forum found that 71% of disaffected Catholics who left to join Protestant churches reported that Catholicism did not meet their spiritual needs. Among ex-Catholics who have not affiliated with another religion, 46% said the same, and most of the other respondents cited the poor atmosphere of worship services as their reason for leaving. 'Sorry to spoil your anti-Vatican II vendetta with the facts, but they simply do not support your über-conservatism. Next Advent, the number of those who leave because they are dissatisfied with Catholic liturgy/worship will surely rise. But what the heck--Bill Donohue will still be Catholic! That's a good enough reason to leave, right there. My vote of thanks goes to the media that have kept the spotlight on the abuse cases. There have been too many cases reported for 2010, and the number would have been much greater, I am sure, if the media had not shone a light into those nasty dark corners.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 13, 2011, 02:46 PM EDT

  The reflections of a Dominican priest and victim's advocate on the ongoing R.C. Clergy abuse scandal - Pt. 3 The bishops really believe that they are essential to the existence of the Church.  Therefore protecting the hierarchy is essential and believed to be God’s will.  The popes and the bishops did not have to conspire to keep sexual abuse by clergy buried as deeply as possible.  The secretive response is in the blood of the bishops.  It is rooted in the fundamental urge to survive.  Disruption and disintegration of the monarchical structures of the Church means the end of the system of power and control as we know it.  This poses an unthinkable threat to the clergy and to the clerical world.  The threat is personal because this world, this monarchical institution, this magical theological support system is the past, present and future of the bishops.  It is their source of identity.  To change or destroy it is a threat to the very being of the clerics who feed off of it.” Article: The secret secret of the Vatican / Andrew Brown’s Blog found here: 'Richard Sipe . . Priests, Celibacy, and Sexuality'

• JuneAnnette | Apr 13, 2011, 02:42 PM EDT

  The reflections of a Dominican priest and victim's advocate on the ongoing R.C. Clergy abuse scandal - Pt. 2 If all of these things were true!   The problem is that there is no authentic historical evidence that any of it is true.  The various titles, roles and offices attributed to popes, bishops and priests are not products of divine revelation but of human invention, often as a response and reaction to serious external threats to the power and wealth of the clerical aristocracy.  For example, and it’s a good example, Papal Infallibility was literally invented by Pope Pius IX and forced through the First Vatican Council...for political reasons.  The pope’s kingdom, the Papal States, was threatened with dissolution by the Italian social upheaval at the time.  Likewise the title “Vicar of Christ” was part of a conscious program of a medieval pope to fortify papal power.  This title has had a long and complex and by no means consistent history.  It was not applied to the Papacy until the 13th century when Pope Innocent III took it to enhance his overall program of actively concentrating just about all power in the Church in the papacy. Consequently this massive institution seeks above all to preserve itself.  Sexual abuse of children or anyone by members of the sacred elite is potentially disastrous for the image, credibility and hence the power of the Church. Article: The secret secret of the Vatican / Andrew Brown’s Blog found here: 'Richard Sipe . . Priests, Celibacy, and Sexuality'

• JuneAnnette | Apr 13, 2011, 02:38 PM EDT

  The reflections of a Dominican priest and victim's advocate on the ongoing R.C. Clergy abuse scandal - Pt. 1 “ . . the Church teaches that priests are fundamentally different than other humans. They are, in the words of John Paul II, uniquely configured to Christ. Catholics are taught to believe that priests are special. They represent Jesus Christ. They have very special spiritual powers. Their intercession is essential for anyone who wishes to make it to heaven in the next life. This teaching is the foundation for the clerical culture that runs the Church. Clericalism is the belief that clerics (deacons, priests and bishops) are superior to lay persons and are rightfully entitled to deference, unquestioned respect and exemption from many of the obligations born by most lay people. This clerical world is the home of the men who make up the Church power structure. The Church teaches that this structure is the church. To be a Catholic, one must believe totally in the teachings about the nature of the church strictures and the sacredness of the Church’s clerical ministers. If all of these teachings were true, would there be a need for all of the secrecy? If these teachings were true, especially about the “Christ-like” nature of priests and bishops, would there be such widespread corruption, dishonesty and abuse found among clerics at every level?” Article: The secret secret of the Vatican / Andrew Brown’s Blog found here: 'Richard Sipe . . Priests, Celibacy, and Sexuality'

• glorybe1929 | Apr 13, 2011, 02:32 PM EDT

  LET YOUR CHRISTIANITY BE STRONG! RELY ON THE TRINITY! READ THEIR BOOK !

• glorybe1929 | Apr 13, 2011, 02:30 PM EDT

  Without the cover-ups how could this CRIME AGAINST HUMANITY have continued til now??? It's been going on since Christ died and let the APOSTLES TAKE OVER.. St Paul WARNED THE NEW cHRISTIANS(IT'S ALL IN THE BIBLE) THAT THEY WERE TO STICK WITH WHAT JESUS TOLD THEM AND NOT DEVIATE FROM IT. He said, "there would be infiltrators,(like the Pharasees) who would COME INTO THEIR LITTLE GROUPS and change the Gospels and make them according to what their belief was at the time . THE PEOPLE ARE THE CHURCH...NO ONE ELSE. CHRIST WILL NOT BE PUT IN A BOX. HE LOVES HIS CHURCH AND NOT THE R C INSTITUTION. AND DIDN'T START IT!!! CHRISTIANITY IS WHAT HE STARTED.THE PHARASEES STARTED THE ROMAN THING. Bill Donohue is (pardon my rub) an ENABLER OF EVIL.

• Gearoid4 | Apr 13, 2011, 12:49 PM EDT

  @irishphotograph, The Catholic Church was indeed founded by Our Lord. The Keys of authority were given to none other than St Peter who with St Paul were the joint patrons of the fledgling church in Rome. Currently we are seeing the outworking of a purgative process that will rid the Church of the administrative malpractices and tolerance for deviance that recent revelations have made known.

• Nicomax | Apr 13, 2011, 12:39 PM EDT

  Donahue needs a publicity fix every now and then. If he is helping to cover up crimes, particularly those against minors, no matter their gender, then he should be arrested, Would he condone this behavior for public school teachers or coaches? No, so why should a private organization get away with such criminal behavior?

• JuneAnnette | Apr 13, 2011, 12:21 PM EDT

  The outrage over the R.C. Clergy Abuse Scandal Cover Up can best be summed up in the words of Victim Advocate, Anne Barrett Doyle: Source: National Survivor Advocates Coalition Article: “This was a modern day prophet speaking God’s message in the temple.” Tuesday March 29 at Boston College: Protesting the Talk by Cardinal Roger Mahony "Later Paul Kellen and Anne Barrett Doyle attended Mahony’s talk. After being ignored during the question period, Doyle addressed the cardinal as he was leaving. She asked if he was relieved not to be in jail considering he abetted the rape and sodomy of hundreds of children by priests under his control. Doyle then addressed the audience asking how they could remain passive considering the Cardinal’s deeds. She also addressed the head of the Theology department who had ignored the abuse scandal in her introduction of the Cardinal. Her remarks were received with an uneasy silence. This was a modern day prophet speaking God’s message in the temple." Paul Kellen

• bootsjoyce4 | Apr 13, 2011, 12:13 PM EDT

  I tried to join his group a couple yrs. ago and dues were like $45 a year.That sent a red flag and needless to say, I did'nt join.

• HorsesInMdstrm | Apr 13, 2011, 11:58 AM EDT

  Hey, a few years, a coupla miracles, the longevity of the current pope - maybe he can be St. William of Apology.

• Irishphotograph | Apr 13, 2011, 11:45 AM EDT

  That man is a scumbag! I heard him on Today FM belittling the rape of Irish children and the cover up by the Roman church....the Roman church is NOT the church Jesus established,,,a Christian church is a gathering of believers, no hierarchy or political power...the sooner we can rid Ireland of the Roman church i.e. dead religion the sooner the Spirit of God can work among us..

• mrkennedy | Apr 13, 2011, 11:22 AM EDT

  Note that 98% of the paedophile priests ACTIONS began after VATICAN 11 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• jcaulfield | Apr 13, 2011, 11:03 AM EDT

  The Church's big mistake is it's declaration "life begins at conception". This opened the door for a multitude of sexual transgressions, because many people are able to convince themselves therefore, that there is no 'life' before conception and they feel free to engage in any sexual act where there can be no conception.

• CitizenWhy | Apr 13, 2011, 10:35 AM EDT

  Was it homosexual priests who abused all the young girls? Weren't nearly 50% of the victims female?

• CitizenWhy | Apr 13, 2011, 10:27 AM EDT

  This man is a self-appointed one man show, a media darling for representing all Catholics as belligerent and ignorant. ... The sexual abuse was bad enough. But the scandal that outraged most Catholics was the systematic cover-up, in the US, by ALL bishops of outrageously sinful, criminal, and serially committed soul-destroying behaviors on the part of priests. Why? Who knows the dark hearts of bishops? Maybe they were desperate to keep the number of priest from shrinking further.

• ciarrai | Apr 13, 2011, 10:27 AM EDT

  70% to 80% of those in the semenary are homosexuals.

• Trealach | Apr 13, 2011, 10:18 AM EDT

  What about the paedophile irish journalist - the media are doing a great job in keeping his identity secret. How many more of them are out there sourcing kids? Seems like paedophiles in the media can do that with impunity.

• Cmullaney | Apr 13, 2011, 09:58 AM EDT

  Gotta give Donahue credit. he keeps bloviating and you guys keep covering him.

• mayoman | Apr 13, 2011, 09:56 AM EDT

  You're right on the money, Cahir. Donohue will continue to be an ineffective apologist for The Church as long as he intentionally continues to mistake the criminals for the victims. Donohue should recognize that there is no defense against the truth.

• adfloatj23 | Apr 13, 2011, 09:47 AM EDT

  Donahue shows his real colors, He has his head up his ass, Just like the leaders of the now defunct catholic church,

• mikehoulihan | Apr 13, 2011, 09:45 AM EDT

  Niall, why do you let this guy continually bash the Catholic church in his column? That and his gay agenda are the only things he writes about. Get rid of this writer please!

• olovely | Apr 13, 2011, 09:21 AM EDT

  Bishopaccountability.org, the watchdog group that represents the rights of the abused (and not the Church, as Donohue does) writes that "it's a myth that homosexuality caused the abuse crisis. The fact is that no one knows the exact percentage of priests who are homosexual. Estimates have ranged from 10 percent to 60 percent. In any case, most homosexual priests were not involved in the sexual abuse of minors."

• olovely | Apr 13, 2011, 09:19 AM EDT

  GeorgeDillion obviously perfers to abuse people than debate them. This article makes it clear that Donohue is attempting to scapegoat one group who had nothing to do with it to distract us from the real crimes of the Church and the priests.

• GeorgeDillon | Apr 13, 2011, 02:56 AM EDT

  O'Doherty remains as much of a fool as ever. I stopped after his first abusive sentence--"self-appointed head of his own watchdog organization". What the hell is wrong with founding an organization, you dope? And if you found an organization who's going to deny you the right to head it, you oaf O'Doherty?

• edmicca | Apr 13, 2011, 01:00 AM EDT

  McNamara31, I agree...if minor is molested it's a crime. Victims always have the right to go to the authorities. Why many of them didn't is beyond me. The Boston DA found no crimes committed by the bishops. Same on Long Island. But all this misses the point of my post which is this - Cahir O'Doherty's article doesn't address any of the facts stated in Bill Donohue's full page NY Times ad, and neither do you. Why don't you start with Mr. Donohue's article and then post a comment here? No one's ignoring what priests and bishops may have done, but we won't accept the exaggerations and lies on this issue perpetrated by the likes of the NY Times and Mr. O'Doherty. Do you know that the number of students abused by public school teachers is 100 times higher than the number abused by priests? Where is your outrage on that?

• McNamara31 | Apr 12, 2011, 10:26 PM EDT

  @edmicca... "With a substantiated 80 % of the victims post-pubescent boys, the problem is, by definition, a homosexual one" When a parent sends their post-pubescent "minor" to church or school and they are manipulated into a sexual encounter by an adult priest, that also, is not only abuse, but a crime. As for Mr. O'Doherty, coming across the pond to find out the facts firsthand maybe you could discuss the finding of the Boston and Long Island grand jury reports, for they clearing document for all, the reality of how badly the victims where treated by the bishops and the church.

• edmicca | Apr 12, 2011, 08:34 PM EDT

  Cahir O'Doherty should do himself a favor and read what Bill Donohue wrote. He didn't say the Church was the victim of the crisis - he said the Church is the victim of the media's misrepresentation of the crisis and its misrepresentation of the Church. Mr. O'Doherty's article is just such a misrepresentation. With a substantiated 80 % of the victims post-pubescent boys, the problem is, by definition, a homosexual one. Contrary to Mr. O'Doherty's unsubstantiated claim, in the USA the Church has a staggeringly low number of priest abusers and an abuse rate lower than that of any organization, religious or non-religious. Statistically, a boy stands a much greater chance of being abused by his Uncle Cahir than he does by his parish priest. Further, no organization in the States has done more for the victims of abuse and more to prevent abuse than the Catholic Church. Mr. Donohue's claims are all substantiated in reliable reports and studies, while Mr. O'Doherty fails to back up any of his claims. Instead, he attempts to prove his case via argument by wild speculation. I invite you, Mr. O'Doherty, to swim across the pond where I'll be happy to show you firsthand just what facts and true investigative reporting look like. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

• jacersagain | Apr 12, 2011, 07:44 PM EDT

  Speak for yourself irishhaveit. My Catholic faith is strong, though I’m just an ordinary man of the street. Don’t you know that Communism in Russia & Eastern Europe collapsed because of the power of Rosary Prayers said by many millions of Catholics at the request of the Lady of the Rosary? Don’t you know of a simple Polish harbour docks labourer, Mr. Lech Walesa, and his Rosary Beads? Don’t you know that the late Pope John Paul II, a Polish man, wrote a one-page letter to Russian President Mikhail Gorbachev when he threatened to over-run the Polish peoples’ country as he lined up his huge army of tanks for an invasion of Poland to break the dockers' strikes? Don’t you know that the letter said simply “Withdraw your tanks or I will abdicate from the See of St. Peter and stand at the barricades with my people in front of your tanks”? Gorby knew he was beaten by that one-page letter and withdrew his tanks... and thereafter Communism collapsed. Why? Because Gorby knew that not only would Polish Catholics stand in front of his tanks alongside their Pope – Catholics from all over the world would make their way to Poland's Russian borders too. Speak for yourself irishhaveit – there are over a billion of us who would tell you your faithlessness will bring no rewards or comfort. Join us in faith - and be at peace.

• irishhaveit | Apr 12, 2011, 07:04 PM EDT

  just to let you know that i do not follow faith as i believe it is also the makeing of the wars and capitalism in the world today, but i do believe that what go's around comes around and that there is no faith in the said faiths of today

• irishhaveit | Apr 12, 2011, 06:55 PM EDT

  We are all suffering due to religion in our every day lives, but the most important part is that the laws said there's a prosecution in the case of abuse and its every man/womans duty to see that the perpetrators are convicted and brought to justice, nothing to do with stigmatisation if there is it's because of the state of nature and what it do's to protect the vulnerable and condem/convict those who prayed there acts on those who were or were not vulnerable, dont believe that any body is not vulnerable we all are in all faiths that is followed god bless a keep safe the vulnerable, would any of what i have writen so far have anything to do with what the mothers and fathers who's children were victums of the abuse they were dealt, blame themselves for it? let alone any of the suffering they are suffering today and why? this is a form of media so why blame them for what and who did what and to whom answer?

• Brolaur | Apr 12, 2011, 06:48 PM EDT

  What I meant was that The Pope should be in Sackcloth and Ashes

• Brolaur | Apr 12, 2011, 06:44 PM EDT

  The Pope should once again go to "Canossa".

• SCVMal | Apr 12, 2011, 06:08 PM EDT

  Donohue and the National Organization for marriage are lackeys of the Church, paid to twist arms...and the truth!

• Collette2 | Apr 12, 2011, 05:07 PM EDT

  What a lot of rubbish. It's the faith that has been put into disrepute before the world, mothers bringing their children to be sacrificed like lambs to be slaughtered at the pagan temples not born in the image of God. We all look like a bunch of hypocrites. I wonder how many indulgences you will receive Mr Donohue or maybe a papal knighthood.

• McNamara31 | Apr 12, 2011, 03:20 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette.. Your post is sadly true and on point. The HUGE issue is how the church chose to handle the cover up instead of protecting the children. They turned their backs on Christian teaching and no one, not even the very "loud" Bill Donohue can spin that "right". Because of their lack of spiritual integrity, dealing with the issue the church now bears the brunt of jokes that would have never been told twenty years ago. They themselves, caused the lack of "respect" shown towards the church and clergy. And lastly, this church that was the legacy of those who brought their faith to these shores, building the schools and hospitals is being destroyed by the men in Rome who chose their corporate answer and not simply, the Christian one. Bill your outrage should be directed to Rome and not the media, who did more to protect the victims than you or the church ever did.

• hancock | Apr 12, 2011, 02:15 PM EDT

  The whole church should convert to Islam and they will never have another problem on this site.

• Gearoid4 | Apr 12, 2011, 01:43 PM EDT

  Possibly Bill may have some well-argued points here that go against the picture painted by the popular media and pundits regarding the whole sex-abuse phenomena. It enrages the bien-pensants of the left that this is so. I wonder what would be Mr O'Doherty's stanze regarding certain religious groups who are experiencing the same scrutiny. We should not hold our breaths regarding a critical reaction.

• olovely | Apr 12, 2011, 12:23 PM EDT

  The reports by the John Jay College of Criminal Justice and the National Review Board for the Protection of Children and Young People provided confirmation of hunches and the destruction of myths. At the same time, they left many questions unanswered. The myths have been promoted by people on both sides of the debate - those who want to beat up on the church and those who want to downplay the crisis. Source: BishopAccountability.org

• olovely | Apr 12, 2011, 12:22 PM EDT

  Myth: Most of the abuse occurred with older teenagers. Fact: Only 15 percent of the victims were 16 to 17 years of age; 51 percent were between the ages of 11 and 14.

• olovely | Apr 12, 2011, 12:22 PM EDT

  Myth: Homosexuality caused the abuse crisis: Fact: No one knows the exact percentage of priests who are homosexual. Estimates have ranged from 10 percent to 60 percent. In any case, most homosexual priests were not involved in the sexual abuse of minors.

• JuneAnnette | Apr 12, 2011, 12:00 PM EDT

  Mr. O'Doherty has stated that which I strongly suspect many Roman Catholics think in their hearts but who in the main, lack the moral courage to say so publicly. What is at issue is the corporate character of the RCC and the principles of trust . . credibility . . accountability . . integrity which has been jettisoned in order to preserve their reputation and that of their priests and bishops. The painful truth is that the corporate image of the “holier than thou” Roman Catholic Church has been marred and tarnished beyond repair by the unholy conduct of her sanctimonious priests and bishops who now must endure the humiliation and reproach that they imposed upon their countless victims over decades of unchecked abuse. Roman Catholicism can no longer claim the moral high ground. A religious institution that has consistently been proven to place its' corporate image and the reputation of her priests above the welfare of children provides compelling reasons to opt out of the Roman Catholic church, as I . . and many others have! I would say any anti-Catholic sentiment being expressed in the light of these matters is well-deserved.

• dennis218 | Apr 12, 2011, 11:47 AM EDT

  According to the John Jay College of Law--which conducted a comprehensive study of all abuse claims--80% of all incidents involved priests abusing teenage boys. This is a homosexual abuse crisis. Pedophiles prefer pre-pubescent children of either sex.