52 Comments

• Towngate | Jan 03, 2011, 08:31 PM EST

  ROYAL POST SCRUPTUM: ... a friendly, mutually beneficial State Visit by The Queen is preferable to a Declaration of War any day!

• barneyjo | Jan 03, 2011, 08:30 PM EST

  [contd] but of course, we can only guess as to what might have happened if Collins had lived on to be a part of the next chapter. I like to think that the peoples of this island could have gotten to the position we now find ourselves in much sooner. Collins and many of his colleagues on the pro-treaty side were pragmatists which largely dictated I suppose the positions they including Collins took. Even Eamon Devalera (much later in his life) was prepared to concede that Collins's view had been correct when he spoke of history judging the greatness of Michael Collins at his(devalera's) expense. You're right when you say that for the status quo to alter, hearts and minds have to change. History has clearly shown that you cant brow-beat upwards of 900000 Unionists into a Soverign 32 county Irish state. So, if you cant do that then the pragmatic option is to provide them with more reason to be part of an all-ireland socio/political entity than not to. Some years ago, I predicted the evolution of a Federal model of Governance in Ireland, with Regional Assemblies in Dublin and Belfast, but with a developing model for Island wide Governance. Ihave seen nothing to pursuade me thus far that this cannot happen. By necessity it will have to evolve within the current East-West/ North- South dimension; but the signs are already there as to the wisdom of planning on an all island basis. And the great thing is that it will not require the corecion of any one section of the people of this island; but rather it will evolve through natural requirement.

• Towngate | Jan 03, 2011, 10:21 AM EST

  BABYEWE: Keep yer fleece on! I am sure DanO'L just had a lapse as he is a sensible poster. We all make 'typo's' - I think it's because of this little five line box we are squeezed into. Don't be discouraged. Try 'drafting' your post on a Document then Copy - Paste to comment box. This also gives you use of 'spellchecker'. On MacAleese, nobody can tell me if she travels on an Irish or a British passport. I see you dislike the idea of Elizabeth coming: but what interests me is the purpose and Timing of the Visit! ................You like to sign off "Peace Always" (after a CAPS RANT!)The Queen will come in Peace, bringing further friendship, goodwill and harmony between Great Britain Ireland

• MikeCampbell | Jan 02, 2011, 10:22 PM EST

  I love to see Jerry Adams as the next Irish Prime Minister that way he could be there to greet the Queen.

• babyewe | Jan 02, 2011, 07:37 PM EST

  JUST BECAUSE I MISSPELLED [PROTEST ] .CANT PEOPLE USE THEIR IMAGINATION . TO FIGURE OUT THE RIGHT SPELLING . THANKING YOU PEACE ALWAYS .

• sirpeter | Jan 02, 2011, 04:37 PM EST

  barneyjo..Let me put it this way.Do you think it failed for a very large section of the community of Norn Iron? On this Island as you say everyone has different perspectives.That's true and while your post all sounds fair and inclusive and we must all understand eachothers point of view.If everbodies point of view held the same validity,then the status quo would remain and nothing would change.The slave owners in the south felt they had a valid point of view in owning blacks.For change to happen somebody has to change a person's or communities point of view.So by to-days standards of modern thinking,while everybody has a valid point,each valid point has to be measured TO other peoples valid points. In other words not all valid points and beliefs hold the same weight.

• barneyjo | Jan 01, 2011, 05:38 PM EST

  @DanOLoingsigh - thanks for the kind thought. Still not quite sure where the particular train of thought came from, but I was very aware of the "Human Condition" when I was typing it, my own included!!

• DanOLoingsigh | Jan 01, 2011, 02:23 PM EST

  @barneyjo, a thoughtful and well-argued post. J. M. Keynes said 'The difficulty lies, not in the new ideas, but in escaping from the old ones…’, so many people have no interest in even attempting to escape, confident in the certainty of their own prejudices.

• barneyjo | Jan 01, 2011, 10:35 AM EST

  [contd] I dispute that of course. We each of us in turn have our own sense of the ebb and flow of history, and the consequences flowing from it. As I have stated previously I do not intend to pursue the notion of "I'm right, you're wrong - get over it" for the simple fact that it is a futile exercise. Like everyone else I have a view of the world in general, and my world in particular that is no more, or no less valid than that of anyone else who bothers to post on these pages. One other thing, if there are indeed as many "West-Brits" in Ireland (north & south) as sirpeter and others have suggested, then God Save Ireland in all I can say..........

• barneyjo | Jan 01, 2011, 10:26 AM EST

  A further reflection for all posters here... you know what, we each of us have a view of the world at large, and our own part in it, which if formed in large measure by our own experiences, and reference points that have been put in place by those that have gone before us. Each of us inevitably will rely heavily on those experiences and reference points, particularly when we see the world in general, and our own worlds in particular change dramatically, and any sense of control we have is wrested from us. We can regard ourselves as Catholic, Protestant, Republican, Loyalist, Agnostic, or Aetheist, and we can convince ourselves that our view of the world in THE one that is absolutely valid. But the very fact that there are so many different, yet valid views articulated on this space, negates the very notion of absolute validity. No one who posts here can place an absolute claim that their sense of history is more valid than most. In the exchanges beteween sirpeter and myself, you will have seen totally different viewpoints emanating from essentially the same facts. sirpeter charges me that I am not in possession of the full "facts" and that by definition I am throwing a curved ball.............

• barneyjo | Jan 01, 2011, 10:10 AM EST

  Did Partition fail? I suppose that depends on your definition of failure, and at what level of operation and consciousness; at a Micro or Macro level. Failure and its sense is largely a subjective concept. I guess it depends on the context. Oh and when I refer to myself as an Ulsterman, I am of course referring to the nine county Province, and not the six county Statelet now turned into a Super Council.

• DanOLoingsigh | Jan 01, 2011, 06:20 AM EST

  @babyewe-with your gift in use of English, can we rely on you to produce the ‘PROSEST’ signs & banners we will all need soon?

• sirpeter | Dec 31, 2010, 09:56 PM EST

  barneyjo..that's fine..Just answer me this..As an Irish Man and an Ulsterman...Did partition fail?

• babyewe | Dec 31, 2010, 09:37 PM EST

  HELL NO WAY. WE DONT NEED ROYAL SCUM IN IRELAND . MAY SHE AND THE REST OF THE ROYAL FAMILY GO TO HELL. HAS THE REP OF IRELAND'S PEOPLE FORGOTTON HOW THE BRITISH ROYAL. AND THEIR COHORTS HAVE TORTURE OUR ANCESTORS. FOR UNTOLD NUMBER OF YEARS . WAKE UP FELLOW IRISH CITZENS AND PROSEST ANY VISIT FROM THEM [ROYAL SCUM ] . AND WHEN IS REP OF IRELAND. GOING TO ELECT A PRESIDENT BORN IN REP OF IRELAND . THANKING YOU . PEACE ALWAYS .

• roibaird | Dec 31, 2010, 07:27 PM EST

  Towngate, I am assuming "herself" carries an Irish passport ! I could hardly assume otherwise ! I don't know the protocol of a President swearing in........ but would'nt you think the office of an Irish President would require one to be an Irish citizen?? and by the way---------I have a son named Patrick and a daughter named Erin, ...children of an Ulster Prod.

• barneyjo | Dec 31, 2010, 05:23 PM EST

  @sirpeter - I most certainly do not consider myself as a West-Brit, even by your definition, nor do I know anyone else here in Norn Iron that could be considered as such. I also note that a basic tenet of your posts is this all pervasive sense of "Victimhood" that I find so constricting on my own sense of Irishness that I consider it to be unhealthy, unproductive, invalid and redundant. As an Irish Man and an Ulsterman, I can celebrate and appreciate the many contributions that Ireland and Irish Society have made to make the world a better place. I am however realistic and pragmatic enough to recognise that in some instances this has been at a terrible and personal cost to the people of many generations, when you consider the close ties that were forged between Church and State in the process. For my part, I can only be glad the ghostly spectre of the disfunctional Ireland of DeValera and John Charles McQuade is finally and fully being expunged from the Irish Psyche. It seems to me that this land and its people are no longer prepared to "sacrafice our children, to feed the worn-out dreams of yesterday!! History has its rightful place in the life of any societal grouping. However, new chapters have to be written which,while acknowledging that sense of history and identity, they cannot and should not be overshadowed by them. It is simply not possible to reach the future through the past. History tells us that at least!!

• sirpeter | Dec 31, 2010, 04:41 PM EST

  Creakinggate..No reformation here..Just stating facts creaky..Milkman's special you have a sick mind creaky.I wouldn't have a Tinker Towngate. Never trust a West Brit from Dumpland

• Towngate | Dec 31, 2010, 02:56 PM EST

  ONE IS PLEASED to note Curpeter is beginning to reform. However, if he thinks that by slipping his English milkman a few euro it will prevent him delivering a 'milkmans special' whenever he feels like it and walking away smiling at the thought of him drinking it, he is very much mistaken. Happy New Year Everyone!

• CitizenWhy | Dec 31, 2010, 01:45 PM EST

  Let us remember that Madame Windsor is a descendant of Brian Boru and, politics aside, has every right to visit and honor the place of her ancestors.

• CitizenWhy | Dec 31, 2010, 01:43 PM EST

  I rather like that expensively kept woman, Madame Windsor, and Ireland and the UK have come to their senses and have formally reconciled, and the North and South of Ireland will eventually unite in some sort of union, so I have no objection to her visit to Ireland and I hope the whole affair is conducted amicably and graciously,

• sirpeter | Dec 31, 2010, 12:30 PM EST

  bobbyfarty.."There is a political movement here in the North of Ireland. The majority support it. One day it will bear fruit, but until a majority in the north wish to form a united ireland" That's the only part of your post that makes sense.I use the term real Irish for want of a better word to exclude those Irish who are too anglophile in matters of culture or politics."Speak out against traitors - those who wish to harm Ireland" WHO are those traitors? WHO did more harm to this country in the last 5 years? WHO did more good in Northern Ireland in the last 20 years.What's your perception of a traitor? You might find it's real Irishmen who want to move this country forward,and have done, be it a long hard battle.Because you must be blind if you can't see that.

• sirpeter | Dec 31, 2010, 12:07 PM EST

  barneyjo...All i said was we had our own unique sports.keep things in context now.I'm delighted your son is playing football & hurling.English, Scots and Welsh can hardly be called West Brits.Loyalists could be termed West Brits as they are Irish,but their first loyalty is to be British and all that curtails.Your post is telling me you don't know what a West Brit is.Guess i better explain just in case..copy and paste!!..West Brit (abbreviation for West British) is a pejorative term for an Irish person perceived by some of his countrymen as too anglophile in matters of culture or politics.Does the shoe fit? See Towngate is mixed up below...He thinks every post i make is attacking ordinary English people and their wonderful country..I have attacked Government English policy in Ireland,and West Brit misinformation about Irish heritage. I have never attacked the ordinary English people.My milkman is from Birmingham BTW If i was anti-English I wouldn't have him.I give him a pressie of €100 at Christmas because I like him and i get my milk nice and fresh. When is that going to sink in? Why would i have anything against the ordinary English people? I don't attack English culture or the way they run their country. When ever did i make derogatory remarks about Football and the scumbag hooligans who are attached to English Football Culture? Yet derogatory remarks about my Irish culture is all i see from some posters. So as long as i see that..Expect resistance.

• Drisheen | Dec 31, 2010, 10:07 AM EST

  All your nationalistic blather reminds me why my anti treaty, republican grandfather got on the boat in Cobh.

• Towngate | Dec 31, 2010, 09:57 AM EST

  GO!GO!BARNEYJO! You tell 'em! - England is such a wonderful country! The horrible haters at home will never allow themselves to understanding that. Cheers!

• barneyjo | Dec 31, 2010, 06:25 AM EST

  @SIRpeter - on the point of unique sports, it may interest you to know that my Son is attending an English University. He is a playing member of the University GAA club. His college will shortly be competing in the UK Universities football & hurling championships to be held this year in Birmingham. He tells me that on the team he is playing along with English, Scots and Welsh plus a numer of what he describes as "dyed in the wool" Loyalists from East Belfast, coming from the F**k the Pope" wing of Loyalism. All the teams competing are affiliated to the GAA and the championship itself is endorsed by it also. So tell me do, who are the "West-Brits" in that mix??????

• bobby40 | Dec 31, 2010, 05:31 AM EST

  Real Irish? I just see some little bigoted backward irishman? What a laugh. Real irish would rather see the island move forward. Ireland is not unique in its history, a sizable percentage of the world has been conquered by Western European nations. If it wasn’t the british, it would have been the French using Ireland as the backdoor to England. Dear god the world has been at war twice and still we have little irishmen bashing about past woes. There is a political movement here in the North of Ireland. The majority support it. One day it will bear fruit, but until a majority in the north wish to form a united ireland the true irish will live in peace and speak out against traitors - those who wish to harm Ireland

• sirpeter | Dec 30, 2010, 10:39 PM EST

  newcanaan..No point in asking for your land back here...her highness will be arriving soon...no royalty here,just some of her arse lickers

• sirpeter | Dec 30, 2010, 10:03 PM EST

  barneyjo..No it didn't work.. we didn't become British.We didn't become Protestants.We have our own very popular unique sports.Traditional Irish Dance and Celtic music is thriving.More people can speak the Irish language now then they did 50 years ago and don't bother trying to see can i speak Irish,because i'm a fluent Irish speaker..Towngate tried that and i ended up correcting his poor Irish..he didn't even have the decency to reply in Irish to my Irish post..another West Brit.We have our own superior beer and spirits too,not that Ale rubbish in England.We don't even have British bad teeth.BTW..Glad you admit you are a survivor of British state tyranny.Don't you worry I'm well aware of the many ways of skinning a cat..Irish history up to the present and including the Irish government treason it is full of difference methods on skinning the Irish.But the real Irish have not gone away you know.Also i have nothing to fear or dodge from any of your questions.It's first grade stuff.But i try and keep my posts as less complex as possible for those who are not well up on Irish history,so they can get the truth about their Irish history and not a tainted Unionist West Brit pack of lies.

• sirpeter | Dec 30, 2010, 09:16 PM EST

  barneyjo...Weak argument again...A Title is just a Title it has nothing to do with loyalty to the crown..not so with your Pot, Kettle,Black.Your can have a Title and have an IRISH mindset...But the difference is a WEST BRIT has an ENGLISH mindset..That's what the difference is.You really much do better barneyjo

• barneyjo | Dec 30, 2010, 08:07 PM EST

  @jacersagain - IF sirpeter is a genuine knight of the Realm, I wonder if he has taken full advantage of all the rights that go with the title. For example, a priviledge and right unique to Irish Heraldry allows a Knight to drive a herd of geese, sheep, or cattle along the main street of Cahirciveen, during any month with an "R" in it, during a Leap Year. A right worth having and fighting for surely!!!!!!!!

• barneyjo | Dec 30, 2010, 07:58 PM EST

  @londonirishtom - Ah but you must see that in the eyes of sirpeter and his ilk, the views you hold make you a "West Brit" also, and you manage that without even living in Ireland. I am both a child and victim of the war in Northern Ireland; a victim of state tyranny. However, I am also a survivor of state tyranny. When I had to make the choice, I decideded to stay in the land of my birth, and fight for a better tomorrow, MY WAY!! I made that decision thirty years ago, and that fight continues, and will continue as long as I have breath left to fight with. For some reason, sirpeter et al cannot see or wont recognise the fact that "there is more than one way to skin a cat"!!

• jacersagain | Dec 30, 2010, 07:57 PM EST

  Ah now now now lads and lassies... pls don't’ye all get into such a het-up. See that 7 billion that the Uk Govt has donated to Ireland recently? That was just to pay for the wee old lady’s visit. Lap it all up as best you can.

• newcanaan | Dec 30, 2010, 07:56 PM EST

  please bring back my land you stole from my people,your highness.

• barneyjo | Dec 30, 2010, 07:43 PM EST

  @sirpeter - re your comment, "Just the start of a long litany of British Coercion plans to make Irish people British...It never worked!!" Oh but it did, and that is what renders your viewpoint quite silly to my "West Brit" mind. Oh and I noticed your neatly dodged my question an earlier post re your "Knighthood" Its a bit silly you calling all and sundry "West-Brits" when you are the only one who carries a Title!! The words Pot, Kettle, and Black come to mind!!

• londonirishtom | Dec 30, 2010, 06:43 PM EST

  As an Irishman living in London for many years, I have no complaints about the treatment I have received. Most Brits have been very supportive, and I never felt any antagonism towards me, in fact quite the opposite. I have to say my experience has been very positive, so I would welcome a state visit by the queen, it’s 2010, not 1916.

• sirpeter | Dec 30, 2010, 06:36 PM EST

  barneyjo..My long dead ancestors took titles with an English sword to their throat in order to hold onto their lands..Under Surrender and Regrant English policy,just like the Great Hugh O' Neill and many other Great Irish Chieftains.Just the start of a long litany of British Coercion plans to make Irish people British...It never worked!!

• barneyjo | Dec 30, 2010, 06:04 PM EST

  Did anyone watch the Biog programme on RTE last week? The Subject of which was Brendan, 1st Viscount Bracken? Or for that matter did anyone read last weeks "A life in the day...." in the Sunday Times Magazine? The subject was Paddy Fox; a Chelsea Pensioner, born in Tipperary to an Oxfordshire mother and a Belfast Catholic Father. As a Chelsea Pensioner, he served in the British Forces...... interesting to watch and to read!!

• barneyjo | Dec 30, 2010, 05:35 PM EST

  @ sirpeter - just wondering if it was the present Queen who "knighted" you or her father??

• Downunderyan | Dec 30, 2010, 05:33 PM EST

  The Irish have always been magnanimous in defeat i.e. apologising for their existence and right to self-determination, whereas a defeated enemy being submissive only encourages the British in their belief in their own self-righteousness.

• sirpeter | Dec 30, 2010, 05:30 PM EST

  Ajreaper..It's those who hate the Brits who drove them out in the first place.Any heartache throughout history in Ireland was caused by British policy in Ireland.It's not in the past either..If you knew the unwillingness and the obstacles the British government put in front of the peace process in Northern Ireland.You would see nothing is in the past.Only with the help of powerful Irish/Americans did they move forward..Otherwise there would be still war in Northern Ireland..Because they don't care about the Irish..They are not our friends..They only care about their INTERESTS.

• Ajreaper | Dec 30, 2010, 04:31 PM EST

  LOL, hate the Brits because I am supposed to because you cannot truly be Irish and think well of the British? It's that thinking that has caused nothing but heartache throughout history. But hey why learn anything from the past?

• sirpeter | Dec 30, 2010, 04:00 PM EST

  Here comes the Brit lovers..Creakinggate and bobbyfarty,be sure to do tongue stretching exercises, so ye can reach her dry wrinkly ass.As for kilkenny999,I know all Kilkenny is on anti-depressants after losing to Tipperary in the All Ireland hurling final,so he doesn't know what he is saying.

• kilkenny999 | Dec 30, 2010, 02:28 PM EST

  ah come on lads sure theres no harm in it,in fact it might do some good. ( the royal visit to republic )

• Towngate | Dec 30, 2010, 02:14 PM EST

  Thanks ROIBAIRD: No problem at all with the name itself: " (sing!): " Some do think it a misfortune to be Christened Pat or Dan - but to me it is and honour to be called an Irishman".('No Irish Need Apply' -Islanders) ...........You don't say which choice she made! Btw:The six million Irish living in Great Britain who came to live there after 'independance' were also given the choice. Do tell please tell the world: Does the President of Ireland carry a British Passport?

• bobby40 | Dec 30, 2010, 02:00 PM EST

  Congratulations to the Queen. She is now a great grandmother. The wife of her eldest grandson gave birth to a girl yesterday. Congratulations from Ireland.

• bobby40 | Dec 30, 2010, 01:57 PM EST

  Good, the Queens coming to Ireland and about time too. A historic day for British/Irish relations.

• roibaird | Dec 30, 2010, 01:39 PM EST

  Towngate Yer woman McAleese being a Northerer has the choice to declare herself Irish or British As the song goes "and if they ask you what your name is....tell them its MALLOY. for wheres the blame there is no shame in an Irish name my boy." Yer woman McAleese being a Northerer has the choice to declare herself Irish or British

• DrTrelawney | Dec 30, 2010, 01:25 PM EST

  Light blue touch-paper and retire.

• Towngate | Dec 30, 2010, 01:04 PM EST

  The CROWNING GLORY of Briton McAleese tenure is to get her Queen to visit the strange people who elected a foreign national as their president,and see nothing strange about it.......... ...........................HER MAJESTY is just coming to see if there is anything left worth having - so it is bound to be a very short visit.

• antoman | Dec 30, 2010, 10:07 AM EST

  A caravan for the weekend in Ballybunion.Thats the most the taxpayer can afford to provide,,and she'll have to do her own cooking.

• antoman | Dec 30, 2010, 09:42 AM EST

  "One does not carry money"..thats the reply the bar owner will get after herself has offered to pay for a round in a packed pub.

• sirpeter | Dec 30, 2010, 08:47 AM EST

  There are three things to beware of: the hoof of a horse, the horn of a bull, and the smile of an Englishman. All the West Brits will be delighted.The IRA put down their arms for 5 mins,and the royals come skulking back over for a nose around.They never got over the fact the Irish didn't want to be English.