31 Comments

• Collette2 | Jul 23, 2011, 12:38 AM EDT

  This like celibacy, is a man made law, both causing big problems that could and should be repealed. Tell me honestly, who would a clergyman be more afraid of, God or the church hiearchy. We should already know the answer to that by now.

• Colliegirl | Jul 22, 2011, 01:31 PM EDT

  barneyjo, Absolution can't be given conditionally. It can be withheld if, for example, the person refuses to remove himself from the occasion of sin. In scripture Jesus gave the apostles the command to forgive AND TO RETAIN sin. Therefore, the priest can say to a penitent I will leave you in your sin until you take steps to show me that you have truly repented, then come back and I will absolve you. In the case regarding poteen, the priest was unable to grant absolution (he didn't give it conditionally), only the bishop could grant it in that case. A priest can't absolve a person in advance before he fulfills the condition. The person would have to fulfill the condition and then come back for absolution. But even in that case the priest is bound by the seal of confession. Besides, how could anyone trust a priest who would break his vow? What confidence could you have in his word? And it would all be hearsay. Do Irish courts accept hearsay as evidence?

• CitizenWhy | Jul 22, 2011, 10:54 AM EDT

  I think Enda and the bishops have cooked up a scheme to reinvigorate the Irish Catholic Church. Pass this misguided law. Put priest in jail. As a result win sympathy and loyalty back for the Church.

• seanomelbourne | Jul 21, 2011, 09:00 PM EDT

  Gearoid how many pedophile priests confessed to their crimes and what penence did they receive 3 hail marys ? It is illegal not to report a crime priests should not be an excepton to civil law.

• Gearoid4 | Jul 21, 2011, 04:26 PM EDT

  The secrecy of the confessional is paramount in the penitent/confessor relationship and to break the seal of confidentiality on this is enough to incur automatic ex-communication( latae sententiae) for the priest. I can see the moral dilemma involved here but this is a Holy sacrament of the Church and the conditions governing it cannot be dispensed with. In reality the confessional box is a source of little intelligence regarding such crimes as sex-abuse and anyone guilty or suspected of such a crime is unlikely to use it and instead would give themselves in to the secular authorities if they wanted to unburden themselves.

• barneyjo | Jul 21, 2011, 02:47 AM EDT

  @884evergirl - thats precisely the point. "To whom much is given, much is expected"!! Broken lives, broken bones and broken souls should NOT be part of that!!

• 884evergirl | Jul 20, 2011, 11:58 PM EDT

  i am catholic always have been and been in the confessional many times i have done horrible things in my life and i know the priests have heard it all and thank god we are forgiven but no i do agee and applaud the priests that would rather go to jail all they can do i counsel someone and have themselves turn themselves in jesus did say afterall there is no sin that cannot be forgiven except sins against the holy spirit and who's sins yu forgive on eath will be forgiven in heaven and those that yu retain on earth will be retained in heaven they do have difficult decisions to make and thats why not everyone can be a priest and why we have so few its not easy and we must pray for them the most because much has been given to them by GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• bonjouryall | Jul 20, 2011, 09:49 PM EDT

  I believe relatively few priests hide behind the sanctity of the confession. At the same time, there is nothing to prevent that same priest from saying 'no, this should not occur' if the administrative priests decide to reassign a sinning priest to another parish where they do not know of his wicked ways. Like sending Boston pedophile priests to Louisiana. The adm. type priests just don't ask questions and don't listen if an opinion is given by a good priest. It is possible they may "create" a fake confession just to be able to assert it. In both cases, their sin is almost as great as the pedophile.

• sirpeter | Jul 20, 2011, 09:39 PM EDT

  God loves Pedophiles

• barneyjo | Jul 20, 2011, 08:10 PM EDT

  @TomSwinford - if you want to consider conditionality, think on the story of the wealthy young man who enquired of Jesus "what must I do to enter the kingdom of heaven" to which the reply was "give up all that you have and follow me" And you know the rest. I take it you can see the paralell to my previous post!!

• barneyjo | Jul 20, 2011, 08:02 PM EDT

  @Fathervol - not so. In 19th/20th Century Ireland the church regarded both the consumption and production of Poteen as a major sin to the point that in certain Diocese, absolution was conditional on the confession of this sin to the Bishop and the Bishop alone; the priest was not permitted to grant absolution in this instance. Thus an element of conditionality is present.

• pilib04 | Jul 20, 2011, 07:37 PM EDT

  Any priest who hides pedophiles should go to jail. Priests have been hidden by the church hierarchy for too long. They have enjoyed protection by the seal of the confessional. This is about to stop as it should!

• pilib04 | Jul 20, 2011, 07:03 PM EDT

  I was not aware that forgiveness in the confessional box could be conditional. "Sins that are forgiven, they are forgiven; sins that are retained, they are retained." MsGail and barneyjo, I like your solution, it makes sense - but, of course, that's the problem, it makes sense. In truth, I am with glorybe1929. As I've said in an earlier post on this subject, I am no longer a practicing Catholic. But I have not lost my faith, I have lost my religion. My faith is a personal and private matter between me and my God - and no one else, period. When we allowed intermediaries to intercede between ourselves and God we totally screwed up the world - and gave unconditional power and wealth to institutions that in their very nature were bound to abuse this trust in the worst way. They have and they will again and again.

• seanomelbourne | Jul 20, 2011, 06:57 PM EDT

  I am proud of priests who would be jailed rather than break the seal because that is where they belong for aiding and abetting criminal behaviour(an acccessory after the fact comes to mind).

• FatherVol | Jul 20, 2011, 06:33 PM EDT

  Glorybe doesn't know his/her sacred scriptures for the Church was given the authority to loosen and bind people ccording to their sins. Barbeyjo, a priest can only urge a penitent to confess his/her wrongdoing to public authorities; he cannot compely him/her to do so by making is a condition of forgiveness.

• JOHNTOBIN | Jul 20, 2011, 05:10 PM EDT

  I agree with barneyjo.I believe that this type of action taken by the priest is not uncommon.He will give absolution to the penitent on the condition that he turns himself in to the authorities.

• diski11 | Jul 20, 2011, 04:17 PM EDT

  Then jail em. They deserve it, to think its ok to protect a fellow priest or pedophile over that of a child (who will NEVER recover from the trauma) is trully evil. Lock them up with the murderers and that should help clean up a lot of the priests that feel 'duty bound' to fellow rapists. Its no wonder the RC church has lost so many of its flock. Its nothing but hypocrisy!

• mayoman | Jul 20, 2011, 03:23 PM EDT

  glorybe: You misunderstand my point entirely. I do not condone priests that protect one another when a suspected crime has taken place, nor do I agree or disagree that the Irish Government has a right to require a priest to report a crime. Frankly, its not for me to decide. I do however understand the difficulty of Father Hoban's situation, which you obvious do not, and I admire Hoban's courage in sticking to his convictions, even to the point of risking the possibility of jail time. Whether he is ultimately found to be right or wrong I'll leave to the Irish authories to determine. I would also like to suggest that you take the time to exactly read what people have said here. It may spare us all from your pompous and groundless quasi-religious diatribes.

• barneyjo | Jul 20, 2011, 02:08 PM EDT

  Its not rocket science - make a absolution conditional on a voluntary confession to statutory authorities and apply the sacredoetal seal of confession on that basis and on that basis only. if the voluntary confession is not forthcoming then surely the sacredoetal seal need not apply and therefore it should not mitagate against a priest speaking out¬!!

• glorybe1929 | Jul 20, 2011, 02:04 PM EDT

  MsGail....you're supporting the evil RCC. No man has the right to make you confess your sins to him or make you tell the authorities. Only God hears your heart..no mere man has the ability to change water to wine and bread into flesh. It is not given to any man by a vow. The only person able to that is you, in your belief system, when you recieve communion and it is in your Holy Power to believe Christ is there in both species, you for your self,to consecrate. There is No magic of someone else doing this for you. This is Blasphemy.The RCC has filled you with unbiblical lies.

• glorybe1929 | Jul 20, 2011, 01:56 PM EDT

  Mayoman...you have been so generationally brainwashed you admire this eviltrait in a mere man. You should be ashamed that you do not use the brain that God has given you. But you listen to a person so evil that he makes you think it is right. That is the devils work, he is cunning and smart and has decieved you along with the masses for millenium(s). But you KNOW NOW and must not be decieved anymore. Ask God to help you and HE will.

• Kristine Ward N | Jul 20, 2011, 01:43 PM EDT

  The seal of confession debate is a red herring in the Irish clergy sex abuse scandal. Father Hoban and his colleagues would far better serve the faithful by examining how it is they have stayed silent for so long in what is the largest scandal in the Church in the past 500 yeras. And really, how many priests who abuse children have come forward in confession? What's needed is real, determined action on the part of Pope and priests to give up the cleric over child preference and a real committment to the protection of children and the seeking of justice.

• glorybe1929 | Jul 20, 2011, 01:17 PM EDT

  This idea of "seal of confession" is the biggest pot of BS that has kept the people from going directly to God with their sins. This is an evil thing, "confession" to a mere man. It is so that the priests can KNOW what's going on in your lives and take care of it.. their way....not God's way. This is a "man made" church" to be gotten rid of as fast as you can run away from it. Your very soul depends on leaving. They want you to think they are better than you, when they are so evil it isn't even a thought to pass your mind that they could be doing this for themselves.The evil is interred in their bones(as Shakespere would say)I say it also, having left this evil place over 10 yrs ago. You are not using the minds that God has given you, if you listen anymore to their garbage.

• Nicomax | Jul 20, 2011, 12:29 PM EDT

  if this works for a Catholic priest, will it also apply to a Muslim iman who learns from a member of his flock that he participated in the bombing of the local train station?

• Ms.Gail | Jul 20, 2011, 12:01 PM EDT

  A priest can require a penance that includes confessing to civil authorities. If that penance is not done, the offender can be denied sacrements. The priest does not have to reveal secrets of the confessional, but the denial of sacrements should bring attention to the evil doer and bring the spotlight upon him or her.

• rainbowbrew | Jul 20, 2011, 10:22 AM EDT

  I am sorry but these guys are provving that they hide pediphiles and want to keep hising them. I would suggest a divesting of Ireland from the catholic church and create your own. the catholics having been taking money away from the irish for too long and now will not even atone nor help. Seems that the vatican is still a cult from the 1st and 2nd century. I can understand the secrecy thing but hey these guys they are protecting are the worst of the worst. No wonder so many priests got away with it. All they had to do was confess and everything was back to normal. SICKO sicko.

• mayoman | Jul 20, 2011, 09:53 AM EDT

  Despite what any of us may believe concerning the Seal of Confession, and whether any government has the right to open that seal, and thus empower and force priests to rat out the Faithful that confess their sins; I nonetheless repect and admire Father Hoban's courage.

• colkelley | Jul 20, 2011, 09:39 AM EDT

  Yet another reason the RC Church in Ireland is fading fast and will cease to exist.

• colkelley | Jul 20, 2011, 09:26 AM EDT

  I am mindful of the moral attachment priests have to the confessional seal but surely there is a higher mortality - the protection of innocents from soul-destroying crimes committed by the very institution claiming the seal of silence under Canon Law. Is there not something truly perverse about this? What of the serial killer who also happens to be a "good" Catholic (no, I'm not being ironic, there have been many)and regularly confesses his murders to his favorite priest. At what point does the seal of confession break down. At what point does the priest become complicit in the murders, if not an indirect participant? I recognize that this is not a simple black and white issue but it is a bit galling to read that these priests will continue to protect pedophiles in their midst, allowing their crimes to continue. It is instructive to note that many of the greatest mass murderers of the 20th century were Catholic, often raised in strict/devout Catholic homes. To mention just a few: Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels, Von Pappan, Goering (his mother) - and outside Nazi Germany, Mussolini, Franco (Spain), Salazar(Portugal), Pinochet(Chile) - to name just a few.

• unconvinced | Jul 20, 2011, 09:25 AM EDT

  Don't inderestimate the power of Romeand the Roman Catholic church. They can all hide behind the confessional and continue to bugger children . This whole Cloyne issue is a whitewash and there is not a thing anyone can do about it - A ROTTEN ROTTEN EVIL SYSTEM - GET OUT OF THE RC CHURCH ITS TAKING YOU TO HELL

• LoyalCitizen | Jul 20, 2011, 07:06 AM EDT

  This article speaks volumes about a police force that cannot police. It speaks volumes about judicial systems in Ireland that have never worked in favour of the victims. You cannot rely on the perpetrator of a crime to reveal the details and drawing up legislation to force people to confess crimes is ridiculous and never going to work.