45 Comments

• curtisjohnson | Oct 02, 2012, 08:47 PM EDT

  Except there is not much substantive difference between the US political parties in outcome - Obama was basically the third term of Bush - just more extreme spending (and Bush spent far more than Clinton).

• EphraimKibbey | Oct 02, 2012, 01:41 AM EDT

  By George, curtisjohnson, I think you've hit upon the nexus of our problem in America. That is why Romney and the GOP blame the 47%. Good job!

• curtisjohnson | Oct 01, 2012, 09:19 PM EDT

  when all other arguments to justify a criminal enterprise fail, blame the victims!

• seanomelb | Oct 01, 2012, 07:59 PM EDT

  In reference to 1916 Towngate claimed in a post some time ago that Patrick Pearse was a racist fascist. So much for "sacred cows".

• Towngate | Oct 01, 2012, 07:57 PM EDT

  jacersagain: My point exactly! Shame on all Irish survivors of the Famine whose ancestors watched it happen right in front of them! To describe The Famine and 1916 etc as 'Sacred Cows' in not to deny the events took place; quite the opposite - it is simply a comment on the common practice of blindly blaming everything on everyone else and denying any native collusion. We have to be honest with ourselves and accept that. We owe that to all those who died.

• curtisjohnson | Oct 01, 2012, 04:02 PM EDT

  @towntroll I wasn't answering your question but correcting your math to present value. "Remember the' massive net export' was of course executed by the 6 million Irish who were not affected by the Famine" No it was "executed" under the duress of the biggest military presence anywhere in the british empire at the time. Next towntroll will demonstrate how Auschwitz was a mere work factory.

• WoundedKnee | Oct 01, 2012, 03:30 PM EDT

  bunkerhill: There's no need to give me a history lesson about Bunker Hill. And it would be nice if you read my comments before replying to them. I never spoke about "pro slavery Republicans". That's just nonsense on your part. What I did point out was the fact that the Yankee Republicans who wept bitterly about the injustices done to Blacks in the South very often were what were called "genteel" anti-Catholic and anti-Irish bigots. There is even anti-Catholicism in the great Bible of the Abolitionists, Uncle Tom's Cabin.

• bunkerhill | Oct 01, 2012, 01:06 PM EDT

  Wounded Knee you might be surprised to know that Bunker is an old Yankee from New Hampshire, with a family arrival date of 1719. He chose the name bunkerhill because he has an ancestor, a 26 year old farmer from New Hampshire commemorated there, killed fighting the British (which means English in our language.) We are a husband and wife team. Bunker's family was also back in the war of 1812 when the English showed up again and burned Washington to the ground, and back again in the civil war to free the black slaves in the South. You certainly cannot paint the North Eastern part of the US as pro slavery Republicans. Massachusetts consistently sent Kennedys to Washington DC. And there is the huge French population from colonial days. However it is not your fault as it is a very popular thing to paint a people with one brush slanting which ever way you like. That is why history has to be explored.

• WoundedKnee | Oct 01, 2012, 01:05 PM EDT

  Finally, we've discovered an Irish Holocaust denier. Some people would deny him free speech, but I say let Townie say what he wants--every syllable serves to bring his IQ down a point. Anyone who claims as Townie does that the Irish Famine is a "myth" is a certifiable imbecile.

• jacersagain | Oct 01, 2012, 12:35 PM EDT

  Bejaysus Townie! – That comment of yours at 10.05am is way off the wall. Shame on you!

• Towngate | Oct 01, 2012, 10:05 AM EDT

  CJ: you can't still be claiming 10 divided by 1 million is 500! Read the question properly! Remember the' massive net export' was of course executed by the 6 million Irish who were not affected by the Famine. - ergo: Our squatting/thieving Irish surviving Ancestors stood by and watched their poor fellow-Irish leave or starve! Its a hard bullet to bite - but it simply must be true! That is why the Famine is just another Sacred Cow nurtured by popular myth - because otherwise we would have to confront our internecine Irish nature,shame and Guilt.

• curtisjohnson | Sep 30, 2012, 10:51 PM EDT

  @towntroll no moron - $10 then translates roughly into $500 now. Re the others, most of them were impoverished and emigrating. The English were shamed into the minimal aide they provided, which was grossly inferior to the massive resources they spent insuring a massive net export of food from the country. I'm sure your squatting/thieving ancestors were doing fine retaining the fruits of their crimes based on the massive british military presence at the time, however. What is this "racism" silliness.

• EphraimKibbey | Sep 30, 2012, 09:10 PM EDT

  Abe was for binding up the wounds of the nation. If Booth's bullit had not silenced him, the reconstruction of the South might have been less corrupt. It was his talks with Grant and the other Union Generals late in the war that lead them to offer the surrender terms that were signed and which got them in trouble with many of the revenge seeking Unionists. The modern Republican and Democratic Parties are not the parties they were in Lincoln's time. Constituencies and platforms have devided and switched. The Confedercy (Democrats) split with Northerners (Republicans) over Southern States' Rights and "the property they gained by honest toil" (ie. their slaves.) (Google "Bonnie Blue Flag") Now which party do you associate with States Rights and property/wealth? When one party seizes the high ground, it forces the other to fight from the lowlands. (Google "Dixiecrats") Glad to know that Abe put his money where his mouth was but I am not surprised that he would walk the talk.

• seanomelb | Sep 30, 2012, 07:47 PM EDT

  Who cares who he slept with !!he was a visionary and his vis of the republican party has been blighted when the Dixiecrats took over party many years ago.

• millman64 | Sep 30, 2012, 06:37 PM EDT

  And now they're saying that honest Abe liked to lay in bed with men. Fer feck sake, can't we all just get the feck along?

• krisdaly | Sep 30, 2012, 01:58 PM EDT

  Yes,Lincoln was the head of a constitutional republic, and felt great compassion for ANY group of people that were suffering. Funny how the Black people of America forget that it was a White Republican that gave them their freedom. The Democrats were the slave masters of the Confederacy. Also the first gun-control laws were passed in the Southern states to keep freed slaves from owning a firearm.

• Towngate | Sep 30, 2012, 07:32 AM EDT

  curtisjohnson: you are faring no better on this 'thread' than the German one! Are you seriously stating that $10 divided by a million is $500! You can't read or you are bonkers! .... and your bigotry and racism is allowing you to conveniently forget the ship-loads of grain the 'English' BOUGHT from America to try and relieve the famine, and the haunting question of what the other six million well-fed Irish were doing whilst a million of their countrymen starved! That is Ireland's real shame!

• WoundedKnee | Sep 30, 2012, 03:28 AM EDT

  bunkerhill: "Is it a surprise to anyone that President Abraham Lincoln, who was so disturbed by the slavery perpetrated on innocent, Black Africans should not be disturbed by injustice in Ireland". Sorry, Bunkerhill, but that's nonsense. It was very common for Wasps in the Northeast to combine tears about injustices done to blacks in the South with the most vehement anti-Catholicism and anti-Irishism. I am surprised you are unaware of that Yankee tradition, so strong in places like Mass, PA and NY. The great John Mitchel, the Irish patriot who was a prominent defender of the CSA and whose son was killed in action at Gettysburg, often pointed out this hypocrisy. As to Lincoln, I don't post much about things I don't feel expert on, and I don't claim to be an expert on Lincoln, except to know that I don't like him. But Down South there is a traditional belief that Lincoln was anti-Catholic, as countless northern Protestants were (including the nut John Brown). Remnants of the old Know Nothings were among those who came together to form the Republican Party. Certainly, there was an atmosphere of anti-Catholic hysteria surrounding the show trials which followed the Lincoln assassination, and victims of the attendant judicial murders included Catholics such as Mary Surratt.

• curtisjohnson | Sep 30, 2012, 12:44 AM EDT

  $500 in today's dollars, towntroll. For all we know the british terror state capped his contribution. Anyway, his behavior is in contrast to your people who continued to steal from Ireland even during the famine - a product of that petty, dishonest mercantile character that has been so well observed.

• Towngate | Sep 29, 2012, 04:17 PM EDT

  Big of him .... hmmmm, let me see.......$10 devided by a million .... how much is that each?

• Seanmor | Sep 29, 2012, 03:56 PM EDT

  Very few Irish people seem to know that the Choctaw tribe had serveral generations of chiefs and sub-chiefs whose surnames was McCurtain. Some historians believe that these Choctaw leaders had an ancestor from Cork named Dan McCurtain. If this claim be true, then many Choctaws -also Chickasaws - are blood brothers of the MacCurtains and Curtins of Ireland.

• bunkerhill | Sep 29, 2012, 12:47 PM EDT

  Congratulations to Keneally and we will be loking forward to her book. Finally true histories are being revealed. Is it a surprise to anyone that President Abraham Lincoln, who was so disturbed by the slavery perpetrated on innocent, Black Africans should not be disturbed by injustice in Ireland. Someone on another post accused us of being anti royal. Yes you are right. We are Americans and we did have that revolution you know. A new fact has come to light in a recent American PBS presentation, and I believe you can get a copy. We have heard so much about the beloved "queen Victoria," and her great empire. How many of you know that an Englishman tried to assinate her but missed and killed an innocent servant. Also this presentation gave great insight into Anglo's great inventions. Victoria had a huge composium inviting all the inventors in the world to their specially built "Glass Palace" to present their ideas. One thing you have to say about royals, they are clever.

• cillowen | Sep 29, 2012, 11:39 AM EDT

  An associated so devoutly to be wished for - a troika partnership of evil that'll be with us for a long time. Most Excellent Order of the British Empire - what it represents here's but a smidgin of what Saxon's gravitas has provided ..... The British trade in African slaves began with Sir John Hawkins's illegal shipment of slaves to the Spanish West Indies in 1562. In its heyday in the latter half of the eighteenth century, Britain accounted for half of all the slaves transported across the Atlantic Ocean. The bulk of the trade was to the West Indies, Jamaica in particular, amounting to more than 1.6 million people in total. Hawkins is considered to be the pioneer of the British slave trade, because he was the first to run the Triangular trade, making a profit at every stop. Sick touch, is Hawkins was knighting shortly after his second successful African venture and his coat of arms depicted the head of an African woman with a chain around her neck.

• jacersagain | Sep 29, 2012, 07:59 AM EDT

  I’ve mentioned this before under IC articles on An Gorta Mór but worth mentioning again in context of posts on Turkish aid during the Famine. The Turkish aid that sailed into Drogheda port is well remembered today in two aspects: (i) there’s a social club called the Star & Crescent in Drogheda supposedly named in recognition of that Turkish aid and (ii) the colours of the Drogheda United soccer club are blue & light maroon, the same as the Turkish football club Trabzonspor and both clubs jerseys include the star & crescent symbol (much more modern designed) as crests, keeping alive the memory of Abdülmecid’s contribution. It is also known that Nth American Indian tribes made contributions but this is the first I heard about Abe Lincoln's help.

• Gavin | Sep 29, 2012, 06:26 AM EDT

  @hus.djemal, His name was Abdülmecid I, there is an interesting piece on wikipedia about it on wiki, search for Great Famine and look under aid from the Ottoman Empire, worth a look :-)

• cillowen | Sep 28, 2012, 08:15 PM EDT

  his first teacher being RC Irish, one, who in his will wanted his slaves to be free surely inspired Abe. The shielding of the fact that young Lincoln being taught by a Catholic was enough to render this fine gentleman unsuitable for office. Such were those times.

• seanomelb | Sep 28, 2012, 07:08 PM EDT

  "Maggie go poo in the corner" get some commonsense. Guinnessgrrl is correct in her comments and they (the Choctaw)were not the only native American tribe to contribute to famine relief.

• Maggie47 | Sep 28, 2012, 06:20 PM EDT

  Guinness, you beleive everything you read on the internet? I think you another guinness.

• runfar | Sep 28, 2012, 06:15 PM EDT

  History is great in showing how some tried to help the Irish....now it is up to the present day Irish to help the unborn.....no abortion in Ireland, we don't kill our babies, let us work to outlaw abortion in America too.

• Ms.Gail | Sep 28, 2012, 05:48 PM EDT

  Thank you GuinnessGrrl for the info about the Choctaw people, my late, 1st generation, mother told us their story from the time we were small children and she told us to respect all the Native Americans (and 1st Nations of Canada)because they understood hardship and oppression.

• Seanmor | Sep 28, 2012, 03:35 PM EDT

  Whenever donations for Irish Famnine relief are mentioned, the Generousity of the CHOCTAW trive should be included. Those kind, compassionate Native Americans donated $170. from their meager assets to the starving Irish in 1948. In addition to recognizing President Lincoln's huge donation, we should also remember his support of majority rue and that Lincolnian Democracy means that the wishes of a country's national majority always takes precedence over a majority in any geogriphal or political subdivision of that country. The land to which Lincoln made a generous contribution is still denied the type of democracy which bears his name.

• curtisjohnson | Sep 28, 2012, 03:22 PM EDT

  "I heard that Turkish Sultan Abdul Hamid, was going to send over 10,000 silvers to Ireland but queen victoria didn't allow it. He sent 1000 silvers and a ship load of food but was blocked by the English, so the ships succeeded to sail to port of Drogheda" Correct in principle but it wasn't Queen Victoria personally who wouldn't allow it but the petty commercial oligarchs who ran (and still run) the british terror state. I am surprised the terror state allowed as much through as they did (I suspect they were shamed into it by global embarrassment - they're normally able to cover up their atrocities).

• Nicomax | Sep 28, 2012, 12:40 PM EDT

  Americans are free to donate to charities as they chose, and are given a tax break for their efforts. But a society can not simply depend on such donations to correct all social needs, and that is why our elected officials are required by Article I, Section 8, paragraph 1 to "provide for the general Welfare".

• hus.djemal | Sep 28, 2012, 12:27 PM EDT

  I heard that Turkish Sultan Abdul Hamid, was going to send over 10,000 silvers to Ireland but queen victoria didn't allow it. He sent 1000 silvers and a ship load of food but was blocked by the English, so the ships succeeded to sail to port of Drogheda

• GuinnessGrrl | Sep 28, 2012, 12:16 PM EDT

  Maggie47, there's this new thing called "Google" that can help you with that, but since that seems to be beyond your scope to use, here is a quote that took me only 5 seconds to find: "In 1847, midway through the Great Irish Famine (1845–1849), a group of Native American Choctaws collected $710 (although many articles say the original amount was $170 after a misprint in Angie Debo's The Rise and Fall of the Choctaw Republic) and sent it to help starving Irish men, women and children. "It had been just 16 years since the Choctaw people had experienced the Trail of Tears, and they had faced starvation... It was an amazing gesture." according to Judy Allen, editor of the Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma's newspaper, Bishinik, based at the Oklahoma Choctaw tribal headquarters in Durant, Oklahoma. To mark the 150th anniversary, eight Irish people retraced the Trail of Tears, and the donation was publicly commemorated by President Mary Robinson."

• msymsed | Sep 28, 2012, 12:04 PM EDT

  I love how people make blanket statements. And if you would actually LOOK, you would see that Mitt Romney has given more (both literally and by percentage) than Obama and Biden combined. And the democrats are the "giving" party? The difference is that democrats would rather have people subjugated by the government rather than giving to help them learn to stand on their OWN feet.

• pato343 | Sep 28, 2012, 11:58 AM EDT

  I am not sure but someone told me that Lincoln had no use for the Irish in this country. I am sure he was a statesman and did so much for this country but I think more research has to be done to make sure about his relationships with the Irish.

• Maggie47 | Sep 28, 2012, 11:53 AM EDT

  How much money did the American Indian send to Ireland?

• Proud Canadian2 | Sep 28, 2012, 11:47 AM EDT

  They should add generous Abe to his honest Abe, rhumter67 you hit the nail right on the head. The Republican Party today is so far from that of Lincolin and the other Presidents time it isn't funny. Up until Reagan(Ray-Gun)the church hadn't gotten involved and God wasn't telling these moron's what to do. Abe Lincoln was a great President and they got rid of him as they did with JFK. Why is it that the great Presidents die and the Moron Presidents live to wreck the world? Just asking.

• Maggie47 | Sep 28, 2012, 11:42 AM EDT

  "Welcome to the south now go home" Arthur Cola, "Fever" a must read. will be on the shelves in the spring.

• rhunter67 | Sep 28, 2012, 11:32 AM EDT

  Hey Handsome, the Republican party of Lincoln bares little resemblene to the existing party. All the greatest Republian presidents like Lincoln, TR, Ike and even Reagan are too moderate for your party's current tastes. I also sense that Wounded Knee is a bitter Southerner who can get over the war. Only Southerners aren't fans of Lincoln.

• WoundedKnee | Sep 28, 2012, 11:05 AM EDT

  I am no fan of Lincoln, but this is certainly interesting. I hope the Professor works on documenting the Famine donations made in subsequently CSA cities such as Savannah and Charleston.

• handsome68 | Sep 28, 2012, 10:28 AM EDT

  Mr. Lincoln's famous black friend, Frederick Douglass, actually visited Ireland in 1845. Around the time of Lincoln's issuance of the Emancipation Proclamation, I understand that Douglass visited Lincoln. And too, Lincoln was the first official President of the Republican Party, so youse liberal omadhauns should stop perpetrating the lie that all Republicans are bad human beings, and such like.

• Arthur Cola | Sep 28, 2012, 10:02 AM EDT

  This is indeed an interesting story. Particularly since I am currently in research phase for my new hisotrical fiction novel which inpart focuses on the Irish Famine and a family who flees it to America where they encounter President Lincoln.

• jamieLM | Sep 28, 2012, 09:49 AM EDT

  Lincoln certainly knew all about being poor and he probably was well acquainted with what it was like to be hungry, too.