Who were the 'Black Irish'?

Seriously wondering, do you all live in the past?

Er, wasn't the cartoonist F.Opper American???? Don't believe me? Look it up!

You say "The Celts arrived in Ireland about the year 500 B.C." Your information is out-dated. The Celts were not a race, but a culture. The inhabitants of Ireland, including my ancestors who have lived in Northwest Ireland since about 7,000 B.C. embraced that culture, which came from Anatolia and Central Europe. There was no invasion or mass migration by an alien race called the Celts. My ancestors, Ireland's original post-Ice Age inhabitants, were dark-haired and dark-eyed, like their close relatives the Basques.

White people can have red, brown, black or blonde hair. we can have blue, brown, grey, green, hazel eyes and we can be pale or sallow. No one combination of these makes anyone 'more irish' than another but if youre not from ireland, then youre not irish.

Well, as the son of a "Black" irish Woman, I am well aware of its 'origin.' These folks come from the original settlers of Spain & Portugal. Well before the Armanda event. Afterall, as we should all know - Hibernia and Iberia come form the same root word of those early ancestors who continued the travel Up north to the Island back before the folks were seriously writing history. And yes, we do have A- blood! My mom, grandmother, and sister all share that link. Brother and other sister are closer to my father's Irish folks (looks and blood).

Hermittalker , you say that the cartoon is "hateful British Propaganda" yet the cartoonist is American and has no link to the British. Why did you say this ?

Seanmor. Ireland may not have been invaded by black Africans, but whether through war and capture, trade or adventure, Africans most assuredly traveled with Viking raiders in 795 and beyond. There were blacks in and ruling the Roman Empire around 190AD. African Moors were in Southwest Europe during the middle Ages. It is profoundly unfortunate that the true and accurate history of Africans and African-Americans has not been told. Louis Latimer (light bulb), Garret Morgan (3-way traffic signal), Matthew Alexander Henson (Arctic Explorer), Patricia Bath, MD (apparatus for cataract lenses), Ruane Jeter (digital toaster). The greater tragedy is that many African-Americans don’t know their history. This is as much the result of oppression and persecution as was the British treatment of the Irish along with a reductionist and distorted version of Irish history. Read, my friend. Read.

The Celts (Gauls) were noted by Julius caesar as universally blue eyes. The Norse culture were overwhelmingly blue eyed. The Normans were Vikings with (perhaps a bit of mixing). This article says nothing intelligent on the topic. You might note that the word "dubh" is not simply a color. "Dubh" can mean "dark" in having a quality of ill will.

Forget the whole Spanish Armada myth (that only accounts for a smattering of cross-bred dark folk in Ireland); forget what we think we know about the Celts, because truthfully, we don't know much about them and that migration is currently under study. For those of us dark Irish with A- blood and other distinctive bone structures, here's the real possibility: Basque migration. And a correction: the surname Fitzpatrick is not of Norman origin. It is the only "Fitz" surname that is of actual Irish origin.

Many of you forget that your child can be as light as their lightest ancestor or as dark as your darkest. For example, a couple having a red-headed, green-eyed child when neither parent can remember anyone in their family with that coloring, but a grandmother remembers one of her grandparents with red hair. We always joked that my dad was "Black Irish" because he was from Galway, had black hair, green eyes & was pale-skinned until he was out in the sun where he would tan very darkly.

My father and five of his 11 siblings inherited their "Black Irishness" from their mother. However, while they had jet black hair, they were fair-skinned. That was my understanding of what "Black Irish" meant, sans the dark or sallow complexion. I thank the writer for avoiding the myth that the "Black Irish" are the descendants of survivors of the Spanish Armana, most of whom were slain by the Irish when they made it ashore. If the Spanish influence did occur, it was more likely that because of the great trade between Spain and Galway, there was some intermarriage - but certainly not enough to create the "Black Irish." Actually, the Normans were descendants of Vikings who had invaded and settled in France. The people of France are presently a mixture of Celts (the primary people of France when the Romans invaded Gaul), the Vikings who became Normans and Germanic tribes who also invaded France. So, the French are our cousins! Paris is named after the Parisi Celtic tribe. Of course, the people of Brittany are almost 100% Celtic. The above is really common knowledge that I have gleamed by reading about Celts - not because I am a historian, which I am not.

The cartoon here showed British hateful propaganda, the Missing link of Darwin's theory about human evolution was that was the ape-like (simian) features of the Irish, who is still strangely the same caricature shown on the Notre Dame Fighting Irish mascot. Never knew why thet did not realise that. DOYLE is the black equivalent of McGinley DUBH GALL black foreigner. Donegal has a dominantly B blood type and black hair and short height is dominant there, I plan to pursue that with the DNA project but they were probably Phoenician/ Mediterranean, Semitic. DONEGAL is of course the DUN NA N'GALL, fortress of the foreigner. I heard once of an island people (Tory perhaps) off Donegal who spoke Irish but were from the Mediterranean area and quite suspicious of mainlanders. There was definitely trade and travel with Egypt, which is of course Africa during early Christian days due to persecution in the Eastern Empire; also trade with Celtic areas, including Galicia in Spain, see the Gall root- Paul's letter to the Galatians was to Celts, again the root word, in Asia Minor, today's Turkey.

The Black Irish were the coal miners at Balingarry.

There are many theories about the origin of the "black Irish". My early years were in Donegal & the "black Irish" were the heavy drinkers who were given to easy anger, or they could be those subject to black moods. The author does not seem to have done his research very thoroughly in terms of Vikings. The Norse & the Danish, who made up most of the Vikings were the dark & light foreigners. I have relatives named McGinley, which in Irish is Mag Fhionnghaile, a name associated with the Vikings. All are light haired. Another family name is O'Gallchobhair (Gallagher), associated with "foreign warriors" which is descriptive with no specific point of origin. Although "Donegal" itself is associated with the clan Gallagher well before the O'Donnell clan came to power. According to Patrick Woulfe, the historian of Irish names, the Gallaghers are descended from the 7th century Maolchobha, King of Ireland. Another assertion I would question is the statement that Celts came to Ireland in the 5th century BC. Stephen Oppenheimer's book dealing with genetic history believes the Celts came in much much earlier to Ireland, closer to the date given by Lebor Gabala, the mythic history of Ireland (about 1700 BC). Archaeological discoveries & genetics are giving us a much clearer picture of the early history of Ireland.

I agree with Searlit as it has long been acknowledged that the Celts were a loose confederation of tribes spread across most of Europe from Russia to Ireland. Celtic red headed mummies have even been found inside the bounderies of China. They were known for their tremendous height still found among many Irish and their descendents worldwide. The Romans are said to have been terrified by their size in Helveti, ancient Switzerland. We have local Irish who are six foot eleven inches, and my wife has red headed Irish relative with women six foot three and men six foot seven. On the History Channel recently they had a derogatory program about huge red headed skeletans found in the Western USA, whose heads were kept hidden in a museum. Why is that I wonder? The Basques are another puzzle as their language is not connected to any other known language. Were they native Americans? Incidentally about 56% of the English have Basque genes and the A-S's invasion is a myth. If you remember your history you will recall that the natives in Central America thought the "white" men were returning "Gods" who had been there long before and told them they would return. They welcomed them unfortunately. This is all a big puzzle but DNA will solve it. My wife's family has a great many tall redheads and her family was predominately fair haired, blue eyed people.