37 Comments

• IrelandNorth | Apr 12, 2012, 06:22 AM EDT

  The Irish Times is an incurable petit-bourgeois quality broadsheet written by and for a largely southern business Protestant ascendency, and their cafeteria Catholic political groupies in Government. Their conspicuous fawning last year for the visiting British monarch was in stark contrast to their virtual journalistic lynching later in the year of Ulster/Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister (DFM) Presidential candidate, a shamefully embarrasing episode which estranged many of us who had been reading it for longer than we care to admit. Although admittedly good on news ordinary, they invariably exhibit a manifest objectivity deficit in matters of politics proper and religion regular. As a Roman Catholic priest of my acquaintence once said: "If you want real spirituality, go to a monastery. We're just the Civil Service of the Church." I wonder do Papa Benny and the Cardinals realise that in monasticising Flannery, they may be only exacerbating his commendable radicalism. All orthodoxies suck. Become a Gnostic.

• GregShox | Apr 12, 2012, 05:12 AM EDT

  Irishpjk -- The work of satin, you say? So that's why they call them men of cloth!

• KatieMurphy | Apr 12, 2012, 02:34 AM EDT

  irishpjk |said 2012, 04:01 PM EDT There is no such thing as half catholic, There was also no such thing as half nazi in germany, or half commie under Stalin etc.........those paranoid psychotics didnt hesitate to kill anyone who wasnt totally in accord with their wishes also.................Thank you for helping to explain what a top down tyranny the vatican has becum. As it moves ever extremist. The second holy Inquisition is all but here..............Madness prevails in the Church of Jesus. Wonder what HE is going to do to the hierarchy and the Pope...........Maybe a trap door to hell in front of the pearly gates

• KatieMurphy | Apr 12, 2012, 02:28 AM EDT

  I wonder how many known pedo priests were given such a treatment like this. Actually their "repentance" treatment was to be sent to a new location where unknown, they continued their crimes.................................. While keeping the collection plate full. All should join in making the 3rd largest church in America the 1st or second largest - the church of EX CATHOLICS......................... Thank God that the church cannot do what CDF did in the past - the rack, dungeons and burnings at the stake........................... Which btw also happened to good priests during the inquisition. they, like Jews etc, were treated like heretics / apostates - similar to the Islam of today.

• FromPhoenix | Apr 12, 2012, 01:43 AM EDT

  For many years I was very troubled by the direction that the Catholic Church was headed for. It was very difficult but I finally decided to leave the Church. At first I felt like a castaway from my family and all my relatives and Catholic friends. So much of my time was spent defending my decision. Years later, I am at peace and rarely speak out against the Church. It is very frustrating when you are a member of something that doesn't meet your expectations.

• seanomelb | Apr 11, 2012, 07:01 PM EDT

  Maybe the CDF would like to water board Flannery or burn him at the stake as they use to do before they changed their name from "The inquisition" to "CDF".They want him to go into "retreat" and read the CDF's take on the Catholic religion.The Chinese under Mao did the same except his bible was the "little red book".Catechisms and little red books are one and the same thing mind control documents.

• joan1954 | Apr 11, 2012, 06:56 PM EDT

  Even here in San Antonio we have have women Pastoral Associates, DRE's, Lectors even involved in Parish Councils and extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion like in so many areas of this country. Ireland is far behind in all of that and needs to catch up with the rest of the English Speaking world.

• SingleDonald | Apr 11, 2012, 06:54 PM EDT

  During the Papacy of Pope John Paul II, I heard somewhere that there will be 2 more popes, after him. If that is true, there is now one more to come, before the Catholic Church undergoes some radical transformation. Can anybody please tell me the source of this prediction? Irishpjk, Do you really believe that someone who can not accept everything the Church teaches, such as Matthew 5:28, and the guilt ridden teachings of St. Augustine, has no chance for salvation?? If so, you take after the fanatical fundamentalists, who tolerate no deviation, from the way they interpret the Bible.

• VonLiebenitz | Apr 11, 2012, 06:14 PM EDT

  Time for the priests to revolt and dispose the current pope who is nothing more than a reactionary moron.

• VonLiebenitz | Apr 11, 2012, 06:14 PM EDT

  Time for the priests to revolt of dispose the current pope who is nothing more than a reactionary moron.

• SeamusMartin | Apr 11, 2012, 05:35 PM EDT

  Fight priests fight! Don't cower like sheep amongst the wolf. Do your reflecting at night when sleeping, but during daylight rebel against the yoke of Machiavellian papistry. Free your Church, free your country, free the world from that old beady eyed Christian pretender. God has chosen you for the Catholic Reformation. The time is now! Up the Father Flannery!

• Greendays | Apr 11, 2012, 05:35 PM EDT

  Like my dear Aunt Rose use to say:"Jesus, Mary and Joseph!"

• DannyBoyG | Apr 11, 2012, 05:28 PM EDT

  What a great idea Caoimhin1937!!! Because most of us who were raised "Catholic" realize what a pool of homophobia and pervertedness exist at the door of Rome. Another church is an excellent idea. Most people will take it much more seriously than they do the german pedo-protector. His words are taken so seriously by so much of the world now! LOL!! What did he say on Easter??? Besides trying to stay awake???? And before you give me your words about the church...and if you don't like it...go somewhere else. I try to picture what you might. The pope, cardinals, bishops and priests being welcomed at the gates of heaven with the words..."well done good and faithful servants...protecting the molesters and letting the abused suffer even more!!" Do you even know Caoimhin1937 how messed up your thought process is??? Please pray hard to God. You and your band of merry molesters will need it big time!!!!

• Collette2 | Apr 11, 2012, 05:10 PM EDT

  Don't be too concerned about it. He has a roof over his head, clothes on his back, bread on his plate (if not fasting which is part of religious life) and time out for prayer and reflection. Oh yes, and access to Canon Law stuctured towards clergy. It's more than most of have today on all accounts.

• irishpjk | Apr 11, 2012, 04:01 PM EDT

  There is no such thing as half catholic, you are or you are not. To all of you who are sickened by the catholic faith why not find one you like and join there. Or could it be deep down you know the true faith is found in the Catholic Church and you are afraid of going to hell. If that is the case then you need to get you head straight and support the true faith. If you were successful in changing it then you would bring the rest of us to hell with you, sounds like satin at work. By the way that priest is not a rebel he is a traitor, I hope prayer and a retreat can cure him but I do not hold out much hope for him.

• SingleDonald | Apr 11, 2012, 02:09 PM EDT

  I like the sentiments of Jane Thomas. Caoimhin1937's contentment with being in the Polish National Church is fine. I never knew of this Church, as I never knew of PhlutiePhan's news of women being trained as pastors, and their new roles in St. Louis parishes. I hope more people support Father Tony Flannery. As Jane Thomas says, I could never say one thing in public, which I didn't believe! That I could advise people otherwise in private would be the right thing to do, but what about the majority who heard my public comments? I would feel like a hypocrite!

• JohnE67 | Apr 11, 2012, 01:26 PM EDT

  I recall walking into the Vatican art museum, and being sickened by what I saw there. Treasures and artifacts of indigenous peoples around the world, stolen from them at sword and spear point, by the legions of the Caholic Church. Now I am sickened again by the actions of the Church. Thank God I am only half Catholic! Stay strong Father Flannery, and keep calling the ugly baby ugly!

• pilib04 | Apr 11, 2012, 12:55 PM EDT

  I can't get over how disgusted I am with my Church. Levada is an absolute PIG!!! He was responsible not just for hiding rapist priests, but for hiding rapist-protecting cardinals! Levada had a priest silenced and sent away for reporting the actions of Rapist-Priest in the San Francisco area. I refer to the case of Father John Conley who walked in on one of these rapes! rev Aylward was not turned over to the authorities, but Father Conley was disciplined for reporting the rape to the bishop (LEVADA). That is just one case.

• pilib04 | Apr 11, 2012, 12:48 PM EDT

  What an outrage that "cardinal" Levada, the protector of pedophile priests is lecturing the Redemptorists about anything. Levada should be sent back to the United States and put on trial. Levada (while bishop of Portland, Oregon & San Francisco California) is one of the most important Vatican operatives involved in protecting the child rapists priests and bishops!!! What an absolute disgrace.

• Ms.Gail | Apr 11, 2012, 12:14 PM EDT

  Based on fact or not I imagin poor Fr Flannery being subject to limited food and water and undergoing lecturing 24/7 until he agrees with whatever he is told. The Catholic Church in Ireland has (fraudently) hidden its assets and declared itself unable to pay the financial penalties it owes to the abused. The Irish government could break the trusts as they were constructed to defraud. The government could take the property in default and offer it via rental to the Church, putting members of the public on boards to keep an eye on schools and make the most profitable use of prior church properties. The churches could stay churches, but the churches would have to depend on the support of their congregation to remain able to pay the rent. If congregants want to support an Irish Catholic parish, they could do so. If you find fault with this plan, please formulate solutions. To bring up something recently past, "What would Jesus do?"

• Nicoletta | Apr 11, 2012, 11:49 AM EDT

  Since Vatican II, so many clergy have been assimilated into the modern culture. Instead of being a beacon on a hill, sadly, they have become part of the darkness. There even seems to be a many of them who are 'gay.' They will never get what they demand from the Pope and should leave for other denominations. How can they in all conscience, claim to be Catholics?

• Nicomax | Apr 11, 2012, 11:34 AM EDT

  Once again, please explain the difference between the Vatican and China, North Korea and Saudi Arabia.

• jclarkin | Apr 11, 2012, 11:31 AM EDT

  I hope that Father Flannery, during his period of mandated "reflection" reads a lot of Rev. James Martin, S.J.'s stuff, like "The Jesuit Guide to(Almost) Everything" or, more to the point, his HuffPost Blog of April 3rd entitled "The Church's Easter: What Needs to Die in the Catholic Church so That it May Live." Father Flannery is not alone in either his views or in his love for the Church that propels those views. The "people of God" stand with Father Flannery.

• PhlutiePhan | Apr 11, 2012, 11:13 AM EDT

  "Contraception" needs to be more closely defined. It has come to mean "unlimited abortion" in the context of the "contraception mandate". You just cannot have a Catholic priest with a lot of influence going around espousing such extreme beliefs. In the United States, deacons will be ordained. Women are already being trained to be pastors through Jesuit universities. Even now, they are being hired as directors of religion and pastoral associates in St. Louis on a parish level. This is the same St. Louis from where AB (now Cardinal) Burke was "driven out of town". Not so long ago, there was a Redemptorist priest on the police board who was attempting to seduce male police officers in exchange for political considerations. Fr. Flannery may be a "long necked weed" in Ireland but in the good ole U.S. he would be just one of the boys.

• mayoman | Apr 11, 2012, 10:55 AM EDT

  Now isn't that rich! The Vatican has ordered Father Flannery to "reflect". Isn't that precisely what he was doing? Reflecting and discussing issues pertinent to the Catholic Church?

• fiddlinvet | Apr 11, 2012, 10:53 AM EDT

  Apart from the fact that Redemptorists are monks and missionaries, being recalled to the monastery is nothing out of the order. (pun not intended...) However, it is becoming more and more obvious that the Catholic church is becoming obsolete.

• mollymguire | Apr 11, 2012, 10:27 AM EDT

  Hit 'em in the pocketbook. Do NOT donate on Sunday. Turn in an empty envelope. Write a letter. Only when the donations dwindle, does the church respond. When the millionaire donations stop, the church takes notice, but the small donations are important to them too.

• Caoimhin1937 | Apr 11, 2012, 10:25 AM EDT

  What is the big deal about Father Flannery having to obey Rome. When he became a priest he took a vow to obey the rulings of the Catholic Church vis a vis Rome. So if he does not like what he has to do, he should quit the Roman Catholic Church and form his own Church. Probably a suggestion would be Fine Gael Catholic Church with Kenny as the Pope. I know that's what happened in Poland. They have two Catholic Church: the Latin Catholic Church controlled by Rome and the Polish National Church controlled by the boys in Warsaw. They have churches in Chicago, I know. What is good about the Polish National Church, they do not have confession as we know it. They have general absolution at every mass. My wife divorced me and I got married again. So according to the Roman Catholic Church I am ex-communicated and I can't receive the sacriments. But that is okay with me. They make the rules so you have to abide by them. If you don't, just quit. I don't see what all the commotion is all about. We in Ireland might like to try something on the style of the Polish National Church.

• jane thomas | Apr 11, 2012, 10:13 AM EDT

  My only question as an ex-Catholic is why there aren't more priests openly supporting Fr. Flannery? Honestly, my heart goes out to all those priests who earnestly don't agree with the Vatican on these issues. These poor men (no women yet, unfortunately) have to become hypocrites, saying one thing openly and yet advising their flock individually to ignore what they say. It's ludicrous. If there were enough who had the courage of this priest to stand up and make some real noise to get the Vatican to listen, it would likely result in a more viable Catholic church.

• hermitTalker | Apr 11, 2012, 10:12 AM EDT

  Not really fair to lump his dissent from dogma, irreformable, from his views on optional celibacy and the handling of the abuse in a generic criticism of the CDF and HH BXV1. No organisation on earth tolerates dissent on a key tenet of its existence, in this care a definitive papal statement on the 2100 year old ban on women priests. The other topics are negotiable and many missionary bishops have advocated for married clergy in extremely rural areas where the people do not need a priest with a degree from Rome or Maynooth to be their shepherd and now have Mass only once a month or once a year.

• CitizenWhy | Apr 11, 2012, 10:01 AM EDT

  As archbishop of San Francisco and Portland, Ore. Levada sheltered sex abuse perpetrators (leading to civil lawsuits and very negative headlines). Levada stands was the only American Bishop successfully sued by a whistle-blowing priest, Jon Conley, who reported another priest to the police for making sexual advances on a teenage boy. Father Conley received a six-figure settlement from the archdiocese.

• rugbyplayer | Apr 11, 2012, 09:55 AM EDT

  Cardinal Levada was a well-known clerical skank in the USA, more doctrinaire than Benedict XVI. Imperious commands to Flannery from Levada "get you to a monastery" only proves the Vatican's arcane, pompous and totalitarian methods in dealing with any kind of dissent or dialogue from its clerical members. The current Pope and his Roman Curia are isolating themselves from the rest of the world.

• rugbyplayer | Apr 11, 2012, 09:26 AM EDT

  all good little boys now- do as you are told.

• rugbyplayer | Apr 11, 2012, 09:25 AM EDT

  Senior Vaticanologist Gerry O’Connell, Fr Flannery was summonsed to Rome in March when he met with Fr Michael Brehl, the Canadian Superior General of the Redemptorists. According to the report, Fr Brehl had earlier been summoned to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF) by the prefect, US Cardinal William Levada. WOW, that is a lot of hierarchy.lol

• rugbyplayer | Apr 11, 2012, 09:23 AM EDT

  The Irish Times reports that the Redemptorist priest, already silenced by religious leaders in Rome, has been told to return with thinking in line with church thinking" Same as we were told as children then in this cult. Obey and follow but do not think for yourselves. Typical cult brainwashing. Black sheeple who think for themselves get punished like Hypathia of long ago,

• hollabackgurl | Apr 11, 2012, 09:21 AM EDT

  What could be more Catholic than a cover up. Independent thought has never been big with this crowd.

• eiriamach | Apr 11, 2012, 07:35 AM EDT

  Of course censorship and removal are a symptom of fear, as Fr. McVerry says. Centralization of decision-making power by the Vatican is not moral leadership, and most people know the difference. Of course the Vatican is frightened. Has the International Criminal Court at the Hague dismissed charges of 'crimes against humanity' brought against the Vatican? No. Do criminal trials continue in Philadelphia, with priests and bishops indicted or subpoenaed? Yes. Does the Irish public largely support the Taoiseach's intention to hold Church officials responsible under Irish law for abuse and coverup? Yes. Does loss of membership in the Church continue at a rapid pace in Europe and in the USA, where "Ex-Catholic" is now the third-largest religious category? The Church is besieged with the financial, legal, and public-relations fall-out from the sexual abuse scandal, which it has ill managed. Its indifference to public perception of its unholiness amidst the continuing scandal deepens the problem. Of course it's tempting at such times to demand absolute obedience from priests. It's human impulse to close ranks in the face of severe criticism, but it's also a mistake, one that alienates more people, both within the Church and outside, through world-wide media reports. (Americans despise censors!) And it's just foolish to think that censorship will stifle discussion of the celibacy discipline or of the Church's treatment of women.