Pope’s comments on clerical abuse stir fury in victims

eff the church. it was a pope who sanctioned giving Ire to England centuries ago i red somewhere

To silence the truth to protect the image has done more damage to the RCC than the abusers of children. It is time for a new pope, THEN Vatican III to turn this church around.

You think that the Reformation should have been fought on the inside. But who's on the inside? Bishop Olmstead of Phoenix announced the excommunication of Sister Margaret McBride of St. Joseph's Hospital because she allowed an emergency abortion to save the life of a young mother of four. The hospital's president, Linda Hunt, has accepted the Bishop's decision to declare the hospital no longer Catholic. Hunt said, "Morally, ethically, and legally we simply cannot stand by and let someone die whose life we might be able to save." The bishops defend doctrines and practices by exercising their authority to cut people off from the Church. See also the comment of Sr. Maureen on IC's "Time to prosecute abuse cover-ups in the Catholic Church." She has said elsewhere that the only paths to reform of sexual abuse are "significant changes in child abuse legislation while continuing to point out the contradictions between the bishops’ statements of care and concern and their vicious actions in opposing reform. They must be held accountable for their crimes and mortal sins of commission and omission." I'll believe that reform from the inside is possible when I receive an invitation to chat with the bishops about how to identify and prosecute pedophiles; there are MANY laypeople with some knowledge who might help the bishops, but just like a generation ago, they drive us away for pointing out the need for change.

Diversity makes for better dialogue..Spot on,and Priests been married would be one of my reforms and have women Priests too.Christ never said Priests could not be married. But there is some things that are fundamental that i don't agree with when it comes to Protestantism.I think the reformation should have been fought for inside the Catholic Church,not break away from it..It sure as hell would have stopped alot of religious wars.

Yes, sirpeter, church politics is interesting. Anglicans are being torn apart by their political diversity, while Catholics are being torn apart by their political homogeneity. At least Anglicans have a democratic structure, the world-wide Anglican Communion, to deal with conflict, while Catholics have only an exclusively male, powerful hierarchy that keeps stumbling over its own mistakes. I'd put my money on the Anglicans to work out the needed reforms if only because Anglican priests and bishops are married and single, male and female, liberal and conservative. Diversity makes for better dialogue.

Why does anybody go to the catholic church? it is an abomination, run by a former Hitler youth, or popefuhrer and I lke to think of him. He is an abomination and no child is safe from the clutches of this church's priesthood.

eiriamach..as you say it's a tight-knit group and i do think there needs to be reforms.It's a powerful organization.The Vatican moves at a snails pace.Either way any real reform is going to come from within.And it's going to take alot more then a bunch of pedophile priests to see any worthwhile reforms.Ultra-conservative is an understatement,their main aim is to keep things exactly as they are.

Sirpeter, you may be right. I also think many seminarians today have mistaken their ultra-conservative political philosophy for a call to the priesthood. One way or another, it's a tight-knit group whose members look after one another's interests and sometimes neglect the welfare of their flocks. There've been priests and nuns in every generation of my family in the USA, so I'm sad to say that, but it's time for another reformation.

eiriamach..Everything you say makes logical sense to me, and i understand the difficulties rape victims and those who are violated face.The only thing i might question is when you say.."They were as capable of keeping vows of celibacy as anyone else" I think they join the church,not to work as a priest,but to have access to kids and they know they have protection,the last thing on their minds is holy orders.

Sirpeter, you also write, "At the end of the day it's the people who are demanding the hierarchy to expose these pedophiles in all Christian Churches. Which i totally agree with...." I think that there may never be a better occasion than in the wake of this scandal, for Catholic laity to set up a democratic church structure at last, to gain a real voice in how "their" church is run, how it spends "their" money (on conservative political agendas), and how it engages them, the faithful, in the work of God in the world. Having said that, I cannot believe anything of the sort will succeed in my lifetime. So as an alternative, I'd like to ask IrishCanuck why AC Rowan Williams has not instituted a "Roman Ordinariate" for the many millions of refugees from Vatican politics on this issue. You know, something like the "Anglican Ordinariate" that the pope set up to fast-track into Roman Catholicism those heterosexual Anglican priests and their followers who do not wish to extend the fellowship of their group to women or gay men. I found the pope's invitation to selected Anglican clergy mean-spirited. In order to gratify the wishes of conservative males, he explicitly excluded all others. It seems to me that if Christ had had to exclude on the basis of gender and orientation, He would not have extended an invitation to priestly service to any disciple. You can read a debate on the Ordinariate on Cahir D'Doherty's blog on "Gay sex workers can use condoms, women can't." Change your Church, Catholics, or join the Anglicans (called Episcopalians in the USA)!

To sirpeter's claim that the genetic urge keeps pedophiles active: My experience setting up rape crisis centers and working with police in the 1970s tells me that much of the reason why sexual felons repeat their crimes is simply that they get away with their crimes more easily than other felons. Rapists do not call in eye witnesses, so it is often the victim's word against the word of the accused unless the victim takes prompt action to have medical evidence collected. Threats often keep victims from reporting the crimes and going to hospitals. Even with evidence, juries can be biased against victims (especially sexually active female victims) when defense attorneys claim that the victims consented. At times the standard has been that if she resisted so strenuously that she's dead, then the accused is guilty of rape (and murder). So the conviction rate remains low for sexual abusers, and prosecutors know that. If a pedophile can abuse a child and go free, he/she will do it again. We need to face the difficulties of prosecuting sexual abusers, but that does not mean that we should back away from prosecuting them. I do not believe that the sexual-orientation DNA of any human being, pedophiles included, renders him or her immune to the operations of free will. Pedophile priests continued their abuse for decades because other priests remained silent. They were as capable of keeping vows of celibacy as anyone else.

@eiriamach & jamieLM..Forgot to answer this. "And you think the RC Church is its people, not its hierarchy?" Well it's the people who support the RC Church and without the people you don't have a Church or a hierarchy..Maybe i'm missing something.To be honest i'm not sure if organized religion is a good thing or not.They do alot of work in most Countries,alot of life saving work.Work that governments won't do.

@eiriamach & jamieLM..Gentlemen,I do not condone the behavior of pedophiles.Children have to be protected and those who participate in molestation of vulnerable children,needs to have the full weight of the law brought down on them.After all they do have free will.Yes i was defining evil in a religious context.I'm not a church goer and find alot of religious beliefs to be pure manipulative rubbish and downright repressive.But I'm not stupid enough to dismiss the church hierarchy Intelligence either.The Vatican is around an awful long time and have scores of devoted highly Intellectual men watching what is happening.At the end of the day it's the people who are demanding the hierarchy to expose these pedophiles in all Christian Churches.Which i totally agree with and by the way..the figures for pedophilia is equal in both Catholic and Protestant Churches.The figures are just easier to get because Catholicism is more centralized.I honestly think the churches are going to have a real problem with this,because it is the ground troops who are also turning a blind eye.All Churches and organizations who have access to Children are a magnet for pedophiles. Priests and Vicars do alot of work with vulnerable family's and the damage will be done before they are caught.Pedophiles will be willing to take that risk,because the genetic urge will over come freewill with many of them.

Thanks, JamieLM, and thank you for pointing out the physical trauma of victims, which can be worse than the psychological trauma. I too know of an infant rape victim that died. I share your anger to realize that, as authority figures, priests can entrap children through the children's own willingness to obey the representatives of Christ on Earth! Sirpeter and I would probably agree that even young children know that sex is a source of pleasure in the adult world, and they know that adults who love them do not allow them to enter that particular adult world. That's why children instinctively run from pedophiles. The fact that priests used priestly authority to entrap the most vulnerable is one of the worst horrors of the abuse saga. It should awaken moral outrage.

Very well said, eiriamach! Sirpeter, I disagree with you. ALL children are damaged by pedophilia. Even something that feels "pleasurable," leaves enormous feelings of guilt and shame for a lifetime that influences adult behavior. There's nothing good about pedophilia for children in any way. Genetics doesn't give pedophiles a pass. Alcoholism has a genetic component and we hold alcoholics accountable if they commit crimes while drunk. Sipeter, you're defining evil in a religious context. I see pedophilia as 100% morally evil. It's cruel, manipulative, and seductive. Pedophiles, and those who aid them, have flourished for years in the Church because they've taken advantage of parishoners that obey the authority of the Church and, in some cases, the almost "hero-worship" of priests by the parishoners who couldn't or wouldn't believe that any priest could be capable of betraying their trust. Well, now we know. It's too bad that the pedophiles weren't stopped because they've tainted all the good priests of the RCC. As a critical care RN, a mother, and a human being, I hate to see children suffer under any circumstances. This column is addressing the problem of pedophilia, so I post about that. I've helped drs. treat several little boys and girls in the ER who were injured by pedophiles. I won't go into the gruesome details, but the 6 month old died. We can get into semantics, but I've seen EVIL. So, yes, pedophiles anger me.