Sometimes journalists here in Ireland are reminded that they are also human beings. Eight weeks ago we were blessed with a beautiful baby girl, our first child.
So when I read the tragic story about Savita Halappanavar my first reaction was human: A feeling of compassion and sadness that any family could so quickly go from the joy of expecting a child to the ashen grief of losing both mother and child. It is a transition too brutal for words.
As well as being human, I am also a radio presenter. In that capacity, another transition struck me: The transition from the feelings of sadness and shock that all of us felt on hearing the story to the reaction that some – those who appeared to know much more about the story than the rest of us – felt of righteous indignation, zeal and anger: According to that reaction, this was not just the death of a woman: This was a call to arms to legalise abortion right now.
Now while I do not necessarily share it myself, as a broadcaster I see and facilitate debate on the case for changing Ireland’s constitutional protection of unborn life. But I was deeply disturbed last week by the suddenness with which sensitive consideration of the facts of Savita’s death was swept aside in favour of a prejudicial and politically motivated narrative.
The facts are this: The coroner’s report into Savita’s death showed that she died in Galway’s University Hospital of Septicaemia about four weeks ago (why it took this long to report the death is unclear). She was pregnant at the time of the illness and Savita’s husband says the family had asked for an abortion only to be told – by whom is not clear – that “This is a catholic country” and that an abortion was therefore illegal even though, in this case, the unborn child was going to die anyway.
Read more news on Savita Halappanavar's case here
Allegedly – and that word must be stressed – the hospital waited until the baby’s heart had stopped beating before emptying Savita’s womb some days after which she died.
Reflected in news headlines like “Woman ‘denied a termination’ dies in hospital” – the assumption was relayed around the world that Savita was killed because she was denied an abortion by Ireland’s pro life legal regime. If only we Irish were not so “cruel” she might still be alive, so the narrative goes. Indians were also reported to be outraged at how one of their citizens died at the hands of Ireland’s “barbaric” laws.
Had Savita died for want of an abortion, those conclusions might be justified. But to paraphrase a saying about the media - that bad news has travelled around the world before good news has got its boots on - half baked assumptions and misperceptions can travel around the world twice before the facts have even gotten out of the shower.
And the facts are that – as Health Minister James Reilly stated last week - there is “no evidence” that Ireland’s “Catholic ethos”, laws or medical practice killed Savita. Whether medical practice was followed is another story. Until a report is completed, we do not know. But as consultant gynaecologist Dr. John Monaghan confirmed in my studio on Wednesday 14th November last, neither Irish law nor Irish “Catholic ethos” lets the life of an unborn child stand in the way of any intervention needed to save a mother’s life and unborn children have been removed from their mothers to save the mother’s life in Irish hospitals.
Some days ago Dr. Hema Divakar, President of the Indian Federation of Obstetric and Gynaecological societies of India told the Hindu Times: “Based on information in the media, in that situation of septicaemia, if the doctors had meddled with the live baby, Savita would have died two days earlier,” adding further that, “Delay or refusal to terminate the pregnancy does not in itself seem to be the cause of death”.
Read more news on Savita Halappanavar's case here
Instead of reporting this, the media has presented Ireland as a Frankenstein using emotive language in a way that risks stoking Irish-Indian enmity. But just as the gendercide of 50,000 baby girls in India each year is no reflection on India or Indians, what happened to Savita is no reflection on the catholic ethos of Ireland or the Irish.
But some people have seen their chance to establish – or re-inforce – a narrative and have taken it. Tweeted and blogged around the world in an instant, the perception of Ireland as “barbaric” “medieval” and “cruel” has entrenched itself in the minds of many.
The facts – it seems – do not matter. But the facts are getting more and more interesting: On Sunday the Sunday Independent – a paper to which I contribute – reported that pro-abortion campaigners had known of the case in advance. The suddenness and highly organised nature of the protests that followed the breaking news was remarkable. So was the “coincidence” that the story was broken on the same day a sensitive report on abortion was presented to government.
To paraphrase the words of William Butler Yeats, this is a case in which the most informed have lacked conviction, while the least informed and most ideologically driven seem to be full of passionate intensity. Having just passed a referendum to protect the rights of of children, it is too soon to conclude that they should be taken from unborn children.
As a broadcaster I recognise that there is a case to be made for legalising abortion in Ireland. There is also a case for preserving the right to life of the unborn child. Those wishing to advance the former view should not use the tragic death of Savita to advance their cause until the full facts are known. A final point must be made: Many of the references made to “Irish Catholicism” in the last few days appear to reflect a prejudicial knee jerk hatred that will use any excuse to express itself.
Were deaths in Israel and Gaza to be attributed to “Judaism” or “Islam” the result would quite rightly to invoke incitement to hatred laws against those doing so. Exploiting human suffering to peddle anti-religious prejudice is unacceptable and responsible media must have nothing to do with it.
*Marc Coleman is a broadcaster, columnist and author and is writing in a personal capacity.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.breandan | Nov 24, 2012, 09:13 AM EST
Oh, Thomas84, once the Christian churches are all pulled down you'll be able to see the mosques more clearly. Enjoy your freedom under that religion.
Thomas84 | Nov 23, 2012, 03:40 AM EST
I dream of a day when the last christian dies of old age in this country .... When we can pull the churches down and replace them with libraries full of real knowledge. When we can stop basing laws that govern people on some childish ridiculas bronze age magic fairy tale story. When logic and reason over take fear and ignorance. I doubt i will live to see this day, but hopefully my kids will. The dawning of civilisation and the dispelling of the god worshiping frauds.
eiriamach | Nov 22, 2012, 08:38 AM EST
Savita's death IS being used to advance an agenda-- not the agenda of pro-choice groups but the agenda of anti-abortion groups. According to IrishTimes.com writer Ronan McGreevy, "The Life Institute, an anti-abortion group, has said its supporters have made in the region of 56,000 phone calls to Fine Gael TDs since the summer with some getting 10 phone calls a day." This group has informed the TDs that "they are being specifically targeted in a lobbying campaign by a 'small web-based entity known as the Life Institute.'" Government officials are under threat: Is this why the Taoiseach is waiting, delaying further after a 20-year delay, and not moving forward with legislation to protect the lives of pregnant women?
EmRyanIrish | Nov 21, 2012, 07:52 PM EST
'advance the pro abortion agenda' ?? Firstly the government work For US and WE have told them to bring in legislation in the Limited circumstances where a mothers life is at risk, they have FAILED to do so, be it because of laziness cowardice or religious influence or some other reason. They speak now of 'hasty' actions or decisions i think 20 years consideration is anything but hasty!! Women are dying, or being forced to travel for HEALTHCARE the hospitals here are perfectly capable of providing this care if either they were legally allowed or wanted to based upon personal religious/moral beliefs. Why should women be forced to continue a pregnancy they do not wish to have? If you do not agree with abortion dont have one, DO NOT make me live by Your beliefs. I resent the fact that if i Needed or wanted an abortion i may have to travel, or be unable to travel due to health/medical reasons and be stuck in an Irish hospital in pain/distress begging to be helped.
mreinhar2001 | Nov 21, 2012, 03:22 PM EST
allisann: Do not forget that we as public co not have all the facts of the case. The Principal of Double Effect would certainly have been applicable in this case, so blaming organized religion is a personal issue rather than a fact that indicates why the poor woman died. As EamonnDublin has said on many an occasion, we as readers should wait and let the inquiry do its work.
ciaradexy | Nov 21, 2012, 12:04 PM EST
Pinkdaylily, agreed! I work in a histopathology lab in a maternity hospital and I see women who are miscarrying left in agony because there is a foetal heart beat. Crazy.
pinkdaylily | Nov 21, 2012, 11:58 AM EST
Men would never allow women to make health decisions for them.. so why this hypocrisy? Men do not become pregnant and rarely own up to being responsible if an unwanted pregnancy occurs, why should they control the decision.. so highminded.. and to have the likes of a male FOX idiot be part of this discussion is further insult. As an RN who has seen first hand horrible and needless maternal deaths sacrificed is outrageous. Women should have the right to control their health and contraception choice. They are healthier and better mothers for the likes of the choice.
ciaradexy | Nov 21, 2012, 11:44 AM EST
'pro-lifers' really need to change their names to anti choicers or pro-unborn because they are anti-woman and once born, they really couldnt care less about it. 6000 kids in care and their concern is for the unborn. Hmmm priorities are just not right.
ciaradexy | Nov 21, 2012, 11:41 AM EST
Its time to provide abortion for those who want or need them. Those who do not want or need them dont have to.
anglo-norman | Nov 21, 2012, 11:32 AM EST
Please define your terms before you post EamonnDublin..
iriishgirl | Nov 21, 2012, 09:39 AM EST
Alisaann - was the baby dying? Or was the mother's body just in early labor (which can sometimes be stopped) - big difference medically. How do you know the fact to not proceed with an abortion was religiouly based? Perhaps it was medically based. I am so tired of pro-choicers using this tradgedy to push their opinions. I wonder what this poor woman would have thought of thousands of innocent children possibly dying in Ireland in the future due to her tragic end, should the pro-choice movement continue to use her case erronously and without the medical facts.
EamonnDublin | Nov 21, 2012, 05:36 AM EST
No, "anglo-norman", of course I wasn't in attendance in the Galway hospital. But you see, Tommy, it is YOU who used the word "stupidity" - that "resulted in the death of a young mother". I have asked that we wait for the result of the Inquiry, I have claimed neither "stupidity" or the lack of stupidity being the cause of the death. I do not claim to know the cause of death. You, on the other hand, imply that you know the facts. P.S. Should I call you "father"?
anglo-norman | Nov 20, 2012, 11:11 PM EST
were you EamonnDublin? You know exactly what I mean son..
alisaann | Nov 20, 2012, 10:23 PM EST
imo, a mother's life should be MORE important then that of a fetus....if the mother LIVES, she may be able to have MORE children....this is the PROBLEM WITH RELIGION CONTROLLING the lives of people. this woman DIED because the doctors were MORE concerned about RELIGION then the life of the mother...the baby was DYING for GOD';S SAKES. alisa
Gearoid4 | Nov 20, 2012, 06:14 PM EST
So why do we have need for a revised or new law concerning abortion "rights" if doctors in the Rep.of Ireland are ready legally enabled to intervene to save the life of a mother, even though it may unintentionally lead to the death of the unborn child? It leaves me with the impression that the current campaign is being driven by pro-abort ideological forces who ignore the contemporary reality of the expert level of Irish obstetrics and gynaecology. What we need is for this case to be thoroughly investigated and the painful lessons learnt without opening the door to abortion-on-demand which will surely follow.
EamonnDublin | Nov 20, 2012, 06:11 PM EST
"Anglo-Norman" - And what "act of stupidity" would that be then, that resulted in the tragic death of the Indian lady? There appears to have been an awful lot of know-alls who were actually in attendance during the crisis - were you one of them?
lcobryan | Nov 20, 2012, 05:33 PM EST
As an Irish American who believes unequivocally that a woman has dominion over her own body, when Dr. Halappanava asked for termination, the procedure should have been provided. The law in Ireland needs to be changed to be in line with the Eurozone just as the craziness across US States needs to come under the Federal umbrella. Yours in full support of Roe v Wade
Bocktherobber | Nov 20, 2012, 04:55 PM EST
Mairint -- Under Irish law, if the mother's life is at risk, it is legal to terminate a pregnancy. Are you aware of that fact?
anglo-norman | Nov 20, 2012, 04:35 PM EST
My word if Irish catholics can't see through this latest act of stupidity that has resulted in the death of a young mother then nothing will...
mairint | Nov 20, 2012, 04:33 PM EST
Marc, are you actually saying - in the end - that you are ok with abortion of some babies? Now, which babies are you talking about? The inconvenient ones? Your article was so good but for that bit you left sort of hanging in the air. I wish you and your wife and baby daughter the very best of happiness. Life is so beautiful, especially in the form of an innocent little baby, perfection, and so dependent on her mother and father for every little bit of care....but how our hearts swell with love when we gaze on them.
Bocktherobber | Nov 20, 2012, 03:58 PM EST
Katiemac -- You're probably familiar with the 1992 Supreme Court judgement which stated that abortion is legal in Ireland if necessary to save a mother's life? Would you be opposed to that?
Gearoid4 | Nov 20, 2012, 03:51 PM EST
@Culchiewoman, Until we know the full facts of this tragic case, we cannot go around casting aspersions on the reputations of the medical staff or anyone else involved. It is a fact that Ireland has one of the lowest mortality rates in the world for pregnant women and their unborn children. We know that the current situation is being exploited by pro-abort elements who want to broaden out the remit of any upcoming legislative act to cover abortion-on-demand. Anyone doubting this scenario, should observe the situations as they have developed in the US and UK over the last 40 years.
katiemac | Nov 20, 2012, 03:40 PM EST
Is Savita's death being used to advance a pro-abortion agenda in Ireland? Yes.
culchiewoman | Nov 20, 2012, 03:10 PM EST
@Gearoid4: "pro-life ethos of Ireland" *SNORT* Now, there's a porkie (and an oxymoron) if I ever saw one!
handsome68 | Nov 20, 2012, 03:08 PM EST
Having just read this article, I fancy myself a latter-day Diogenes who has finally stumbled upon an honest man. In this case, I see before me a writer who has researched his or her subject, has thought about and attempted to depict both sides of an argument. Bravo, bravo! Take another bow, also since such meaty and tasteful writing is trebly powerful in an era very near to dying from the nearly constant dearth of same. Brave! Bravo!
Bocktherobber | Nov 20, 2012, 03:06 PM EST
I have an agenda. I'll admit it. My agenda is to make the Irish government do what the Supreme Court instructed it to do twenty years ago, as follows. Legislate in accordance with our constitution for abortion in cases where mothers' lives are in danger. Would anyone like to tell me this is not what the Supreme Court found? If you do, you'll be telling porkies.
Jimsales74 | Nov 20, 2012, 02:51 PM EST
WondedKnee: First the church in 1966 was quite different than the kinder-gentler church we have today. Maybe you're too young to know that. Second, the bishop did, in fact, excommunicate my father--right there in the hospital-- because of his choice; which meant terminating the fetus, and he told my father, in no uncertain terms, that the baby's life was more important. Those are the facts. How dare you call me a liar!
Gearoid4 | Nov 20, 2012, 02:42 PM EST
This article is a great, level-headed rejoinder to the deafening din coming from the pro-abort lobbies who are synchronizing their cynical campaigns around the world to force the Rep. of Ireland into complying with their legislative demands. Let us hope that the current pro-life ethos of Ireland remains and that surgical intervention is only required in cases where the mothers and/or the fetus/embryo's life is in danger. Unfortunately at times, the fetus/embryo may be lost in such a scenario to ensure that the mother's life is saved. The Catholic Church puts equal value on the two lives that are so closely intertwined during a pregnancy.
mreinhar2001 | Nov 20, 2012, 02:29 PM EST
Good job, Marc!
WoundedKnee | Nov 20, 2012, 02:28 PM EST
Jimsales74 --If the Bishop truly said that only the fetus mattered then he wasn't articulating Catholic teaching. But maybe you're not telling the truth?
mreinhar2001 | Nov 20, 2012, 02:27 PM EST
Interesting and very sad. I apprecaite the way the journalists for Irish Central are being much more careful about dividing opinion and fact in their reporting this week.
WoundedKnee | Nov 20, 2012, 02:26 PM EST
Eschetic--"Christ, as depicted in the Bible". Listen, buddy, we don't need your Bible thumping here.
Jimsales74 | Nov 20, 2012, 02:00 PM EST
Spin much? The way this reads, the woman died of septicemia as if it's a separate issue and had nothing to do with the fetus. But any responsible and OBJECTIVE journalist should then have asked whether the miscarriage caused the septicaemia or the septicaemia the miscarriage, or if the infection was a separate issue, which is possible, but the odds are very low. If a woman develops an infection in her womb, it can cause a miscarriage. The infection stimulates contractions and the waters break. In that case it can be imperative to remove the contents of the womb by inducing delivery of the non-viable fetus to protect the mother. Back in the '60's, my mother was in a Catholic hospital here in NY. She already had 5 kids and was carrying a 6th, Bottom line: My Father was given the choice to either try to save his wife (and mother of his 5 children), which required that they terminate the pregnancy, or they could try to save the 'baby.' But if they tried that, odds were slim for the "baby" and they would probably lose both. A Bishop was called in. He told my Father that only the fetus mattered. My Father disagreed. The fetus was lost, my Mother was saved, my Father was excommunicated. I'm just glad that there was a choice. So I guess that makes my father pro-abortion. To my way of thinking he made a Pro-life decision for his family. And I submit that no one had any right to butt in. Especially unmarried, and childless (well, mostly), men, whose opinions are based on their interpretation of a 6,000 year old book. Bottom line: These decisions are complex and deeply personal, while people should be encouraged to council with those closest to them, and weigh the decision they will have to live with, one way or the other, carefully, no one ultimately has the right to make it for them--nobody.
Eschetic | Nov 20, 2012, 01:19 PM EST
Bravo to those who are pointing out that it is not only natural but right that the tragic death of Savita Halappanava be the basis for a positive change in the laws of Ireland. The only GENUINE "Pro-Life" position is not anti-abortion but pro-choice. Even the TRADITIONAL church position agrees with the current standard of access to abortion (during the first trimester before the ganglia of the brain start to form - the "quickening"). It is only the superstitious bias of those who want to push the radical agenda of life beginning at conception (or before) rather than the mere *potential* for life who want to maintain the conditions which led to this woman's death - and that position Christ, as depicted in the Bible, would NEVER have condoned.
WoundedKnee | Nov 20, 2012, 01:13 PM EST
Good to see Mark Coleman writing here. I heard his radio show in Ireland a while back, way to go.
eiriamach | Nov 20, 2012, 01:00 PM EST
Nonsense, Colman! Pro-choice critics would urge precisely the same arguments even if all Catholics suddenly went silent on the matter. If you examine these arguments dispassionately (without your own "prejudice" and "political motivation"), you will find a concept of justice motivating them, secular justice for women, which also happens to be justice from a Christian perspective. The question you should be asking is "How can any Christian oppose moral autonomy for women?" As I wrote in response to one such person, "No doubt there are many blogs on which you can voice your opinion on Indian atrocities and criticisms of the Catholic Church, but this particular set of articles is not about that. I will not apologize for caring deeply, as many women do, about the legal disadvantages of women under Irish law. You seem unable to deal with the fact that such disadvantages exist." So you try, duplicitously, to shift discussion to anti-Catholicism. Savita's case is not about Catholicism pro or con. It's about the human rights of women! Why can't you deal with that?
CelticCail | Nov 20, 2012, 12:07 PM EST
There is no such thing as "pro-abortion" and the term is as stupid and annoying to us pro-choicers as I'm sure people calling you an "anti-choicer" instead of "pro-life" is to you. This entire article loses its validity due to the derogatory title.
eiriamach | Nov 20, 2012, 11:53 AM EST
And important information from culchiewoman, very well presented!
eiriamach | Nov 20, 2012, 11:44 AM EST
Well said, Tom Swinford, thank you!
eiriamach | Nov 20, 2012, 11:32 AM EST
The headline of this article is pro-stupid. As Vincent Browne said on his Irish TV programme, "No one is pro-abortion." To say otherwise is to redefine stupid. Abortion is never a happy decision. I believe that, without exception, it is wrenching and painful but sometimes necessary. What is far more repugnant to me is that we men - and we are mostly men - presume to exercise complete control over womens' bodies and womens' plumbing. In so doing we deny women that most basic of all human rights, the right of ownership of her own body. This is an insidious form of slavery. We must accept that women are capable of making rational decisions - they have been doing very well at this throughout human history, far better, I would argue than men. Is it more desirable to have between 30,000 and 40,000 babies die every single day day because they are not wanted or cannot be cared for? To the zealots it is. Down through the generations women have been denied many basic human rights. It is time to fix this. The world's population is in no danger of diminishing. Over population is one of the greatest challenges we face.
howareya | Nov 20, 2012, 11:30 AM EST
Culchiewoman....I do have a uterus so I do have a dog in this fight. I became pregnant 40 years ago in an inopportune time. There was no question...I gave birth to a beautiful baby girl who has recently given me a beautiful grandson! So I know of what I speak! And if you think the pro-abortion groups are not using this sad situation for their benefit you are naive. As I have said numerous times and is stated in this article...the Catholic Church allows termination of the pregnancy if the mother's life is in danger. And hello, Portia! I see you have your usual vitriolic statements on the subject. Praying for you, dear.
EamonnDublin | Nov 20, 2012, 10:56 AM EST
"culchiewoman" - My God!!! That really IS some venom. I trust you feel much better now. If you are blowing into Dublin for a day trip any time in the future, will you please be good enough to let me know - I think I might go to Langton's in Kilkenny for lunch. Ooops, you are NOT from around there are you - just in case!
magus27 | Nov 20, 2012, 10:47 AM EST
That is a given that they would use this incident to try and bring in the abortion law. It wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t help to create the circumstances of this young girl’s death so that there could be this very reaction into play! Problem, Reaction, Solution! Better known as the Heligan Dialectic! They create the problem, await public reaction and offer the solution that they always intended us to swallow!
blackstone | Nov 20, 2012, 10:28 AM EST
Thank you Marc Coleman for your balanced honest approach to this very sad story. The exploitation by pro abortion advocates regarding this tragedy is sickening. In NYC a huge rally was held at Barnard College condemning this woman's doctors with no regard to the actual facts, par for the course for all the Universities in the U.S where it's all about a pro abortion, anti family, anti religious agenda. There is no freedom of speech tolerated on U.S. campuses, just progressive poison.
iriishgirl | Nov 20, 2012, 10:22 AM EST
What people need to realize is that sadly women all over the world still die during childbirth – sometimes even in the best hospitals in the world – I have seen it. Uterine rupture, blood clots, DIC – and yes sepsis (plus tons of other reasons!!) - these are indiscriminant and horrible situations – effecting people of all socioeconomic status’ and races. The women die in pain and fear – and there is little even the best physician in the world can do for it. Physicians are not miracle workers. Unfortunately people don’t realize this and don’t seem to be educating themselves on this fact. If you decide to become pregnant and carry a child – yes – you might actually die. I knew it before delivering both of mine and guess what – I feel lucky every day to be alive after it – because as I KNOW what can happen with pregnancies. So everyone who is pushing their pro-abortion agenda – it does not fit with this situation. As I said above – abortion does NOT cure sepsis! Women all over the world die after abortions by the way – one of the main reasons is actually post-surgical sepsis. Once again – sometimes just a horrible luck of the draw - the pregnancy process itself or the termination can kill women either way. So I would never see the option for an abortion as saving a life in any way shape or form (especially for the innocent unborn). I mean seriously people , and I say this all the time , birth-control (all types) are readily available out there and if you don’t want a pregnancy – don’t do something that would get you pregnant – use prevention before you need to go under the knife and kill an innocent heartbeat. A little prevention goes a long way.
iriishgirl | Nov 20, 2012, 10:13 AM EST
This whole thing is an unfortunate situation, and a tragedy for Savita’s family. A young woman has been lost, a husband widowed, and doctors who are probably wonderful health care providers are now being touted as murderers (ridiculous). However, as has been mentioned by others in other posts – it was not the pre-term labor that killed Savita – it was the sepsis. Had the sepsis been treated aggressively (with the exact antibiotic needed for the exact microbe – and this can take 48 hours for cultures to determine) – and maybe it was - perhaps she would not have died. On the other hand, as none of us have the medical chart in front of us - maybe even antibiotics might not have saved her. Sepsis can be acute, rapid and fatal - as in this case. In addition, pre-term labor can sometimes be stopped and both the mother and child’s lives can be saved. Removing the live child may also not have saved her – and the surgery itself might have killed her. Unfortunately pro-choice advocates and anti-Catholics are using this as an excuse to push their agenda and make Ireland look like some kind of a cruel “out of date” country that should join the ranks of the rest of the world and end innocent lives at the drop of a hat. I worked on a maternity floor for 10 years and one thing I have to say to those people is - abortions do not cure sepsis. On another note – when you decide to live in a country you may want to educate yourself on their practices/laws such as abortion, euthanasia ect. Not that you have to agree with the practices/laws, but you may be forced to live by them. I have made decisions on where to live based on several health care options – and I don’t expect a country, state, town or province to change their laws to suit my personal opinions. And I don’t mean to sound cruel to Savita’s family in regards to their choice to live in Ireland – I just think it is important to consider medically related practices and laws that might affect your family.
iriishgirl | Nov 20, 2012, 10:11 AM EST
Great job Marc.
stanchaz | Nov 20, 2012, 10:06 AM EST
My God! Advance an agenda? ...or simply trying to SAVE WOMEN"S LIVES? THAT"S the "agenda"!
Towngate | Nov 20, 2012, 09:59 AM EST
UTTERLY BRILLIANT, MARC! All aspects covered with a cool and intelligent head. ~ especially the cynical timing of the 'rent-a-mob' with their questionable agenda.
culchiewoman | Nov 20, 2012, 09:57 AM EST
To Mr. Coleman and others of the male persuasion: until you suddenly grow a uterus and have a dog in the fight, I would politely suggest you keep your opinions to yourself. It is exactly this type of male-driven nonsense which continues to permit women to die. It certainly makes sense to connect the dotted lines from Sarita's unnecessary and tragic death to the cause for choice and equal protection under the law for women. Ireland has woefully and epically failed to honour women as anything other than procreative "ovens" and slavemates to their husbands. But to callously imply that those who believe in a woman's right to choose are incapable of feeling deep sorrow and empathy for the loss of a young woman and instead only use it for ' politically motivated narrative' is just inane and yet another example of that male-driven ethos that would keep us barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen. And for EamonnDublin, it might interest you to have a look at archival infant and mother mortality rates at mother-and-baby homes in Ireland in the 1950's versus the general populace. Sure, even then Ireland had an enviable childbirth safety rate -- as long as you were the 'right' sort of child or mother. But in the mother-and-baby homes, the mortality rate was four times the national average. So much for "pro-life", eh? And funny you should choose the word "assault" when literally thousands of women and children suffered exactly that at the hands of the Catholic Church, and so many were given no platform to name or prosecute their abusers. But do go on, continue to apologise for them rather than instituting any type of reform or critically looking at the stranglehold Catholic doctrine has had on the people of Ireland, most particularly its women and the control of their own bodies. People have had enough of this sham -- and you wonder at the vitriol?
thetint | Nov 20, 2012, 09:51 AM EST
I don’t know why Colman is quoting Reilly – the most incompetent minister in the cabinet – who has been caught out twice lying about his tragedy. And there is no clamour for abortion on demand. There is a clamour for abortion to save the mother’s life – as ruled on by the Supreme Court – and which some religious nut job sentencing this woman to death.
thetint | Nov 20, 2012, 09:50 AM EST
I don’t know why Colman is quoting Reilly – the most incompetent minister in the cabinet – who has been caught out twice lying about his tragedy. And there is no clamour for abortion on demand. There is a clamour for abortion to save the mother’s life – as ruled on by the Supreme Court – and which some religious nut job sentencing this woman to death.
Joe Kelsall | Nov 20, 2012, 09:43 AM EST
You're damn right Savita's death is being used to promote allowing women to choose their own destiny. IF she had insisted that the child was NOT removed, that would be HER choice. As it was, religion was the basis for a life and death decision.Tsis is ludicrous and those who think otherwise should save their decisions for 'personal capacities'that require them.
Joe Kelsall | Nov 20, 2012, 09:41 AM EST
Thank you, Marc Coleman - for having the guts to stand up and put a point of view which I am sure many in Ireland hold, but who have no vehicle for dissemination. This tragic affair has now exploded into a full-scale assault on the Catholic church and on those who do not agree with abortion on demand. Even those who suggest that we wait for the result of the investigation are castigated gratuitously, in the foulest of terms. Vicious libels are being perpetrated against the medical personnel involved, calling them "inhumane" and worse. Their "Catholic ethos" is being blamed, even though the abusers have no idea if the medical staff were Catholic or not. The tragic husband appears to be dictating the terms/composition of the Inquiry - where and when has THAT ever occurred in Ireland before. If someone is murdered, does his/her spouse get to name the Judge? If somebody is assaulted, does he/she get to pick the Judge and Jury? He/she is lucky to even be told when the court case is to be held!! And before anybody says "don't be stupid", I know EXACTLY what I'm talking about there. Éamonn, Dublin, (Extremely Proud to Be IRISH, where we have one of the very best childbirth safety records in the world).)
Portia777 | Nov 20, 2012, 09:39 AM EST
Many of the references made to “Irish Catholicism” in the last few days appear to reflect a prejudicial knee jerk hatred that will use any excuse to express itself." It is ROMAN Catholicism which governs Eire
Portia777 | Nov 20, 2012, 09:38 AM EST
Having just passed a referendum to protect the rights of of children, it is too soon to conclude that they should be taken from unborn children." The unborn foetus in question was dying and died as mother nature miscarried fetus.This fetus was not a living breathing self sustaining child.
Portia777 | Nov 20, 2012, 09:29 AM EST
health Minister James Reilly stated last week - there is “no evidence” that Ireland’s “Catholic ethos”, laws or medical practice killed Savita." The law in Eire is controlled by the Roman Catholic church- Opus Dei and quangos. Red Mass to begin each law year- enough proof?
Portia777 | Nov 20, 2012, 09:24 AM EST
Indians were also reported to be outraged at how one of their citizens died at the hands of Ireland’s “barbaric” laws.Ireland has barbaric laws- all Irish women are feeble minded in law and therefor not deemed capable of making any decisions re herself and her body or fertility. Men in frocks and curls make the decisions for the women
DrTrelawney | Nov 20, 2012, 08:46 AM EST
"Marc Coleman ... is writing in a personal capacity." What on earth does that mean?