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US cop says Irish cops need to carry firearms too - POLL

Finds their lack of resources 'mind boggling'

CATHY HAYES,

IrishCentral.com Staff Writer

Published Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 2:19 PM

Updated Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 6:12 PM

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23 Comments

Unarmed Irish Gardai form a police line during a protest in Dublin, against the visit of Britain's Queen Elizabeth II

Photo by AFP

IrishCentral.com Poll

Irish American homicide detective, Edward Foy, has witnessed Irish police being intimidated on the street by intoxicated offenders. He believes the time has come for Irish police to carry guns.

The 39-year U.S. law enforcement veteran explained what he had witnessed on St. Patrick's Day in Dublin this year, in an column on Journal.ie. While heading back to his hotel off Grafton Street he and his colleague, who were also on vacation, spotted a group of police who were being surrounded by "intoxicated youthful offenders".

Foy said "I watched, thinking “I hope these thugs are not armed with a gun or edged weapon.” Because when you go up against multiple individuals who are under the influence, it’s dangerous. And the only weapon they have is a nightstick. In my opinion, arming these officers with nothing but a baton in these conditions is simply reckless."

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After observing the situation for a number of minutes Foy and his buddies stepped in. He said "The officers knew we were cops – and we just basically stood around the two of them. It could have been really ugly; but there were four of us, and we’re above average size, and we had their back. So when the crowd was dispersed they thanked us and we on about our business, they went about theirs."
The homicide detective said the difference between being armed with a nightstick or a gun is "an unwritten respect".

He said "If I’m going into a confrontation with seven, eight individuals, and I’m armed, they know it. So they’re going to take a second thought about getting into a confrontation. But these thugs, they knew that the maximum protection of these two garda officers was an expandable baton. If I’m a thug in that situation, I’ve got to think I like my odds. But if I have to deal with an officer who’s got a firearm, I’m going to think twice."

Foy calls to mind a horrific recent incident which could have ended differently had the police officer been carrying a gun. He said "Recently there was a case of a garda who was attending a domestic disturbance, and he had boiling oil thrown in his face. Now when I look at that, I think: Would that incident have brought about the use of a firearm? Probably not. But would that person have thrown the grease knowing that the officer was armed? That’s the question."

He says the fact that Irish police are going on their daily beat with limited resources is "mind boggling" to him and his colleagues. He explained "I follow the Irish media, and in my estimation there has been a serious escalation in gun crime since six or seven years ago. It’s reckless to have unarmed officers dealing with that kind of situation."

He continued I really feel sorry for the Irish officers, in a way. Because they don’t have that protection. I know that a lot of the higher level guys dealing with organized crime are armed. But I also know that the street-level people are your first line of defense. When you see the stories about these guys being injured, or dying – it’s appalling. They’ve got families, they’ve got children. If I’m an officer, and I’ve got four or five kids, I want to go home to them every night."

Foy has worked in law enforcement in the United States for 39 years and regularly visits Ireland. He currently works at the Manatee County Sheriff's Office, in Florida. He told Journal.ie "My great-grandparents on both sides were born in Ireland, one in Donegal and the other in Mayo, and I regularly visit Ireland with some other officers of Irish heritage."

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maloney | Jul 30, 2011, 02:48 PM EDT

sirpeter..skunks make great pets when you get them young and raise them. Descented of course. It's not to expensive to have ones glands removed. They are smart, easy to train and make much better pets than a cat. A skunks coat, fur is one of the prettiest in the animal world. They can be lots of fun at a party or tricking, scaring your friends.

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sirpeter | Jul 30, 2011, 08:14 AM EDT

maloney.Wow!! Don't think I have ever smelled anything worse then rotting fish or animals.Except for pure ammonia,but a person could avoid that.That's some non-lethal weapon skunks have. ;))

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maloney | Jul 29, 2011, 04:55 PM EDT

sirpeter..If it's not the worst I don't know what is. Your eyes water to where you can't see. You have severe breathing problems. If sprayed you will smell it for at least a month with every breath. I've smelled death and skunk is worse. In army basic training you go through a building filled with gas. The drill instructers make you take your mask off and count to 10 before you can run out of the building. It takes well over an hour to get over it. Skunk is much worse!! Rotten fish smell like roses in comparison.

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sirpeter | Jul 28, 2011, 05:55 PM EDT

maloney. As you know we don't have skunks in Ireland.Though I will admit I have met a few people who seem to enjoy impersonating a skunk lol.Still I read somewhere it's about the worst smell in the world.Not sure if that is true.

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maloney | Jul 28, 2011, 05:27 PM EDT

sirpeter. Being shot may be better than skunk squirted. I grew up in the country on a farm. Dad and I hunted quite a bit and did some live trapping. Dad had some wild skunks in a cage. I remember him getting sprayed at least twice. Mom made him stand in a metal tub while she poured tomatoe juice over his head. He slept in the barn for almost a week. His clothes were burned. She finally made him turn the skunks loose. Lots of laughs!! We hunted coons with hounds and every so often the dogs would get on a skunk and get sprayed. You had to load the dogs in the truck when done. I had skunk on me and spent time in the tub myself but not near as bad as getting hit from the source.

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sirpeter | Jul 28, 2011, 01:32 PM EDT

maloney.lol..You might have a good idea there.I fancy the idea of filling the water pistols with liquid skunk spray.A few sprays of liquid skunk and you can burn your clothes and have to spend a few nights out in the garden sleeping.:))

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JOHNTOBIN | Jul 28, 2011, 01:48 AM EDT

The police service of the Republic of Ireland along with the police services of New Zealand and the United Kingdom are amongst the few in the world that generally patrol unarmed.And long may it remain so.

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maloney | Jul 27, 2011, 08:18 PM EDT

LOL sirpeter you old angry cynical Irishman. How about a compromise? Arm the Garda with water pistols. Have them practice the quick draw while walking the streets. You can get very realistic looking squirters in this day and age. Nobody shoots themselves and everybody is happy.!!

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sirpeter | Jul 27, 2011, 06:06 PM EDT

@hostess.Judging by your comments I would of thought you were the one overly angry and cynical about Ireland.Hold on to your false beliefs if you want.I didn't expect to change your mind anyway.All I said was look up the statistics on Ireland.But I know you don't want too.If it makes you feel better that you are in a safer country.That's great.As they say in New York.Have a nice day!! ;))PS. You did check back didn't you lol.I defended my country against over exaggeration and what you like to believe and it made you angry.

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hostess | Jul 27, 2011, 01:32 PM EDT

I bid you a good day sir peter, you are a very angry cynical man who obviously goes around with blinkers on and is complete denial. The country is that way because of ignorant people like you who are I'll informed. I notice you respond to many of the articles on Irish central with the same unintelligent nonsense. You must have nothing better to do with your day! For your information the cops are on the highway to stop speeding and perhaps if there were a few more over there so many people would not lose their lives. It's great that we have that protection , pity we don't see more of it in Ireland. I won't be checking in again as I have made my points and truly believe every word otherwise I would not be wasting my time on here.

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sirpeter | Jul 27, 2011, 01:04 PM EDT

@hostess.Well if you can't go up your local highway without spotting at least two cop cars then there must be a need for them.Personally I never like to see cops on a motorway.They can upset your journey with a fine if you missed the fact your break light has blown.As for your family home been broken into three times that sounds very unlucky.To judge a country on safety you still have to go on statistics.My house was never broken into (touch wood)and yours was three times.What does that prove? Besides the fact your family home appears to be an easy target.Tell your parents put up a sign."Never mind the dog~Beware of the owner" ;))

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kinvara7 | Jul 27, 2011, 11:04 AM EDT

The issue certainly isn't going to go away and a debate is welcome. With the greatest of respect to your views and experiences, I think an analysis and comparison of statistics is required rather than just personal accounts. As an example, the US homicide rate is among the highest in the industrialized world at 5.0 while Ireland’s is 1.35. I agree that we need to take steps to tackle crime, but I remain unconvinced that arming every single guard is the answer. If we are serious about tackling crime, then yes we do need to address issues such as alcohol and substance abuse. We need to think of ways to improve the conditions for those living in the worst areas of our cities and towns. We need to look at city planning, our school system (in particular early school drop-outs) etc. We also need to change our present sentencing and prison system. A lot of changes would have to be made across the board, and the results would not be immediate either, but in the long run it's the only way.

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hostess | Jul 27, 2011, 10:23 AM EDT

Kinvara, yes I do believe that I could allow my teenage children to travel to NYC at night in the summer and feel that they are safe. I know from all my visits to a major Capital with millions of people roaming that I will not be robbed or assaulted because there is an armed cop on every corner nearly. Yes I definitely feel less crime is committed as a result of a guard being armed and yes the criminals in Ireland would be less likely to take someone's family including children and tie them up in the local graveyard ( true story) while they take a family to empty the Banks safe if they knew that they would be facing armed Gardai. The force would only be used when necessary and that is what training is there for. I feel very strongly on the subject as I have had too many incidents close to home. Also don't feel safe from many other view points. When my dad had a massive heart attack and emergency services were called, the ambulance was unable to find the house he was at and took 50 minutes to arrive( hospital 10 minute drive away) ambulance driver apologized to my brother a month later in the local golf club. My dad passed away :( I just don't have any trust in the system.... everything so unpredictable.

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hostess | Jul 27, 2011, 10:09 AM EDT

Sorry new keyboard with auto correct, apologies for the mistakes:)

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hostess | Jul 27, 2011, 10:06 AM EDT

Sirpeter, I am in the US 9 years and believe me I feel safe. I can't go up my local highway without spotting at least two cop cars. I would say I am 100% safe here compared to Ireland. My family home in a nice area of Dublin was broken into three times growing up and they left us behind a nice parting gift. My sister bank( major branch) raided twice by armed criminals also in a respectable part of Dublin, my moms post office in the SE raided last month by criminals, my claifornian friends visiting Dublin last summer accosted by drunken youths on Grafton Street at 9 o clock at night and not an officer to be seen, my camcorder stolen from my bag at my 5 year old birthday party at a well known kids party club and gym with a high membership fee, my moms handbag or purse as it as known here cut from her shoulder as she walked to her local grocery store. Police told her it is common and they are looking for drug money. My list could go on and on, statistics are HIGH over there and getting worst for such a small island. I live in area here 50 miles from NYC with a population of 25, 000 and I can honestly say I have never encountered let alone heard of any of these crimes being committed on such a regular basis. None of my stories about Ireland are here say, they are factual happening to real people that I love and care about. It is just so shocking to me. Also on a different not underage drinking needs to be tackled so badly. Alcohol abuse is the root cause of many of these crimes. Just look at the reports of the youth falling around the streets on St Patricks Day. An ID system such as the driving licence ..... How easy is that to put in place and yet no minister has had the initiative. I love my homeland but it is riddled with crime and something needs to be done quickly.

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