The Vatican was stunned by the Irish government decision to close down their Embassy to the Holy See and oversee future diplomatic relations from Dublin.
Reuters reports that the Irish informed the Vatican only hours before the decision was made public and relations between the two are at an all time low.
Top Vatican officials up to and including the pope were said to be “deeply irritated” by the Irish move which the government said was due to cost efficiencies.
However, top diplomats from other embassies in Rome believe that without the church sex abuse scandals the embassy would never have been closed.
"This is really bad for the Vatican because Ireland is the first big Catholic country to do this and because of what Catholicism means in Irish history," a Vatican diplomatic source told the news agency.
Vatican officials fear that other countries will follow suit because of the cost of keeping two embassies in Rome, one accredited to the Vatican, the other to the Italian government
A Vatican source said Ireland only informed the Vatican shortly before the announcement was made on Thursday night.
Dublin's foreign ministry said the embassy was being closed because "it yields no economic return" and that relations would be continued with an ambassador in Dublin.
The source said the Vatican was "extremely irritated" by the wording equating diplomatic missions with economic return, particularly as the Vatican sees its diplomatic role as promoting human values.
Irish Government has denied that Ireland’s failing relationship with the Catholic Church had anything to do with the decision to shut the Irish embassy in the Vatican. They maintain its closure is entirely down to the cost-cutting programme prompted by Ireland’s EU-IMF bailout.
Ireland’s decision to close the embassies in Timor Leste, Iran and the Vatican will save the country around $1.6 million per year.
Eamon Gilmore, the Minister for Foreign Affairs to Ireland’s National Broadcaster, RTE : “That was not a consideration.
“Our diplomatic relations with the Vatican will continue and they are valued.”
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READ MORE:
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Last July the Vatican recalled its ambassador in Ireland after Prime Minister Enda Kenny accused the Holy See of obstructing investigations into sexual abuse carried out by Catholic priests in Ireland.
However Gilmore insisted: “The fact that we have chosen to close our mission in the Vatican and to have it serviced from Dublin doesn’t necessarily mean that we won’t have a Papal Nuncio here.”
He also said it was “one of those regrettable decisions we have had to make."
On Thursday, Ireland’s Primate Cardinal Sean Brady expressed his “profound disappointment" with the Government’s decision embassy to the Vatican.
He said this decision “means that Ireland will be without a resident Ambassador to the Holy See for the first time since diplomatic relations were established ... in 1929."
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.feeneycj | Nov 07, 2011, 10:48 AM EST
an ambassador in Dublin will work. the internet and new technologies bring us all closer. have faith.
DrSheilahere | Nov 07, 2011, 10:22 AM EST
The Church, and I am a Catholic, has handled its sins about as poorly as they could, from the Pope on down. Swift action should have been taken as the atrocities unfolded. Then some soul searching should have gone on as to why men were entering the priesthood, how they were behaving, and why it was all covered up. I believe Christ used the expression 'a whitened sepulchre."
eiriamach | Nov 06, 2011, 07:35 PM EST
Well I'm not laughing, etighe! I find nothing at all funny about the assaults of the RCC on women's rights, for example, to the most basic health care. Today's NY Times supports the Obama plan requiring health insurers to cover contraceptives for women against attempts by the US Catholic bishops to kill this coverage. Men can be treated for STDs by any doctor, but women are stigmatized and nearly criminalized for trying to exercise essential moral responsibility for reproduction. The Times notes, "The issue was joined last week at a House Energy and Commerce subcommittee hearing.... At the hearing, Jon O’Brien, the president of Catholics for Choice, testified that 98 percent of sexually active Catholic women in the United States have used a form of contraception banned by the Vatican. [O'Brien] criticized the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops for doing the very thing that it wrongly accuses the administration of doing: trying to impede 'the religious freedom of millions of Americans' by 'taking reproductive health care options away from everybody.' The administration’s policy on birth control coverage follows the recommendation of the National Academy of Sciences’ Institute of Medicine, which studied the medical facts, including high rates of unintended pregnancy and abortion largely caused by lack of access to birth control. President Obama should stand by the policy." To have to fight for such basic health coverage in the 21st century as though we were living in the Dark Ages is certainly not "comical." It's something to howl about until the RCC bishops learn to keep their SS boots off women's necks and their lecherous hands off the children.
etighe1130 | Nov 06, 2011, 01:57 PM EST
I find this piece to be comical given the anti-Catholic slant to this online publication. Everything negative, however small is given top priority at Irish Central. The hatred for the Church is very apparent. If it wasn't the sex abuse scandal, the anti Catholic bigots would have found some other fault to blame the Church for their lot in life. The Church isn't perfect and it never claimed to be. And I know that they'll never be as perfect as those that beat up on the Church.
barneyjo | Nov 06, 2011, 10:22 AM EST
@Gearoid4, JOHNTOBIN et al - I think all posters with any shred of humanity and decency will agree that the wilful abuse of a weak and vulnerable person, by another who for whatever reason is more empowered is wrong, in any circumstance. If there are people with strident anti-catholic views who seek to articulate those views by posting on this (and other) site(s), then surely they are just as entitled to do so as you are entitled to post rebuttals, based on your own views, beliefs and opinions. I would however take issue with your at times "indecent" haste to "tar so many with one brush" I am a Catholic, practicing in the faith,but it is fair to say that I am deeply disturbed by the many revalations that have come to light about the stewardship of our church, here in Ireland where I reside, and elsewhere in the world. And my posts reflect this. I like to think that my thoughts and views are both rational, and considered, based upon not the media hype surrounding these events, but upon my own prayerful daily reflection. One poster elswhere even accused me of being "pro abortion" on the basis that my views appeared to place me in a "liberal" wing in some way. I am not a liberal,trying to up-end the church. I am however content to reserve the right to disagree with the evolving dogma that my church espouses; the new revised liturgy of the mass is one example. I can "acknowledge" one baptism but I cannot "confess" on baptism for the forgiveness of sin. Similarly, I do not "dare" to say the Lord's Prayer, but rather I continue to say it at the lord's invitation to participate in the mystery of the Eucharist. So, express your views by all means, but please accept the fact that there are many like myself who are not content to view the liturgical world through your eyes, due to revalations that have prompted many the world over to review the tenets of their faith!!
jacersagain | Nov 06, 2011, 07:28 AM EST
Well said JohnTobin & Gearoid4
ballyporeen | Nov 06, 2011, 07:04 AM EST
it should have happened 40 years ago it makes me sick to think of what they did to me @ other people
JOHNTOBIN | Nov 06, 2011, 01:47 AM EDT
At last we are starting to see some balance in the comments made by writers regarding the actions of certain clergy and others in the Catholic Church.A pleasant change from the anti-catholic mass hysteria being drummed up by some writers and journalists.Where on earth do some people get their so called facts and figures from?In many cases the sex abuse scandal-which I admit is a dreadful business in which the perpetrators will pay for either in this life or the next-is very much an excuse to give vent to their anti-catholic feelings.
Gearoid4 | Nov 06, 2011, 01:00 AM EDT
@Stan the man, The extent of sex abuse within Catholic priestly ranks statistically is no more prevalent than among the pastors, imams and rabbis of other Faith Groups. Your ridiculous description "of the endless, hidden molestation of children" with Catholicism betrays the distorted mindset that you have regarding this religion. The Concordat of 1933 was an ill-advised but well-meaning treaty that the Church signed with the nazis. It was mean't to protect the local Catholic interests and occurred before the full extent of the anti-Jewish ideology of nazism became apparent. hitler has long since detached himself from the Catholic Faith of his boyhood when he became German chancellor in 1933 and had effectively ex-communicated by his rancid racist and genocidal policies. His influences were chiefly the pagan,nationalist philosophies based on pseudoscience which were prevalent in Germany since the 19th century. You give grossly exaggerated totals for the number of deaths which you attribute to the crusaders during the period of the 1095-1272. Most historians gave figures which do not exceed 5-6 millions for all deaths(committed by all sides, which are still a terrible indictment of the nature of atrocities which accompany all wars. All major religions at one time or another have been effected by zealous adherents committing terrible deeds in their respective names. The number of deaths for the different crusades pales into comparison with the totals of many tens of millions blamed on modern despots like Stalin or Chairman Mao. At least the late, great Blessed pope, John Paul 11 in 2000 apologized profusely on behalf of the Church for the sometimes atrocious sins committed by some of Her members in history. When can we expect this from other Faith groups?
stanJames | Nov 05, 2011, 10:49 PM EDT
Cheers to the Irish Govt. the beginning of the end of vatican influence in Ireland. the church of the endless hidden molestation of children the church which signed a concordant with hitler, legitimizing the nazi regime in the eyes of catholics. the church which hated Jews due to the crucifiction. which led to endless pogroms against the Jews in the middle ages the church which also created the foundation of hatred of jews which hitler leveraged to power. And murdered 6 million jews, 100,000 gays, and about 5 million others. the church which has yet , dead or alive, to EXcommunicate hitler, and hence whose life campaign is nothing but a smokescreen. the catholic crusades against the muslims of North africa and the mid east. 10s of millions were murdered. Societies have long memories, and 9-11 was a payback from anthoer group of crazies etc etc. The church of the holy inquisition - when the church power was challenged, its result was torture and burning at the stake for hundreds fo years, May the hierarchy of the church burn for eternity. God knows how many hundreds of millions have died for the vatican.
jacersagain | Nov 05, 2011, 10:07 PM EDT
ObrianMcginty – what you call “drivel” are facts given by the Vatican’s Chief Investigator of serious crimes by priests throughout the world. Mons Charles J. Scicluna is also the Vatican’s Chief Prosecutor of these criminal priests. >> My sons have been through Catholic schools in Ireland, I have been through CBS schools in Ireland and over all those years I never once saw or heard of any incident of abuse by brothers or priests. >> I never mentioned our bond with the Jews or Islam in my posts below so why bring them up at all but for what it’s worth to you, I have consistently pointed to the evil of Islam on the pages of IrishCentral and agree with you fully in what you say on that subject.
jacersagain | Nov 05, 2011, 08:27 PM EDT
To all those below portraying the Catholic Church as being full of child abusing priests or “lecherous buggers”, I’d like to point out a few things: There are over 1.2 billion Catholics in the world; there are some 410,000 priests serving them; there are some 3000 priests under investigation by the Church for sexual wrongs, of which 900 are for heterosexual acts (of any age), 1800 for sexual acts to adolescents chiefly of the same sex, and the remaining 300 are for paedophilia i.e. sexual acts against children. 2,400 of the 3000 are USA priests. These facts do not show the church to be full of child abusers. However, we are all agreed that it is 3000 too many in the Catholic Church and we are sick to death that it happens. Can we now look at the remaining 407,000 priests who do not engage in such acts but who still go about Christ’s mission with full dignity yet under the slurs of those screaming “child abusers” at them? That would be stunning news but the media do not want this goodness to be known of.
thesavageirish | Nov 05, 2011, 06:50 PM EDT
Best thing the vatican could do to help feed the starving billions would be to get off their high horse and mind their own business regarding family planning, womens reproductive rights and condom use before the starving billions figure doubles again in another 30 years. WOW !!! ........... Ireland takes the pallium in 1151. Closes Vatican Embassy 2011. I'd call that 860 years of the patience of Job! We were christians for a millenia before them and likely will be for millenia hence.
JOHNTOBIN | Nov 05, 2011, 04:46 PM EDT
To all those people claiming that the Catholic Church or any other Christian Church for that matter do literally nothing to help the poor of the world,I would like to point out just this.Caritas International,the international welfare arm of the Catholic Church is the largest private distributor of aid and assistance to the poor throughout the world.
Blackthorn62 | Nov 05, 2011, 02:30 PM EDT
It sounds like much ado about nothing if there is still representative presence there.
Muirwoods | Nov 05, 2011, 01:55 PM EDT
A lot more countries should "stun" the Vatican by revoking the the RCC's tax exempt status and prosecuting their criminals.
solyeant | Nov 05, 2011, 01:34 PM EDT
I believe there may be a lot more to this story than meets the eye. Fiancially ireland has done the right thing to reduce costs ler's see if they step in to reduce commissions to NAMA "advisers" Any one commission would keep the embassy open in Rome but I see no great furore in finding out the personal gains made by the NAMA advisers Electronically any embassy is just a relay station where hub activities like lost passports sickness and repatriation are managed Methinks they could be better managed from a central office and that's all embassys and legates. The second interesting item is that the wealth of the Church in these periods of extreme poverty makes a mockery of the principle of distribution to the poor and needy The immense intrinsic richness of the Catholic church with its property grounds and charitable trusts wherein donations are concealed would go a long way to reducing world poverty in the same way as the Queen of England would help reduce poverty in England if she liquidatet her assets and estates . When the time arises for most ordinary people to cull back what is their right I"am afraid they will not look too closely at the nature of religion ireland can at least say they do not sponsor evident signs of RC wealth because their absence will be a useful argument in this forum. However ireland should not leave it just as it is but should now continue to push for distribution of Vatican wealth and make their citizens display honesty in the declaration of their revenues and wealth. As far as I am aware the corporate financial figures for the Church or indeed most churches is a secret Now is it by design or has no means been found to consolidate assets and liabiliities sufficent to conceal reral soverign wealth Thansk
cillowen | Nov 05, 2011, 12:41 PM EDT
They have a new Pope to their liking - you know how they love their occupier Saxon Queen and all that goes with it. The Queen's papacy (or mapacy) that maintains the tradition of Henry VIII. The Irish, except for a few who were willing to put their lives on the line and in doing so, made all others believe that all of the Irish were a prideful people. All of that is but a sick joke - they yearn to serve mother like Americans and gain knighting recognition.
Rebelforce | Nov 05, 2011, 12:19 PM EDT
Atleast they had the decency not to close the Irish embassies in Saudi Arabia, Bahrain or the United Arab emirates, which would have been a terrible shame given the outstanding Irish contributions to the spread of Islam around the world.
sothatsit | Nov 05, 2011, 09:08 AM EDT
It is sad that in these difficult economic times things like this have to occur. Hopefully, the world will find a way forward to help the billions worldwide that are suffering the most to survive this depression. Even the center of Christianity is feeling the pain. I think the Vatican should use this worldwide event in the same fashion as everyone else. Time to "clean house" and get rid of excess. I think the Vatican should use this downturn to address the number one problem they continuously have had to deal with for the last 30 years or so that has become the main detriment to the religion as a whole. Christianity is a shrinking religion worldwide because of the perverted actions of a select few. The Vatican needs to form a solution to overcome this problem. It is a difficult thing to see whats in another mans heart, but a solution must be found. Structure of local churches must be changed. Times have changed, the Vatican must find a solution. The church that wants us to come and pray can not have families scared to allow their children to attend on their own. I mean no insult to anyone. Please take my comment as merely an opinion of my own. I do not harbor any malice to the religion. I am just trying to enunciate what many people world wide are feeling in their hearts. Payoffs aren't a solution, there must be actual structural management changes transparent to everyone to see. Fix the problem. 2 person rule seems to be a winner. Pastors must never be alone with children. I know its painful to have to admit evil exists in within the church, but is it not the obvious place for evil to make inroads? Wouldn't the devil get the most influence in an environment that humans specifically seek the lords help and advice? You must combat this evil. Route it out,change management structure at the local level.
MacGiobuinR | Nov 05, 2011, 08:18 AM EDT
As I stated yesterday if the Vatican really does not want the Embassy closed step up and pay the rent. They said that they were irritated with the economic return reasoning used by the Irish Government,hmmmm,.... does that mean no more collection plates at Mass?? Slainte!