54 Comments

• | Apr 20, 2012, 03:05 AM EDT

  Eiriamach! "Tóg go bog é", you say. Moi? Shure I'm enjoying the crack ("crack", as one of your supermunificence will know, is the correct spelling - "craic" is a modern bastardisation of "crack", just to make it look more "irish". Originally, "having the crack" meant - long long before the days of radio - a group of Irish sitting around farting and having a great laugh at the various forms of that particular skill on display. Great gas altogether! I think it's paerhaps your good self who needs to take it easy. I suppose you mean no harm. I'm sorry you backed out on the 1,000 word challenge. It only serves to prove my point. By the way, if you still don't know how to put a fada on an Irish vowel, please ask (it's no harm to show doubt or ignorance about a particular feature - really!) and I will lay it out clearly for you. Now, to use a bit of Latin instead of Irish for a parting remark: Derdago forte lores inaro demant lores demar trux fuler bulsen cowsan dux. Slán abhaile agus go neirí an bothar leat. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• eiriamach | Apr 19, 2012, 06:13 PM EDT

  Just one more thing, EamonnDublin, in case I inadvertently wrote an insult in my Gaeilge bhriste: I translated your slur about my head being "a silo-full of manure" into Irish, and it read like a nice compliment! "Leasu" (past part. adj. leasaithe) ~~"amendment, improvement, reform, redress, etc." As for my showing a grasp of moral relativism, I did that in my previous comments, again-- as any open-minded reader can see. Tog go bog e. (Pardon lack of accents.)

• eiriamach | Apr 19, 2012, 05:59 PM EDT

  EamonnDublin, why would you wish to have a discussion with someone you consider a "presumptuous, conceited, twit"? A productive discussion requires at least a somewhat open mind. You accuse me of self-contradiction: Spell it out; unpack that accusation; be specific about just ONE of the "many instances." I do not back down from a sincere challenge, but I deal in specifics when I debate, and I eschew invective. So I cannot say as how I'd enjoy discussing relativism with you, but if you have a specific objection to something specific I wrote, let's see it. As for me, I am quite content to let the exchange stand just as it is for anyone who cares to read through it and make up his or her own mind about whose words are on point. This is not the place for an academic lecture in meta-ethics, so 'no thanks' on your invitation to make "a 1,000-word opening statement."

• EamonnDublin | Apr 19, 2012, 05:55 PM EDT

  Ah come on, Eiriamach! Don't back out now! Now is your chance to show that you have a bit of a grasp of moral relativism. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• EamonnDublin | Apr 19, 2012, 02:55 AM EDT

  KatieMurphy: Hitler is DEAD. D.E.A.D. As for your name for Pope Benedict, all I can say is "SAD". Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• KatieMurphy | Apr 19, 2012, 01:46 AM EDT

  RATAinger in 2009 UNexcommunicated a holocaust denier. Need I say more.................Yes, it appears that hitler has yet to be explicitly excommunicated by the church that claims to protect life.

• EamonnDublin | Apr 18, 2012, 06:52 PM EDT

  "Eiriamach". You really are such a presumptuous, conceited, twit. If you wish to have a serious discussion about the varieties of relativism, come on, let's have you. You go first and we'll see what you're made of. From your earlier ramblings about moral relativism, self-contradictory and confused in many instances, it is very obvious that you have an extremely limited, very basic grasp of the beginnings of the subject for such a discussion. I look forward to, at least, a 1,000 word opening statement from you. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• eiriamach | Apr 18, 2012, 05:42 PM EDT

  I see that EamonnDublin has done some research into the varieties of relativism. Go Maith! Ní saor go binn, nó go binn leasaithe b' fhéidir.

• EamonnDublin | Apr 17, 2012, 06:22 PM EDT

  "Eiriamach", I think it's time to wrap this one up. Your interpretation of relativism - moral, descriptive, meta-ethical, and/or normative relativism - is apparently unique to you and narrow to the point of oblivion. I do not wish to offend, but, sincerely and seriously, I really do think you should go and see a psychiatrist in order to rid your suffering head of a silo-full of manure. Thank you, GeorgeDillon for putting it more politely than I have done. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• eiriamach | Apr 17, 2012, 02:40 PM EDT

  Let's not forget that Joseph Ratzinger's Nazi affiliation was not all in his early teen years. He spent two years in the German army as well. As Austin Cline writes, "None of the other Germans who joined the Hitler Youth, were part of the military in Nazi Germany, lived near a concentration camp, and watched Jews being rounded up for death camps has ever become pope." So again I ask why that choice for pope? Why not be more careful? Cline asserts, "Ratzinger believes that greater fidelity to Catholic doctrine, as defined by the Vatican, is necessary to counter movements like Nazism." But movements like Nazism are recognized by their techniques of control and centralizing power. Censorship is foremost on the list of strategies. What are we witnessing now?

• GeorgeDillon | Apr 17, 2012, 02:36 PM EDT

  eiriamach: What a whining bore you are. Keep your stupid moralizing for Bible School.

• peterson | Apr 17, 2012, 02:31 PM EDT

  The Vatican is getting very friendly withe Germany and the EU. Beware !!

• eiriamach | Apr 17, 2012, 02:06 PM EDT

  My point has nothing to do with relativism, Eamonn. Apparently you still neither understand moral relativism nor recognize it in your own thinking. I introduced an analogy with other 14-year-old boys to show that youth is not an excuse for homicide. By analogy, the Pope does not have a prima facie excuse for joining a Nazi organization simply because he was young or because the law required it or because "everyone was doing it" or any other reason RELATIVE to time, place, or circumstance. There is a transcendent moral law for him, as for 14-year-olds everywhere and for us all. If we disregard it, it does not disappear. Right and wrong are not relative to time, place, culture, youth or age (to the extent one is competent), nationality, prevailing politics, social or family pressures, or other such circumstances. Coercion provides an excuse only when nothing of great moral importance is at stake. If you hold a gun to my head and demand all the money in the cash register, I may give it to you and remain innocent of theft, but if you pass a law requiring that I be complicit in genocide-- or even in censorship-- then I may not obey it and remain innocent.

• EamonnDublin | Apr 17, 2012, 01:33 PM EDT

  "Eiriamach", What on earth does "14 year old boys in the USA carrying guns into schools and killing their fellow pupils" have to do with Pope Benedict joining Hitler youth at the age of 14? I thought you detested relativism? Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• eiriamach | Apr 17, 2012, 01:14 PM EDT

  EamonnDublin, in the USA, we have had 14-year-olds carry guns into schools and kill their fellow students and teachers. Shall we say "Boys will be boys" and overlook their perverse character development? The young Joseph Ratzinger went directly from Hitler Youth to a Catholic school and on through seminary. If I disregard his Nazi training, I am still compelled to ask about those who elected him Pope, "Could you find NO ONE ELSE qualified for the job?" It was a mistake, an embarrassing one, especially now that Benedict XVI's focus on centralizing all decisions and power in the Curia has become unmistakably clear. If his writings had redeemed his past, I might be kinder in my judgment, but while he occasionally gets something right, as in his 1967 statement on 'conscience,' explicating PPaul VI, his theology is at best so-so, his explications of scripture jejeune, and his direction of Vatican policy autocratic. The point that Bythebay made about his Nazi affiliation is relevant to explaining his current policies. Briseann an dúchas trí shúile an chait.

• Springfield9 | Apr 17, 2012, 12:38 PM EDT

  Disown the agreement which put the Church under Rome (The Iona Treaty). Then we can mind our own business.

• EamonnDublin | Apr 17, 2012, 10:54 AM EDT

  "Eiriamach", In order that you might understand what I wrote, I will repeat for you: Pope Benedict was 14 years of age when he joined Nazi Youth. Get it now? FOURTEEN. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• eiriamach | Apr 17, 2012, 07:20 AM EDT

  Eamonn, it is a requirement of the law of God that we not obey unjust laws, such as German law under Naziism. When human law is in conflict with eternal and universal moral law/ natural law, our path is clear: "We must obey God rather than any human authority" (Acts 5:29). That's what it means to have an objective and unchanging moral law. Relativism holds that it is morally acceptable to comply with the spirit of the times, or ultimately, that we cannot assign moral value consistently according to any objective or absolute standards and we must evaluate each case according to its unique time/place/pressures/motives, etc. The only question you need to ask relativists is "Are you sure?" Invariably, they answer "absolutely!" and thereby contradict themselves by maintaining that there is one objective absolute standard-- that relativism alone is right. Thus Socrates and Protagorus, and still today. It's a sophmoric approach to scepticism and critical thinking, but one can advance beyond it. Your stream of insults shows some uncertainty with your position, and that's a healthy sign.

• EamonnDublin | Apr 17, 2012, 03:51 AM EDT

  "Eiriamach"! Yes, I posted the response which appears under your name, signed by myself. I have no idea how this happened - the editor will hopefully tell you. As for your "response" to mine - again, I have no intention of clarifying what I said as it is plain enough and I stand totally over it. All I will add is that Pope Benedict (why do you insist on calling him "Razinger"?) was enlisted to the Hitler Youth immediately after his 14th birthday, BECAUSE IT WAS A REQUIREMENT OF GERMAN LAW after 1939 that all youths did so upon reaching 14 years of age. Now, grow up! Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• eiriamach | Apr 16, 2012, 07:06 PM EDT

  EDITOR, the 6:11 comment was VERY OBVIOUSLY written by EamonnDublin, yet it appears to have my screen name on it. Weird! And it's happened frequently lately. Please REMOVE MY NAME from the 6:11 comment.

• eiriamach | Apr 16, 2012, 07:03 PM EDT

  Eamonn, why does your name not appear on your 6:11 comment? Well, since you signed it, I'll answer: Quite simply, a member of the Nazi Youth is ***by definition*** either a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer. Those who find Naziism morally objectionable do not join Nazi organizations. Those who do not find it objectionable or who have "no particular motive" are seriously deficient in conscience or moral reasoning or both. I've read what you wrote, and I've replied. It's silly to try to wriggle out of it. You tried to excuse Ratzinger's Nazi stint by pleading moral relativism and you got called out on it by someone who has been falsely accused several times hereabouts of moral relativism. Just try to be more careful in the future, OK?

• eiriamach | Apr 16, 2012, 06:11 PM EDT

  "Eiriamach", Either you are too dumb to understand plain English, or you purposefully twisted what I have said. I will not explain what I said for you, as you are very obviously way past the stage where you actually listen to a viewpoint other than your own - and, typical of that ilk, whatever is stated contradictory to your own opinion you twist to suit your purpose. A little advice: sit down, take a deep breath, read word for word, phrase by phrase and sentence by sentence what I ACTUALLY wrote. Now, if you don't see the stupidity of your interpretation of what I wrote, then I fail to see how anybody can assist you, because you have disappeared too far up your own ass (or, as we say in Ireland, arse) to see the light of day. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• eiriamach | Apr 16, 2012, 05:23 PM EDT

  I just howl whenever I see this all-too-common Roman Catholic moral RELATIVISM: "it was just what they did at that time and in that place" from EamonnDublin, writing about Joseph Ratzinger's Hitler Youth stint. It fitted the time and place (Nazi Germany), so it could not have been evil? Tell that to the resisters, who took their stands in conscience and objective morality, those who called a racist a racist and a demagogue a demagogue, those who could reason their way to a moral precept and refuse to serve the Reich! RC defenders yell "relativism" and "secularism" whenever someone calls for bringing the Vatican into the modern ages. And they do it most often with NO basis whatever! Apparently, "relativism" is only a smear they toss around freely without understanding the meaning of the word, and when they themselves slip into relativist thinking, they look not only ridiculous but hypocritical. Blame the spirit of the time and place; elude the truth; refuse responsibility and make saints out of Nazis. How convenient, how comforting for the supporters of a band of unrepentant pedophiles!

• Brolaur | Apr 16, 2012, 05:05 PM EDT

  I agree with Nicoletta. The Catholic Church is not a multi national corp. run by a CEO and responsible to Shareholders. "Thou art Peter and upon this Rock, I will build my Church. I give to thee the Keys of the Kingdom of Heaven. Feed my lambs, Feed my Sheep". The Church is guided by the Holy Spirit "AS It was in the beginning, Is now ans Ever shall be". The Church is not a democracy. What has God to learn from Man? At the present time The Church is Vomiting the slime out of It's mouth. So be on your way. The Church needs you not but believe you me, you will surely need the Church, some day SOON.

• Nicoletta | Apr 16, 2012, 03:16 PM EDT

  All those who don't like the Vatican running the Catholic church you have a choice - lump it or leave it.

• FallsRNat | Apr 16, 2012, 03:01 PM EDT

  the church is at best an irrelevance, run by old men who are detached from reality, condemning women who wish to have an abortion yet condemning millions of people to a slow torturous death by HIV/AIDS by not agreeing to the use of condoms, Jesus never lived in a palace not should the Pope, There will be no sorting the church's problems until the whole rotten edifice is overturned, it is OK to be a catholic, but we shouldn't be ruled from Rome.

• EamonnDublin | Apr 16, 2012, 01:52 PM EDT

  "Bythebay". The fact that Benedict was indeed a member of Hitler Youth does by no stretch of the imagination mean that he was/is a nazi sympathiser. it was just what they did at that time and in that place: young people joined Hitler Youth with no particular motive. A mistake, yes: evil, no. As for "McNamara31", yes, there are obviously problems with the Church, but I have no doubt it will be sorted out. It's sad that there are so many atheists, and plenty of Catholics, who enjoy nothing more than putting a bootful of hate in, in order to release some sick venom. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• McNamara31 | Apr 16, 2012, 12:40 PM EDT

  Sophium.... “Self-centered, self-absorbed" you say? Many life-long Catholics would tell you that the problem is with the Vatican and not the people who truly follow Christ’s message. The church is crumbling today not because of the actions of the followers but due to the actions of the Vatican and church leadership. This church was built from the bottom up by the faithful, many of them poor immigrants of the time and it is being destroyed by those who chose to follow their corporate lawyers rather than tenets of faith.

• eiriamach | Apr 16, 2012, 08:17 AM EDT

  Triple insulation from the world is not appropriate for any Christian church, IrelandNorth. Light? That's the opposite of crime cover-ups, isn't it? Manichaeism turns opposites against each other in an unnatural way. Originally part of Creation, polarities like good and evil, knowledge and ignorance, male and female, became problematic only after the pair "ate the apple" of moral understanding and guilt entered the world. But Christianity does not make a weapon of moral understanding or divide humanity into good/evil, straight/gay, or life into sacred/ secular: "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Ga. 3:28). The task is not to insulate or triple-glaze yourselves from the world so that you can consider yourselves superior, set apart from other denominations, a holy people while you reject the problematics of difference. The task is to reclaim the original holiness and unity of creation, to draw the ignorant toward the light, to recognize the homosexual as well as the heterosexual in human nature, to transcend differences, to convert evil impulses, to turn the selfish toward community-- not to form a community of the self-centered. RCs have much to learn from Protestants and other denominations about living in the world while being not overwhelmed by it, alienated from it, or at war with it. It's most strange that you see Jesus' love for Magdalene as nothing but a species of sexual attraction!

• IrelandNorth | Apr 16, 2012, 06:29 AM EDT

  Is triple glazing not most appropriate for a trinitarian church? eiriamach! Mani was a prophet of light, not of "... magical thinking and virtual enslavement." Science fiction is often gnostic in its paradigm. eiriamach! "Why do you love her [Miriam of Migdala] more than us?" (Phillip to Jeshua in the Gospel of Phillip). "Because I'm straight, dude! Not like your homodoxicists(?)" (Ireland North paraphrasing Jeshua). Homosexuality is a [den]omination! Archbishop MacHale of Tuam is also reknown for his infamous anti-Fenian comment: "Hell is not hot enough nor eternity long enough!" No wonder BillyBoy Bythebay quotes him so amorously. EamonDublin! Some times my posts too don't stick either. This has more to do with word recognition softwear used by state censorship agencies (Ireland/US?) than either IC or the adhesivenemss of our posts. (Try posting about certain criminal sexual practices/state agencies or reknown terrorists!) Time to reembrace pre-Constantinian Christianity.

• EamonnDublin | Apr 16, 2012, 05:17 AM EDT

  "Phinsman" .......... and probably you want Catholics to pray to Allah, just for a change? Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• aloistmartin | Apr 15, 2012, 09:09 PM EDT

  Dublin will go, where the Investiture Question never tread ?

• phinsman | Apr 15, 2012, 08:25 PM EDT

  The Roman Catholic Church should be a democracy, not dictated by the Vatican... it sincerely needs to become more modern. No celibacy, add female priests, allow contraception, allow priests, nuns and brothers to be married and have a family, and homosexuality is not a sin... it is not something that a person has control over in their body, nor can it be "fixed".

• markday | Apr 15, 2012, 07:07 PM EDT

  No, Sophium, the screaming you hear is not of the critical thinkers, but that of the abused altar boys and little girls who need someone to give them a voice. They certainly never got it from Karol Woytla and Josef Ratinger, heirs apparent to the Holy Inquisition. (there was a lot of screaming gong on in those dungeons as well) By the way, I suggest that the title "His Holiness" be done away with. Holiness is something earned, not bestowed upon by a bunch of old men in red dresses. Covering up sex abuse is anything but holy. And how can someone like Bernard Law be considered "His Eminence." He, like many others have been kicked upstairs for their misdeeds. Sophium what a mess your "Holy Mother" is in right now. In the long haul of history those who never spoke up against eccleasiastical injustices will be the trully forgotten ones. And, yes, up tony Flannery!

• helmet365 | Apr 15, 2012, 06:57 PM EDT

  As i and others posting on this site have said previously "the Church must change or die".

• EamonnDublin | Apr 15, 2012, 06:10 PM EDT

  Why was my post deleted from the board? I take great exception to this. Is it your policy to only allow those posts which attack the Catholic church? How bigoted of you. Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• PiperMac52 | Apr 15, 2012, 04:15 PM EDT

  For any Catholic who knows anything about church doctrine or teaching it is fundamental to understand that the Church is a hierarchical church as appointed by Christ. The chair of Peter in Rome is charged with maintaining that the Church worldwide adheres to those precepts. For far to long the Vatican took a hands of approach which has led to dissent, heterodoxy, heresy and confusion amongst the laity. I would add it directly is responsible for allowing the sex abuse situation to flourish without restraint. The liberal "reform" church embraced the world and the culture in opposition to Christ's teachings. Christ's teachings as handed to the Apostles through sacred tradition and sacred Scripture are immutable. Men and women have different roles in the church just as they do in life and the family. So-called reform has resulted in the reformation and hundreds of protestant denominations, all which disagree as to certain aspects of the faith as it was handed by Christ.Deleting books from the bible, excluding the Mass, denying the real presence in the Eucharist, now acceptance of "gay" priests and ministers(in direct opposition to scripture)...the list goes on. Reformation is merely man's bending of God's will to fit his own hedonistic desires. Kudos to the Vatican for stepping in to preserve the faith in it's entirety. It has always been the church militant, those who remain faithful to the immutable truths, who have saved the church throughout the ages. Nothing has changed.

• SeamusMartin | Apr 15, 2012, 03:30 PM EDT

  Up Father Flannery! May the ACP 800 continue the fight for a Catholic Reformation. Blessed be the peacemakers.

• SeamusMartin | Apr 15, 2012, 03:11 PM EDT

  If some of the posters on here want to look for real EVIL, then, instead of concentrating uniquely on the Catholic church you love to hate so much, why don't you turn your minds to Islamic fundamentalism/extremism, just for a change? Or might that cause "offence"? But no problem at all in offending the Catholic church! "Just saying". Éamonn, Dublin, Ireland.

• Sophium | Apr 15, 2012, 02:41 PM EDT

  Other than Nicoletta and mikehoulihan, all I see from the writer of this article and the commentators is this: A bunch of whining, self-centered, self-absorbed, emotionally-wounded, and ignorant-but-thinking-I-am-wise children. You scream at any attempt to make you better as you crawl and squirm toward your altar of the Worship of Self. The Catholic Church has been around long before you had a wee voice on the matter and Mother Church will be around long after your voice is silenced. Scream all you want. Your life will last only so much longer before the biological solution kicks in. Mother Church and Her voice of truth will still be here, guiding those who will listen and mature.

• eiriamach | Apr 15, 2012, 02:24 PM EDT

  More exotic explanations and prophecies from Intercessor. Catholics need to free themselves from magical thinking and virtual enslavement of their minds to human authority. They don't need more of either to fill the void left by RC demise with more Manichaeism. People can rent out a "Star Wars" video if that's what they enjoy. We all know that 40% or more of RC priests, bishops, and higher-ups are homosexual and have been for generations, maybe centuries. At this juncture, RC must come to terms with homosexuality as a natural expression of human sexuality. Condemning it as an invasion by godless secularism shows only the exquisite self-delusion that still infects the curia and hierarchy. And it furthers repression of sexuality in all of its forms, most of all in the repressive, un-Christ-like doctrines that have brought that Church to its... I almost wrote "knees"-- unfortunately, not to its knees, but pretty far down!

• Intercessor | Apr 15, 2012, 01:43 PM EDT

  To PhlutiePhan: There is a book that you might enjoy called, "Rite of Sodomy Vol III." I just read a review of it today on "Abuse Tracker." Here is part of the review, which might confirm your suspicions about the American Church, where you said, "The entire rebellion in Ireland was caused by those trained in the United States." Here's a part of it: "Chapter 12 is a tale of intergenerational homosexuality in AmChurch during the first half of the 20th century. It highlights the lives of three prominent homosexual prelates, Cardinal William O’Connell of Boston, Cardinal Francis Spellman of New York, and Bishop (later Cardinal) John Wright of Worcester and their heirs in AmChurch through the next two generations. It is no coincidence that the earliest pederast/homosexual scandals in AmChurch occurred in the greater Boston area where Cardinals O’Connell, Spellman and Wright once plied their vice. These three prelates produced an entire contingent of homosexual bishops and cardinals, some of whom continue to hold positions of power in the American hierarchy today."

• Intercessor | Apr 15, 2012, 01:33 PM EDT

  To Portia777: I would like to give you some hope! I write this as a "Cradle Catholic!" Others, take heart! Read the 17th and 18th chapters of the Book of Revelation to see how the Apostate Church, "built on 7 hills," will be destroyed. "A Great Angel" will pick up "A Great Millstone," and drop it on top of this Apostate Church, also known as "The Whore of Babylon!" Now what other Church or denomination on the face of this earth has it's world headquarters built "on 7 hills?" What other world-headquarters of a denomination deserves to be destroyed by "A Great Millstone?" In His holy Word, God Almighty has given us all of the signs of the gigantic, Apostate Church's complete destruction, and He did this 2000 years ago! What will happen when this Apostate Church is destroyed and wiped off of the face of the earth? The Bible tells us that the people in heaven will REJOICE over Her destruction: “Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets, for God has avenged you on her!” Revelation 18:20. God is still in His Heaven, and one day, hopefully soon, He'll rain destruction down upon this false, Religious System! Is it any wonder why the Catholic Church wouldn't let Her people read the Bible for centuries?

• eiriamach | Apr 15, 2012, 01:26 PM EDT

  Rumor has it that the Vatican will soon welcome SSPX back to the fold, and if it does, more voices for progress are sure to go silent "for fear of retribution" or on-line attack. I hope lay Catholics will not let that happen.

• eiriamach | Apr 15, 2012, 01:09 PM EDT

  Well, the comments below are stimulating: one suggests that RC began as a cult whose leaders grew power hungry, another reminds us not to expect openness from a Vatican shaped by the Borgias, another claims that because IC sometimes covers abortion-related news, the recent bad news must be merely IC's fictitious and malicious PR campaign against Catholicism (LOL!), and still another claims that a legitimately elected Vatican II-era pope withdrew (reports elsewhere say Siri was forced out) and (the usual, tired theory claims) every pope since then has been illegitimate. No exotic explanations are necessary, however. The current deterioration really is as bad as the anonymous writer of the article says: tyranny has taken hold in the Curia, and freedom of speech and conscience is suspended. Censorship of diverse opinions about moral issues is understandable amidst continuing attempts by civil powers to hold RC officials, KNOWN to be guilty, responsible for sexual abuse cases throughout the world. But as the writer argues, openness and humility are precisely what's needed right now, not enforced, obedient silence. For a way to think about conscience and obedience as relevant to the censorship of Fr. Flanagan, I recommend "Responding in Conscience to the Magisterium," posted this morning by Australian Brian Lewis at v2catholic dot com.

• BarbaraB | Apr 15, 2012, 11:50 AM EDT

  I'm somewhat shocked at the comments here against Irish Central for its reports. The pews are empty, not because of a scarcity of faith, but of an anger at the old white men of Rome who still believe they have all the answers.

• PhlutiePhan | Apr 15, 2012, 10:59 AM EDT

  There were conclaves in 1958 and 1963 and Malachi Martin stated that the Archbishop of Genoa, Giuseppe Cardinal Siri was elected in both and then withdrew after accepting under pressure. In one of these two conclaves, white smoke was seen to indicate an election and then denied.

• petbra | Apr 15, 2012, 10:36 AM EDT

  It's simple. Break away from those Vatican bastards. Set up your own Irish church.

• mikehoulihan | Apr 15, 2012, 10:02 AM EDT

  Thanks to Irish Central for our daily dose of blasphemy, heresy, and idiocy.

• sailmaker | Apr 15, 2012, 10:02 AM EDT

  In ten years or less, this abominable English translation of the Mass will be in the trash heap. In fifty years or less, there will be both married and women priests, and the Bishop of Rome will be a colleague of the remaining bishopric in the world. Either that or Ratty Ratzinger and his cohorts will be alone in Rome with their memories while the rest of Europe and America enjoy a resurgence in the European and American Catholic Churches. The present intransigent, truculent, fossilized, top-heavy, rigid, deaf-and-dumb model cannot survive.

• Nicoletta | Apr 15, 2012, 09:56 AM EDT

  How can your readers trust anything that the IC has to say about the Catholic church when you are promoters of abortion????

• forflann | Apr 15, 2012, 09:41 AM EDT

  One has only to turn on HBO's The Borgias to see historical fact proving Papal infallibility is a myth!

• Portia777 | Apr 15, 2012, 09:23 AM EDT

  The Roman Catholic cult has nothing to do with jesus or christianity. it assumed leadership of the Catholic church, which is not the same at all. "The Roman Cult, also known as the Roman Catholic Cult of the Vatican was first officially founded in 1057 by chief pagan high priest of the cult of Magna Mater (Cybele) known as Gregory VII. The Roman Cult has never been the legitimate leadership of the Catholic Church. However, through a relentless campaign to seize and consolidate its power, this relatively small band of individuals now controls the destiny of over one billion good, Christian and ethical Catholics, who remained tricked into believing the legitimacy of the Roman Cult. A brutal and bloody cult -- involving child sacrifice, burning people alive (since 11th Century CE), demonic worship and absolute celibacy of its lowest priests -- its epicenter for such evil being the giant Phrygianum atop Vatican Hill since the 2nd Century BCE."

• Portia777 | Apr 15, 2012, 09:20 AM EDT

  I feel much better, now, that I have given up all hope...comes to mind