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The Irish American question - am I Irish or American?

In New Jersey it’s one thing, but in Ireland it’s another

KERRY O'SHEA,

IrishCentral.com Intern

Published Friday, October 21, 2011, 7:31 AM

Updated Friday, October 21, 2011, 10:08 AM

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Irish or American? A hard one to call.

Photo by Decatur

In New Jersey, I know what I am, and so does mostly everyone else. It’s easy, sure, I’m Irish. (Again, the name pretty much gives it away). In America you can be Irish, German, Italian, Polish, this or that or some exotic mix of them all. It’s only in rare cases do you find someone who identifies as simply “American”.

But as I’ve travelled between New Jersey and Ireland, as well as a few other European countries, the question ‘What are you?’ has come up here and there. Meaning, of course, what nationality am I?

Perhaps my earliest encounter with such a discussion was when I was still in elementary school and had to get measured for a uniform for the following year. Standing in line, my name was eventually called up by the tailor. When I got up to the front to have my measurements taken, the tailor asked, “Kerry O’Shea...Polish, right?”

I looked up at him with my childish naivete, confused and astounded all at once. Did he really think I was Polish with a name like Kerry O’Shea?

“No, I’m Irish! My dad’s from Ireland!”
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Evidently he didn’t expect me to be so baffled at his honest joke and laughed in response saying “Oh, you almost had me!” Nowadays, I would joke along and just say, ‘Yes, very Polish.’

Growing up in a small town in New Jersey, I was always known as one of the “Irish” kids. Having a parent from a different country can be sort of a novelty for other kids born to American parents. Young kids meeting my dad and hearing his Irish accent can be thrown off at times, but are always intrigued.

I spent a solid 15 years competitively Irish dancing, so every year for talent shows I was up on stage doing a reel or whatnot. St. Patrick’s Day was an obligatory day off from school, mainly because I was making runs around town to do different performances. I had, literally, the opportunity to put my heritage on display throughout my youth. (Which, of course, doesn’t mean to imply that all Irish dancers are Irish and only Irish, but that’s a whole other discussion.)

In high school, I found my closest friends to be of similar heritage; they were mostly children of one or more immigrants from Ireland. I suppose you could chalk it up to the fact that we had an inherent understanding of each other. We were “the Irish kids,” and all of our parents were friends or, at the very least, acquaintances from when they had first moved to the US when they were younger. Our parents encountered an almost instant sense of community that lingers on today amongst Irish immigrants.

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Hannigan1987 | Apr 19, 2012, 07:01 PM EDT

My names Rob my opinion is you got a some Irish blood in you. For me I am full blooded Irish, I am an American. My Mothers side and Fathers side are both Irish. The thing about Ireland, is that it's an island has been for as geology can remember. People one way or another came by it by boat. I think it's been settled sense 9,000 bc an even then it was surrounded by water. So no one is a natural native of Ireland. Everyone of the six million who live their now and all those six feet under came from some place else. Just wanted to say that and I can't wait to be there in just a sort 14 days. InishBofin here I come.

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coolock5 | Oct 26, 2011, 02:58 PM EDT

There are two separate things - nationality and genealogy. Your nationality is the country you are a citizen of, your genealogy is your ancestry. One's nationality can change, their genealogy cannot. If an Irish couple moves from Ireland to Canada, become Canadian citizens then have a child in Canada, the child is Canadian in nationality, yet all Irish in genealogy. When someone from the U.S. goes to Ireland and says they're "Irish", they mean genealogy, not that they are Irish citizens. Dual citizenship just means one is a citizen of both countries, not that they have one parent from one country while the other is from another country.

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Murph46 | Oct 24, 2011, 01:11 PM EDT

I'm Michael Thomas Patrick Murphy so there's no denying or would there be.I proudly wear a T-shirt that proclaims me a Proud Bog Savage in reference to the derisive term Churchill used to describe the Irish.Being Irish for me isn't only on March 17th,it is truly every day of my life.Up the Irish!

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oTuachair | Oct 23, 2011, 07:39 PM EDT

I’m honored to be an American descended from Irish ancestors. I have studied Irish history and politics, but I understand that I am way too far removed from my Irish ancestry to deserve citizenship, never mind a vote. It is important to remember that the United States is a nation made up primarily of immigrants, which is why so many of us have an interest in genealogy, and knowing from where we came. When we discover a connection to Ireland, we are naturally drawn to it, because it gives us a sense of heritage beyond our American heritage. I'm always very careful to say that my ancestors were Irish, but I am an American....Irishness to me is more about an affection for the ancestral home of my family, a tremendous respect for the Irish people, Irish history, culture and current affairs, and the common bond of shared heritage. Some deserve the slanderous title of "plastic paddy" but I try very hard not to be one of them.

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Gaelphoncán | Oct 23, 2011, 10:35 AM EDT

Sorry, lads, about the multiple posts. My attempts to post seemed not to be going through. The message said "It may take several minutes for your comment to appear" but it was actually more like several hours before they appeared. I wish I could delete the multiple posts. Don't worry - this will only be posted once (now that I know what the craic is regarding posting and how long it can take).

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joycean | Oct 23, 2011, 10:25 AM EDT

Gaelphonican: Most IC readers are Americans of Irish ancestry and would have no problem agreeing that you are Irish, Irish-American, and/or American. Woodkern sounds like (s)he lives in Ireland. I think the attitude (s)he is expressing is very Euopean and shallow. In Germany, I met a young man who wanted to practice his English because he wanted to consider himself English, although he had never been there, had no family there,and didn't speak English, but thought England had the best football (soccer) teams. I think the nationality = geography theory is a reflection of the European theory that WWI, WWII, NI-ROI were the result of Ultra-nationalism, so today's young people have been brought up to see nationalism as evil: you are where you live.

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Eire2009 | Oct 23, 2011, 04:07 AM EDT

You are whatever you think you are until someone points out otherwise. It's a state of mind, really. And just because you have an Irish passport and Irish heritage doesn't necessarily mean you *are* "Irish" in some respects -- of course it depends how you look at it. For exampl, my wife is American, born and raised. She's never been to Ireland and has no familiarity with Gaeilge at all, yet she has the passport with the Harp on it. Although her passport lists her nationality as "Éireannach/Irish" truth be told she's essentially American. She also has Polish ancestry but is one generation too distant from qualifying for a Polish passport. Ethnically she is mainly a mixture of Irish, Polish, German, and Hungarian -- a Euro mutt just like me. There's no doubt that she is very proud to have grandparents from Ireland and Irish lineage, but she views herself as an American who has a second citizenship. That's just her take on it from her upbringing.

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Gaelphoncán | Oct 23, 2011, 02:02 AM EDT

I'm curious as to how people on IC would label me but I've a good idea already. Born and bred in America, I've dual nationality and 2 passports (Irish and American). I'm an Irish citizen (both of my parents had surnames of Gaelic origin), I've a PPS number, have voted in Irish elections and referenda, paid taxes in Ireland (on both sides of the border), I'm fluent in the 2 official languages of the Republic of Ireland agus is í an Ghaeilge an teanga a labhraím go laethúil (sa bhaile) le mo bhean agus lena muintir. I have lived most of the last 20 years (apart from a couple years spent on the continent doing Irish language research) in Ireland and yet I know that there are many people (far too many of them) in Ireland who think as Woodkern does and will never, ever, ever, acknowledge my Irishness. I could live in Ireland for 50 years and be the best Irish speaker in Ireland and people like Woodkern would still dismiss me as an alien. Fair play to Ballyphehane, his (her?) presence on the forum reassures me that at least some of the Irish-born-and-bred on IC are capable of seeing the bigger picture and have the cop-on to understand that identity can be a complex thing and is not as black and white as the likes of Woodkern think (i.e. purely based on geography).

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Gaelphoncán | Oct 23, 2011, 01:06 AM EDT

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Gaelphoncán | Oct 23, 2011, 12:48 AM EDT

I'm curious as to how people on IC would label me but I've a fair idea already. Born and bred in America, I've dual nationality and 2 passports (Irish and American). I'm an Irish citizen (both of my parents had surnames of Gaelic origin), I've a PPS number, have voted in Irish elections and referenda, paid taxes in Ireland (on both sides of the border), am fluent in the 2 official languages of the Republic of Ireland agus is í an Ghaeilge an teanga a labhraím go laethúil (sa bhaile) le mo bhean agus lena muintir. I have lived most of the last 20 years (apart from a couple years spent on the continent doing Irish language research) in Ireland and yet I know that there are many people (far too many of them) in Ireland who think as Woodkern does and will never, ever, ever, acknowledge my Irishness. I could live in Ireland for 50 years and be the best Irish speaker in Ireland and people like Woodkern would still dismiss me as an alien. Fair play to Ballyphehane, his (her?) presence on the forum reassures me that at least some of the Irish-born-and-bred on IC are capable of seeing the bigger picture and have the cop-on to understand that identity can be a complex thing and is not as black and white as the likes of Woodkern think (i.e. purely based on geography).

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Gaelphoncán | Oct 23, 2011, 12:42 AM EDT

I've nothing against the so-called 'New Irish'(I've a few good friends who are 'New Irish') and acknowledge the Irishness of those who were born and bred in Ireland on geographical/upbringing grounds but I will not accept that they are more Irish than I am (or that they are Irish and I am not) merely because of an accident of birth. I know children (the children of friends of mine) who were born and brought up in Ireland but don't think of themselves as Irish and never will. Their parents are from Africa and Asia, they speak or at least hear (and understand) African and Asian languages at home, eat food at home that would be totally foreign to their ethnic Irish-born-and-bred neighbours, and are brought up with customs in a family culture that most of their neighbours would find alien. The Irish language and the history of Ireland mean nothing (apart from being school subjects) to the young Irish-born-and bred children I know whose parents immigrated from Nigeria or India – it's not THEIR history or language. However, the destruction of the Gaelic order after the Battle of Kinsale, the penal laws, 1798, and An Gorta Mór, are as much part of MY family's history as they are of yours, Woodkern, (regardless of where I was born or spent my childhood) and they're important to me in a way that they will never be to Irish-born-and bred child of African or Asian (or even Eastern European) parents. Ar aon nós, tá neart 'Iar-Bhriotanach' in Éirinn agus más iadsan na 'Fíor-Éireannaigh', a Cheithearn Choille, níl mise ag iarraidh a bheith i m'Éireannach ná baol air. Ná bac le hÉireannach nó Meiriceanach; is í an fhéiniúlacht is tabháchtaí dom fein m'fhéiniúlacht mar Ghael. Is sloinne Gaelach atá orm, is í fuil na nGael a ritheann trí mo chuislí, agus is í teanga na nGael a bhíonn go seasta i mo phluc; ag deireadh na dála, roimh lipéad féiniúlachta ar bith eile, is Gael mé.

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Gaelphoncán | Oct 23, 2011, 12:37 AM EDT

I'm curious as to how people on IC would label me but I've a fair idea already. Born and bred in America, I've dual nationality and 2 passports (Irish and American). I'm an Irish citizen (both of my parents had surnames of Gaelic origin), I've a PPS number, have voted in Irish elections and referenda, paid taxes in Ireland (on both sides of the border), I'm fluent in the 2 official languages of the Republic of Ireland agus is í an Ghaeilge an teanga a labhraím go laethúil (sa bhaile) le mo bhean agus lena muintir. I have lived most of the last 20 years (apart from a couple years spent on the continent doing Irish language research) in Ireland and yet I know that there are many people (far too many of them) in Ireland who think as Woodkern does and will never, ever, ever, acknowledge my Irishness. I could live in Ireland for 50 years and be the best Irish speaker in Ireland and people like Woodkern would still dismiss me as an alien. Fair play to Ballyphehane, his (her?) presence on the forum reassures me that at least some of the Irish-born-and-bred on IC are capable of seeing the bigger picture and have the cop-on to understand that identity can be a complex thing and is not as black and white as the likes of Woodkern think (i.e. purely based on geography).

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Gaelphoncán | Oct 22, 2011, 09:48 PM EDT

I'm curious as to how people on IC would define me but I've a good idea already. Born and bred in America, I've dual nationality and 2 passports (Irish and American). I'm an Irish citizen (both of my parents had surnames of Gaelic origin), I've a PPS number, have voted in Irish elections and referenda, paid taxes in Ireland (on both sides of the border), I'm fluent in the 2 official languages of the Republic of Ireland agus is í an Ghaeilge an teanga a labhraím go laethúil (sa bhaile) le mo bhean agus lena muintir. I have lived most of the last 20 years (apart from a couple years spent on the continent doing Irish language research) in Ireland and yet I know that there are many people (far too many of them) in Ireland who think as Woodkern does and will never, ever, ever, acknowledge my Irishness. I could live in Ireland for 50 years and be the best Irish speaker in Ireland and people like Woodkern would still dismiss me as an alien. Fair play to Ballyphehane, his (her?) presence on the forum reassures me that at least some of the Irish-born-and-bred on IC are capable of seeing the bigger picture and have the cop-on to understand that identity can be a complex thing and is not as black and white as the likes of Woodkern think (i.e. purely based on geography).

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MichaelMaedoc | Oct 22, 2011, 01:28 PM EDT

I love this question and agree that it is an identification with community that is defining. Even more so its a heritage that maintains that identity. I'm 3rd generation Irish American. My nationality is American, as my parents were not from Ireland. My mom's family had connection o family in Ireland but not so with my generation. However, we grew up in a thoroughly Irish American world in New Jersey, my parents from an Irish neighborhood, being of Irish heritage was a major part of our identity. More importantly, I trace my Catholic faith to my roots in Ireland and have always found the Irish saints as important models of the Christian life. I am Catholic first before consideration of nationality and thus identify with being Irish and American. The Irish are part of the cultural heritage and landscape of America.

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Rebelforce | Oct 21, 2011, 10:26 PM EDT

My theory is that our Irish ancestors were so determined to stay Irish throughout many centuries of oppression and persecution in Ireland that regardless of where you may be born, the will to identify as Irish is still strongly in your DNA. This sense of being Irish is something in your blood, heart and soul, whether you've ever been to Ireland or not.

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