65 Comments

• barneyjo | Jul 09, 2012, 05:11 AM EDT

  :)

• seanomelb | Jul 09, 2012, 12:31 AM EDT

  Thank you for the interesting dialogue barneyjo

• barneyjo | Jul 08, 2012, 08:20 PM EDT

  @seanomelb - thank you for being so forthright. To quote the closing line of dialogue from my favourite cowboy film Outlaw Josey Wales, and spoken by Clint Eastwood; "Perhaps we all died a little in that damn war" Much food for thought in that for us all :)

• seanomelb | Jul 08, 2012, 07:04 PM EDT

  Barneyjo I acknowledge that your personal experiences are tragic in the extreme and thankfully I never had to witness your pain and that of your sister and many others who lived in the north at that time.But you really cannot state that because we were not their that we have no knowledge or were not affected in some way by the events in the north. It was The Irish diaspora who countered the British propaganda machine in the U.S. Australia and in other nations against the wishes of their respective governments. I can assure you that the Australian government made every attempt to harass republican protesters and I had my business and home raided on an illegal warrant and was consistently followed by federal and state police and harassed on a weekly basis and I was not alone others were pursued as well. So barney I did not live the tragedy in the north but paid a penalty for sympathizing with you.

• barneyjo | Jul 07, 2012, 09:44 PM EDT

  @seanomelb - I do not have any "grand truth" as you put it, only my truth. I can certainly relate to the awful experience you relate with regard to your family, but you do not make it clear if you yourself were present and held along with your family? We certainly all have stories to tell, but I think you will find that where we live is quite material. In your own case the view you have of British Troops would be even more coloured due to their treatment of your family on the Derry/Donegal if you you had been present rather than if you were abroad. It is one thing to hear reports on the media or from another person about how a 29 year old woman was blown to bits, it is quite another to be a witness to the aftermath of that event I assure you. This event occurred 30 years ago, yet I can still get the acrid smell of burning flesh, feel the nausea rise at the very thought of what I along with my younger sister witnessed that day. I was in a state of shock and to my shame I neglected to shield this awful sight from her eyes. And I know that she has also disturbed memories of that day also. Although I was not physically injured, I count myself a victim, like many others for having lost much of the potential of my formative years to the awfulness of a war (for that is what it was)There were others who got it worse; much worse. So no, with respect, I think you will find that your view of the irish world, and indeed the view of all from afar is markedly different from those who endured the fear and uncertainty of daily life here!!

• seanomelb | Jul 07, 2012, 08:53 PM EDT

  barneyjo my sister(in her wedding gown)and her entourage were prevented from entering Donegal for her wedding by British troops they were held their for 6 hours before my mother lost it and shamed them in letting the wedding party through.Your bleeding heart attitude does not give you any impetus or "grand truth" we all have memories of what happened and the fact that some of us are not "on the ground' so to speak, is irrelevant. WE all have stories to tell of our experiences and where we live is immaterial.

• barneyjo | Jul 07, 2012, 12:38 PM EDT

  @citizen69 - Your concolusion is the most obvious one I'll grant you. However there were other industrial centres in Ireland, albeit not on the same scale as Belfast which could conceivably have developed over a period. I also happen to think that James Craig and Michael Collins were moving towards a working relationship not unlike that reached between the DUP and Sinn Fein Leaderships which could in time have taken the whole country along a different road. Sadly he was cut down before that relationship could develop further. I also happen to think that Collins's overtures to Craig and the Unionists probably impacted on the minds of those who were responsible for his assination, whoever they were!! Tragic in every sense.

• citizen69 | Jul 07, 2012, 12:04 PM EDT

  @Barneyjo: For sure, the history of this island would be markedly different but for better or worse? The industrious north would definitely have improved the economic prospects of Ireland but only if the Unionist population were willing to accept a 32 county republic. All indications were that had Partition not happened then Ireland would have been crippled by a huge civil war much worse than the one the Free State endured. Who knows how long that would have lasted? Either way i think most of the poverty black spots in the north would still be in the same predicament today. Who knows though.

• barneyjo | Jul 07, 2012, 07:37 AM EDT

  @citizen69 - fair point. However I am sure you can at least consider the prospect that the history of this island would be markedly different today, if the island had not been partitioned and evolved as a singular 32 county entity as a sovereign state?

• citizen69 | Jul 07, 2012, 06:42 AM EDT

  @sirpeter: Unlike some i don't blame Britian for all my failings in life. My situation was more linked to poverty. I come from a working class family of ten children. As with Rep. of Ireland and every other country, poverty and low educational attainment go hand in hand. Places like Ballymun & Tallaght wouldn't have been much different than the Shankill. When i was in School your country didn't have a pot to piss in so i doubt i would have been living the high-life in a United Ireland. In fact apart from a brief 10-15 year period where RoI were spending money they didn't own your country has systematically failed to provide for it's young people. Try telling the 1,000 kids who leave RoI every week that they have a good job waiting for them. Any country that cannot prevent the constant hemorrhaging of it's own people trying to find a better life elsewhere is no county i aspire to be part of.

• barneyjo | Jul 07, 2012, 06:08 AM EDT

  @maireadinmelb - Madam,at no point did I ever say that the opinions of anyone other than myself were wrong; I said they were qualified which in this case means that they are offered by posters separated from Irelands recent events, either by distance, years, generations, or in some cases, a combination of these factors. You quite rightly state that "sometimes from the outside there is a different perspective" that difference, and I have tried to illustrate that difference in my earlier post with events that have occurred me during my life. There have been other such events, more personal, and painful which have profoundly affected and shaped my life from the day they occurred. I will not speak of them hear for it brings me pain, just to remember them as I type. And I am not unique. There are many, many thousands of people who can recall incidents and events like those I describe. If Citizen69 is sincere (and I believe he is)he is able to recall many of the same events, but from a potentially different perspective (the other side of the "fence")I neither wish to be offensive or abusive in any of my posts on any topic (except when I get a bit riled) but I make the point again that your view of Ireland today is tempered by distance, years, and 3rd party information resources, and respectfully, that is what makes it "qualified" not wrong, but "qualified" :)

• maireadinmelb | Jul 07, 2012, 04:31 AM EDT

  Again you make assumptions about what people have seen and experienced. You know nothing of me or my family or of Sean of canadianirish and their families! To assume makes you an ass! so just accept that sometimes from the outside there is a different perspective - not wrong but different!

• sirpeter | Jul 06, 2012, 04:35 PM EDT

  @citizen69.See what thanks you got from the Brits for your loyalty to the crown.When I was growing up every Protestant had one of two options after secondary level education.A good job waiting for him or onto college.I tell no lie.I knew a a guy once in a Protestant club.He was an electrician,a tradesman.We didn't half joke with him about it.Because he did it to spite his parents.They had other plans apparently.Still they made sure he got good contracts.

• acooney | Jul 06, 2012, 12:45 PM EDT

  They should not apologize for anything. War is war, Brits invaded we stood up to them,. If someone breaks into your home and you shoot them, do you then apologize for it? NO. You have every right to defend what is yours.

• barneyjo | Jul 06, 2012, 10:31 AM EDT

  @Citizen69 - the school that let you (and others) down is no longer here. You are!!

• barneyjo | Jul 06, 2012, 10:28 AM EDT

  @WoundedKnee - See my post below..........then see Citizen69s post below.........then, go figure!!!!!

• citizen69 | Jul 06, 2012, 10:21 AM EDT

  @barneyjo: I can't talk about grammar. I'm the product of a a bad state school on the Shankill of which not one person in it's entire history went on to third level education (now demolished!).

• citizen69 | Jul 06, 2012, 10:17 AM EDT

  @WoundedKnee: He may be Irish born but he was born in a different country from where the bulk of the 'Troubles' took place and no amount of word play or denial is going to change that fact. I'm not out to censor anybody, he can comment all he likes but as someone who has probably never set foot in Northern Ireland and who left the Republic of Ireland many a long year ago, he has little investment or tangible connection to the subject matter regarding the modern day situation.

• WoundedKnee | Jul 06, 2012, 09:40 AM EDT

  citizen69--Seanomel said he is Dublin born. That means he's Irish. He has every right to comment on the affairs of his country, and worthless little bigots like you can't censor him.

• barneyjo | Jul 06, 2012, 09:10 AM EDT

  @Citizen69 - bad grammar and sentence structure,and there's always a further thought to include :)

• citizen69 | Jul 06, 2012, 07:36 AM EDT

  Third time's the charm!

• barneyjo | Jul 06, 2012, 04:55 AM EDT

  @Seanomelb - Actively involved in the politics of the six counties..... from Australia; thats, what 18,000 miles away? Have you ever been in a situation where you said good morning to your local shopkeeper when you bought sweets on your way to school, only to be told by your Mum that he had been shot during the day when you got home? Ever been out driving your car in a particular locality only to be told later that you had driven over a 400 pound unexploded booby-trap bomb? Ever been called a "Fenian b~~~~~d" by a British Soldier who forced you to sit in a car by the roadside for four hours on your way home from a dance in Donegal, just because he could? Ever seen, or smelt a human cadaver (body part) that has been partially roasted by a bomb blast and you knew that 10 minutes before that cadaver had been part of a 29yr old female who had taught you to swim? Ever felt the elation of feeling the Unionist monolith that had played such a part in shaping your life, tremble with fear for the first time in its history, just because of the way you had cast a vote in a parliamentary by-election? And you tell me that you have been actively involved in the politics of the six counties, from afar?????? Well thats fine; perception is everything I suppose. :)

• barneyjo | Jul 06, 2012, 03:54 AM EDT

  eanomelb - Actively involved in the politics of the six counties..... from Australia; thats, what 18,000 miles away? Have you ever been in a situation where you said good morning to your local shopkeeper when you bought sweets on your way to school, only to be told by your Mum that he had been shot during the day when you got home? Ever been out driving your car in a particular locality only to be told later that you had driven over a 400 pound unexploded booby-trap bomb? Ever been called a "Fenian b~~~~~d" by a British Soldier who forced you to sit in a car by the roadside for four hours on your way home from a dance in Donegal, just because he could? Ever seen, or smelt a human cadaver (body part) that has been partially roasted by a bomb blast and you knew the person who's body part it was? Ever felt the elation of feeling the Unionist monolith that had played such a part in shaping your life, tremble with fear for the first time in its history, just because of the way you had cast a vote in a parliamentary by-election? And you tell me that you have been actively involved in the politics of the six counties, from afar?????? Well thats fine; perception is everything I suppose. :)

• barneyjo | Jul 06, 2012, 03:51 AM EDT

  Seanomelb - Actively involved in the politics of the six counties..... from Australia; thats, what 18,000 miles away? Have you ever been in a situation where you said good morning to your local shopkeeper when you bought sweets on your way to school, only to be told by your Mum that he had been shot during the day when you got home? Ever been out driving your car in a particular locality only to be told later that you had driven over a 400 pound unexploded boob-trap bomb? Ever been called a "Fenian b~~~~~d" by a British Soldier who forced you to sit in a car by the roadside for four hours on your way home from a dance in Donegal, just because he could? Ever seen, or smelt a human cadaver (body part) that has been partially roasted by a bomb blast and you knew the person who's body part it was? Ever felt the elation of feeling the Unionist monolith that had played such a part in shaping your life, tremble with fear for the first time in its history, just because of the way you had cast a vote in a parliamentary by-election? And you tell me that you have been actively involved in the politics of the six counties, from afar?????? Well thats fine; perception is everything I suppose :)

• citizen69 | Jul 06, 2012, 01:41 AM EDT

  Seanomelb: so you are Dublin born and have lived in Oz for decades. You have no connection with Northern Ireland whatsoever then but think your opinion matters?

• seanomelb | Jul 05, 2012, 08:31 PM EDT

  Barneyjo you need to climb down from your self created high horse. I live In Oz (Dublin born)and the family have been actively involved in the politics of the six counties for the past generation.Your footsteps are no more valid than anyone else's.How dare you look down your nose and state (to paraphrase) "I lived here therefore I know more than you" sounds quite arrogant to me.

• YoungPike | Jul 05, 2012, 06:23 PM EDT

  The British have done the right thing and apologised for wrongdoings, even holding an expensive inquiry into the Bloody Sunday massacre. The IRA should therefore apologise for the atrocities they committed!

• citizen69 | Jul 05, 2012, 03:36 PM EDT

  What's the point in these apologies? I have no problems with everybody apologising to each other (which would require an apology from the Irish government as well as the British) but then will it really make a difference? The Combined loyalist Military Command have already issued an abject apology in their ceasefire statement but did it make the slightest bit of difference to anybody? Certainly it's long forgotten. All these media attention-grabbing back slapping 'historic events' don't really seam to make a blind bit of difference to anyone other than the political classes and the media which beam out false perceptions of the peace process. certainly nothing changes in the working class areas of North/West Belfast in which i live in. There is a complete lack of sincerity and effort from the main parties on the ground who seem more concerned with the tribal pot-stirring that guarantees their seats in an assembly where we can't even vote them out of power.

• ciaradexy | Jul 05, 2012, 11:57 AM EDT

  Barneyjo, great post but hopefully the only people who will be allowed to vote here are either those born here or those who live here and not people who got passports cos their granny was from somewhere in Ireland.As you said, what happens in Ireland does not affect these people and there is no way they should have any say in how MY country is run.

• barneyjo | Jul 05, 2012, 03:53 AM EDT

  @ dissenting posters - to coin the phrase "you cannot understand my world UNLESS you have walked for one mile in my shoes" The difficulty I have with posters from the Gold Coast in Australia, from New Jersey, or from Riverwalk Drive in Chicago is that they have not. Mairead is quite right when she says "you do not know what I have lived and breathed." I do know however what I have lived and breathed; and that is 50 years of living in this place, Northern Ireland, a good part of which involved living on the "edge" guarded in what I said, what I did, where I went, who I talked to, and trying to raise a family in the midst of that. That of course does give me a unique insight into life here that others watching from a distance simply do not have; I'm sorry but there it is. Sir Peter's points about blood sacrafice for Ireland, although inspirational are also aspirational. At no point since the creation of the Irish Republic, has any campaign by the Republican come close to securing a declaration of intent of British Withdrawal from Ireland without the consent of a majority of people in Northern Ireland; ie upwards of 0ne million Unionists, who do not "yet" share the aspiration of a fully sovereign United Ireland. Yes, the financial and moral support from Irish America was critical.Yes the men of 1916 died for the "aspiration" of a free and united country, but the "One More Push" methodology is clearly dated in the minds of all those who voted across Ireland for the tenets of the Good Friday Agreement. And NO, just because of giving Dollars, it does not mean that Irish America should have a say in the settlement of Irish Matters. They dont live here, they dont vote here. Any expectations of a return on their Dollars invested were and are totally misplaced.That of course would change if a decision was ever taken to allow sections of the diaspora across the world to vote in Ireland based plebicites of course, but not until then :)

• sirpeter | Jul 05, 2012, 12:25 AM EDT

  barneyjo.In all fairness the articles themselves are puerile simplicity but that's another story.In reference to your comment to maireadinmelb.Been from NI yourself and having suffered or heard of the injustices in NI you can surely understand that 2nd or 3rd generation Irish Americans have helped in no small way to bring about the present more peaceful and just situation by supplying arms to those less timid when confronted with armed Protestant tyranny when peaceful means failed.I wouldn't expect an Irish American Armchair Republican to fight and die on an Irish battlefield.But if I needed arms I would be delighted if they helped finance them as they have being doing.Did the men of 1916 die for a partitioned Ireland?No!! They didn't.Did the Irish American Armchair Republicans finance the armed struggle for 30 years for a half-baked UI?I guess a lot of them say no they didn't.You nor I payed the ultimate price.So I guess Irish Americans and others are entitled to have a say on this NI matter.For surely those who live in NI would never have worked it out.I wish they would fu*k off with the rest of their opinions though.;))

• maireadinmelb | Jul 05, 2012, 12:02 AM EDT

  barneyjo you do not know who I am or where I am from do not guess! I do not need to justify to you my view or where it was formed! You do not have to be american to read this site! You do not know what I have lived and breathed and experienced. Dont assume an opinion that differs from yours means yours is more valuable.

• sirpeter | Jul 04, 2012, 08:32 PM EDT

  @leahkinsella.Sorry about your brother.Those who cause war make men mad.

• barneyjo | Jul 04, 2012, 08:11 PM EDT

  @merefalow - Many thanks for your directed post. I have read it through several times now as I wanted to get a full sense of your thoughts. Firstly,I would hope that apart from a few unwarranted responses, my posts are never intended to score points. I certainly seek to challenge the views expressed by others, and critique the content of posts, but only inasmuch as I am qualified to do so. I am bound by the limits of my own experience and understanding. In my post, I made a point that many posters on this site, particularly those coming from the Irish diaspora across the world, will have hold views about Ireland and its history, and will also express opinions about that history, particularly in the context of recent events. And all are at liberty to do so. However I remain firmly of the view that opinions from sources that are outside the immediacy of the recent history and changes in Ireland, are by definition, qualified opinions. If I am honest also, your use of the collective sense of "we" in the context of use, hit a nerve also. My use of the phrase “purile simplicity” was quite deliberate, because if accurately critiques a good many ( but not all) posts, particularly those from Irish Americans be they 2nd or 3rd generation. It is very clear that your post was based on considered reflection of the content of my own posts. For that, I am truly grateful :)

• seanomelb | Jul 04, 2012, 07:55 PM EDT

  WoundedKnee if the British had taken the right course in 1921 and honoured the wishes of the Irish majority that was the "best chance". And all the pain of the last 90yrs. would've been avoid.Instead they used their usual tactic of divide and conquer to exacerbate an already volatile situation.

• merefalow | Jul 04, 2012, 04:41 PM EDT

  barnejo,i wouldn't normally get involved in a pointless point scoring argument but you have hit a nerve here,firstly where i come from is neither here nor there,ive never been to Tibet,but i hate the colonization of the Chinese and the injustices inflicted upon them,i seriously take your point about armchair generals,and you have as you have pointed out suffered and lived in the middle of that vicious sectarian strife,as a self confessed second class citizen, also,. as i pointed out it was only through an armed struggle and the civil rights movement that some semblance of justice and balance was achieved and therefore because those legitimate human rights and justice had been denied for centuries by cruel despotic injustice,those men and women who had fought for those right,s had nothing to apologize for.as for my Irish credential,s, don't worry about it ,they are as good as yours,and even if i came from the dark side of the moon ,my opinion?,no you are right in a way,you lived through that fear and death so i acknowledge the points you make,as for wishing a continuatation,not me,in the multi cultural world we all live in,tribalism doesn't make much sense anymore,as long as everyone has an equal chance and equal justice,i guess it don't much matter who is perceived to rule,shake hands with the devil, that's ok,as long as he isn't screwing me..peace brother.also try telling all the diaspora of Irish spread across the world to butt out,you might get a less polite reply than mine.there never should be innocent civilian casualties but there always are,ask the big powers to apologize,they kill more innocents than anyone else,seems kind off pointless apologizing after causing the misery of someones death.it wont bring them back.i applaud the efforts made to bring peace and justice to all the people of northern Ireland,long may it continue.

• WoundedKnee | Jul 04, 2012, 04:17 PM EDT

  sirpeter: "my Irish style psychological destruction". You're hilarious! Have you discussed this with your Pakistani psychiatrist?

• sirpeter | Jul 04, 2012, 11:52 AM EDT

  @howareya.When ciaradexy sees you criticizing every unnecessary derogatory comment towards Ireland by your US neighbours she might stop criticizing the US.After all this is an American site where HER/MY country is up for scrutiny and in general criticized by many who comment here.Like you I feel the urge to criticize those who criticize too.But unlike you I'm not dumb enough to ask a person to stop or tell them that they are bitter.Are you in "Shock and Awe" at my Irish style psychological destruction of your comment yet?Or will ciaradexy have to "Freedom" your American egotism some more.I say "Bring It On"

• seamus60 | Jul 04, 2012, 10:26 AM EDT

  canadianirish. With respect I think the Combined Loyalist Command have already done that.

• canadianirish | Jul 04, 2012, 10:18 AM EDT

  @leahkinsella - I am truly sorry to hear of the way in which your brother died. And yes, your family does deserve an apology from Mr. McGuinness and Mr. Adams. A dear friend of mine from Belfast whose young cousin was 'brutally' murdered by Lenny Murphy of the Shankhill Butchers - his body was put through a meat mincer - also deserves an apology from the Loyalist paramilitaries. I wholeheartedly agree with @seanomelb that a "joint" apology is the best way forward.

• Towngate | Jul 04, 2012, 09:41 AM EDT

  "We are not going to apologise for all our Murders because we don't call ourselves by the same Name now"! ~~~~ meanwhile... The country waits for Peace and still has to listen to this guff!

• seamus60 | Jul 04, 2012, 09:23 AM EDT

  esatdigiwank. Hard to get a paper that dosen`t encourage its preferred agenda. Trouble is Martin and Co make it easy for them with regards to non stories. Will he, will he not, he`s hinting he might, others are hinting its a step too far etc etc. All designed for maximum exposure of how big a step it was for the party. Only it wasn`t for the party as the decision had already been made by Gerry and Martin. An example of papers manipulationing their preferance is proven by yesterdays Irish News. 3 pages on the resignation of a SF councillor with 42 years party membership, yet no word of it from Niall. Not a single mention on Nuzhound. Adams and Mc Guinness had earlier stated that no decision could be reached until a very conclusive consultation process took place within the party. Angela Nelson (veteran member and SF councillor in Lisburn is still waiting for it). She only knew as all other SF Councillors what was happening by means of unfolding events in the media. Many families of fallen volunteers are also up in arms that they were not consulted. Another contradiction to what Gerry and Martin were putting to the media.

• WoundedKnee | Jul 04, 2012, 09:22 AM EDT

  Seamusmor, for the second time this morning I agree with you. The military campaign was petering out in Belfast by 1974. The so-called Protestant backlash was on with a vengeance, and the IRA didn't know how to respond. For the most part they left the Catholics of Belfast and the "Murder Triangle" to be slain in their hundreds. That was the time to admit that the military campaign could never succeed. That chance was missed. Another great chance came after the Hunger Strikes, in 1981/2. If Thatcher wouldn't even concede the few basic demands sought by the prisoners, what chance was there that she would agree for the British to leave Ireland? That chance was lost, and the military campaign stuttered on. The third chance missed was in the late 1980s, when events such as the Loughgall ambush showed once and for all that the IRA was totally penetrated by spooks and informers. The campaigns in Belfast and Derry were essentially wound up by then because the British had total intelligence on the Republicans, even to the extent that the Republicans "security" group--the ones who murdered so-called spies and informants--actually reported to British Intelligence!. Loughgall showed that even out in rural Tyrone the IRA was leaking like a sieve. There were other times that the campaign could have been halted,such as after the LaMon bombing in the late 70s. The bottom line is that those who kept the campaign going (going in theory, in practice the movement was nearly impotent) should apologize for having continued with it long after all chance of victory was gone.

• seamus60 | Jul 04, 2012, 09:01 AM EDT

  leahkinsella. Regretfully I was one of those taken the orders from them well into the 90`s. You have my most humble apoligies for what happened to your family as do anyone else who have lost a loved one since 1973. The year it should have ended, only the leadership we gave our total alegiance to, would not have had even a share of the political base they hold today. Aquired by all those deaths since.

• esatdigiwank | Jul 04, 2012, 06:59 AM EDT

  Should have known the Irish 'Independent would concoct/manufacture this, plant a non-story in the readers minds whence set some of us all up for a fall because the manufactured germ of a story took on a life of its own. 'Indo newspaper is but an iniquitous rag, a pedaller of mischief, a crock of ****.

• IrelandNorth | Jul 04, 2012, 06:58 AM EDT

  Belligerants, even in an undeclared war, are hardly victims. Are they not casualties who were regrettably killed in action. Civilian casualties usually constitute the bulk of any armed conflict, as with the 1916 Rising. Demands for such apologies are probably ex-post facto attempts to retrospectively criminalise armed resistance to British imperialism in Ireland by aficionados and their footsoldiers, for whom Irish independence was always a criminal conspiracy similar to America's War of Independence. Apologies and contrition are the domain of the ego. To understand all IS to forgive all! Fortunately, Great Britian and Ireland are "... bowing to history but not being bowed by it ..." (EIIR, Dublin Castle, 2011), in creating a "... partnership of equals ..." (ibid.) Imperialism is giving way to democracy. A democratised Great Britain with Welsh and Scottish autonomy or independence, togther with a departitioned Ireland back in the Commonwealth of Nations within this decade of centenaries will facilitate mutual beneficial interdependence.

• barneyjo | Jul 04, 2012, 06:22 AM EDT

  @maireadinmelb - of course everyone is entitled to an opinion. However, unless you have lived and breathed the immediate history of this island for the past 40 years, by definition it has to be a "qualified" one. The use of a collective such as "us" by a 2nd or 3rd generation Irish American belittles the collective experience of all who have endured the problems of Ireland at the coal face ie here in Ireland through the years, and as such proxy media based experiences dont count. Any of the diaspora across the world who argue for the continuance of the armed struggle should put their money where their mouth is; come to Ireland, prepared to take up arms and use them if needs be, and take lives if required. Any that would do would be true to their principles and beliefs. For those Armchair Repbulicans who say they support further armed struggle, but stay stuck to their barstools should hang their heads in shame, for they betray the memory of those who HAVE given their lives, or shed blood for Ireland, dont you think??

• maireadinmelb | Jul 04, 2012, 04:14 AM EDT

  So we are not allowed an opinion without proving where we were born and what are links are! What rubbish. All are entitled to an opinion. All just need to recognise each comes with a different perspective! Joint apology from all sides is teh only way forward! One group cannot be blamed all the time especially when technically that group was the last to be formed! Violence existed in Ireland long before teh IRA came along!

• TayandCake | Jul 03, 2012, 09:10 PM EDT

  Who will apologize for Jedward

• seanomelb | Jul 03, 2012, 07:32 PM EDT

  leahkinsella that story can be repeated from both sides of the political divide,therefore a joint apology is the best way forward.

• barneyjo | Jul 03, 2012, 07:31 PM EDT

  @canadianirish - merefalow closed his post "yes there should be an apology,but not from us" Now, as I said in my post, if he was born in Ireland, but emmigrated, or is living in Ireland, then that collective sense in the use of the word "us" is valid. If in fact he is a Citizen of the USA, Canada, Australia (born and bred) then the "us" reference is triviallised by the fact that he has the comfort of safe distance to carp about exactly who should or should not apologise. I am a child of the troubles, a victim of state sponsored aggression, coming from a community that was viewed, regarded and treated by many in the Unionist community as something less than they were. Limited in where I could work, where I could live, send my children to school, socialise; but happily no more. To that extent you will not be surprised that I get extremely irked by those that I view as "Armchair Republicans" be they from the Americas or wherever that have views of such purile simplicity that I can only conclude were gleaned from movies or history classes in grade school. At the same time, there are many noteable exceptions to this, but these are people who have taken the trouble to inform themselves as to the new realities that exist on the Island of Ireland today, and have not necessarily been covered in the screenplay for the film "Michael Collins" (directed by Sligo man Neil Jordan and starring a son of Antrim, Liam Neeson - he's actually Irish you know!!)

• aloistmartin | Jul 03, 2012, 07:19 PM EDT

  If War is Hell ! Then "Londondery" must be Purgatory !

• leahkinsella | Jul 03, 2012, 07:03 PM EDT

  McGuinness continually prevaricates on the issue. My family want an apology from the IRA who killed my brother because of mistaken identity in 1989. McGuinness was in the IRA till 1990s so was Adams. We have no closure and can't forgive. Has CanadianIrish spoken to any immigrants from the Republic? They tell a different story.

• seanomelb | Jul 03, 2012, 06:17 PM EDT

  McGuinness is open to a joint apology from all parties including the Brits. In the interest of moving forward toward re-unification an all party apology has merit.

• cynicus | Jul 03, 2012, 06:15 PM EDT

  Cowardly, guless con-men and women! This will be remembered at the polls!

• canadianirish | Jul 03, 2012, 05:32 PM EDT

  @barneyjo - The poster 'merefalow' has a right to post his opinion on this subject without approval from you. I have spoken with many Irish immigrants from the NI who share his sentiments.

• barneyjo | Jul 03, 2012, 04:51 PM EDT

  @merefalow - If you were either born in Ireland, or if you reside in Ireland, then your comments have a bearing on the future of the Irish Nation. If on the other hand you are Irish American, then you should BUTT OUT and concern yourself with the State of the Union :)

• howareya | Jul 03, 2012, 04:15 PM EDT

  ciaradexy...We can always count on you to have some derogatory comment regarding the U.S. Yep, we have made many mistakes but the U.S. is also one of the first countries to help others in times of need. You seem to be a very bitter person. Maybe if you posted some postive comments about anything once in awhile, it might change your persona on here. You are probably very nice in person but you sure don't come off that way on this board.

• merefalow | Jul 03, 2012, 03:19 PM EDT

  apology for what,resisting invasion, colonization,exploitation,not having one man one vote before the Negroes had it,the military division of a sovereign, country,resistance to a power who,s only aim was the submergence of any national Irish identity for centuries,yes there should be an apology,but not from us.

• Bhrighde | Jul 03, 2012, 02:40 PM EDT

  Who is asking for an apology?

• Aughavey | Jul 03, 2012, 12:39 PM EDT

  Don`t think the IRA apologised to the thousands of civilians they killed and maimed - they prevaricated - that is why we have the silly definition of a victims that we currently have in NI - whereby the terrorists, both Loyalist & Republican are classed as victims as well as the kids and civilians they blew up. Only last week we had the silly notion put forward by Sinn Fein that the Shankill Butchers who randomly picked Catholics and tortured, skinned and killed them were just as much victims as the innocent Catholics they killed, the warped conclusion to the logic that IRA bombers that blew themselves up planting bombs in shops wee as much victims as the shoppers they blew up.

• bunkerisland | Jul 03, 2012, 12:20 PM EDT

  The yoke of the oppressor/invader remains in N Ireland! Forgiveness? An apology? For what purpose?

• ciaradexy | Jul 03, 2012, 11:02 AM EDT

  George, any chance you yanks will apologise for the murder of innocents all over the world at the hands of your 'military?

• clevelander | Jul 03, 2012, 10:53 AM EDT

  They have not gone away you know.

• WoundedKnee | Jul 03, 2012, 09:28 AM EDT

  I think this is the correct posture. The British never apologized for all the Argentinian boys they killed and maimed when they attacked the battleship Belgrano hundreds of miles from the Malvinas. I do however think the Sinn Fein leadership needs to issue a very detailed and abject apology for all of the members of the IRA who were shot as "informers" or "traitors". As history is now revealing, in many cases the ones sitting in judgment in the midnight kangaroo courts were themselves in the pay of the British Secret Service! We still don't know the extent of the rot, but it is likely that it goes to the very top.