Archbishop Timothy Dolan's gay bashing letter to President Obama
By: Cahir O'Doherty | Published Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 7:13 PM | Updated Tuesday, November 1, 2011, 7:13 PM
Look at Canada.
On July 20, 2005, Canada became the fourth country in the world and the first country in the Americas to legalize same-sex marriage with the enactment of the Civil Marriage Act.
By 2011 the only major social change that has occurred is that gay people have almost total equality under Canadian law.
That's nice for them, isn't it?
The erosion of traditional marriage, the marginalization of religion and the complete breakdown of the family, still so fretted over by some conservatives, hasn't happened. At all. Nor will it. Gays are family too, after all.
So what to make of Archbishop Timothy Dolan? This week he sent a letter to President Obama outlining his growing alarm about actions the Obama administration has taken that he believes 'escalate the threat to marriage and imperil the religious freedom of those who promote and defend marriage.'
What imperiling threats is he talking about?
The Justice Departments decision to no longer defend DOMA (the Defense of Marriage act) claiming that it's unconstitutional.
The administration's support of the Every Child Deserves a Family Act, which would prohibit discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity in foster care and adoption placement.
The repeal of DADT (Don't Ask, Don't Tell).
'In sum,' Archbishop Dolan wrote, 'these recent actions undermine certain fundamental truths about the nature of the human person—the equal importance of mothers and fathers to children, and the unchangeable meaning and nature of marriage as a communion of the sexes. They also oppose the deeply rooted consensus among the American people in support of the authentic definition of marriage and laws that reflect it. These actions also harm the common good by imperiling the religious freedom of those who hold these truths and defend these laws.'
Reading the overheated language of Dolan's letter, and bemused by the massively overstated nature of the 'threat,' it occurred to me that we might start a campaign to have the archbishop visit Toronto.
Perhaps the Canadian Tourist Board could step up too? We could call it something fun like Vancouver Vanquishes Dolan's Vapors, or Toronto Terminates Dolan's Tantrums. It's quite clear he needs to get out more.
READ MORE
Archbishop Timothy Dolan and the Zombie ApocalypseChurches that play politics should pay taxesMassachusetts Catholic mother inundated with gays - Stacy Trasancos' missive on gay familiesOf course 2012 being an election year, it's not an accident that Archbishop Dolan is suddenly alarmed about the pace of change gay rights have achieved. His letter is, on the face of it, an attempt to intimidate the president through the voting block that - apparently - still gives its allegiance to the Archbishop.
But it's a bit odd, in the modern world, to see a Catholic bishop make a not-so-veiled threat to a head of state. After all United States laws are governed by the Constitution, not the Vatican. We didn't elect Archbishop Dolan to be the spokesman on anything. And his opinion, such as it is, is therefore no more or less valid than any other citizens.
Being Irish, I find it especially startling that a Catholic leader would make so a public stand on this marginal issue when it's quite clear that God's work might prioritize others.
Record numbers of American children are going to bed hungry every single night. 50 million people were unable to put food on the table at some point last year. Where's Dolan's letter about that escalating threat?
And the speed and sincerity with which he engages in the cultures wars stands in very sharp contrast to the Vatican's decades long indifference and foot-dragging over the international child abuse scandals.
Would that Archbishop Dolan could follow the example of Jesus himself and seek out peace and good fellowship, rather than go out of his way to sow suspicion and discord.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.PhlutiePhan | Jan 18, 2012, 09:45 AM EST
Mr. O'Doherty states that the good archbishop is reaching out to fire up a voting block against the president. I would remind him of the top heavy number of radical Catholic women in the administration in positions of authority such as Sebelius and Solis. There are a limited number of cabinet positions. The Catholic leadership except for Dolan is socialistic in nature and even went to the point of "running now Cardinal Raymond Burke "out of town" for his anti-pro abortion stance against these same prominent politicians. Recently, Dolan visited the president in the White House and came away saying that he saw a glimmer of hope. Of just such thoughts for the German and Austrian bishops are what brought the National Socialists to power.
eiriamach | Sep 23, 2011, 12:50 PM EDT
Obvious Math Mistake below. That's 47% of all respondents gave low grades. less than 20% gave high grades. You can figure out how many gave 'C.'
eiriamach | Sep 23, 2011, 12:47 PM EDT
One more statistic, on how people rate their churches' attitudes toward homosexuality: In a nationwide poll, of all religious groups, "Catholics were most likely to give their churches negative marks, with nearly one-third giving their churches a 'D' (15%) or an 'F' (16%)." That's 47% of Catholics grading their churches low. "One-third (33%) of the public also believe that messages from religious bodies are contributing 'a lot' to higher rates of suicide among gay and lesbian youth, and another third (32%) say these message contribute 'a little;' only 21% say they do not contribute at all." (Oct. 2010, by Public Religion Research Institute, online).
eiriamach | Sep 23, 2011, 12:41 PM EDT
falconflash, if, as you boast, you "say horrible things about gays," then according to AB Dolan, you are not a good Catholic. Obviously, you think that Dolan's opposition to gay rights gives you the right to make hateful comments about gays. You've given us a fine example of the real results of the USCCB's campaign against gay rights. It breeds bigots! Dolan can claim that Catholics "reject all hatred and unjust treatment of any person," but the proof is in the pudding, and I smell a stinky pudding... sniff, yuck!
snakehips | Sep 23, 2011, 11:28 AM EDT
Do all of you "holier than thou", "psuedo and amatuer theologians" really believe that gay people choose to be gay so that they can be picked on, dicriminated against,chatised,accused of demonic qualities and made to feel less than human? I can just envision Jesus angrily turning over your tables in your hateful temples.
falconflash | Sep 23, 2011, 10:56 AM EDT
People say horrible things about the Cardinal yet are allowed to post.... I say horrible things about gays and I'm banned. Irish Central is a liberal, left-wing anti-Catholic web site.
eiriamach | Sep 23, 2011, 10:27 AM EDT
I've quoted enough papal encyclicals for one day (Gaudium et Spes below), but if Catholics will consult Lumen Gentium online, they will see that bishops have a duty to listen to their flocks. In fact, Vatican II made it part of the meaning of infallibility that bishops and lay Catholics should consider it the work of the Holy Spirit when they reach a consensus on moral issues. I think Catholics call it "sensus fidelium," the "sense of the faithful." Dolan needs to talk less and listen more-- not only to his "brother bishops."
eiriamach | Sep 23, 2011, 10:16 AM EDT
Mayoman is right and angelprecious is clearly wrong. According to a May 13, 2011 Pew Research Center article, "Among religious groups, substantial majorities of the religiously unaffiliated (79%), white Catholics (66%) and white mainline Protestants (65%) say that homosexuality should be accepted. Most people-- including most Catholics-- oppose discrimination against gays. Dolan is in the one-third of white Catholics who favor it.
mayoman | Sep 23, 2011, 08:32 AM EDT
Oldboreen: Right off the top of my head I can instantly come up with at least ten Catholics I know personally that support gay marriage. Yes, actual marriage! And these men and women have no problem voicing their opinion on the issue. Not all Catholics are conservative, closed-minded and/or reactionary. And not all Catholics feel threatened by gay men or women; many of which serve in the clergy.
eiriamach | Sep 23, 2011, 07:51 AM EDT
Can it EVER be right to deny equal protection of the law to any group on the basis of religion, ethnicity, economic status, gender or sexual orientation? Not according to RCC teaching: "Respect and love ought to be extended also to those who think or act differently than we [Catholics] do in social, political and even religious matters." Therefore, "with respect to the fundamental rights of the person, EVERY TYPE OF DISCRIMINATION, whether social or cultural, whether based on sex, race, color, social condition, language or religion, is to be overcome and eradicated as contrary to God's intent." Dolan has led the US bishops shamefully far astray not only from US Constitutional principles, but even from their own Church teaching and the example of Christ, who "entered this world to give witness to the truth, to rescue and not to sit in judgment" (Gaudiam et Spes, 1965). The newly formed US Association of Catholic Priests, by contrast, states its purpose as "full implementation of the vision and teachings of the Second Vatican Council with special emphasis on the primacy of the individual conscience, the status and participation of all the baptized, and the task of establishing a church where all believers will be treated as equals." Dolan and the USCCB are old-school; change is on the horizon.
eiriamach | Sep 23, 2011, 05:19 AM EDT
It's difficult for me to believe that Dolan's letter, which turns on an equivocation between "prejudice" and "discrimination," is sincere. Can he really be that lacking in intelligence? Can he underestimate the intelligence of Obama and the Dept. of Justice so completely? If he is sincerely that stupid, he will soon qualify for his scarlet silk cardinal's skullcap and mantle.
eiriamach | Sep 23, 2011, 05:11 AM EDT
Dolan's "Analysis of Recent Federal Threats to Marriage" claims that Catholics can reject marriage equality for gays and still "recognize the immeasurable personal dignity and equal worth of all individuals, including those with same-sex attraction, and...reject all hatred and unjust treatment against any person." He argues further that Catholics must be allowed, under the US Constitution's guarantee of religious freedom, to act on "their moral and faith-based convictions," which require that they reserve marriage to heterosexuals. This letter is classic double-speak. He equates discrimination with prejudice and denies that Catholic "belief" is prejudiced. But the US Constitution does not prohibit prejudice! It prohibits discrimination and leaves everyone free to adopt any prejudice OR 'religious conviction.' Of course discrimination is often motivated by prejudice, but it's possible for even racists and sexists to obey anti-discrimination laws and treat everyone fairly, just as it's possible for fair-minded people to treat a racial or sexual group unfairly (by applying a policy from segregation era or pre-Title VII-era, for ex.). The Constitution requires equal treatment of all-- REGARDLESS of personal feelings or religious beliefs. It's just silly to think that Catholics can respect the "equal worth of all individuals, including those with same-sex attraction" in the CONSTITUTIONAL SENSE while their religious "convictions" require them to deny equality in any social institution, such as marriage, to any group.
hollabackgurl | Sep 23, 2011, 12:57 AM EDT
Dolan's letter states that there are two tiers of human being: the natural and the unnatural. That's hateful garbage. There are only two sexes, it's probably a good thing if you're attracted to one or the other. And he didn't write about the plight of the poor to the president, he instead targeted gays. That tells you which issue he attaches more importance to.
JimMcGarity | Sep 22, 2011, 11:21 PM EDT
It's not gay bashing. It's the truth, look around you!
stanJames | Sep 22, 2011, 10:48 PM EDT
The church is having its last hurrah and fighting its battle of the bulge. which it will surely lose if all the good people - catholics and others speak out against it, and cut off the funds that support its agenda of terrorism against gay people and child abuse..............BTW re its campaign to support life - its a smokescreen to hide its own crimes, including responsibility for the hatred of Jews who wouldnt convert - the hatred that underlayed german society and gave us WWII and the holocaust
stanJames | Sep 22, 2011, 10:26 PM EDT
Trup says: What about all the secrets gay organizers keep like higher rates among gays of drug abuse, domestic violence, depression, suicide ...............There he is blaming the victims of the churches hatred and demonization.....And if you want to reduce STDs what better way then to entangle gays into marriage, where getting out is a financial and emotional toll.................. He is actually replicating the words of various hate groups like NOM, the family research council and AFA. All listed as hate groups per the Southern Poverty Law center. A group that fought for the ending of segregation etc etc, and now helps other demonized groups as well............................ BTW the church gave the hate group NOM 2.3 million in NY re trying to stop marriage for gays Read more: http://www.irishcentral.com/story/ent/manhattan_diary/archbishop-timothy-dolans-gay-bashing-letter-to-president-obama-130346308.html#ixzz1YjprFY42
stanJames | Sep 22, 2011, 10:19 PM EDT
Angelprecioous talks about bringing back values....... I guess she means the values of hiding endless molestation of children, and demonizing gay people. Helping to give America , per a Psych I know, 3000 gay kids committing suicide every year............... Well, thats an interesting way how the church protects life of gay kids - giving us a 9-11 every year of driven to suicide gay children. There should be another war - against the murderers. We could pay off a significant part of the national debt with the church's trillions, and do so much for the poor still suffereing tks to Bush's deregulation of Ponzi Street NYC.
stanJames | Sep 22, 2011, 10:15 PM EDT
Angel precious says yes we had a few priests molesting etc etc...............A few - more then tens of thousands..................................Just google "country name - catholic church molestation"........ And be horrified.
stanJames | Sep 22, 2011, 10:13 PM EDT
angel precious says many catholics dont support gay marriage. Obfuscating the issue - a majority about 53% do support gay civil marriage. 70 % of younger catholics support gay civil marriage.
stanJames | Sep 22, 2011, 10:12 PM EDT
Dolan has been suggested as the next Pope. RATZInger is about 84 years old. And there has never been an American pope...................................... He would sell his soul for the job, if he hasnt already re the molested kids
stanJames | Sep 22, 2011, 10:09 PM EDT
Dolans former diocese of Milwaukee went bankrupt in Jan, 2011, due to the endless hidden molestation of children. He had 7 years to unravel the molestation and did nothing until the courts intervened.....BTW he's now part of the group of bishops looking into molestation issues s- the fox guarding the henhouse.
stanJames | Sep 22, 2011, 09:48 PM EDT
Oh another flap by Dolan is re medical insurance covering birth control. He tries to say that birth control is being forced on people against their beliefs........Ignoring that people have a choice in their bedrooms what they do, and that polls consistently show that USA catholics use artificial brith control 94-96% of the people. the guy is actually a pathological liar.
stanJames | Sep 22, 2011, 09:45 PM EDT
Just go to the website HTTP://NOBELIEFS.COM/NAZIS.HTM to understand what the church is about. Power and money and each feeds the other. The only question is whether they made a pact with the devil (the concordant with the nazis about 1933) or it is actually the Devil himslef in disguise.
joan1954 | Sep 22, 2011, 07:53 PM EDT
actually hollowbackgirl, and I know this isn't a right spelling but I'm not going back to look for the proper I have had that happen to me where the issue was yelled out and the guy said what he thought. But he apologized later and said that he had too much to drink. As I told him then and still believe this that you can't expect openness up front that it take time for people to change. I resent your insinuation I know what I'm talking about. I think all groups need to step back and calm down.
SWAT1988 | Sep 22, 2011, 07:27 PM EDT
@ Cahir O'Doherty :: two points to consider 1) "Gay bashing" -- as you conveniently left out of your article, Dolan's letter contains explicit support for the dignity and worth of gay people. As such, where's the bashing? Having a different opinion than your own on same-sex marriage doesn't suffice to be called bashing. 2) "Where's Dolan's letter about that [poverty] escalating threat?" It's right here: (http://tinyurl.com/3tlp337) Next time, do a bit more research before writing an ignorant comment into your article.
docmikey | Sep 22, 2011, 06:43 PM EDT
Maybe the Archbishop is jockeying for a cushy job at the Vatican like his colleague Cardinal Law.
hollabackgurl | Sep 22, 2011, 05:40 PM EDT
And if you actually did have a gay brother you're an awful disloyal old wagon to be promoting policies and institutions that discriminate against him.
hollabackgurl | Sep 22, 2011, 05:35 PM EDT
You don't have a single gay friend or you would know being gay is an orientation not a 'lifestyle' just as being heterosexual is an orientation not a 'lifestyle.' You didn't choose to be heterosexual (unless you're more interesting than I believe you are) any more than a homosexual choose to be gay. If you had actual gay friends, as I do, you would know that.
AngelPrecious | Sep 22, 2011, 05:07 PM EDT
@hollabackgurl: Actually, I have a few gay friends and even a gay brother. I don't personally agree with their lifestyle (because I believe we are called to holiness, to chastity outside of marriage) but I love them and my brother dearly! I definitely oppose gay marriage and surprisingly so does my brother!
AngelPrecious | Sep 22, 2011, 04:59 PM EDT
ROFL, Trealach!
ChrisVogel | Sep 22, 2011, 04:58 PM EDT
Typical of the Roman church, and religious people in general: everyone else must do what they want, and the powers of the state must be used to impose this on the whole society. Still, better than the old days; modern secular governments do not permit their traditional response to difference: torture and mass murder. These are the "religious freedoms" in question, as well as the freedom from criticism.
hollabackgurl | Sep 22, 2011, 02:49 PM EDT
When you say Dolan is "bringing back values to the country' what you mean is 'needlessly prolonging the misery and inequality of our gay friends and neighbors' because you personally don't like them, that is all.
AngelPrecious | Sep 22, 2011, 02:48 PM EDT
Many practicing Catholics do NOT support gay marriage, Mayoman, sheesh!
AngelPrecious | Sep 22, 2011, 02:43 PM EDT
Nicomax, what a ridiculous statement! Yes, we had a FEW pedophilles terribly abuse their calling but the percentage of priests that are holy and speak the truth FAR outnumber the few sick priests that committed this disgusting crime! If you want to look at the percentages, priests that committed this horrendous act were far less than the general population!
snakehips | Sep 22, 2011, 02:36 PM EDT
Another "bloated" self centered cleric who lives in and rules over one of the largest gay cultures on earth,i.e., "The American Roman Catholic Priesthood" and whose motivation is to curry favor with "The Pedophile Protector" Pope Benedict,and the conservative elements in their religion, has some nerve attacking the anti -discrimination actions that have been taken to eliminate the violent and,may I say, anti-Christian laws and rules that have put homosexuals down forever. Your excellency,give us your take on what damage has been done to families whose children were molested by the priests that you all moved around from parish to parish and diocese to diocese? I would take a wholesome gay parent family over you animals any day!
AngelPrecious | Sep 22, 2011, 02:36 PM EDT
Hmmm, Cahir, maybe you need to wake up! AB Dolan DOES have a voice in NY politics and people are starting to listen. In the special election for Weiner's old seat in Congress, a DEMOCRATIC stronghold, a Republican candidate won for the first time since the 1920's. I am sure its because many people are getting sick and tired of the agenda of the Democrats including gay marriage. We may not be as outspoken as the left but the quiet conservatives will use their votes to bring back values to this country!
EphraimKibbey | Sep 22, 2011, 01:29 PM EDT
@jamieLM - Thanks, nor would the God/Jesus I believe in. Have these "cristians" not read the New Testament? The name implys that you believe in and follow His teachings. They seem to be preoccupied with the literal understanding of the Old Testament which He came to help us correct. They would do well to read/reread Matthew chapter 7 and see if their "houses" are built on rock or sand. These "haters" misrepresent Christ's followers to the whole world.
eileend | Sep 22, 2011, 01:27 PM EDT
Maybe the 'gay issue' is being forced right now. But is it any different than when the 'women's issue' or the 'civil rights issue' or the 'slave issue'? No great change has ever happened without a push of some kind that somebody protested against. And until the change happened, those who fought it felt completely justified to do so. Am I in favor of the laws changing? Absolutely. We heterosexuals have no moral highground to take against the idea of gay marriage. We sure can't hold up our track record as a shining example. If consenting adults make a lifelong commitment out of love, who am I to condemn them? Yes, the Archbishop has a responsibility to speak for the Church politics. The fact that the Church's behavior has completely undermined its own moral authority simply saps his words of validity. He still has the right to say them. He does not, though, have the right under the constitution, to threaten the government with actual recrimination. In that case, he and every churchman who demands certain votes and organizes political rallies should be looked at twice by the IRS.
hollabackgurl | Sep 22, 2011, 01:26 PM EDT
Seriously Joan1954, when was the last time the gays invaded your home and shoved something down your throat? You're doing what Dolan is doing - you're overstating the actual threat because there isn't one - Canada proved that.
Nicomax | Sep 22, 2011, 01:25 PM EDT
For an organization with so many major strategic issues to address within their own failing structure, you would think they would hunker down to that task, and let outside issues go their way. But as we know, people divert from what is essential, but very difficult to resolve, to discussing fringe issues where they can make noise, but solve little.
joan1954 | Sep 22, 2011, 01:03 PM EDT
I am not a bigot but the issue goes both ways. I do not like the gay issue rammed down my throat which is what the activists are doing. What a person does behind closed doors is their business not mine. As in every community, whether gay or straight, there are monogamous relationships that should be nurtured so problems don't occur.
janiebeth | Sep 22, 2011, 12:56 PM EDT
Just a few days ago (Sept. 19), Archbishop Dolan wrote to all the US bishops urging them to advocate for the poor and jobless: http://www.usccb.org/news/2011/11-176.cfm. The trope that the Church is a single-issue institution is inaccurate, petty, and hardly an answer to the serious concerns the Archbishop raises in his letter about marriage. Regarding his concerns, it's far too early to opine that redefining marriage will have no effect on society. But for now, we can look at Massachusetts (same-sex "marriage" legal since 2003) where homosexual activity is being championed in schools, in the public square, etc. (http://www.massresistance.org/docs/marriage/effects_of_ssm.html) Or we could look to England (legal same-sex "unions") where top officials are urging the PM to ban all church weddings unless they will perform same-gender ceremonies (http://www.catholicherald.co.uk/news/2011/09/08/tory-mp-urges-cameron-to-crack-down-on-churches-that-refuse-to-hold-same-sex-ceremonies/)
Irishphotograph | Sep 22, 2011, 12:26 PM EDT
"The erosion of traditional marriage, the marginalization of religion and the complete breakdown of the family, still so fretted over by some conservatives, hasn't happened. At all. Nor will it"" What Planet are you living on???
oldboreen | Sep 22, 2011, 12:11 PM EDT
Mayoman- "many Catholics support gay mariage". Really? I'm Irish, practising Catholic and gay, and I've never met any. Unless you mean 'Civil Partnership' which is not 'marrriage'.
jamieLM | Sep 22, 2011, 12:05 PM EDT
My focus is on my own straight marriage. Its success is not based upon other people's marriages, gay or straight. This is America and people should have the right to love and/or marry another legal-aged adult, gay or straight in the pursuit of happiness. The God/Jesus I believe in wouldn't be on the side of bigotry and prejudice, and I try not to be either.
mayoman | Sep 22, 2011, 11:05 AM EDT
The Cardinal speaks for himself, and I say that because I know that most Catholics are not bigots. Indeed many Catholics support gay marriage, and wish it were the law of the land right now.
jhmdeuce | Sep 22, 2011, 11:05 AM EDT
You are correct. The United States is supposed to be governed by the Constitution. However, the constitionality of any law is decided by the courts, not the Department of Justice.("The Justice Departments decision to no longer defend DOMA the Defense of Marriage act, claiming that it's unconstitutional."). The Obama administration is acting against the constitution by not enforcing this law. Archbishop Dolan is guarenteed free speech under that very same Constitution. He is free to say or write anything he feels apporpriate, as we are free to listen and act, or not listen, to him. Mind your own house, Irish.
hollabackgurl | Sep 22, 2011, 10:46 AM EDT
Canada does seem to be doing fine. In fact, in many ways, it's a much more evolved society than our own. Every time a bigot talks about 'erosion' tell them that.
rainbowbrew | Sep 22, 2011, 10:45 AM EDT
Let's see here they don't like gays but will coverup and hide pediophiles. The catholic church needs to clean house to be a viable trusted and credible institution. Catholics are also in favor of the death penalty. Go figure they seem so convuluted lately it is hard to figure out what their moral compass is.
momof7kdz | Sep 22, 2011, 10:29 AM EDT
Since Archbishop is an American Bishop, you would do well to know that he is immensely supported by a multitude of Catholic Americans (of Irish heritage or not). Why is that never reported on? He as well as other courageous Bishops here in America are being applauded loudly - especially by the young! Amazing how things are turning . . . . .
tomdoyal | Sep 22, 2011, 10:24 AM EDT
The Vatican and its shameless voices, like Dolan, continue their bigotry toward gay people. Can they find any word of support for their position in the recorded words of Jesus? No.
PhlutiePhan | Sep 22, 2011, 10:21 AM EDT
When you say that "AB Dolan needs to get out more", there is a hidden meaning! Also when you state that his voice is no more valid than any other, you voice a parallel to the guillotine. You question just "who voted for him". Marriage is a divine institution and if you "play with his law of life", then there are problems down the road. You can take the "road less travelled" with the understanding that civil unions are acceptable. However, you are literally "playing with fire".
rugbyplayer | Sep 22, 2011, 09:59 AM EDT
I have said it before: Dolan is a chubby, cigar smorking sycophant bent on being a cardinal (stooge) for the Vatican. He should be run out of New York, cigars, whisky and all.