104 Comments

• seanomelb | Mar 27, 2012, 06:32 PM EDT

  And you accuse me of digging holes!tut!tut!

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 27, 2012, 03:35 PM EDT

  Seano - you said the words were interchangeable, thus making your earlier point invalid...you're still wrong...but it's only a big issue with you...move on, you and your little shovel...stay out of the sun for a while...

• seanomelb | Mar 26, 2012, 07:00 PM EDT

  Verbal diarrhea is a big issue!!!

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 25, 2012, 07:10 PM EDT

  seano - I don't really care if it is, or not...you made a big issue out of nothing...that's what you do...I don't know why...

• seanomelb | Mar 25, 2012, 07:00 PM EDT

  I suppose you think cobber is a commonly used word in Australia. The last time I used a shovel was to clean-up your verbal diarrhea.

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 25, 2012, 03:13 AM EDT

  seano - stop digging, cobber....

• seanomelb | Mar 25, 2012, 12:43 AM EDT

  Collins English dict. my dear boy. As why I questioned your use!! does simplify for simpletons ring a bell lynchy

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 24, 2012, 08:25 PM EDT

  Referenda and referendums are interchangeable? They're not, as it happens...but if they were, so what point were you trying to make by highlighting my use of any one of these 'interchangeable' words, then?

• seanomelb | Mar 24, 2012, 07:53 PM EDT

  Referenda and referendums are interchangeable A modern phenomenon) to simplify the word for simpletons and those who do not comprehend a smattering of etymology. Maybe you should etymologize the word in question

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 23, 2012, 03:47 AM EDT

  Ciarad - some other possibilities...George 'n Groucho are man 'n wife...or brother and sister...I think I prefer the latter, there is less chance they would breed...what of a child carrying the genes of their huge egos...as well as their immense intellects...recalls GB Shaw's riposte to Isadora Duncan when she suggested they had a child together "With your brains and my body, what a wonder it would be" Shaw replied "Yes, but what if it had my body and your brains?"...now that's frightening...

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 22, 2012, 04:39 PM EDT

  citizen69, you yourself like to hide behind obvious impossibilities, so why accuse others of it so freely? ciaradexy, don't toot your horn before the chickens hatch. (I love mixed metaphors! did a triple once.) Sorry to disappoint you by pointing out one of your endless errors, but I'm merely an alpha FEmale. Such women are irrepressible angels, you know. Break one of our wings and we'll climb on our broomstick to find you. We're adaptable that way.

• barneyjo | Mar 22, 2012, 04:24 PM EDT

  Whether people want to hear it or not, Dan is absolutely spot on as regards on the requirements for a poll on eventual Irish Unity; predicated on the Good Friday Agreement reached between the Governments of Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland and witnessed by the Government of the United States of America. It is an agreement, binding on both parties, and a copy of the agreement is lodged with the United Nations in New York. The agreement was implemented only after the it was endorsed by a clear majority which voted in support of its implementation. Here again, facts which are independently verifiable from media resources available to all!!

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 22, 2012, 04:06 PM EDT

  Groucho - thanks for the 'drowning' information...as for your speculation...only vaguely heard of Karl Rove...as I make a point of not commenting on things I know little about, I won't comment further on him...I suggest you adopt the same strategy...but where would you post your tribal rubbish then, amigo?

• ciaradexy | Mar 22, 2012, 04:06 PM EDT

  I have just realised that Meanolgrouch IS George Dillon! He is now using Georgies ''style'' of posting! Brilliant!

• citizen69 | Mar 22, 2012, 03:50 PM EDT

  @Meanolgrouch: Your answer regarding the native American question a rather lame one. 1). It's very easy to agree to something you know has a snowball's chance in hell of ever happening. The native American population has been decimated to the point of near extinction (95% population genocide) and will never have any kind of political clout and therefore a voice to ever challenge the colonial establishment. How do you plan to support the natives in this objective you agree with? Or are you passively going to wait for an order to pack your bags that you know will never come? Maybe there's a site called NativeAmericanCentral.com where you post about how the invading oppressors have denigrated and enslaved them and that they cannot be free until they send Uncle Sam packing back to mother Europe? 2). "return of as much of their sacred lands as possible". As much as possible? Not all? So is the plan to take six states in the north east, rename them 'Northern USA' and give the rest back? ;)

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 22, 2012, 06:50 AM EDT

  Seanomelb, give serious thought to this: After reading quite a few of dano's cut and paste diatribes straight from Karl Rove's playbook, I can't help wonder if he's from the U.S. What do you think, or has anyone found out either way? If he's one of my (ugh!) countrymen, I formally disown the rat. No, take that back; rodents tend to be smart. Nasty, true. But smart. No evidence of the latter in him.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 22, 2012, 06:45 AM EDT

  Dano, a person can drown in only 2" of water. Especially when they're lying face down. Look what happened to the Minoans. Don't be so sure it won't happen to you. Water is water to a drowning man; I don't think he'll take time to parse words and shout "I'm on the Eurasian Continental Shelf, not in the ocean! What the bleep happened?"

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 22, 2012, 06:31 AM EDT

  Groucho - no chance of Ireland or England sinking to the ocean floor...they are situated on the Eurasian continental shelf, NOT in any ocean...sadly, your knowledge of geomorphology is no better than your manners!!

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 22, 2012, 05:58 AM EDT

  Seano - FOOT IN MOUTH AGAIN - Referendums is the plural form, meaning ballots on one issue (as a Latin gerund, referendum has no plural). The Latin plural gerundive referenda, refers to a plurality of issues, NOT polls...there's a fine book called the OED...so REFERENDUMS in this case.

• seanomelb | Mar 22, 2012, 01:20 AM EDT

  Anyone who disagrees with Dano is an Anglophobe. If Anglophile Dano wishes to kiss British A@@e it is his prerogative to do so. And remember Dano "Referenda"...

• seanomelb | Mar 22, 2012, 01:15 AM EDT

  I am well aware that two "referenda"(plural Latin)will have to take place I simply put my preference that One referendum is the best way forward,my opinion my free speech right.I'm suffering a mild case of "Ennui" reading your parrot fashion meaningless posts. There's a fine book called "Uncommon common sense" read it parrot.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 22, 2012, 12:22 AM EDT

  Wouldn't you know it??? FB let me register as Mean olgrouch, gave no warning, and then when I go back to check tonight, there I am as "Meanol Grouch"! What the hey - if you're offered a list of similar names, just look for a picture of the lady with the baby crib. Can't be too many of those.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 21, 2012, 10:40 PM EDT

  Shoutout to SPARKLET and anyone else who wants to read things IC seems to ban here: The page for Mean Olgrouch is up. I couldn't make them run the two words together as should be. Just remember to use TWO words when you look it up. Skunks of IC, take note: I set this FB page so everyone can read, no one can comment specifically so you can't relieve yourselves there. When IC won't accept a post here for whatever silly reason, I'll always give notice here that it's just been posted at the FB page. Spread the word.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 21, 2012, 10:39 PM EDT

  Dano, I don't kiss arse the way you want us to. I'm not bitter - I just look forward HAPPILY to the day when YOUR rotten island sinks to the ocean floor, that's all. What, must we lick your boot to be "polite"? When pigs fly, baby.

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 21, 2012, 10:11 PM EDT

  Groucho - I don't seek sainthood, or to teach anything...that said, I will continue to challenge attitudes such as yours, locked as they are into bitter Anglophobia...your insulting form of address to the HoS of a part of Ireland does you little credit, did you not hear that to get respect you have to give it? maybe it wasn't on your school curriculum? Or did you just learn a bad habit from your peers? Such bold behaviour in one of mature years is sad...you'll certainly need to 'bite your tongue' if you ever make it across...or you could always enrol in a course in good manners to prepare you for meeting your more civilised, and well-behaved cousins?

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 21, 2012, 09:17 PM EDT

  Dano, your last mangled sentence hardly qualifies you as a saint fit to teach ethics. Red, I am not "hear". I am "here". Go back to school, boys.

• RedBranch | Mar 21, 2012, 06:33 PM EDT

  Nice choice of photo IC. That's presidential candidate Martin McGuinness in 'non chuckle mode' being questioned by a young man whose father, an Irish soldier no less, was murdered by the IRA, leaving him fatherless in the 80s. Mr. McGuinness may have 'felt the pain', but denied any knowledge of the perpatrators. Does anyone hear believe this?

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 21, 2012, 04:41 PM EDT

  seanomelb - it's getting a little tedious, but here goes again...the constitutional amendment states that 2 referendums are necessary...one in each jurisdiction...respect the constitution...respect the will of the people it enshrines...fast forward from 1918 to 2012, for f's sake...or the only Milton you'll need is the stuff in the blue bottle to sterilise your feeder...

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 21, 2012, 08:32 AM EDT

  After 2 failed attempts, let me try this tactic. S p a r k l e t, please indulge me with a visit to the Santorum thread. I'll try to transmit PT 4 there. Thanks. I can't bear for you to think I'm ignoring you or forbid, dodging a subject!

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 21, 2012, 07:26 AM EDT

  Sorry, Sparklet, PT 4 isn't "printing". Yet. Maybe ??? I exceeded length restrictions for the time being. I'll try to send PT 4 later today. Do check back, please.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 21, 2012, 07:19 AM EDT

  PT 3: Sparklet, so what does Meany think about long overdue reparations for the Native Americans displaced by hordes of mainly European immigrants during the 18th and 19th centuries? First of all, I agree with the poster who said in effect, thank goodness American Indians don't have nuclear weapons! A better plan for all might be the return of as much of their sacred lands as possible at the earliest we can manage. We'd be well advised to keep such an agreement also, after having broken every single treaty we made in the past. Hence the forked tongue appellation. BTW, didja know the Seminole are still technically at war against the US??? They refused to sign a treaty and disappeared into the Florida swamps in defiance. Go figure. I guess we'll never please everyone. Nobody should misconstrue my belief in reparations as anything disloyal to America either. Meany shows love this way, by calling herself first and then others to rigorous examination of conscience. Were I to scratch the surface of how much I love this country, you'd be as old as I before you made a dent in the reading. But I'm a longwinded cuss so let's begin (and for now, end) with the short version to be revealed in part 4.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 21, 2012, 07:18 AM EDT

  PT 2: Sparklet, as stated before, I have full confidence in the wisdom, creativity, and resourcefulness of the Irish people. Regardless of those who seek to divide and conquer, you will succeed in a just and harmonious, peaceful reunification with yourselves, marriages and families considered and protected. Somehow. Nothing in that goal mandates letting the iron heel of the "mighty" British Empire continue to remain on anyone's neck. I laud and applaud cross-cultural and bi-racial mingling of all kinds. See my post on another thread about my own life experiences. But I remain alert for obfuscation, purposeful or accidental, in myself above all but also in others. The overriding methodology of peace requires realizing and remembering just where the main spoiler lives; to your immediate east. No devotee of theirs need give up being fully Irish (natural born or naturalized) or Catholic or dissenter or anything else save allegiance to the British crown! But don't ask the other Irish, especially not the majority, to enable divided loyalties, because that way lies hell on earth eternal for one and all. If you lose your British real estate, no matter how it was obtained or how welcome you are in that foreign land, you might indeed risk or even court forfeiture as the price of a clear conscience. That doesn't excuse lack of responsibility toward your own nation of brothers. Mixed couples will really have some soul searching to do, sacrificial love to practice. If Ireland freely elects to become the type of place you no longer wish to claim, you can always apply for citizenship with her oppressor. See how you like them then. Or move here. We'll treat you better. Your question of me regarding the genocide of Native Americans when we arrived on these shores will be answered in the next post, which should appear just below this one. I ask your indulgence for a long stretch of posts, but then you did ask. No sound bytes for heavy subjects available.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 21, 2012, 07:15 AM EDT

  Please Excuse The Long Run Of Lengthy Posts I'm About To Offer; I Promise Not To Let It Become Yet Another Bad Habit....(doesn't this seem a good alternative to all caps when I want to emphasize without shouting?)

• barneyjo | Mar 21, 2012, 06:46 AM EDT

  @seanomelb - your post pre-supposes that there is a consensus upon which a referendum should take place on an all Ireland basis. I seem to recall that the Secretary of state for NI, Owen Patterson poured cold water on the idea of such a referendum any time soon. And even if one were to be called now, I believe that a large proportion of Northern Nationalists would not support re-unification, due to the fact that the economy in ROI is a basket case at present (seems to be showing signs of recovery I'll grant you - but slow) Also, you reference the 1918 election and its outcome which is fair enough. However was there not a majority in the Dail which voted to support the 1921 treaty, and which DeValera roundly rejected, and did not accept. Surely a contradiction of your terms!!

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 20, 2012, 09:14 PM EDT

  MALWARE ALERT! Despite my earlier promise and intention to quit for the night, this needs to be broadcast immediately. As I was closing down, my protection system screamed "Attack" on the very core of my registry and automatically blocked a rootkit attack. Keylogger etc, no telling what. I'll have to read the report later. Until then, keep alert.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 20, 2012, 08:50 PM EDT

  Your post may appear twice, but after I worked on my last one and pressed the comment button, MINE DISAPPEARED! The time that kept happening before, "return to article" replaced "see all comments" as it did just now. Makes me wonder if that's the system's answer to avoid crashing when too many of us do that all at the same time. Again, Barney, my sincerest apologies for the confusion caused by my unintended omission several posts below. That's all I can do about it. The strides forward you described in reply are awesome. As soon as possible I'll try to recreate the hour-long work I lost about 10 minutes ago. It seems every 5 minutes one of my dogs needs something. Eventually I'll learn to compose on a separate Word document and then transfer the finished product here for transmission. Right now the last time I recall eating was yesterday. Please tune in again later.

• seanomelb | Mar 20, 2012, 07:46 PM EDT

  Post may appear twice. Meany Barney seems to infer that regardless of the outcome of a referendum we must assuage 1 million unionists and let the status quo remain. If a referendum is successful the unionists are bound by law to accept the will of the majority and if they don't like tough. I stand by my previous post that one all Ireland referendum is the only way forward as laid down by the results of the 1918 election when 80% of the Irish voted in favour of a republic.You quoted Milton correctly he also says"Awake "arise or be forever fallen" Personally I prefer 'Concessions of the weak are concessions of fear" Edmond Burke.

• Sparklet | Mar 20, 2012, 07:22 PM EDT

  RIP Ronan - a year has passed since he was murdered. God bless him.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 20, 2012, 07:22 PM EDT

  First allow me to apologize for an inadvertent, exhaustion-driven omission in my last post. I slept about 2 hours of the last 40 and frankly have seen this forum as a refuge. I failed to specify "Falls" after BTW, so a reader could legitimately think I was still speaking of and to Barney. For that reason I'd best reserve each future post for a single reply to one person. Please note I'm trying to remember to start them now with the name of my intended receiver. In the next post I'll take up your last question. Right now I'm about to lose two old chow dogs who've been with me for 16 years, through thick and thin. They're a Chinese breed, of course; but I tell them they're Irish by adoption so long as they promise not to vote GOP.

• barneyjo | Mar 20, 2012, 07:12 PM EDT

  @meanolgrouch - If its me you are referring to as having a "mystic bond" with Britain? Not so. I hold an Irish passport,live in a strongly nationalist/republican area. I speak Irish, though not fluently; in my youth I played Gaelic sports until age dictated otherwise :) In my responses I have sought to be truthful and honest from my perspective. And anyway, most if not all of my statements can be cross-checked against media sources that are available to you. I have presented my view of aspects of living here in Ireland; I did not claim that they were shared by everyone, but I would be confident that they would be representative of a considerably large shade of opinion. To support this last view, I would add that I was one of the majority that voted for the Good Friday Agreement in 1998 which paved the way for the new political dispensation we are now in; and this was a vote by all the people of Ireland, north and south, as you know. To close this post, I wish to present you with a further view. If you are minded, Google the name "Ronan Kerr" He was a Police Officer shot by dissedent Republicans last year. He was a Catholic, a Nationalist, a Gael who played Gaelic Sports in his community. His funeral was jointly staged by the GAA and the Police Service. Gerry Adams, and Martin McGuinness both attended the funeral along with the Unionist First Minister. This is the new dispensation of which I speak. This is where we are,and where we need be. And best of all, you dont just have to take my word for it!!

• Sparklet | Mar 20, 2012, 06:39 PM EDT

  Meanie, I'm afraid you're really out of touch. These days, the Irish have homes in the UK, and vice versa - bought and paid for, not stolen. There's even inter-marriage, inter-breeding. As a matter of interest, do you feel so strongly about the land stolen from the native Americans?

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 20, 2012, 12:08 PM EDT

  Protestants, Catholics, and dissenters don't have a snowball's chance in hell of reaching a mutually beneficial and prosperous peace as long as John Bull's around to stir the pot, pitting brother against brother for his own vile purposes. BTW, why do I suddenly look askance at opinions or alleged facts you present now? I notice you didn't broach the subject of your true identity, as raised by seanomelb. Your very silence on this makes me wonder if he's right after all. No Irishman I ever heard of would let such a serious challenge go unanswered. I've been searching for a gracious way to tell you that your "mystic bond with Britain" sounds a lot like Stockholm Syndrome to me. For readers who might not know, that's the tendency of hostages to identify with their captors. Although an understandable survival tactic, it can't be considered complimentary either due to the psychosis it represents. Please don't make me regret my earlier efforts at bridge building. As it stands, about the only thing that might regain my provisional trust now would be if I saw you forswear any British identity or allegiance while singing "God Save Ireland and Gerry Adams" at the top of your lungs while hanging from your heels to kiss the Blarney stone. That would be a start. But only a start. So who are you anyway? Wait - don't bother. I think I know.

• barneyjo | Mar 20, 2012, 05:44 AM EDT

  @Meanolgrouch - Its a real pity that internet forums such as this did not exist 10-20 years ago. Had it done so, we could have had a real interesting debate about a serious proposition which was floated in Ireland at the time which centred on the Republic of Ireland seeking to become a State within the Union; the rationale being that it wouldnt be much farther from Washington DC to Dublin, than from Washington DC to Honalulu. History shows that in the "Boston or Brussels" debate, Brussels won out. And, as regards the "contributions from your Dad's paycheck, they made a difference. They contributed to the struggle to get us to the point in history at which we have arrived. The cry for generations of Irish Republicans has been "Tiocfaidh ar La" (Our day will come) Well, our day has come. We are on a new road, headed in a new direction, which, it time will lead to a new political dispensation on the Island of Ireland. As a young man I got behind and supported the "Brits Out" Movement. However, as I have said previously that dynamic has been largely replaced by a spirit of mutual understanding and respect or at least the beginnings of it. In 2016 Unionists and Republicans in Northern Ireland will together commemorate both the Easter Rising of 1916 and the signing of the Covenant to remain part of the UK.There is a greater confidence on the part of all citizens to promote their heritage and to advocate a way forward for a new Ireland where "Protestant, Catholic and dissenter" can prosper each on equal terms with their neighbour.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 19, 2012, 10:52 PM EDT

  BTW, I'm not unaware of what might be mispercieved as inconsistency on my part. My own primary allegiance by far is to the country of my own birth. The US, warts and all. If Gerry Adams placed himself in serious open and direct opposition to President Obama, I'd have to make that clear. But surely you understand how much I will always care what happens "back home". The Irish will as they should own and operate Ireland for themselves. Still, I get to yell at foreign invaders like the Brits (England in particular, which has been dog in the manger all along) who try to do what I cannot and should not do either. And at least Ireland is ONE country WE never invaded.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 19, 2012, 10:35 PM EDT

  Seanomelb, are you saying some folks would rather rule in hell than serve in Heaven? Or should I be quoting Milton for the moment? (or was it someone else; please let it be Milton, please let ...) Barney, I feel dizzy with confusion, spinning around like a top this way. But somehow no matter where I wind up on the compass, I wind up in the exact same spot with huge neon letters flashing before me. They read, "Thou Shalt Not Steal". Fortunately I have such boundless faith in the Irish people that I'm sure you can all figure something out between yourselves. I'm sort of like Puerto Rico; able to send delegates but unable to vote on American politics minus statehood. What I can do is boycott like the dickens. In my childhood home that's what we did. Since my dad, a natural born US citizen and Army officer, rightfully couldn't publicize his own politics, on payday he'd explain to all of us where the money went. Household expenses, etc. Then he hand a nice wad to my grandad and say, "This is for ____ back home." Our chests would swell with pride at the evidence we were indeed still Irish. You must know how hard it is to undo all vestiges of such early training. We didn't have this and we didn't have that, but it was okay because we all felt like good soldiers. I've listened closely to you, Barney, and given your position careful thought. But at the end of the day, I'd still rather set myself afire than cede one inch of Irish land to a non-Irish UK citizen or anyone else who refused to swear true exclusive allegiance to a United Ireland first, last, and foremost. I'd sooner marry a man who kept girlfriends on the side.

• barneyjo | Mar 19, 2012, 07:35 PM EDT

  @ Meanolgrouch - I'm still wrestling with some of your interesting views on rights and possession. A couple of points for you to reflect on. British Citizens of Irish descent can apply for an Irish Passport (much as US Citizens)in effect they can hold dual nationality. Also, a number of Irish Property Developers own a very large landbanks within the UK which are worth many billions of pounds. Many famous UK product brands have been bought over by Irish Companies (wedgewood pottery). The CEO's of many large British Companies are Irish Men and women.(British Airways CEO is Willie Walsh, from Dublin) Most profitable Airline operating in the UK is Ryanair (Irish owned. So you see, it isnt exactly a "one way street" nowadays :) One other thing that I forgot to mention in an earlier post also; are you aware that the 2nd and 3rd highest grossing Walmart Stores IN THE WORLD are not in the US, but are in Northern Ireland? The Walmart (ASDA) stores are in STRABANE and ENNISKILLEN. Strange world!!!!!

• seanomelb | Mar 19, 2012, 07:11 PM EDT

  barney am I to infer from your post that a majority vote North/South would not be acceptable because unionist may not accept the will of the people?? How long do we have to assuage the negativity of unionists? personally I believe that an all Ireland election is the only true indicator.The setting up of a gerrymandered border is the real problem not the majority of the people of Ireland. The trouble with some Irish they prefer a glass half full which plays into the hands of the anti-Irish naysayers.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 19, 2012, 04:57 PM EDT

  Sparklet, despite wise counsel to the contrary, I've as yet to accept the idea of letting anyone anywhere wrest another from his rightful possession. At best, yes, if your "ordinary UK citizen who has made their home in the Republic" should MAYBE receive the grace of a chance to switch allegiance from the blighted UK to a glorious new United Ireland Republic. Maybe. At best. Certainly not if they are squatting on an "illegitimate, illegal, immoral" piece of "ancestral" (stolen) land. If said UK citizen made a bad bargain in the first place by supposedly purchasing land he should've known the original Irish would require back someday, then he should have to live with the consequences. Essentially, best case scenario: Kiss the repossessed Blarney Stone in front of God and everybody or give the stolen lands back into local citizen control. Hey, it's a lot better deal than the original owners got. I have a feeling it might also be a better deal than they'd get from an Adams UI administration. That's clearly what's ahead, you know. If I'd moved to Baghdad and purchased property formerly in the hands of a dispossed citizen, or to Jerusalem under the same circumstance, could I claim irrevocable right to hang on in the face of their national sovereignty? Hell, no! And no, I can't quite succumb to the argument that things are too tangled after so many centuries to untie the knot, and what it would cost in retribution abroad. Some principles are too sacred to betray regardless of the cost. Thou shalt not steal.

• Sparklet | Mar 19, 2012, 02:10 PM EDT

  Meanie, I'm maybe obtuse today, but who are you suggesting should be charged dearly for the privilege of staying? Your ordinary UK citizen who has made their home in the Republic?

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 19, 2012, 08:52 AM EDT

  Dang, I wish there was an edit tool so I could go back and fix my composition errors after the fact. I don't always remember to check before posting, and I'm not at all pleased with my preceding work.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 19, 2012, 08:48 AM EDT

  I'm not trying to sound high collar or anything when I mention my present circumstances. To protect my health I had to stop working 3 years before qualifying for a very modest Social Security pension, and I could only do that because I sold high in Arizona and bought low with cash at auction in a tiny Midwestern town. This hundred-year-old house was worth saving but it was starting to go fast. Although I have now replaced the roof, heating, windows, electrical and plumbing, the remaining rehab undone remains vast. If I started to feel smug and climbed on my high horse, one look at the crumbling ceiling plaster and other huge amount of remaining rehab would bring me back down to earth pretty fast. But without this place I could be living in a cardboard box under a freeway somewhere. That's one reason I could teach Scarlett O'Hara from "Gone With the Wind" a thing or two about being fiercely territorial as a survival tool.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 19, 2012, 08:28 AM EDT

  Sparklet and Barney, well said. I'm listening even when I don't always agree. But can't you at least charge them dearly for the privilege of staying and make them return stolen lands? Even in this age of worldwide mechanization and technology, plain dirt is still such a lynchpin of true wealth and security. I'd personally be so much worse off without it, as my lifetime earnings never were so high. But at least I could manage what I did have, largely through land purchase and keeping one eye sharply on the stock market to avoid looming downturns. Other forces might control what income I could earn but nobody could stop me from independent study. Right now I'm learning a lot just from haunting this forum. Believe it, I've spent much of my life between a rock and a hard place of one sort or another. Even if you have to grandfather in some people to avoid retribution raining down on the innocent, at least try to make interlopers pay dearly for it. Keep searching for the exact point where pressure becomes counterproductive and stop a nanosecond before that. Then regroup and keep on keeping on. You can't just say okay, we're all starting off even from where we stand today. Your point about a United Ireland of some kind being only a matter of time I believe to be true. But how about justice for the disenfranchised Irish citizens willing to swear allegiance ONLY to a United Ireland? A peaceful, prosperous homeland for all can't be built if past tragedy and outrage goes unredressed. Private citizens in my country never were so heavily armed as now. One more shove and we can't be trusted to keep Occupy nonviolent. And yes, I know America has to do something about the same for our own Native American Nations.

• barneyjo | Mar 19, 2012, 06:58 AM EDT

  @ Meany - Some interesting points you raise again. You rightly point to the absence of a benign English presence in Ireland across the centuries. However, we have to live in the "now" It is a regrettable truth that Ireland's most successful export always has been and always will be its own people. We have had a temporary and short lived respite from this during the boom times associated with the Celtic Tiger; only to find that the boom was built on sand and that nett emmigration has returned with the best and brightest leaving, and we are wondering how many will return. In terms of resources, Agriculture is the only sector experiencing any growth right now. It may also interest you to know that the four largest English Food Retaillers, along with Walmart (Asda Uk) are by far and away the largest customers of Irish Agriculture, and there would be no growth in this sector without them. Add to that the fact that British Government offered a loan of eight billion pounds to Ireland, at more favourable rates than being offered on the international financial markets. We cannot forget the past as you rightly say, but in today's world we simply cannot allow ourselves to be "bowed" by that past!!

• Sparklet | Mar 19, 2012, 03:43 AM EDT

  Meanie, surely the Northern Ireland hatred of their brothers in the south was down in the main to bigotry and mistrust, and the fact that the Church virtually made the laws, laws which Protestants wouldn't live with. It's always been as much a religious divide as a political one.

• Sparklet | Mar 19, 2012, 03:38 AM EDT

  I tend to look at these issues too simplistically maybe. There are two choices as I see it. A united Ireland by peaceful means, or a united Ireland by violence. The latter can't work. The former will take time. We've moved on too far to talk about invaders. I used to hold the opinion that the Protestants just didn't belong. That they were only there because of Plantation. Whether that's totally accurate or not is irrelevant. They've lived there too long to force them out. We're always hearing the Brits Out cry, but it just isn't that simple.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 18, 2012, 10:39 PM EDT

  One more point if I may, Barney. If the Brits hadn't gone raping and pillaging throughout the land, the Irish would've flourished according to their great natural resource of talent. I've always believed that North Ireland hatred of their brothers to the south has always stemmed more from British machinations than intrinsic incompatibility. And vice verse. If both work together, nobody needs suckle the British teat to survive. For one thing, look at the recent big oil find off the coast! Now if you'll excuse me, please, my own country seems to have a log stuck in its own eye. Don't hold your breath until we get everything completely straightened out over here. But right is right and wrong is wrong no matter who nor when. Become the change you want to see in the world. (I promise to say that in front of a mirror every night the rest of Lent.)

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 18, 2012, 10:24 PM EDT

  Unfortunately, if you refer to non-Irish British Citizens, those persons can hardly claim birthright in a country they occupy. Nobody said it would be simple, easy, or painless. If non-Irish citizens of a foreign state want to renounce all allegiance to the actual foreign nation (not the Republic)or commonwealth and then apply for citizenship in a preferably United Ireland, let them apply and hope to Heaven the judge reviewing their case didn't lose relatives or land to the usurping invaders, because it wouldn't do their cause any good. They could have a choice. They can't be allowed to continue possession of that which is not theirs to begin with. That is theft plain and simple. BTW, I don't recall saying they'd ALL be thrown out; more like forced to give up their ill gotten gains and do something to earn Irish citizenship if and when an Irish law and/or courts allow. If citizens of a usurping invader don't wish to or cannot make the cut, tough. Somebody robs me and I catch them, I want my possessions back. Yesterday! Completely open borders are a fool's pipe dream.

• barneyjo | Mar 18, 2012, 08:49 PM EDT

  @Meanolgrouch - I infer from your comments that Ireland should ask the 22,000 British Citizens who have made their home in Ireland to leave? Well ok, but what about the 21,000 US born citizens who have done the same? Or Spanish, Poles, Romanians, Kenyans; all of which form sizeable ethnic minorities in Ireland today? And furthermore, what of the 6 million of Irish descent in the UK, with the numbers boosted by many thousands of economic migrants having to leave Ireland (again) for a greater good. If the Irish Government were to reserve the right to do as you suggest, then the UK Government are surely to do likewise in terms of Irish economic migrants. And if the British Government were to act in a reciprocal fashion, where would we (Irish) go? Not back to Ireland thats for sure.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 18, 2012, 08:37 PM EDT

  (Thanks to you also, Sparklet. I'll try to live up to it.) That's just the thing, everyone. Since only babies like to be changed, why not look toward a well-marinated salad bowl society rather than a naturally contentious melting pot? No need for anyone to give up their cherished disctinctive heart nor culture. But there won't be any real peace until everyone realizes who their true brothers are (like it or not!) and who's the culprit - the invading Brits. Seize all lands held by non-citizens if it has to be done through nationalization. Consider long and hard before you even allow foreigners long term leases. I'm not suggesting xenophobia; where would the US have been w/o massive early immigration? But Ireland hasn't so much extra land to spare in the first place, and I don't think it would be amiss to reserve land ownership for citizens. Considering the island's relative size, it might not hurt to make naturalized citizenship extra hard to earn, too.

• barneyjo | Mar 18, 2012, 08:09 PM EDT

  @seanomelb - Of course the beauty of the good friday agreement was that it succeeded in selling two separate propositions to two distinctive groups (Unionism & Natiionalism) at the same time. For Nationalists it holds out the hope that a United Ireland will stem from 50.1% of the population of Northern Ireland voting for that proposition. For Unionism, it guarantees that Northern Ireland will remain an integral part of the United Kingdom until a majority (50.1%) vote for re-unification. Based upon projections for birth rates, it is looking less likely ( but not impossible) that a majority in favour of re-unification will emerge. And even if that position were to be reached with a majority supporting re-unification, you would still have to deal with a sizeable and potentially uncontrollable rump of Unionism that would not accept the creation of a 32 county state on any terms. No, if its going to happen, it will have to be over time and by consensus with "buy-in " from a substantial Unionist majority (50.1% would be nowhere near enough - I would suggest 70% ) And I also believe that it will evolve through a series of processes, based along Federal lines in the first instance based on Regional assemblies in Belfast and Dublin, but increasingly with an All-Ireland dimension developing over time. If Portadown LOL District number One were to vote in support of re-unification, then you could start to talk in terms of "racing certainties" from that point on :)

• barneyjo | Mar 18, 2012, 08:04 PM EDT

  @seanomelb - Of course the beauty of the good friday agreement was that it succeeded in selling two separate propositions to two distinctive groups (Unionism & Natiionalism) at the same time. For Nationalists it holds out the hope that a United Ireland will stem from 50.1% of the population of Northern Ireland voting for that proposition. For Unionism, it guarantees that Northern Ireland will remain an integral part of the United Kingdom until a majority (50.1%) vote for re-unification. Based upon projections for birth rates, it is looking less likely ( but not impossible) that a majority in favour of re-unification will emerge. And even if that position were to be reached with a majority supporting re-unification, you would still have to deal with a sizeable and potentially uncontrollable rump of Unionism that would not accept the creation of a 32 county state on any terms. No, if its going to happen, it will have to be over time and by consensus with "buy-in " from a substantial Unionist majority (50.1% would be nowhere near enough - I would suggest 70% ) And I also believe that it will evolve through a series of processes, based along Federal lines in the first instance based on Regional assemblies in Belfast and Dublin, but increasingly with an All-Ireland dimension developing over time!!

• seanomelb | Mar 18, 2012, 06:48 PM EDT

  A United Ireland would benefit all Irish people politically and economically regardless of their religious beliefs. Sinn Fein has always used the mantra "Catholic Protestant and dissenter" in their quest for unity. It is now clear that Sinn Fein command support of over 35% of the people of all Ireland and could lead to a united Ireland sooner rather than later. It was a pleasure to read the discourses below with no personal attacks. Sparklet if 1 million unionist are in the minority in a plebiscite they will have to accept the will of the majority,it's called democracy. WE appear to be in a situation where all is possible how we have progressed in 10 years.

• barneyjo | Mar 18, 2012, 06:31 PM EDT

  @sparklet - Sirpeter is right about 50.1% voting for re-unification. I would take issue about the "when" and would venture to suggest that it will be "if" for a considerable time to come. The idea of the impact of china also has great merit in my view and it is for that reason that political pragmatism is breaking out in places where it would have been unheard of heretofore; these islands being a case in point. Shakespeare said it best; "misery acquaints a man with strange bedfellows" and so it would seem; but do not underestimate the determination of the vast majority of the Unionist people to hold on to their social/cultural/political birthright which is all wrapped up in the Union with England. They will only make up part of the 50.1% when they feel they have more reason to do so, in their own interests, rather than remain within the status quo. And the world will have turned quite considerably by that stage!!

• sirpeter | Mar 18, 2012, 06:07 PM EDT

  When 50.1 % vote for a REUNIFICATION of Ireland.They can keep their allegiance to Britain just like a West Brit in the Irish Republic.That will be that.They agreed to this in the GFA.China is going to be a massive economy in the next 30 years and we all have to pull together within Europe.

• Sparklet | Mar 18, 2012, 12:20 PM EDT

  Meanolgrouch, it's a pleasure to see someone with your opinion, actually voicing it in such a polite manner. But no-one still answers the main questions. What about the 1m unionists who don't want to be a part of the Republic, not all of them Protestant I might add. As brilliantly expressed a ways down by BarneyJo, it's not just a question of an occupying force leaving - it's about 1m Unionists switching allegiance.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 18, 2012, 12:08 PM EDT

  BTW, in the second post below, removing the pins from the crown's doll would depend on their physically vacating the occupied territories and returning their precious ancestral holdings to the rightful owners. The Irish will never have peace otherwise.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 18, 2012, 12:01 PM EDT

  Also, Barney, I'd stake my life on your being right about Collins and Craig. While they'd never be bosom buddies, they'd probably mutter mutual imprecations under their breath but still settle on a deal. That's what men of honor do. Politics would continue, to be sure, as it's usually just another form of war. But at least more Irish would live to see a brighter day until gradually things simmered down. My first and only college roomie and I fought each other like cats and dogs right out of the gate. Then one day somebody else did something mean to me, and she blasted the jerk for it. We realized our mutual dependence on one another and became fast friends. Years later she named her daughter after me. I named a character in a screenplay after her, and I swear it never bothered her that the girl was a hooker. We were friends but never stopped needling each other.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 18, 2012, 11:48 AM EDT

  Barney, I'm in your debt. If more folks could keep calm, everyone would benefit. BTW, friends just call me "Meany". Regardless of when my own rhetoric takes the bit, I'm every ready to lay down my end of the stick for a brother. Or you might say in this case, a cousin. Truly the only entity toward which I bear irreversible ill will is John Bull for setting brother against brother. And regardless of who resents being called a brother, that's what we are on such a small planet. I'd even take the pins out of the crown's doll provisionally if they'd stop promoting fratricide and raping the country every way possible. Want to know one reason the situation drives me to distraction? Because the same oligarch tactics are used by overlords everywhere - divide and conquer. The American GOP puppets do the same thing here in service to the 1% who control 98% of our resources. We stay at each other's throat just as heatedly over here. I deeply fear the time's coming soon when we might throw ourselves another civil war. Fundamentalist evangelicals think WWIII will break out in the Mideast. They should look a little closer to home.

• Sparklet | Mar 18, 2012, 10:54 AM EDT

  DaithiSuibhne - Fine by me. Over to you. How do you plan to achieve it?

• barneyjo | Mar 18, 2012, 09:10 AM EDT

  @Meanolgrouch - Many thanks for your courteous reply. In no way would I ever seek to impute your knowledge and understanding of Irish History, but I would re-iterate that I have been a part of that history for all of my (almost) 50 years of living here in several of the counties of Northern Ireland. For that reason, I am sure you will appreciate that the issues which you raise are not always so clear-cut. I agree absolutely with your analysis of the impact of Collins in the move to independence, and the real cost that this island had had to bear because of his premature death. I believe (maybe as you do) that there was at least the beginnings of a relationship based on pragmatism between Collins and James Craig, the Unionist Leader. If that had been allowed to develop it is likely (though by no means certain) that the worst of the awfulness of the last forty years could have been avoided; and we would have gotten to where we are now in our history so much sooner. As for De Valera, well I have to say that in light of my understanding of what he did (and did not do) I would not be one of his greatest fans. To his credit though he did (finally) acknowledge the role that Collins played when he said "History will judge the greatness of Michael Collins, and I fear it will by at my expense" And as you also adroitly point out, our peace process is not an end itself, but rather a means to something else. Last words to Seamus Heaney "hope for a great sea change on the far side of revenge, and believe that far shore is reachable from here"!!!!

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 17, 2012, 08:02 PM EDT

  MCCOLGAN1492, stay tuned for our own Occupy spring. Should be a good one. When you have dedicated pacifists ready to take up arms, there's a real hornet's nest.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 17, 2012, 07:58 PM EDT

  DaithiSuibhne, that sounds like a good idea. As someone else, a "real" Irishman said in effect lately, there's no harm in just meeting with granny. Let her know if there's any puckering up to be done, she'll have to be the one to do it.

• DaithiSuibhne | Mar 17, 2012, 07:53 PM EDT

  @Sparklet,Why don't we try to achieve a'United Ireland', North and South,first, before we kiss some Brits ass.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 17, 2012, 07:52 PM EDT

  Sorry, my other post seemed to be running overlong. No, I won't give you a stock answer about what to do with the million folks in the North who share no allegiance to the dream of a united and free Ireland. Don't leave. Stay and work together for a genuine and just peace. Then you might find a surprising number of yes, YOUR countrymen, who'd be eager to leave their weapons and join hands in brotherhood. Just don't ask them to accept unilateral disarmament or anything approaching it, or to kiss John Bull's ring, because history itself has taught them better. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 17, 2012, 07:38 PM EDT

  Barney, your comments are much appreciated regardless of whether I agree or not. I wandered onto IC while preparing to research family history and fell into the news&comments by happy accident. At the same time I'm hardly unfamiliar with Irish history, springing as I do from a straight family line that includes recent forbears (now deceased) who escaped one jump ahead of John Bull by way of Wales for a little identity change on their journey. Believe it, they pumped me full of true stories about the Troubles and even earlier. But never fear, if I come visiting at last it won't be to stay or vote. No promises about anything else, though. What a shame Michael Collins was assassinated. He did not "settle for less than victory" as some love to claim. He gained a strong foothold against the Brits, more than anyone else could've at the time, and would've continued to press the issue given breath to do so and a little more support at home. Ireland killed its own hero. Not an uncommon fate anywhere, I realize, and one to which all nations must plead guilty. But it still stinks. De Valera knew he was sending Collins on an impossible mission - why didn't he go himself if he was so hot? Now, today, I think a lot of Gerry Adams and will continue to pray for him daily if nobody minds. Maybe he has room to preach or rap my knuckles, but not too many others do.

• MCCOLGAN1492 | Mar 17, 2012, 07:15 PM EDT

  @barneyjo- you are right, it is your country, your island and your culture. Problem or Virtue of most of US,we view anyone who claims "special status" due to birth right to be an a------! That is in our DNA, for two centries as you mention, irregardless of where our immigrant relatives came from. That being said, thank god the Native Americans don't have nuclear weapons.....

• barneyjo | Mar 17, 2012, 06:55 PM EDT

  @Meanolgrouch - with respect you are looking at Irish/ English Relations from the perspective of your own country which is just over two cenuries old. The issues between England and Ireland stretch back further, almost three times further. Ireland was one of the first foreign conquests of England. The English psyche has become interwoven with the Irish over the course of many centuries. What I think you and many more of your fellow country men fail to appreciate is that its simply not a question of withdrawal by an occupying power. In the six counties that make up Northern Ireland there are upwards of one million people who share neither your view or your aspirations for a united Soverign Ireland. Their allegiance is to the crown of England, yet they claim the soil of Ulster as part of their birthright. The one question that NO posters from the US have ever provided a sensible answer to is "how do you assimililate upwards of one million Unionists into something which they have no allegiance to?" The stock answer coming from Irish America is "if they dont like it they can leave" I am reminded of the words of the Unionist Leader David Ervine, the son of many generations of Ulster Protestants who said once "I AM a part of the British presence in Ireland, and I am not going away you know!!"

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 17, 2012, 05:14 PM EDT

  groucho - Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan? don't you remember that force was tried, and failed...Maybe best to leave matters in the hands of the people of Ireland...that's the island btw...two separate parts...who may come together...keep your big stick to yourself, it's got you into enough trouble lately...

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 17, 2012, 05:07 PM EDT

  ginnty - There is a constitutional process for unity...it gives the citizens in each jurisdiction the final word...not you or anyone else...not matter what rubbish you spout!!

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 17, 2012, 03:02 PM EDT

  mamaginnty, forgive me for quoting a Brit, but do you think Lizzy the Hun might someday agree with Paul McCartney's banned song and "Give Ireland Back to the Irish" ?? For what my words might or might not be worth, I'd prefer the pleasure of seeing the invaders tossed out on their deaf ears, but that's just me. I'm really trying to mellow to please Tommy Sands and Pete Seeger. Love those two to pieces. But change usually comes slow and hard. And I never give a free pass to anyone, especially not a fellow American, who scorns the use of force when diplomacy fails. We didn't politely ask the crown to cease and desist in 1776 and for the life of me, I can't figure out why you should be any more polite should the Brits maintain their present course much longer. As Theodore Roosevelt suggested, walk softly and carry a big stick.

• mamaginnty | Mar 17, 2012, 10:37 AM EDT

  We will have our island whole again within the next decade no matter what dribble and hatred is spouted on this site. If Mc Guinness meets the Queen of Britain so what, she is only a figure head that is costing the brits a fortune, Irish central really knows how to stir it up as far as bigotry goes.

• antoman | Mar 17, 2012, 10:05 AM EDT

  As we say in Cork. Towntroll is 'badly rattled'. Hee hee hee.

• Towngate | Mar 17, 2012, 09:00 AM EDT

  Gee,Whizz! and Golly-gosh! ~ How very gratifying to see the 'usual suspects' with their quills a-quiver attacking the dauntless town gate bastion! They have obviousy trawled the IC Archive and realised he has never made a pronouncement, historical assessment or political prediction that was not found to be accurate. So, keep 'tilting at Windmills',lads, and carry on the childish name-calling, if that is the best you can do! ~~~ Bythe way,Bythebay and DanOL... ~ yer bloods worth bottlin'! And bythebytheway: Dauntless O'Dowd - the Founder/owner of this site, is a Naturalised AMERICAN! ... so Sláinte, God Save the Queen,and Hail to the Chief!,say I.!

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 17, 2012, 05:48 AM EDT

  Meeting any Head of State, esp of a friendly neighbour, should not be an occasion to 'retch'...one doesn't need to be an ardent monarchist, which I am not, to admire the work ethic and interpersonal skills of this particular queen...just recall all the controversy and even scandals around many many elected and appointed Heads of State across the world, in the last 60 years...and then count how many she has had...you don't have to bend any knee...just give credit where it's due...

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 17, 2012, 05:40 AM EDT

  seanomelb - what part of 'why not now' can you not answer?

• seanomelb | Mar 16, 2012, 07:18 PM EDT

  Dan I did not say McGuinness should not meet the queen what part of "yet" do you not understand.

• seanomelb | Mar 16, 2012, 07:16 PM EDT

  bytheway has just dispensed with two of the four cardinal points of the compass. Towngate once stated on IC that Patrick Pearse was a fascist racist and claimed he (Towngate)was a Dubliner. The maudlin knee bending for the monarchy by some posters would make one retch.

• antoman | Mar 16, 2012, 04:03 PM EDT

  @ Sirpeter- Take consolation in the knowledge that towntroll has to log into a website owned by an Irishman before leaving a comment. :)

• Sparklet | Mar 16, 2012, 03:20 PM EDT

  Oldboreen - the border is already pretty irrelevant. I've never had to show my passport yet, when travelling between the Republic and the UK. Bythebay - the Republic wasn't responsible for the deaths of Mountbatten - who, incidentally, supported the aim of a united Ireland. That was a real own goal by the IRA - murdering a man of nearly 80 who agreed with their aims, an old woman, and two children.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 16, 2012, 01:30 PM EDT

  BTW, as a new IC member following early retirement, I sense a certain level of resentment from some folks regarding Irish-Americans pushing their long noses into Ireland's business. While I understand, since I am individually a strong anti-imperialist, it's unwise to let that emotion push yourself over the cliff into xenophobia. At least Irish-Americans CARE. I see some of you complaining about too many supposedly "real" Irish having grown complacent. Make up your mind what you want. We all must share a shrinking planet and I don't think Michael Collins would've turned up his nose at American support. Come to think of it, he did quite well during his visit here. Rather well by some of my relatives, one of whom contributed massive sums to the cause throughout his long life, God rest him. Some of us sang this little ditty while skipping rope: "Up the long ladder, down the short rope; to hell with King Billy and God save the Pope." You shouldn't forget that Collins himself wanted matters settled peacefully whenever possible. When he acknowledged that he had signed his own death warrant, that sacrificial act alone should grant him sainthood.

• Meanolgrouch | Mar 16, 2012, 12:55 PM EDT

  sirpeter may be my NBF whether he's knows it and approves or not. Meow. I'll never again be able even to think the word McGuiness w/o kneecaps on the side.

• sirpeter | Mar 16, 2012, 10:37 AM EDT

  Poor Creakygate can't stand his beloved Lizzy the Hun having a chat and a cup of tea with the Commander of the IRA.Blighty friendless in Europe.Wee Scotland doing a William Wallace aye.Poor Grandma having to bow before our glorious patriots of 1916 and now a cup of tea with Mortin "hold on to your kneecaps"McGuinness.

• IrelandNorth | Mar 16, 2012, 09:21 AM EDT

  I trust she'll be returning the title deeds to the six counties that her nominal predecessor (Ban Rion Eilis a h'AOn) purloined five centuries ago. The writing is on the wall, Billy Boys on line! A reunited Ireland is happening. Get with the frickin' programme. Kilroy woz 'ere!

• oldboreen | Mar 16, 2012, 07:09 AM EDT

  Should Ireland, while remaining a totally sovereign state, apply for admittance to the British Commonwealth of Nations-thus making the border virtually irrelevant and bringing the reality of a united Ireland closer? One step at a time-but what a massive step that would be!

• Seanmor | Mar 15, 2012, 08:09 PM EDT

  I fully agree that McGuinness should meet the Queen of England when she visits the North of Ireland. At least the Sinn Féin leader will understand the queen (or anyone else)who speaks th Irish language, but such would NOT be the case with many Southdrn politicians. Let us also bear in mind that it would iiimprove relations between the British gov't and the vast majority of the Irish people if the queen allowed the North's 2nd ladgest city to be offically called Derry - and delete its objectionable prefix.

• DanOLoingsigh | Mar 15, 2012, 07:47 PM EDT

  seanomelb - you say he should not meet QE2, but not why?

• seanomelb | Mar 15, 2012, 06:37 PM EDT

  I do not believe Martin should meet the Queen yet.What amuses me is the anti republican posters castigating McGuinness for been a good little freestater,they are so spiteful they cannot write a rational piece.

• barneyjo | Mar 15, 2012, 05:18 PM EDT

  @Daithi - Ah no!! If you're going to throw up, at least let it be for something worthwhile; like when Eilis a dho follows in the footsteps of Queen Victoria and visits the lakes of Killarney for example. A nice picture of her looking out from Ladies View should do the trick :)

• Towngate | Mar 15, 2012, 05:17 PM EDT

  Its a bit late for the clown McGunnless to say he'll be a good boy from now on. Yer boat has sailed, so it has! Your Irish election result told you that! so it did! Ireland will only ever be re-united under the Union Flag ~ and ever sensible person knows that. So they do!

• merefalow | Mar 15, 2012, 04:19 PM EDT

  beware of greeks,b g.

• Sparklet | Mar 15, 2012, 04:14 PM EDT

  DaithiSuibhne - why not make a constructive comment by answering my question.

• DaithiSuibhne | Mar 15, 2012, 03:50 PM EDT

  Is it'McGuinness' or 'McQuisling' I'm afraid I can't tell them apart? I'll comment further after I throw up.

• Sparklet | Mar 15, 2012, 02:08 PM EDT

  If a United Ireland is to be achieved, what's the best way of going about it? By murdering innocent people, or by establishing a good relationship between Ireland and England?

• pilib04 | Mar 15, 2012, 12:46 PM EDT

  This is a decision for Sinn Fein to make. However, I think that the Sinn Fein Co-First Minister should meet with Elizabeth Saxe Coburg and Gotha, as McGuinness says, because he represents all of the people of Northern Ireland, Catholic, Protestant and Dissenter.