Catholic Church has lost all credibility, making me a pagan in Ireland

St. Matthew:"Thou art Peter;and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." These are the words of Jesus and Jesus words will always have credibility! If Spain wants to attack and belittle the Catholic Church, let him study the true life story of St. Padre Pio and then explain his miracles and life from the point of his supposedly enlightened thinking.

And yes.......the institutional church has lost all credibility in the eyes of everyone; even Pagans!!

And Rebelforce, does the parable of the prodigal son ring a bell with you by any chance?

Rebelforce.If you truly mean all you have said in your last post, I wonder do you actually realise just how far from God you really are?

That's typical of John Spain. He's one of those selfish, annoying people who suddenly come out of the woodwork and turn up at Church on Christmas because.....well, it's "the place to be". Meanwhile, as his pompous, fat tush is taking up precious pew space, a regular parishioner is probably left standing at the back of the church because they can't get a seat. Nice. Do everybody a favor John, if you don't believe----stay home and pay homage to your "sun god" or "earth mother" or whatever it is you pagans worship. Stay out of the Catholic church. They may say they want you back, but remember, they HAVE to say stuff like that. Meanwhile, I'm willing to bet good money the Catholic church in Ireland will still be around long after you've gasped your last breath.

John Spain’s article is deliberately seasonal – I trust he reads the posts I made below. I can understand his dismissive attitude about Mass and religion etc because I went through a phase of that. I would ask John, when he brings his children to (for him) a seasonal Christmas Mass, to recognise the importance of it to the Catholics beside him in the church and respect it so. But here’s a really good bit of news for John and others like him – a saintly nun of Saxony in Middle Ages, St.Mechtilde (Matilda, modern day), was blessed by Jesus Christ with revelations, one of which says “Receive it as a most certain truth, that if anyone hears Mass devoutly and fervently, I will send... for consolation and defence at the hour of death, as many of the glorious spirits who stand around My throne as have heard Masses with devotion”. So maybe, just maybe, John and his family will have some fervent devotion at Mass on Christmas Day, if even only for that one Mass on that special day.

(Cont’d) Our main ceremony is the Holy Mass through which we - 1. Acknowledge God and His Greatness; 2. Before the altar of God and in front of our fellow-Mass attendants, confess aloud that we have sinned, ask forgiveness of God and receive general absolution through the prayer and blessing of an anointed priest; 3. Glorify God aloud; 4. Listen to readings from both the Old and New Testaments – (the Word of God): 4. Profess aloud what we believe as Christians in God and in a catholic or universal church; 5. Offer bread & wine to God and ask Him to accept them as our sacrifice as Christ did at the Last Supper in atonement for our sins; 6. Pray for the living people in the world; 7. Bow our heads in silent respect of a miracle happening before as the priest asks God on our behalf to consecrate the bread and wine to be transubstantiated into the Body and Blood of Christ; 8. Pray for the deceased people of the world; 9. Pray aloud together as a Christian community as our Lord taught us to in The Lord’s Prayer; 10. Commune with God in Holy Communion by receiving into our mortal bodies the eternally living Body and Blood of Christ; 10. Pray for peace for ourselves, our families and others in the whole world. 11. Receive the Blessing of God through the prayers of the priest. NOT ONE OF THESE parts of the Mass is founded in pagan rituals. Our faith and practice of it is based solely in, and through Jesus Christ, not pagan rituals.

How could Portia be so naive as to declare all RC ceremonies to be based on pagan rituals? The RC’s main ceremonies are based around seven Sacraments instituted by Jesus Christ at various stages during His life on earth - 1. Baptism - as He was baptised by John in the River Jordan; 2. Confession - as He forgave the repentant thief alongside Him on the Cross; 3. Holy Communion – as he asked us to ‘Eat (His) Flesh and drink (His) Blood in memory of Him at the Last Supper; 4. Marriage – as He blessed the marriage at Capernaum with his first-known Miracle of changing water into wine; 5. Sacrament of Sick or Dying people – as He blessed and cured people numerous times in His life or raised them from the dead (e.g. Lazarus); 6. Confirmation – whereby He anointed his followers and Apostles with confirmation of their belief in Him through the wisdom of the Holy Spirit; 7. Holy Orders (Priesthood) – whereby he appointed Peter as His first leader (Pope) of his Church and his Apostles as priests to go spread His message to Love God and Love one’s Neighbour to all mankind. NOT ONE OF THESE is based on pagan rituals. (More...)

Please Portia, you’re a nice person – and so does John Spain seem to be – but please don’t spread misunderstandings. Please read my posts following in reply to yours which hopefully set out exactly what we Catholics do and believe in through our ceremonies, all of which are dedicated to acknowledging Christ as our Saviour and God as the Supreme Being, none of which is based on pagan ritual. No matter what you or others say, the gift of faith is one neither you nor anybody else can take away from me and a billion others with rubbishing comments. I invite you instead to join us in our rewarding belief, or rediscover that belief if you’ve discarded it. My prayer is - May the Peace and Joy of Christ be with you and everyone on IrishCentral over the festive period and, especially, forever.

Amazing Grace Welcome home

The Roman Catholic ceremonies are all based on pagan rituals. Their churches built on ancient Pagan ritual sites- where there were altars- al Tara. etc. The Roman church forced the native Ayrish to come under the rule of Rome by using all kinds of torture, murder, creating fear, guilt tripping, lying about a better world in the hereafter, lying about suffering being good for the soul- so the priests etc could get away with abusing children and adults alike. It was a great scam while it lasted- just like any other religious cult- its days are over.

In fairness, John, you're not a pagan in Ireland; there are lots of pagans in Ireland, they practice various forms of religion that have been described under the pagan moniker deliberately and self-consciously for the past several decades. Nearly all of these types of religion are sex-positive, and none would have stood for the type of abuse, nor its concealment, which the Catholic Church in Ireland stood for and abetted on an institutional basis. What you are is a non-practicing Christian, or a skeptic or vocal critic. I don't know that I'd say you're an atheist or agnostic, as those terms are not synonymous with skepticism, and they are most certainly NOT synonymous with paganism or being pagan. However, given that you did get your education in religious matters from Catholics in Ireland, it's no surprise that you make this (all too common) mistake.

John, At Christmastime, or any other time it is not about ceremony, nor is it about all the foolish and sinful people in the churches. It is about God connecting with man by sending His son to atone for our great separation. On the last day it will not matter what group you affiliated with, or rejected. Don't let the flawed messengers affect the message of Christ's love and sacrifice. He came to live that perfect life that we cannot live, and He lives to bring us to Himself.....

The pagan is hedging his bets. I am a Catholic; but not practicing on a regular basis. The Episcopal Church serves us well; but I still miss the Roman Catholic ritual; and I am no longer that familiar with the ceremony. An Irish friend from Chicago summed it up for me..."once a Roman Catholic, always a Roman Catholic". He's right.