155 Comments

• dorculla | Oct 10, 2012, 03:48 PM EDT

  Exiled Child of Ireland and the closest relative you have is a great grandparent? This is exactly why we're so bemused by Irish Americans.

• irishpaddy | Mar 06, 2012, 02:25 PM EST

  I myself have been to Ireland 3 times and plan on going back. Me I blame the English. All my great Grandparents came to the US in the late 1800. I was proud of heritage and studied it. On my 1st visit to Dublin was not to visit the Temple Bar District. It was to Glasnevin Cemetery to visit the grave of all the loyal Irish who died for Irish freedom. I have 2 children with College educations and they asked me WHY they never heard or read any thing in World History about Ireland. I had to explain there was no Ireland util recently. I tracked my family history to Clifden County Galway and I have also practiced trying to learn Gaelic..(That isn't an easy thing to do) I consider myself an Exiled Child of Ireland..I didn't ask to be born in the US. But there is a great say 'Born in the US, Irish by the Grace of God!

• ruairí | Mar 04, 2012, 06:52 AM EST

  i think after reading BOTH articles its fair to say that bloated stereotypes exist in both countries.............RONPAUL2012

• Madeliene | Feb 28, 2012, 03:57 PM EST

  gobdawpaddy- the Ameiricans are not too dam& smart either They ected OBama

• jamieLM | Feb 21, 2012, 11:04 AM EST

  There are many regional differences in the U.S. NYC and Boston do NOT represent how all Americans live and how they think when it comes to political and social issues. Tourists who limit their visits to the NYC and Boston areas get a very narrow view of the U.S. and Americans. It's like saying that if you've been to Dublin, you know everything about the Irish and Ireland.

• joycean | Feb 21, 2012, 10:22 AM EST

  faberm1, Your post is right on target. Most Irish have never seen much of the United States. Problem is that it is really too big for anyone to. Also,outside of places like Boston and NYC, you are right: our country is much more conservative than Irish can grasp. Many Americans do not share their worldview.

• joycean | Feb 21, 2012, 08:42 AM EST

  gobdawpaddy, I think QE1&2 have gobbled up quite a bit of debt by buying back short term bonds. Inflation is nothing like the 1970s when it reached the teens, and briefly up to 21% under Carter, when my husband and I went into business and bought our first home. This slow period has allowed people to refinance mortgages and other debt at much lower rates and shorter terms. Many people have paid off debt and are stashing money in savings, which currently pays very little in interest. So a little increase in interest would be welcome, but isn't projected for another year or so. People on set incomes like retirees have just gotten the first COLA raise in 3 years, again, very welcome. In other wors, many Americans are actually more financially stable than they were before. Banks aren't lending, but that is partly because no one wants to borrow.

• sirpeter | Feb 20, 2012, 10:35 PM EST

  Well I ain't going to argue about something I'm not all that well up on.The last 5 years have been an economic nightmare.The way Europe is and it still is a nightmare.All I can say is 5 years ago I was a signature away from losing a figure with 6 zeros after it.But I took a safer option.It still gives me night sweats.The moral of the story is when you are smart enough to make a couple of million in a way you know how and it's sitting in the bank and you are wondering what to do with it next.When your bank manager rings you every other week with some great investment ideas for MY money.It's best to tell him fu*k off.Yes!!That four letter word applies here.Take the high risk he said.Everything is booming.Lucky I'm not easily swayed.But I have a surprise for him when my money comes back.He'll need something stronger than a bottle of Dom Perignon when he is trying to explain to his regional manager how he let that kind of money walk out the door.

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 20, 2012, 09:12 PM EST

  Peter in your recent post you display a fairly decent understanding of the US debt situation. The only area that I would disagree with you on is the USD. The USD has been relatively robust for quite some time. It fell to just short of 1.51 versus the EUR in October of 2009 and has since traded as strong as 1.19. IT is currently trading around 1.32. Its status as the principal reserve currency has been underscored in recent times during the european crisis and the conflict in Libya in particular. Every time uncertainty arises and there is an aversion to risk, global markets still seek the security of the USD and US treasuries. I didn't check today but reckon 10 year yields are probably around 1.95%. Gold's upside is running out of steam, in my opinion. The increase in the trade deficit is not necessarily a bad short term development as my interpretation of it displays a growing confidence in the US recovery by americans. Oil imports are falling as the domestic supply improves, although globally we don't know what will happen with Iran. It will be interesting to see the US jobs reports a week from friday to see if recent reductions in unemployment and increases in NFP will be sustained. Personally would be happy to see an unchanged unemployment level of 8.3%, indicating that the recovery is holding its own. Of course a reading of 8% and I will be breaking out the Dom Perignon.

• RockNReel | Feb 20, 2012, 08:45 PM EST

  Shows how little some people know about Irish Politics. Cowan was NOT elected by the people of Ireland. Instead he was nominated by Dail Eireann to replace Bertie Ahearn who was forced to step down and Cowan was elected by the the president later the same day !! He brought Irish politics to an all time low with scandal after scandal and he arrived at live chat programmes half twisted-if you know what I mean ?

• sirpeter | Feb 20, 2012, 06:35 PM EST

  Gobshite I am a bond holder.5 year English bonds.But they a secure bonds.Maturing this year.Ulster Bank.Well the feds keep printing and the Chinese keep buying.As of January 2011, foreigners owned $4.45 trillion of U.S. debt, or approximately 47% of the debt held by the public of $9.49 trillion and 32% of the total debt of $14.1 trillion.A high debt level may affect inflation, interest rates, and economic growth. A variety of factors are placing increasing pressure on the value of the U.S. dollar, increasing the risk of devaluation or inflation and encouraging challenges to dollar's role as the world's reserve currency.The debt ceiling keeps rising.The debt ceiling was raised once more on January 30, 2012,to a new high of $16.394 trillion.The fact is imports exceed exports in the US.That will at some stage lead to big trouble.Playing with paper is not the way forward.Manufacturing is.

• seanomelb | Feb 20, 2012, 05:42 PM EST

  taid Seoirse cheann bioran.

• kinvara7 | Feb 20, 2012, 03:28 PM EST

  So, to sum up: (1) You’ve said that I hate the Irish language even though you have seen my Irish messages before. That makes you a liar. (2) You call others liars when you get upset and you state that you hate liars. That makes you a hypocrite. (3) You said there was no offensive language in Joyce’s work, when clearly there is. That makes you look like a fool. The really funny thing is this list could go on and on! Don’t get me wrong, George, IC wouldn’t be the same without you. Sure every village must have someone like you! Oíche mhaith agus codladh sámh.

• kinvara7 | Feb 20, 2012, 03:15 PM EST

  @George: You’re a character there is no doubt about it! Thank you for all those lovely messages in English. Once again you are showing your ignorance for spoken Irish and Irish idioms (I want to test your knowledge by using such phrases; it also confuses google translator). Clearly you have a great deal to learn about the treasures of Irish, in the meantime you shouldn’t insult it. If you insult the parts you don’t know then what does that say about your claim to love Irish? Perhaps you just say that because it makes you feel more Irish, but in truth your ear does not love the language. I hope that is not the case. You are certainly no expert –you didn’t even know the word calbh! Never mind your other mistakes. I think this is the fourth time that I tried to speak Irish with you, but to no avail. Oh and could you tell us when Brian Cowen was elected Taoiseach by the Irish people? Cad é mar a rinné tú sin amach? Ní dhlífinn a mhalairt díot. Is bréagach thú agus tá tú ag cur dallach dubh ort féin. Chuir mé ceist ort faoi na leabhair atá á léamh agat. An bhfuil tú ag léamh aon litríocht na Gaeilge? (Is fada mé á rá sin leat). Cén freagra atá air sin agat? Cuir scéala chugainn le do thoil. Oh, agus abair as Gaeilge é…

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 20, 2012, 12:25 PM EST

  Gobdaw: Ignore kinvara's inanity about Cowen not being elected by the people. Of course he was. Just like the British Prime Minister is elected by the people, even tho the Queen of England actually appoints him/her. This kind of Irish nitwit tries to seem smart by being picky on points that are of no consequence. But kinvara sure ain't no Einstein! You might say he's a few million atoms short of a molecule!

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 20, 2012, 12:21 PM EST

  kinvara: "Measaim gur ceart é a iarraidh ar." Is this Klingon? It sure ain't Irish!

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 20, 2012, 12:20 PM EST

  kinvara: " Níl tú ina údar ar an ábhar". PLEASE STOP TORTURING THE IRISH LANGUAGE! What did Irish ever do to you? Why are you mangling it every day on this site? That sentence is garbage. It is utterly meaningless, because it mixes up second person ( tú ) and third person (ina). If you show some humility I'm willing to correct that sentence for you. But only if you ask courteously, not with the foul rudeness you have shown hitherto.

• kinvara7 | Feb 20, 2012, 11:37 AM EST

  @George: For a person who talks so much about the Irish language, it is striking how little you use it. I have attempted to speak to you in Irish previously (as have others) but you either disappear or you continue to use English, albeit cutting and pasting from the other person’s Irish message and making asinine comments. You are in no position to be talking about mistakes given you‘ve made plenty in the few messages you have written in Irish. I have a genuine love for Irish, and want to encourage others to speak it and use it. I think it is hilarious when you say: “I wouldn't correct anyone else on fairly small points like this” . On the rare occasions when you have used the language, it is in a condescending and insulting way to other posters, how does that help the language? I have pointed that out to you before, hence why you accuse me of the same (imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!) You are a character, and no doubt the people who know you consider you a character too!

• kinvara7 | Feb 20, 2012, 11:09 AM EST

  Gabh mo leithscéal, cén fáth a bhfuil tú ag labhairt Béarla? Mar a cheile agamsa é. Níl tú ina údar ar an ábhar. Más buam mo chuimhne dúirt tú go raibh Gaeilge agat, ach ca bhfuil sé? Duirt mise san sliocht seo: ‘Tá mé ag léamh an t-úrscéal staire 'Fontenoy' le an t-údar Liam Mac Cóil‘ (by the author). Má bhíonn tú I bhfad eile ar an imeacht sin, ní bheidh aon duine ag labhairt leat. Tar sa cheann seo de: chuir mé ceist ort faoi na leabhair atá á léamh agat (duirt mé go raibh spéis faoi leith agam i Nua-phrós na Gaeilge) ach ní raibh aon fhreagra. Cén fath? Measaim gur ceart é a iarraidh ar. An bhfuil tú ag léamh aon litríocht na Gaeilge? No aon chineál leabhair! Maidir le Joyce: tá tú aineolach ar an fear agus Ulysess. Ní hé gur miste liom.

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 20, 2012, 09:57 AM EST

  Ah Peter, I didnt realize you were a bond trader, Anglo perhaps. How do you think the US facilitates funding for its debt? What is your understanding of how the US borrows all these funds from China. Obama flies to Bejing and returns stateside with a 747 full of cash? The Chinese and many other Asian central banks view the United States as the safest place for its excess funds and in the market purchase US treasuries, safe in the knowledge that a US default is highly unlikely. These central banks also place funds with certain US banks, often at below market bids, secure in their safety.

• kinvara7 | Feb 20, 2012, 08:03 AM EST

  Returning to the main argument about offensive language: do you not see the hypocrisy in your comments? It is clear that you want to offend; even your username is intended to offend. So explain how you think that you have better manners than the Irish people you denigrate? Don’t mind all this about ‘thin skin’, we Irish enjoy a lively conversation.

• kinvara7 | Feb 20, 2012, 07:51 AM EST

  @Gobdaw: If you want to stand by your comments, well that’s a matter for yourself, but you are embarking on a trip into bigotry. I think you should focus on the main argument rather than going off on tangents; if the evidence backing up your comments relates to certain Irish politicians, may I point out to you, that you are building your castle on sand –so to speak. I am more than happy to talk about some American politicians if you wish “The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur”, "But obviously, we've got to stand with our North Korean allies." Do any of these quotes ring a bell? There are already some good ones from the current campaign. So your observations are very blinkered. If you point a finger –there are four pointing back at you. (By the way, you don’t seem to be too familiar with our political structures –it is called the Dáil not Congress and the Taoiseach is appointed by the President upon the nomination of Dáil Éireann; so Brian Cowen was not elected by the people as you state). Perhaps your observational skills are not as good as you think?

• sirpeter | Feb 19, 2012, 09:46 PM EST

  Gobshite The Chinese didn't invest you thick sh*t.It's borrowed money.China has financed much of their nation’s public and private debt. During the presidential campaign, Barack Obama and John McCain generally agreed on the peril of BORROWING so heavily from this one foreign source. For instance, in their final debate, McCain warned about the “$10 trillion debt we’re giving to our kids.It's now $15 trillion and $2 trillion of that is American debt.You really are a clown.

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 19, 2012, 08:53 PM EST

  kinvara, I have indeed made observations that "70% of Irish people are a bit on the shhhlow side. These 70% are bereft of intelligence, manners, social skills, common sense", I have referred to the Irish as "a backward race". These assessments were not made overnight and the 70% figure was given some thought. I deal with Irish people, in Ireland, on a daily basis and I do find them a little 'lacking'. I love the place for vacation but find it difficult to deal with its people on a serious basis. Irish people elect clowns such as 'the drunken moron' to be Taoiseach, they vote for people such as Mick Wallace, Ming, Conor Lenihan, his aunt Mary, Martin Cullen, Michael Martin etc. etc. to represent them. In any other jurisdiction in the world the Healy-Rae's would be in the circus, but the people of South Kerry vote them into congress. I realize that it is often hard to handle the truth, but my observations were garnered over considerable time, during dozens of visits. If Irish posters here are so thin skinned they should stick to the Beano website.

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 19, 2012, 08:14 PM EST

  But shur Peter, Paddy is like a whore, they will do business with anybody with cash. As regards the Chinese owning the US, this is yet another example of an SFB mucksavage making a silly statement. The Chinese have invested heavily in the United States because they believe it a safe place to place their funds. This is why yields on 10 year treasuries are running below 2% and Ireland would have to pay 7% if it went to the market. Central banks worldwide are placing excess funds with the major US banks at below market bids because they have confidence in the US. Don't make silly statements without the facts as it just re-enforces your image here as a backward gobshite.

• NiGhabhainn | Feb 19, 2012, 06:12 PM EST

  I met a young American girl the other day in a store in Cork City. When I asked her where she was from after sharing a laugh, she replied "America,but I dont know if thats ok or not". I thought how awful! Why does she feel this way? Such a nice person visiting her ancestral roots. What has been said to make her feel this way? If a poll was carried out here in Ireland outside of this article, you would find that Irish people have high regard for Americans. We need to remember our government are no different to the US government...Our land is being sold off by our own people to foreign investors, our crops are being genetically modified, our people are feeding their young on fast food and being told by magazines, tv, etc that its healthier than fruit, our children are being forced one education and religion due to society fearing change..Our land is now being sold for "Fracking" which we were warned against by Americans...Some of us listened but our government has ignored our plea... Talking nonsense about one group of people disliking another when they are both the same. Im 100% irish with American family and love them as much as my Irish family here. I lived in America and experienced many states from East to West, North and South and I love the country. I would also like to apologise for any mispelling, Enlgish is not my original language!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• sirpeter | Feb 19, 2012, 01:49 PM EST

  Georgie Boy.You have mistakes too.But I'm not going to give you anytime on educating you on the Irish language.Not until you seek therapy and you are able to except your stupidity.

• Springfield9 | Feb 19, 2012, 01:35 PM EST

  This entire exchange is silly. There are Americans who have never left their state and there are Irish who have never left their county. THe Irish are a wonderful people if you let them be Irish. Don't arrive with expectations of a peat fire and a white watshed, Thatched cottage. IN general I finf Dublin and Belfast least appealing. It's only an opinion. BTW someone mentioned Germany invading Irealnd. They gave it some thought. Finally, they concluded the IRA couldn't manage a train wreck and gave up on it.

• kinvara7 | Feb 19, 2012, 01:06 PM EST

  @Gobdaw: If you think that a comment like: "70% of Irish people are a bit on the shhhlow side. These 70% are bereft of intelligence, manners, social skills, common sense", is not offensive then you are not being honest as regards this discussion. You have called the Irish "a backward race". However, you will say that this is not meant to offend but to inform, and again you are not being honest. Is calling Ireland "Paddyland" an example of your good manners? Indeed do the above comments display common sense? Is your failure to notice that they are offensive, evidence of your level of intelligence? Considering your failure to notice all this, I think you should go and look in the mirror -there's a good chance that some Thanksgiving turkey is still stuck in your teeth!

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 19, 2012, 12:58 PM EST

  Addendum: kinvara's "faoi Máirtín Ó Cadhain" is also wrong, should be "faoi Mháirtín Ó Cadhain". I wouldn't correct anyone else on fairly small points like this, but kinvara is a fascist, he uses the Irish language as a weapon to attack others. So he'd better get it right (so far he hasn't!).

• Springfield9 | Feb 19, 2012, 12:56 PM EST

  This is amusingly silly.If you are an American and you want to strat learning bout Ireland. Look for a field with sheep in it - and a collie. Step through the gate. Welcome to Ireland, it will take 2 hours to get the dog off dog you.

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 19, 2012, 12:56 PM EST

  Joyce does NOT issue the strings of crudities that kinvara thinks he uses. But kinvara also claims to know Irish. Before I rate his Irish I’d need to know if he is American or Irish. If he’s an American who has struggled to learn the language, his effort is pretty good. Lean ar aghaidh leis an dea-obair. If he’s Irish, and the effort he shows us is product of a dozen years exposure to the language, he’s pretty bad. For example, he is prone to Anglicisms in syntax such as “Cad a cheapann tú faoi Máirtín Ó Cadhain?” (should be—Cad é do mheas/bharúil…) or “Cád atá tú ag leabh?” (ignoring the silly misspelling, should be Cad tá á léamh agat?). Use of prepositions is a tricky topic in most languages, and kinvara sure hasn’t mastered it for Irish—“ Tá suim agus eolas agam ar ghnéithe…” (preposition should be faoi). A specific problem for learners of Irish is the copula, and again kinvara shows he hasn’t mastered it ---“ is é litríocht na Gaeilge ar ceann…”. There is no “ar” in that construction. (I think he stupidly “corrected” me on that a while ago—he doesn’t understand the damn rule!) Also, “ceann de na traidisiúin” is wrong, should be ceann des… Similarly “le an t-údar” is wrong, should be “leis an t-údar” or maybe even “leis an údar” since it’s dative case, but perhaps that’s being picky. Might also be picky to reject his “ag léamh an t-úrscéal staire”, since it could be argued that “úrscéal staire” already contains a genitive, hence doesn’t need a double genitive (ag léamh an úrscéil). I would defer to Irish language experts (and that doesn’t include kinvara) on that one. Anyway, kinvara, this is the last time I’m going to spend 15 minutes analyzing your mistakes in Irish.

• sirpeter | Feb 19, 2012, 10:08 AM EST

  Gobshite.I see you hate the Germans and the French too.I guess it's anyone who stands up to the American fat ass.Actually the next Chinese President of China Xi Jinping is in Ireland this weekend.Don't they now own your country ~The Useless Snakes.Great bunch of lads the Chinese.We can do business with them.

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 19, 2012, 09:10 AM EST

  Paddy displays no gratitude, just like the French. The United States saved europe from Adolf. For decades, its own people/government unable to support them, Ireland has exported its problems to the US, the UK, Australia etc. When Patrick makes a mess of things due to incompetence they put out the damp, wool cap for a few USD or CAD or GBP, ECU or EURO. This weekend they are seeking a few remimbi. Patrick doesn't care so long as somebody is throwing a few bob into that begging bowl. Indeed Patrick might now be better off had Adolf set his sights westward. He may have culled some of the backward stupidity/gombeenism, 'Goerhing, fire up ze ovens, zeez pepil are too stupid to be part of ze master race'. Germany today is a vibrant, wealthy economy. Patrick might be living in a very different enviornment than its present predicament. I wonder would Ciara and Peter have made the cut with Adolf.

• ciaradexy | Feb 19, 2012, 08:39 AM EST

  Gobdaw, you cant even bring an apple into the US! Plus you can send vaccuum packed meats to the US from Ireland so your 'point' is pointless.

• ciaradexy | Feb 19, 2012, 08:37 AM EST

  Well look ye here! Im just back from a surf trip to co.Clare. The number of obnoxious Americans there at this time of year was unreal! Loud, false and insincere! Most even chatted during a mans speech in regards to the famine! How disrespectful was that! The swearing was pretty bad too. I didnt mind the swearing but it was the loud conversations and lack of respect to the natives that I found irritating. Oh and the groups of them taking up entire paths AND roads so drivers and ourselves couldnt get passed was pretty irritating too! So annoying and self absorbed!

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 19, 2012, 08:19 AM EST

  kinvara 11.11 EST, what might be offensive in my contribution? I made a very serious observation about hygiene issues and lack of social skills in relation to Irish natives. The USDA refuses to allow passengers on flights from paddyland to bring Irish sausages, bacon etc. because of poor standards in your slaughter houses. I have witnessed first hand the toilet humor that the natives in Ireland find hilarious. My reference to the odors that were exposed in you bars after the smoking ban was introduced was garnered from your own media reports. It would appear that Patrick can't handle the truth about his uncouth behavior/lifestyle.

• sirpeter | Feb 19, 2012, 07:27 AM EST

  I could think of worse things than speaking the German language.We could be speaking the American language.Oh!Hang on.You don't have a language of your own either.No culture,no language.The only culture ye have is on your ass.German hamburger and french fries!!And the American contribution"SUPERSIZE ME".The truth hurts as you say Gobshite.LOL

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 19, 2012, 03:03 AM EST

  'Without Ireland and it's culture ye lot would be nothing' Without us. 'ye lot' would be speaking german and wiping your ass with grass.

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 19, 2012, 02:54 AM EST

  I guess the truth hurts Sirp. Now go back to your room and enjoy annudder slab or 2 of bulmers.

• faberm1 | Feb 18, 2012, 10:15 PM EST

  I think that the main reason that many Irish are ignorant of America is that they have never travelled in and through it. In ALL of my 56 years, I have never met a single Irish tourist coming through Central Texas. They seem to only visit NYC, Boston, Chicago, San Francisco, and Disney World. That would be like going to Dublin and saying you understand Ireland. Another reason for the ignorance of America is that they generally do not have any political understanding of 1/2 of the body politic of America: Republican/Conservative or Libertarian . When I was in Ireland last summer people raved on and on about how much they loved President Obama, and when I pressed them to tell me why, they couldn't tell me one thing he had done that they liked or approved of. Several people actually told me that they understood that our "poor" were dying in the streets of untreated medical conditions and hunger. They did not know that ANYONE who goes to a hospital in the USA must be admitted and treated regardless of financial resources, and that over 51% of all Americans get money each month from the government in some form (some of it earned and deserved like our Social Security). Lastly, concerning Irish-Americans, many Irish do not understand our feeling that Irish culture is in part our own. They forget that our ancestors lived in Ireland for thousands of years, and we have spent only a couple of hundred years here at most. Many here have an antiquated view of Ireland because that is what Hollywood has sold us, and I might add that Hollywood has sold the Irish a weird distorted view of America. When I was at language school in Donegal last year, dozens of people seemed stunned and puzzled that I had an interest in learning to speak the Irish language. They couldn't understand how I consider much of it my own culture. I found that strange.

• kinvara7 | Feb 18, 2012, 08:09 PM EST

  @Joycean: The fact remains that for a time the book was banned in the US on obscenity grounds, presumably you would have opposed that because of your username? It sounds as if you wouldn't. Could you explain the difference (in the context of literature) between 'content' and 'words/ language'? What is the diference between saying a short four letter word and writing an entire paragraph using 'proper' language to say something offensive or obscene? What are we 'protected' from? Words or meanings? As I have explained, Irishmen can use four letter words to convey humour and comradery; we are not afraid of words. You say only the most vulgar people use 'it' in conversation, and I have to disagree. You should be careful about judging Irish people based on what you deem appropriate language. Finally, Fairytale of New York, is one of the most beautiful Christmas songs ever written, yet look at the lyrics. The song has a bitter, artistic honesty; it has an emotion which makes it more meaningful. Would it be the same without the 'bad' words?

• kinvara7 | Feb 18, 2012, 06:57 PM EST

  Tá mé ag cur mo anama amach ag gáire! So, George you said a person could 'scour' the works of Joyce and not come across any offensive language. As I have read Ulysess, I had to laugh at your silly claim. Furthermore, Joyce contains more than just the 'standard' F word, George and if you read the book you would know that; read my previous post again. How do you respond to having your ignorance exposed yet again? You blurt out: "You know absolutely nothing about James Joyce." Really George? is that your comeback? Weak. Dúirt tú go raibh Gaeilge agat, ach ca bhfuil sé? Cad a cheapann tú faoi Máirtín Ó Cadhain? Tá mé ag léamh an t-úrscéal staire 'Fontenoy' le an t-údar Liam Mac Cóil. Tá sé níos fearr ná Peig! Tá suim agus eolas agam ar ghnéithe de litríocht na Gaeilge. Mar a dúirt mé roimhe seo, is é litríocht na Gaeilge ar ceann de na traidisiúin liteartha is sine san Eoraip. Tá litríocht na Gaeilge faoi bhláth agus tá spéis faoi leith agam i Nua-phrós na Gaeilge. Agus tú fein? Cád atá tú ag leabh?

• sirpeter | Feb 18, 2012, 06:57 PM EST

  Georgie Boy.So you are wrong again.haha."Your mind clearly has a policy akin to 'manifest destiny'"Excellent!!!.Joyce would be proud of that line.

• sirpeter | Feb 18, 2012, 06:50 PM EST

  joycean.Last time I looked Washington wasn't part of any Indian reservation.What business does American Indian artifacts have in the Smithsonian?White Americans steal them from the natives or just take them? How does it feel to know that Geronimo would love to shoot every one of ye with his gun that was stolen from him and now sits in the Smithsonian.Who hacked off his head and boiled the flesh from his skull in 1909?Who then stole his skull?Who then used the code name "Geronimo" for the raid that killed Osama bin Laden but its use upset native Americans.What people in 2003 have an unemployment rate of 69% in Montana?I guess if the Native American kids or whats left of them save up enough food stamps they might be able to trade them in for the cost of the 3000 mile journey by school bus to see their stolen artifacts.Joycean.Of course Irish women prefer shopping in America.What woman whats to see a history of violence and genocide and slavery? They wouldn't be going to see the Book of Kells now would they?Space junk and the first coke bottle doesn't hold much interest for women either.Do you want more American "culture"?

• seanomelb | Feb 18, 2012, 05:59 PM EST

  The Irish have no problems understanding Americans my worry is,if George Dillon is a typical American and if so God help the republic.

• joycean | Feb 18, 2012, 05:52 PM EST

  Obscenity is not protected speech, and is defined by prevailing norms. Obviously, the people in Virginia Beach do find profanities offensive, and only the most vulgar people use it in conversation. It does have a literal meaning. As for the Ulysses decision, it was based on content, not language.The judge found the book not sexually titulating, thus not obscene. The book isn't titilating, just gross.

• kinvara7 | Feb 18, 2012, 05:06 PM EST

  @Joycean: Does Virginia not come under the jurisdiction of the US Supreme Court? A great deal of speech that is protected by the First Amendment may be described as “offensive”. I don't think that that ordinance could stand up to a constitutional challenge. My understanding is that in 2009 the Virginia Supreme Court struck down Virginia Beach's noise ordinance because it was unconstitutionally vague. Ulysses was banned in the US on obscenity grounds, what are your views about that? As I have already pointed out, it is possible to be offensive without resorting to four letter words (Gobdaw and George are good examples of this). Are certain words offensive because of how they sound or the meaning behind them? I presume we all agree that it is the meaning behind the word? That being so, is it offensive when an Irishman says: "Hey Sean, how the f--- are you?". I would say it isn't. It conveys a sense of familiarity and a healthy distaste for sensitivity. Above all else, a greeting such as that is probably more sincere than an 'apple pie' "hello, so good to see you" type of greeting. Above all else, it is an expression freely chosen and it is questionable if any place that would punish such an expression could be described as a free society.

• joycean | Feb 18, 2012, 04:03 PM EST

  kinvara7, Va.Beach's ordinance has been on the books since 2000. There is a world of difference between California and Virginia, and obsenity is anything that offends the prevailing sense of decency.

• joycean | Feb 18, 2012, 03:24 PM EST

  sirpeter, There are 19 separate museums in the Smithsonian; only 2 are dedicated to American Indians. American Indians are not extinct. My husband's greatx5 grandmother was a full-blooded Cherokee. So my children also have Indian blood.

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 18, 2012, 03:08 PM EST

  Speaking of Beckett, kinvara reminds me of the veracity of Beckett's dictum: "We are all born mad. Some remain so."

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 18, 2012, 03:04 PM EST

  I certainly have nothing to learn about what is left of Irish culture from a racist poltroon like kinvara. Congratulations--you know how to google, kinvara. As we saw from your laughable effort to write in Irish, you even know how to use Google Translator! But, to the substantive point. You know absolutely nothing about James Joyce. A scholarly study of the topic, by one Tim Conley, yielded a comparison between Lawrence's Lady Chatterley and Joyce as regards use of vulgarities. I can't quote it here, as Conley provides a table which would be unformatted here, but the essense is this: There are no uses of either the F word or the C word in Finnegans Wake. In Ulysses, the C word is used once. In Lawrence, these and other words are used profusely. Far from being the succession of vulgarities that you imagine Joyce's prose to be, Ulysses and FW are prudent and restrained. They certainly do not mirror the speech of today's Irish in that regard. Why don't you go read these books rather than googling them, kinvara? Start with "Dubliners", it's pretty easy to read. But don't be diappointed--it contains none of your vulgar language.

• kinvara7 | Feb 18, 2012, 02:30 PM EST

  @George: When it comes to the expansion of your ignorance, your mind clearly has a policy akin to 'manifest destiny'! Joyce uses the F word and the C word and many others in Ulysess: "I know every turn in him Ill tighten my bottom well and let out a few smutty words smellrump or lick my s--- or the first mad thing comes into my head" (U 930). Or what about his cryptic cursing: "If you see kay/ Tell him he may/ See you in tea/ Tell him from me. (U 616). Do you get it, George? "If you see kay" You, do now! (Notice where I placed the comma). There is so much yet to teach you about Irish culture, George.

• ambert | Feb 18, 2012, 02:28 PM EST

  Wow, I felt like a bit of an arse reading this. I mean, I've never shopped at A&F or Hollister; I haven't been to New York in over 20 years; I don't watch Jerry Springer, blah blah blah...but please don't "shut up already about rugby!" I'd, personally, like to learn more about it. And the only reason I wouldn't want you to speak with an American accent is because I love the Irish accent. I would only consider myself blessed to be able to actually go to Ireland one day and be able to learn some of the history from those who live among it, and to witness her beauty first hand. <3

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 18, 2012, 12:08 PM EST

  Since I bet kinvara has never read a word of Beckett or has never attended one of his plays, he is of course quite ignorant of the fact that you can scour the work of Beckett (and indeed Joyce) and you'll find none of the crude cliches that flow so trippingly from the Irish tongue. Listen, kinvara, if you're so inarticulate you can curse in Ireland till you are blue in the face. But don't pollute our American ears with your tired old vulgarities.

• kinvara7 | Feb 18, 2012, 11:11 AM EST

  @Joycean: The idea that certain American cities would try to ban certain words seems to go against the principle of free speech (Cohen v. California, 403 U.S. 15 (1971). Why should we ban offensive words? It is very easy to be offensive without them (look at Gobdaw's message); surely such words just save time! In the Cohen case a young man entered an LA courthouse wearing a jacket with the words "F---the Draft" on the back. He was charged and convicted of disturbing the peace. The Supreme Court quashed his conviction on free speech grounds. Justice John Harlan, in stating why society must tolerate bad language said: "(W)hile the particular four letter word being litigated here is perhaps more distasteful than most others of its genre, it is nevertheless often true that one man's vulgarity is another's lyric." Harlan also noted that the use of curse words serves a "dual communicative function," not only as the expression of an idea but as an emotional vehicle. "Words," Harlan said, "are often chosen as much for their emotive as their cognitive force." Anyway, I think it was Beckett who once said: "Words are all we have."

• sirpeter | Feb 18, 2012, 10:31 AM EST

  Georgie Fairytales,Gobshite Paddy and Joycean Fiction.Finally exposed for what they are ~ Shallow,Culture less rednecks.The Irish-American Smithsonian Institute of everybody else's culture.LOL.90% of the articles on IC is related to Ireland and Irish culture.What are ye doing on IC talking about Irish culture for?The only culture worth studying in America of any value is Native American culture and ye exterminated those people AND their culture.Every Native American artifact in the Smithsonian Institute crys out for your white cracker blood.Not so when I travel Ireland and it's museums.Every inch of Ireland it's mountains and beaches,streams and rivers and every Irish historical artifact,every city and town whispers it's yours and this is where you belong.Without that ye have nothing.Without Ireland and it's culture ye lot would be nothing.

• joycean | Feb 18, 2012, 10:09 AM EST

  greenshoes88,Most of the readers here are Americans, so we realize the Pledge of Allegiance is recited in our schools every day, although it is not manditory for students to recite it. We also recite it on other occasions and stand for our National Anthem. Personnally, I think it is a good thing to teach our children to love and respect our country. However, as a non-American, you are under no such obligation.

• joycean | Feb 18, 2012, 10:04 AM EST

  warrior Poet, I've never been to Amsterdam either although I have been to other European countries. It was just a generalization about what young Amercians who are my age were doing in Europe the 20th Cent. Of course, not everyone. What they were doing in Amsterdam was acting big and enjoying the legal marijuana.

• WarriorPoet | Feb 18, 2012, 09:54 AM EST

  @Joycean I have been to Europe multiple times and have yet to visit Amsterdam. Ireland, Turkey, Austria, England... But no Amsterdam so be careful how you toss out generalizations. @greenshoes88 I know our history and I know your history also...

• greenshoes88 | Feb 18, 2012, 09:33 AM EST

  Does any1 else realize that the kids in america have to pledge to the american flag everyday (brainwashed) just like the kids in germany had to do in the 1940's ?

• greenshoes88 | Feb 18, 2012, 09:31 AM EST

  hi i'm irish and i know that new york is only a bit of america, were not all stupid, americans think they know everything. all they know is their own history

• joycean | Feb 18, 2012, 08:27 AM EST

  There is an interesting contrast between American tourists to Europe and European tourists to the United States. In the 19th Cent., wealthy young Americans went on the Grand Tour. In the 20th Cent. middle class Americans considered a trip to Europe an important rite of passage. The 19th Cent. tour meant visiting castles and museums. The 20th, visiting Amsterdam. The US has cultural centers (the Smithsonian). But it seems the Irish prefer shopping centers where they can get bargains on consumer goods mostly made in China.

• joycean | Feb 18, 2012, 08:18 AM EST

  George, you are right in your post's implication that the ideal visitor to this country would be someone who is NOT "ignorant of their country's history and culture, uncurious about the history and geography of the US."

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 18, 2012, 07:59 AM EST

  mallieup, I have an Irish friend who lived in New York for 10 years. I enquired once if he had any regrets about returning to Ireland. Tongue in cheek he replied that he had thoroughly enjoyed his time in the states, having learned the virtue of a daily shower, use of deodorant, mouthwash, cologne, toothpaste etc. It was noticed when the smoking ban came into effect in Ireland's bars that smoke had been masking many other odours for years. While this may have embarrassed people into addressing their BO problem, breaking wind in public is still considered hilarious, 'jayz Paddy if fa****g wuz in de limpics, you'd be far***g for Ireland, hahahaha.....'.I understand how the Healy-Rae's get elected there.

• sirpeter | Feb 17, 2012, 04:38 PM EST

  I agree with you Georgie Boy.Even after three generations in America they still don't change.Those Irish that leave Ireland are a bad unpleasant lot.Well rid of them so we are.

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 17, 2012, 04:16 PM EST

  I haven't had much contact with the current wave of Irish aliens, but in the later 1980s I lived in NYC, and thus came into contact with many of the illegals of that era. I recall that many Irish-Americans sought to help these people, but the almost universal judgment after just a short contact with them was they were loud mouths (and foul mouths), arrogant, know-alls (who actually knew very little) ignorant of their country's history and culture, uncurious about the history and geography of the US west of Van Cortland in the Bronx, less than hygienic, drunks, and generally an unpleasant lot. Reading the posts from people like curdexter tells me that nothing has changed.

• sirpeter | Feb 17, 2012, 04:07 PM EST

  joycean.Obviously not all Americans are highly offended by obscene language as you have stated.I'm trying to think how obscene language is a problem.The only conclusion I can come to is the loudness of the way people talk.In Ireland we get a lot of French and Spanish students during the summer and I swear if you had 30 Irish people in a restaurant and 5 French or Spanish students at a table they would give you a headache they are so loud.Even if they were 50 feet away.If they were using obscene language then it would sound very bad.In Cork in order to hear a conversation you would have to be within 8 feet with good hearing.Any noise forget it.The word fu*k is used alot and that's really is about the only word.I never hear it on the beach and people tend to speak quietly in outdoor cafes because you don't want strangers hearing your conversation.My conclusion is Va.Beach has an obscene language problem exacerbated by a loud voice problem.Whatever about the bad language.If the tourists have a extra loud voice.That would annoy me more.

• NiGhabhainn | Feb 17, 2012, 03:38 PM EST

  As I said Joycean, easily roused!!!!! :-)

• joycean | Feb 17, 2012, 02:04 PM EST

  sirpeter,You are correct that Americans are highly offended by obscene language. I love Virginia Beach. it is a beautiful city, quite close to where I live, and Virginia's largest city. The problem isn't that Virginians do not teach their children to refrain from using obscenities.As a parent and former teacher, I can assure you, they do. Parents and teachers are very strict about it. But Va.Beach is a resort, and people come here to vacation from throughout the Mid-Atlantic region (New York, New Jersey). The city has spent millions of dollars upgrading its oceanfront with miles of replenished sand, and a wide boardwalk with outdoor cafes, plantings, bicycle and walk ways.It is the most beautiful oceanfront on the East Coast. and the city does not want it to become raunchy.

• sirpeter | Feb 17, 2012, 01:20 PM EST

  @ciaradexy. Good!!Glad you like the white horse I rode in on.But my comment wasn't to rescue ya.LOL.You fit in quite well here.I was pointing out to our American buddies that there are plenty ways of been vulgar and obnoxious.It amuses me that Americans here consider swear words high on the list of been offensive.It also amuses me that the city of Virginia Beach (the only city in the world) appear to have a serious foul language problem.Obliviously this is a reflection on themselves and their inability to teach their loud mouthed kids where and when swear words are exceptable or not at all,if that is the parents wishes.It's a bit like spending too much time on spelling and punctuation when the content of a comment is that of an idiot.Eighty-four comments on a stupid article. Anyway the bouncers are throwing me out of this article now.No intelligent people allowed on the Jerry Springer Show.

• ancavker | Feb 17, 2012, 12:53 PM EST

  gob: I am a big Rugby fan as well, much prefer it to Soccer, and American Football. 2 40 minute halves with non-stop action. I have no problem that the English invented the game. I do root for the Irish team however. Also De Valera was a huge Rugby fan, ironic since the revisionists paint him as bitterly anti-English, which is a myth, and which is for another topic.

• ciaradexy | Feb 17, 2012, 11:19 AM EST

  Well look ye hear! I come back from a productive yet stressful day at work and I read a whole loada posts on here which still make me laugh! Ive not read any posts by irish people on here who are upset, bitching and moaning about this article like the Americans are regarding the previous article. Americans! You have no sense of humour!! Sirpete, that white horse you rode in on is just gorgeous! :0) George, correct my spelling if you wish but one message at a time is plenty from you. No need to post the same message twice.

• mallieup | Feb 17, 2012, 10:53 AM EST

  Another hint; more deodorant use please!

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 17, 2012, 10:46 AM EST

  On no. 7, I suggest that more americans might enjoy rugby if we took time to watch and learn about it. It is a far more exciting and skillful game than our football, demanding a much superior fitness level. It is also far more exciting than soccer. I have got up very early here in the states to watch Ireland and Munster games (the missus thinks I'm crazy). I have attended a few games at the magnificent stadium, Thomond Park. I was present on opening night when Munster played the All Blacks and even though Munster lost in the final minutes, it was exhilirating. The respect demonstrated by the mostly munster crowd to the visitors was impressive and was acknowleged by the New Zealand team in their applause of the fans as they walked around the pitch. I read afterwards where one of Doug howlett's (munster) former all black colleagues asked him after the game 'is it always like this here'? Howlett apparently teared up and answered 'yes'. also rugby encompasses a lot more countries than the six nations. There is the whole southern hemisphere involved, the Hong Kong 7's, South Africa etc.

• joycean | Feb 17, 2012, 10:45 AM EST

  NiGhabhainn, If you look at some of the other posts on this site, you will see Americans have been frquently told what the Irish think Americans when they visit Ireland. This essay is meant as payback. Who did my ancestors stay with when they went to the states? They stayed with their relatives from Ireland who had come a few years earlier. By 1900, there were very few Native Americans living in Boston. Your question is bizarre. I think the reason these posters are so Anti-Irish is that there are so many Irish who post things like yours.

• NiGhabhainn | Feb 17, 2012, 10:12 AM EST

  How rude of you all! I agree with "Ireland North", lay off the red meat a little!!!! I thought this was an Irish - Irish/American magazine? I could start up about what some people here think of Americans when they visit, but whats the point of that! Those who make such comments are just as ignorant. Who did your ancenstors stay with when they went to the States? Unless you're Native Americans then you may swallow your own words. I have travelled from East Coast, down South, to West Coast and further to HI. I've experienced living in many US states and Im a full blooded Irish red head from mama Éire. I have never met as rude a people as those who have posted on this article with a view point so anti Irish. I am sorry you have met the few that wound you up, but maybe you're easily roused! If you are Irish American with strong Irish roots, then shame on you..Emma Ní Ghabhainn, bean na hÉireann

• johhnyb | Feb 17, 2012, 09:29 AM EST

  Number 7 isn't so difficult: Ireland England Scotland Wales France Italy Six of them, hence the name - six nations championship. There now, that wasn't too hard, was it?

• joycean | Feb 17, 2012, 08:17 AM EST

  Gobdawpaddy,Va.Beach does indeed have an ordinance against public obscenity and signs are prominently posted.The city passed the ordinance in 2000 because it wanted to be clear that it's beach is a public, family recreation area. Too many tourists seemed unaware of local standards of decency.

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 17, 2012, 07:33 AM EST

  "Low and behold". Curdexter, I'm sick of correcting your English. What you wrote is gibberish. The correct version is "Lo and behold". "Lo" is an archaic form of "look". The Irish kid themselves that they have a good educational system--we see evidence to the contrary here every day.

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 17, 2012, 07:15 AM EST

  "Low and behold". Curdexter, I'm sick of correcting your English. What you wrote is gibberish. The correct version is "Low and behold". "Lo" is an archaic form of "look". The Irish kid themselves that they have a good educational system--we see evidence to the contrary here every day.

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 17, 2012, 06:43 AM EST

  Ah Peter, don't worry about Ciara. With the mountain girl, truck driver demeanor she exhibits here, she is well able for the guys. Joycean, putting up signs banning foul language wouldn't work as they don't appear to be able to understand signs over there. There is a stretch of highway in Limerick where 20 people a week are found to be driving in the wrong direction. They have a similar problem dealing with signs/arrows on roundabouts. Of course speed signs are there for decoration. If the city of Virginia Beach has an ordinance banning foul language, I would suggest that visitors from Ireland stay away. I am fairly sure that a night in jail is not part of an Irish person's vacation plans in the US. Of course I am sure many have spent a night in the drunk tank having learned the hard way that a vacation in the civilized world does not entail drinking all day. It may be tolerated in Ireland but in civilization, it is not acceptable. Also, what does the middle east have to do with this topic?

• IrelandNorth | Feb 17, 2012, 05:49 AM EST

  Gee, guys! The hostility on this website is really getting too much. Testoserone charged. Any chance of youse guys cutting back on your red meat intake. It's getting to the stage that I have to put on a flak jacket before logging on in case I get hit in the crossfire. It's getting to be like Tombstone City on a bad day, of Belfast on a good one. And leave poor Ciara[s]exy alone. Foul-mouthed women turn me on.

• Murph46 | Feb 16, 2012, 11:04 PM EST

  Sirpeter you defend someone who wanted somone beaten to death? Just Sayin!

• WarriorPoet | Feb 16, 2012, 10:48 PM EST

  I realize that this was an attempt to make up for the last post but really? Jerry Springer has been off of the air for almost a decade. Additionally, I love Munster Rugby and believe it there are plenty of non-professional Rugby players in the states. Also, I may know your friend or cousin who went to Boston or Chicago, and would have no problem if they needed a place to crash. I was welcomed in Ireland in the warmest way why would I be any less gracious? I am very interested in the European Union because we own their debt in our banks so as Europe goes so to do American Banks. I love fake American Accents and when I struggled to say on the train near Kilkenny in a horrible broken Irish Accent, "They killed Kenny, the Bastards!" I had people rolling in the isles... So again how could I be any less gracious then those who chuckled at my ignorance? Also... We like to think of ourselves as a continent but we are not, we are part of a continent... 'America' is not just the United States. And lastly, I'd help someone immigrate to the states from Ireland because America needs more green in the world, and likewise I'd love to immigrate to Ireland, but I wouldn't even know where to start.

• Murph46 | Feb 16, 2012, 10:44 PM EST

  Chill out sirpeter what are you her Knight Errant?If she can't handle the heat ,get out of the kitchen.She goes so far off tangent,I'm beginning to wonder....

• sirpeter | Feb 16, 2012, 09:46 PM EST

  Another dumb article and ye don't even see the way ye act.Six men rounding on ciaradexy.A woman!!.You see I find that a lot more disgusting than foul words.Where is the respect here for women?.Foul words are a lot more deserving of contempt according to ye lot.Foul language is offensive to some but 6 people all criticizing a lone woman is 10 times worse.Any sane person can see that GeorgeDillon & Gobdawpaddy are rotten to the core.The rest of ye join in with them?? Six people hammering her on the one page.Ye really do have a lynch mob mentality.Why don't ye bomb the foul language out of Ireland.Ye are bombing everyone else ye find offensive.Iran next isn't it??They will roll up the American flag and the lynch mob that is America will stand under it.It used to be the redskins now it's the ragheads.You Irish Americans are either with Ireland or against us to quote George W Bush.But to be Irish American it's Irish rules.So get over how we fuc*kin' express ourselves~~Motherfu*kers.Nice America foul language there.

• uliecoolie | Feb 16, 2012, 09:44 PM EST

  so funny!!!

• Murph46 | Feb 16, 2012, 08:15 PM EST

  ancavker give up with ciara she has shown a distinct propensity not to stick to the subject-maybe why Georgie calls her curdexter!

• seanomelb | Feb 16, 2012, 07:30 PM EST

  Antoinette Kelly is a dumb Irish American broad,silly article.

• joycean | Feb 16, 2012, 07:20 PM EST

  Joan1954, You brought up an interesting point:Irish visitors to this country rarely go beyond a few places. I lived in San Antonio for awhile, but probably most Americans aren't that familiar with San Antonio, even though we probably have heard of the Alamo. I am a little surprised by what places that tourists have and have not heard of. For instance, we ran into some young Europeans in Key West. An Irish relative of mine said she had been on a bus tour that included Lancaster Pa. We also ran into an Irish pub owner who said he had been to Norfolk, Va., until we pressed, and he admitted he thought it was in Connecticut. He had no idea where Chesapeake Bay is. I think Americans don't think of what would interest foreign visitors, because until the dollar fell in relation to the Euro, most visitors to American tourist destinations were other Americans. Now America seems to be a shopping destination.

• ancavker | Feb 16, 2012, 07:02 PM EST

  ciara: Generalize!!! not even close. I attempted to have a back and forth give and take discussion with you. You do not appear to understand what that entails. You gave nothing. did not even remotely agree or acknowledge that any of my points might be valid. And then of course you want on to criticize America in the Middle East which by the way I do not as many other Americans agree with. We should not be there period. We are following in the foot steps of you know who located on the other side of the Irish sea. One final point the C word is disgusting!!! Not to mention ignorant and low class. You wnat to swear, swear all you want, but stop with that vile word. Now I really am done having any further conversation with you; its simply exasperating.

• ciaradexy | Feb 16, 2012, 04:14 PM EST

  Youre generalizing Ancavker in regards to Irish people so ive just done the same in regards to Americans but you dont seem to understand that.

• ancavker | Feb 16, 2012, 04:13 PM EST

  Speaking of Abercrombie, they released their 4 the quarter earnings the other day down 79%!!!!

• ancavker | Feb 16, 2012, 04:12 PM EST

  gob: You bring up valid points, ciara, changes the subject to wars in the Middle East. No give and take, it is this kind of arrogance that turns me off from so many of the Irish in ireland today,and they are my own people. Not an inch!!! and who said that was just an Ulster Unionist trait.

• joycean | Feb 16, 2012, 04:07 PM EST

  Gobdawpaddy, You should come to Virginia Beach. A few years ago the city passed an ordinance outlawing obscene language in public. There are signs along the sidewalk:@Z#!! with a line through it.

• ciaradexy | Feb 16, 2012, 04:06 PM EST

  Yep George, that was me. Definitely. I originally saw a photo of you and thought, Id love to be just like that fat old yank in the Ireland tracksuit, farting away with his @rse crack hanging out. Low and behold my wish was granted!

• GeorgeDillon | Feb 16, 2012, 04:03 PM EST

  curdexter: Are you the fat slob with your belly hanging out of a running suit I saw lining up for the Dublin flight at JFK a few months back? That's another way we notice the Irish--they tend to be badly-dressed fat pigs, very often with dirty running suits and sneakers. They think bath is a town in England. Sounds like you, curdexter?

• conorsmom | Feb 16, 2012, 04:02 PM EST

  Now, Now children! Have we all lost our sense of humor?? If we are going to dish it out we should have to be able to take it! You should all take a good long breath, let it out and MOVE ON!

• ciaradexy | Feb 16, 2012, 03:46 PM EST

  Thats all well and good Gobdaw,Im more offended by irish people going abroad and going to 'Irish' bars. Americans are in the Middle East murdering civilians in an illegal war but Im not claiming all Americans are murderers without decorum! Maybe they also should not have been allowed off the rock that is the US?

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 16, 2012, 03:36 PM EST

  Ciara, they obviously didn't care what 'anybody' thought of them. Every year thousands of Irish people visit the US and so many of them should never have been let off the rock. They bring down the tone of the establishments they visit with their use of foul language and toilet humor. A few months ago I had two American colleagues who are based in Dublin visit me in New York. We went for a drink to a well known Irish establishment in Manhattan. There was a group of Irish males in proximity to us engaging in conversation with their usual 'colorful' vocabulary. Looking towards them, one of my female visitors lamented 'I thought we left that kind of language back in Ireland'. Here in the states we are not angels, but recognize there is a time and place and it is not constant. As we were departing this establishment two of our Irish visitors had stepped outside for a cigarette. One took what was obviously his last one from the box and tossed it into the street. Well lo and behold wasn't there one of New York's finest nearby who ordered him to pick it up and put it in the trash can. I smiled to myself. So many of them have no decorum.

• ciaradexy | Feb 16, 2012, 03:21 PM EST

  Mallieup-the people you are refering to who swear in front of kids are known as skangers.

• mallieup | Feb 16, 2012, 02:59 PM EST

  I have to agree. The bad language is very offensive. And they don't care if children are present when they are cursing and swearing. They seem to have no sense of their audience

• Jimsales74 | Feb 16, 2012, 02:53 PM EST

  Perhaps the Irish love New York because real New Yorkers curse like they do. You got a problem with that? Stay in F#%@in' Ohio!

• ciaradexy | Feb 16, 2012, 02:47 PM EST

  WWHHAATT??? Women swear too?? This is an outrage!

• ciaradexy | Feb 16, 2012, 02:33 PM EST

  Ancavker-Of course I will! But the labels I bought were italian! Although Kiehls is American AND my favourite! Gobdaw, maybe they just had no respect for you or didnt really care what you thought of them?

• ancavker | Feb 16, 2012, 02:32 PM EST

  gob: Understood, but you would think for such a highly educated people they would not lower themselves to use the C word, and in mixed company, and women use it too!!

• ancavker | Feb 16, 2012, 02:30 PM EST

  ciara: You wont even meet me half way, will you? Who said anything about unemployed and track suits. And you are welcome to shop here all you want, but if you want to wear American designed clothes by American fashion designers, than why is it a problem if some Irish-Americans want to wear an Aran sweater?

• gobdawpaddy | Feb 16, 2012, 02:18 PM EST

  ancavker, 1.11 est, you are wasting your time posting here regarding the constant use of foul language by the Irish. I am just back from a ten day visit and it is rampant. I have come to terms with it by recognizing that they simply don't know any better, they have no sense of decorum.

• Erinlady | Feb 16, 2012, 02:10 PM EST

  Lets just stop the name calling we do not all agree with what has been said the past two days.

• ciaradexy | Feb 16, 2012, 01:45 PM EST

  Very true Mallieup! But they all seem to get jobs regardless! That apartment was amazing. My friend is engaged to a guy from NY and when I saw their apartment, well my bedroom is bigger than their whole apartment, and the rent!! Yikes!!!

• mallieup | Feb 16, 2012, 01:39 PM EST

  J1 young adults. I know our temperatures hit the 90s but you still have to dress up for a job interview. Bring at least one summer dress up outfit. Your apartments will not look like the set of Friends, and you most likely will not be living in Manhattan. It's best to get over that disappointment quickly.

• ciaradexy | Feb 16, 2012, 01:32 PM EST

  Im Irish living in Ireland and I dont find it offensive. The sort of people who are long term unemployed through choice and who wear tracksuits all the time offend me but I dont hang out with people like that so thats ok for me. You dont live here so dont worry about it! I bought loads of Philosophy products in Sephora and Kiehls procducts which are SO much cheaper than here. I also got a few decent coats, jeans, shoes and trainers. The coats and shoes had labels but I was in Filenes basement so I wasnt looking for labels. They were beautiful items so I bought them. I went shopping on my own, I didnt need a chaperone! I will probably be back over there in August to visit friends and buy some more stuff to fill my wardrobe some more.

• ancavker | Feb 16, 2012, 01:11 PM EST

  ciara: One final point, and this bothers me a lot as an Irish-Irish-American if you will, and that simply is the disgustingly common use of the C word by so many Irish in Ireland. It is incredibly offensive and ignorant.

• ancavker | Feb 16, 2012, 01:08 PM EST

  ciara: I understand the shopping is cheaper here, but trust me it was insane with the Irish for a while, coming over on long shopping weekends, just to shop coming over at Christmas just to shop, and the obsessive fascination with labels. One thing for the teens and 20 somethings, but quite amusing for the old timers. Not to mention the Irish were coming here buying designer this and that, that most Irish-Americans would not waste their money on, and then shipping it all back home in trunks!!! Yeah it was amusing. Not only that, but we were supposed to take days off to take them to all the malls and outlets. We go over, and in many cases there is not even time to sit down and have a cup of tea. And yes it was amusing to many Irish-Americans to see this obsession with shopping and clothes, when so many of these Irish-Americans literally had to give the clothes off their backs to the very same cousins back in the 70's when they were kids and went home every summer for 6 weeks.

• Murph46 | Feb 16, 2012, 01:06 PM EST

  If you're Irish come into the parlor there's a welcome here for you,If your name is Timothy or Pat as long as you come from Ireland there's a welcome on the mat,If ya come from the Mountains O'Mourne (been there),or Kilarney's lakes(there too) so blue,wherever you are your one of us ,come into the house have fun with us -If your Irish -this is the place for you!I'm havin a Hooley at my house late spring early summer with the finest Irish Tenor in the states to sing-C'mon over!

• Jamcelt | Feb 16, 2012, 12:54 PM EST

  joan1954: Are you serious? The Irish have more than enough battle/massacre sites of their own to give the proverbial rat's red ass about the Alamo. Why don't you show us all your vast knowledge of the Battle of Carrickfergus? I can just see the dust cloud as you run to get on to Wikipedia. I cannot understand YOUR ignorance in judging a people because they don't give a **** about San Antonio. Murph46: How many of those words apply here, do you think?

• joan1954 | Feb 16, 2012, 12:37 PM EST

  All of this stems from the Irish Comfort zones of New York, Boston and Chicago maybe even San Francisco but these cities are not the only ones in this great country. From my own yearly visits to Ireland I cannot understand their ignorance. For example, they know about the Alamo but they don't think of it as being in San Antonio but someplace else. The southern part of the US is far less expensive to visit than the cities mentioned and the stores are just as good.

• ciaradexy | Feb 16, 2012, 12:25 PM EST

  These sort of articles are quite funny! Joycean, the reason irish shop in NY is because it is so much cheaper than here and obviously there is more variety too. Its nice to have clothes that you know everyone you meet wont be wearing the same things! I bought clothes and cosmetics etc for about $1000 which would have cost over €2500 at home. Paid an extra $100 in JFK to get them all home but it was well worth it.

• christilcaugh | Feb 16, 2012, 11:44 AM EST

  I agree with carrickcourt, let it be.

• robynbird | Feb 16, 2012, 11:41 AM EST

  wow...I have enjoyed reading your newletter but I have to say you do seem like you are trying to cause a division between Americans and Irish (directly from Ireland of course) in regards to cultue and politics. Of all countries, I would expect the 'Irish' to understand the the plight we are on in this country with the threat of socialism looming in our doorway with Obama and his administration and with the forcing of Catholic churches to put aside their beliefs on contraception...Bill of Rights is supposed to protect us...that is why we have a high number of people trying to get in this country...because of it's freedoms and opportunities. Not liking where your articles are leading

• Murph46 | Feb 16, 2012, 11:40 AM EST

  Jamcelt you hit the nail on the head,your words are great keep 'em coming,I particularly like twaddle ,tripe and tosh . And DO they apply!Thanks!

• joycean | Feb 16, 2012, 11:37 AM EST

  I think it is interesting that Irish people come here to shop. All I usually bring home from Europe are handmade items (like Irish woven throws, since Aran sweaters are too warm for our climate).

• carrickcourt | Feb 16, 2012, 11:29 AM EST

  Oh dear what a fine mess you have gotten your self in Irish Central. Let the Irish be Irish and let the Irish-Americans just be Americans.

• johnshiel | Feb 16, 2012, 11:19 AM EST

  ignorance on parade is never pretty... better to just leave it in the closet.

• Heather911 | Feb 16, 2012, 11:02 AM EST

  This is just plain silly and insulting. I am American and I embrace the Irish/Scottish Culture because my Grandfather Talley was Irish/scottish. It seems to me that Irish Central is promoting hatred between the Americans and the Irish with foolish stereotypes.

• ConnieCobe | Feb 16, 2012, 11:00 AM EST

  Oh boy, what a messy, messy topic to put in the these last 2 posts. I happen to LOVE going to Ireland and interacting with the people there. I have met some of my Ireland friends here in the states when they come over and have equally enjoyed my time with them here. WHY can't we all just play nice?!

• Borderboy | Feb 16, 2012, 10:59 AM EST

  Re. point 10, 'we're a continent', get over it already yourself. The United States – commonly referred to as 'America' is a country. It is an integral part of the continent of North America which includes the bigger landmass country of Canada, Mexico, all the Caribbean islands (including socialist Cuba) and all the Central American countries of Guatemala, El Salvador, Belize, Honduras, Costa Rica and Panama with its canal. In fact, the continent of North America with all its rich colour, variety and history stretches all the way down to Columbia… but let's not go there because that is the start of South America. This is what happens when you fill editorial space with half-baked opinions based on stereotypes!

• joycean | Feb 16, 2012, 10:59 AM EST

  As some other posters have said, this list is disappointing in tone. It does sound bitter and unfriendly. I love the European Union, especially France, Germany, Spain, and Austria. It is great to be able to travel from one to another without digging out a passport and exchanging money. But the United States is a vast single country that extends from the Alaskan Tundra to the Hawaiian Islands in the South Pacific. It has incredible mountains, beautiful white sandy beaches, Niagara Falls, the Grand Canyon, amazing cities, and enough farmland to feed the world. No one could experience all of it in a lifetime. I have a friend who has been to all 50 states, but, even he hasn't been able to spend enough time in most of them. Imagine spending a vacation a year in a different state: it would take you fifty years!

• debimcguin | Feb 16, 2012, 10:51 AM EST

  As much as I understand the Americans being upset yesterday. This come back really isn't necessary, it makes the Americans look worse!!!! It was better left alone, and say nothing, then reply like this.

• Jamcelt | Feb 16, 2012, 10:51 AM EST

  Murph 46: All these words have the same meaning as codswallop. Some you certainly know, but maybe there is a word or two for you in there somewhere. All these words are applicable to this article and the greater part of the comments that followed. Nonsense, rubbish, drivel, claptrap, twaddle, bunkum, baloney, tripe, tosh.

• Jamcelt | Feb 16, 2012, 10:37 AM EST

  It is truly a blessing that the Irish have so many intelligent, worldly, well informed and truly capable people to set them straight. No doubt they will really listen to all of your intellectually charged little nuggets here, and use them to become a better nation. Like anybody else in here, I am sure they will ignore this petty article and the even more petty comments from people who obviously have VERY little else to do.

• BrendanDunphy | Feb 16, 2012, 10:33 AM EST

  Number 12: Most of us do not fit the stereotypes you have of us, i.e., being loud, fat, stupid, flag-waving, self-centered, war-mongerers. Come to America for your opinion rather than form your opinion based on the Yankee visitors to Eire.

• Murph46 | Feb 16, 2012, 10:32 AM EST

  Thank you Jamcelt,I was looking for a new word -codswallop-very interesting!Got any more?

• BrendanDunphy | Feb 16, 2012, 10:31 AM EST

  Number 11: when we refer to ourselves as "Irish" or "Italian", etc., we're not meant to be taken so literally! So stop flattering yourselves! We KNOW we're not really Irish. It is an American cultural thing to identify with your heritage. The Europeans just don't get it.

• mallieup | Feb 16, 2012, 10:30 AM EST

  14. Your smugness regarding the Irish education system is tedious and misinformed. The superiority is certainly not reflected in your citizens' writing output on Facebook. Here's a hint; the not da.

• mallieup | Feb 16, 2012, 10:27 AM EST

  11. We find your constant swearing offensive. 12. Do you have any hobbies that do not involve alcohol? 13. Congratulations for embracing your stereotypes. I'm not sure what you've won though.

• Jamcelt | Feb 16, 2012, 10:22 AM EST

  Irish Central is now just delving into the realms of stupidity. There MUST be something newsworthy to write about instead of this codswallop.

• TheOldPerfessor | Feb 16, 2012, 10:17 AM EST

  Can't we all just get along?

• fawnmarie | Feb 16, 2012, 10:11 AM EST

  Number 10 is the only one I'd stand by. I have European friends who ask me why Americans don't travel that much international. My response was "Because we don't NEED to."

• Murph46 | Feb 16, 2012, 10:11 AM EST

  Fifty states! According to oue esteemed president,there are fifty -seven!

• ancavker | Feb 16, 2012, 09:53 AM EST

  We don't all sit on bar stools in the Bronx singing Sean South of Garryowen.

• CBC | Feb 16, 2012, 09:52 AM EST

  I take exception to #7. I'm a Yank & love rugby! May I suggest a replacement? "Just because I'm from Massachusetts, doesn't mean I know the Kennedys"

• kinvara7 | Feb 16, 2012, 09:40 AM EST

  @Antoinette Kelly: There are fifty states and Washington D.C. which is a federal district. While the other list certainly caused a stir amongst Irish Americans, this list seems a little bitter. I think someone should write an article which sets out ways in which stronger ties could be fostered between Ireland and the Irish diaspora; there are misconceptions on both sides, so how do we correct them? IC needs to up its game.

• CitizenWhy | Feb 16, 2012, 09:39 AM EST

  My, my, some people are a bit cranky because they have had some bad experiences with people from Ireland. I haven't. But there are some quirky cultural differences. My relatives from Ireland, for instance, simply cannot understand why Americans like Disney World and they also think it's amusing that long city streets and avenues do not change their names every few blocks or so. But they like America (US and Canada), New York, The Bronx, Long Island, the Midwest, Toronto, Quebec, Florida, California. They especially like Arizona and New Mexico.

• wyalusingjohn | Feb 16, 2012, 09:38 AM EST

  Another silly, insulting, subjective list.

• Murph46 | Feb 16, 2012, 09:29 AM EST

  Bet you won't have 178 comments on this Niall!

• zpaul | Feb 16, 2012, 09:26 AM EST

  Where'd the extra state come from? There are 50 of them, not 51.

• hooligan6a | Feb 16, 2012, 09:24 AM EST

  Very silly !!

• Ms.Gail | Feb 16, 2012, 08:54 AM EST

  Thank you jerbear. I'm in Michigan too - one of the FIFTY states. That "fake" American accent comes from the "median American accent" typical of the midwest. Each section of the country has amazing opportunities. AND I thought this item was just RUDE. Both yesterday's and today's items are devisive and counter to the goal of Irish Central. If this is to continue I will look elsewhere for my Irish updates and suggest same to all my friends in the Irish American community and on facebook. I will also advise the advertisers here to look elsewhere to advertise to us.

• jerbear823 | Feb 16, 2012, 08:22 AM EST

  I hate to tell you this but there are only 50 states,and if you have been to that mad house of a city called N.Y you have missed a great many things of the U.S.The west is great as is the south and Michigan is the best.

• miabryant | Feb 16, 2012, 08:08 AM EST

  Who comes up with these lists? They sound more like ONE persons Top 10 instead of a majority.

• shannontravers | Feb 16, 2012, 07:53 AM EST

  should have been foreigners, I missed the "g".

• shannontravers | Feb 16, 2012, 07:52 AM EST

  The sad fact of the matter is that probably all foreiners know more about the US than we citizens do. Just read the questions on a naturalization test and see how many you can answer without referring to text for help. Not many Im sure.

• shannontravers | Feb 16, 2012, 07:50 AM EST

  Spot on!