Pope planning 'radical' changes to Irish Catholic Church

Perhaps unquestioning Roman Catholics will heed the advice of one of their own . . continued**Consequently this massive institution seeks above all to preserve itself. Sexual abuse of children or anyone by members of the sacred elite is potentially disastrous for the image, credibility and hence the power of the Church. The bishops really believe that they are essential to the existence of the Church. Therefore protecting the hierarchy is essential and believed to be God’s will. The popes and the bishops did not have to conspire to keep sexual abuse by clergy buried as deeply as possible. The secretive response is in the blood of the bishops. It is rooted in the fundamental urge to survive. Disruption and disintegration of the monarchical structures of the Church means the end of the system of power and control as we know it. This poses an unthinkable threat to the clergy and to the clerical world. The threat is personal because this world, this monarchical institution, this magical theological support system is the past, present and future of the bishops. It is their source of identity. To change or destroy it is a threat to the very being of the clerics who feed off of it."****Fr Thomas Patrick Doyle OP, a US Dominican priest with a doctorate in canon law, is a renowned and outspoken advocate for church abuse victims.

Perhaps unquestioning Roman Catholics will heed the advice of one of their own . . continued**If all of these teachings were true, would there be a need for all of the secrecy? If these teachings were true, especially about the “Christ-like” nature of priests and bishops, would there be such widespread corruption, dishonesty and abuse found among clerics at every level? If all of these things were true!The problem is that there is no authentic historical evidence that any of it is true. The various titles, roles and offices attributed to popes, bishops and priests are not products of divine revelation but of human invention, often as a response and reaction to serious external threats to the power and wealth of the clerical aristocracy. For example, and it’s a good example, Papal Infallibility was literally invented by Pope Pius IX and forced through the First Vatican Council...for political reasons. The pope’s kingdom, the Papal States, was threatened with dissolution by the Italian social upheaval at the time. Likewise the title “Vicar of Christ” was part of a conscious program of a medieval pope to fortify papal power. This title has had a long and complex and by no means consistent history. It was not applied to the Papacy until the 13th century when Pope Innocent III took it to enhance his overall program of actively concentrating just about all power in the Church in the papacy.***Fr Thomas Patrick Doyle OP, a US Dominican priest with a doctorate in canon law, is a renowned and outspoken advocate for church abuse victims.

Perhaps unquestioning Roman Catholics will heed the advice of one of their own . . continued**This teaching is the foundation for the clerical culture that runs the Church. Clericalism is the belief that clerics (deacons, priests and bishops) are superior to lay persons and are rightfully entitled to deference, unquestioned respect and exemption from many of the obligations born by most lay people. This clerical world is the home of the men who make up the Church power structure. The Church teaches that this structure is the church. To be a Catholic, one must believe totally in the teachings about the nature of the church strictures and the sacredness of the Church’s clerical ministers.***Fr Thomas Patrick Doyle OP, a US Dominican priest with a doctorate in canon law, is a renowned and outspoken advocate for church abuse victims.

Perhaps unquestioning Roman Catholics will heed the advice of one of their own***Thomas Patrick Doyle's reflections on papal rule :Article: The secret secret of the Vatican / Tom Doyle – My Comments on Andrew Brown’s Blog /July 23, 2010 /"The Church is a visible institution. The Church teaches as official dogma that the Church as we know it, that is, a hierarchical structure that is totally run by celibate male clerics (mostly bishops), was instituted by Jesus Himself.  The Church teaches that the pope is the representative (Vicar) of Christ on earth. It teaches that Christ founded His church and left it in the control of the twelve apostles and explicitly willed that these apostles pass this power down to their successors. Consequently the official teaching is that the visible church is run by men who have been explicitly chosen by the Supreme Being. Furthermore the Church teaches that priests are fundamentally different than other humans.  They are, in the words of John Paul II, uniquely configured to Christ. Catholics are taught to believe that priests are special. They represent Jesus Christ. They have very special spiritual powers. Their intercession is essential for anyone who wishes to make it to heaven in the next life.***Fr Thomas Patrick Doyle OP, a US Dominican priest with a doctorate in canon law, is a renowned and outspoken advocate for church abuse victims.

Perhaps unquestioning Roman Catholics will heed the advice of one of their own***Thomas Patrick Doyle's reflections on papal rule :Article: The secret secret of the Vatican / Tom Doyle – My Comments on Andrew Brown’s Blog /July 23, 2010 / Link: http://www.richardsipe.com/Doyle/2010/2010-07-25.htm"The Church is a visible institution. The Church teaches as official dogma that the Church as we know it, that is, a hierarchical structure that is totally run by celibate male clerics (mostly bishops), was instituted by Jesus Himself.  The Church teaches that the pope is the representative (Vicar) of Christ on earth. It teaches that Christ founded His church and left it in the control of the twelve apostles and explicitly willed that these apostles pass this power down to their successors. Consequently the official teaching is that the visible church is run by men who have been explicitly chosen by the Supreme Being. Furthermore the Church teaches that priests are fundamentally different than other humans.  They are, in the words of John Paul II, uniquely configured to Christ. Catholics are taught to believe that priests are special.  They represent Jesus Christ. They have very special spiritual powers. Their intercession is essential for anyone who wishes to make it to heaven in the next life.****Fr Thomas Patrick Doyle OP, a US Dominican priest with a doctorate in canon law, is a renowned and outspoken advocate for church abuse victims.

To sum up? As an American, I look to Thomas Jefferson, who drew on the philosophy of his age: the legitimacy, or the right to command obedience, of any governing body depends upon "the consent of the governed." The laity of the 21st century are not likely to trust a monarchical form of government that makes laws and binding policy in secret, nor are half of them likely to trust all-male decision making. Vatican II documents support a de-centralization of power that allocates decisions to bishops and calls for efforts to achieve consensus between the people and their bishops. It recognizes the ministry of all lay persons. It places RCC among Christian denominations and respects the sacramental grace and divine inspiration that animate the others. It rebukes ecclesiastical ambitions that seek to triumph over other sects: Its founding concern is ecumenism. I enjoy reading Jacer's posts even though he often does not address the point under discussion. I've tried to summarize the common thread of the last few days' posts, and I invite Jacers to reply specifically. JuneAnnette's quotations from "Unless the Catholic hierarchy examines its obsession with power it cannot reform itself" address the same point in Fr. Doyle's words: "What is it about this culture that justifies [placing] image and clerical security far above the welfare of innocent children? Why does the 'people of God' ... need to function like a monarchy with an attendant clerical aristocracy? Why the narcissistic obsession with power, secrecy and control? Until the bishops and priests look deeply into this ... pathology, the outrageous behaviour exposed in the [Cloyne] report will be part of a shameful history."

Perhaps unquestioning Roman Catholics will heed the advice of one of their own . . continued ***OPINION: Unless the Catholic hierarchy examines its obsession with power it cannot reform itself / Date: Sat, Jul 16, 2011 / Source: Irish Times / Excerpt:Marie Collins, in her recent interview on RTÉ’s Prime Time , spoke the truth when she said that the promises and policies that have streamed from the bishops mean nothing. The report clearly reflects this sad reality: “It seems to the Commission that continuing external scrutiny is required.” Outside monitoring with serious consequences for neglect, and mandatory reporting by all clergy with possible jail time as a consequence for failure, are necessary responses.We must demand answers to even more radical questions. What is it about this culture that justifies living in an alternate reality that places image and clerical security far above the welfare of innocent children? Why does the “people of God”, as Vatican II described the church, need to function like a monarchy with an attendant clerical aristocracy? Why the narcissistic obsession with power, secrecy and control? Until the bishops and priests look deeply into this culture and acknowledge its pathology, the outrageous behaviour exposed in the report will be part of a shameful history.***Fr Thomas Patrick Doyle OP, a US Dominican priest with a doctorate in canon law, is a renowned and outspoken advocate for church abuse victims.

Perhaps unquestioning Roman Catholics will heed the advice of one of their own . . continued ***OPINION: Unless the Catholic hierarchy examines its obsession with power it cannot reform itself / Date: Sat, Jul 16, 2011 / Source: Irish Times / Excerpt: The clerical culture that cannot comprehend the depth of evil and destruction it has enabled has failed to internalise the reality that in this 21st century sacrificing the welfare of innocent children to maintain the image and power of an ecclesiastical aristocracy is a disgrace that will be the catalyst for an inevitable and profound change in the nature of the institutional church. The rapid disintegration of the absolute control of the Irish hierarchy over Irish society is the result not of the lack of faith of the Irish people, as some in ecclesiastical leadership would like to believe, but in the lack of fidelity of the leadership to the people whom they have sworn to serve. WORSE STILL WAS the use of pastoral care as a justification for protecting the accused priests at the expense of justice for the victims. The report saw the misuse of the pastoral concept as a “scheme whereby counselling was provided to the complainant in a manner which was hoped would not attract any legal liability to the diocese”.

Perhaps unquestioning Roman Catholics will heed the advice of one of their own***OPINION: Unless the Catholic hierarchy examines its obsession with power it cannot reform itself / Date: Sat, Jul 16, 2011 / Source: Irish Times / Excerpt: Cardinal Seán Brady said that “grave errors of judgment were made and serious failures of leadership occurred”. Bishop John Magee admitted that the diocese “did not fully implement the procedures set out in church protocols”. What happened in Cloyne and in Ferns, Dublin, and the institutions cannot be dignified as “grave errors of judgment” or incomplete implementation of church protocols. The systemic sacrifice of the emotional, psychological and spiritual lives of innocent children for the sake of the image and power of the hierarchy was no error. The Vatican response has been the defence of the hierarchy and the scandalous lack of concern for the victims. There are the expected expressions of regret, sorrow and promise of prayers which serve only to confuse and even anger the victims and are a very thin cover for the consistent pattern of self-serving support and protection of the bishops.***Fr Thomas Patrick Doyle OP, a US Dominican priest with a doctorate in canon law, is a renowned and outspoken advocate for church abuse victims.

I just discovered a new web site called "Misguided Missal [dot] com," which provides specific details that support the two points in my last reply to Jacers: 1) RCC withdrew from ecumenical discussions with other Christian denominations and 2) RCC refused to allow other Christian denominations any role in its recent liturgical revisions. A sample from "misguided Missal": "we are deeply concerned with Rome’s retreat from the principles and theology of the Second Vatican Council. --we believe that the rites emanating from Vatican II have deepened people’s understanding of the celebration of the Eucharist and appreciation of who Christ is and who we are each called to become. --we are deeply concerned with Rome’s need to silence those who express their concerns and with our bishops’ docile compliance. --we believe we should be able to expect more from our spiritual leaders who no longer speak for us or with us but simply to us. In the Documents of Vatican II, Lumen Gentium states “Like all Christians, the laity have the right to receive in abundance the help of the spiritual goods of the Church, especially that of the word of God and the sacraments from the pastors. To the latter the laity should disclose their needs and desires with that liberty and confidence which befits children of God.... By reason of the knowledge, competence or pre-eminence which they have, the laity are empowered – indeed sometimes obliged – to manifest their opinion on those things which pertain to the good of the Church.” Lumen Gentium, #37."

(... more) On that point, I would nominate the words of another Beatles’ song for JA – ‘She’s Leaving Home’. I don’t need to post the words of it here as JA wastefully did (twice... I repeat feranbejacerssake). I suggest she listens again and again and again to that song in her study’s collection (oh yes, she does seemingly have a collection of Beatles’ stuff in her secret hiding place, not far from her Bible) and remember, in a quiet moment that her ICentral pal jacers thinks that song depicts JA’s leaving the home of True Christianity after all the years it has been telling her, and many other people, of Christ’s message and His sacrificial passion for Love and Unity of all the people that God created. It’s ssuch a so-sad but true a song. Yet hope and trust constantly springs eternal in the minds of the parent Church of Christ. Please God, one day, if it’s on her last day on our earth, with her last breath even, JuneAnnette will come home to her parent Catholic Church.

(...more) What I posted was that “I can only deduce (from her posts) that hate (of the Catholic Church) fills her mind instead of the Love of Christ”. JA would appear to be incapable of changing that deduction but I wait and pray in hope for her to prove me humbly wrong, but especially that she finds her way to once again be in communion with the original parent church that Christ founded, of which the present Pope is the 265th direct-line successor of Peter, the man entrusted by our Christ to be the rock on which His Church stands, never to fall down whatever attacks it suffers like Jesus did, from misguided people like JA and her teacher-deceiver(s). >>> A classic yet simple example of her deceptive allegations is her betting that my favourite tune is the Beatles’ song of which words she posted, not once, but twice... thus doubly posting another deceptive lie :-))))) (more...)

Just don’t get me going!!! Jaysus! Are there any good men out there to help and support poor jacers in ‘dealing’ w/ these two Amazonian Christian wimmen??? (Just Kidding!) If JA and eiriamach would actually “éirigh amach as” (for JA’s and others’ info, that's gaelic for "rise out of”) their wavering yet solidly apparent weak entrenched positions and stand back to look again at what they’ve posted in their diversionary posts on this discussion about radical reforms of the Irish Catholic Church that Antoinette’s article above prompted, they would see the distortions from truth within them. Re JA’s Boo-hoo post, all I will say is “There, there now, Love, don’t be beside your imaginary doppelgänger self! jacers is here beside you, offering a comforting arm around your shoulder to bring you back to reality. Here’s a hanky, Love, I didn’t mean for my comments to be seen as insults - just factual conclusions any sensible gentleman with a handkerchief would come to on foot of your incredibly disparaging (whooo! - I almost typed ‘bitchy’) comments”. >> In fact, when JA’s posts first appeared on ICentral, I made a heartfelt plea for someone to wake her up to what is clearly a brain-washed state of mind, one that she has been ensnared in, such was (and continues to be) my heartfelt concern for her. JA completely misrepresents my post in positing that I find her posts lacking of Christian love... I said I find them to be a waste of time (actually I meant ‘waste of HER time’, not mine; I do read her posts). (More...)

In other words, the only way we have of controlling hell-bent, death-driven absolute power is to subject it to the will of the people, or democratic decision procedures. Gearoid4 and Jacers will reject this suggestion as "secular," "worldly," etc., but that rejection only indicates their lack of faith in the Christian sensus fidelium, which can claim in truth to be guided by the Holy Spirit!

JuneAnnette, you have described the concept that most Christians have of 'unity.' The RCC, however, rejects this concept and claims to be the "one-and-only true" church of Christ. Under the banner of the "One" true apostolic church, it has exerted great political power and in multifarious ways shaped and mis-shaped Western cultures. With its current ultra-conservative politics, it is doing serious harm to millions, not only the victims of clerical sex abuse. Its triumphalist approach began to change in the mid-1960s with the launch of Vatican II. Until recently, many Christians, for example most Anglicans, would have been content for the pope to be 'primus inter pares' or 'first among equals,' the one designated to speak the consensus of Christian beliefs for all, provided that he refrained from going beyond the consensus, or 'sensum fidelium.' As John Paul II said, also common sense, "The truth cannot impose itself except by virtue of its own truth, as it wins over the mind with both gentleness and power." This is very far from the current papal imperialism that presumes to command belief as though believing were the same as mindlessly obeying. Although Christian unity seems impossible at present, I think it remains not only a worthy but a necessary goal if only to avoid more harmful consequences of political power exerted by the institution that you call the "whore of Babylon." Unification may be possible at some future time when RCC returns to the foundations of Christian belief and practice, when its "clergy" resemble the disciples who set up the early Christian churches, and when its "authority" means only the shared sense of the faithful.