It was all going so well wasn’t it? The power-sharing executive had not only succeeded in running the full term but also being re-elected with a strengthened mandate. So encouraging was the environment that it left room for old enemies to embrace as Martin McGuinness met Queen Elizabeth in June 2012 and Peter Robinson made major speeches arguing for a closer relationship with the Irish government along with seeking to encourage Catholics to vote for his Democratic Unionist Party. The Northern Ireland problem it appeared had been solved for good.
That illusion was abruptly shattered in the aftermath of the decision by Belfast City Council to stop flying the Union flag 365 days a year, opting instead for designated days such as birthdays of members of the royal family. That was five weeks ago and numerous riots, £22 million of damage/lost revenue later the protests still seem to have no end in sight. But how can people be so worked up over a flag, I hear you say. Like all symbols it’s not the flag itself but what it represents that loyalists are protesting about.
Read more: Fascist groups now seen as behind Northern Ireland flag clashes
Since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement in 1998, the feeling has developed among many in working class Protestant communities that the peace dividend that was supposed to come from the agreement has passed over their communities. Take a look at education, currently only 1 in 10 Protestant teenagers from working class communities go on to university. In fact in nearly all educational attainment figures, Catholic children from similar backgrounds outperform their Protestant counterparts. So why does this matter? If you look at any footage of rioters one of the immediate components that will catch your eye is that many of those committing violence are young. We have seen countless examples around the world were educational underachievement simply breeds situations such as the one that Belfast is experiencing at the moment. The fact that after five years Northern Ireland politicians cannot find agreement over how to reform the education system merely compounds this problem.
The failure to tackle educational underachievement is only one part of this story. For years loyalism has been in the grips of an identity crisis as it has struggled to define itself within a rapidly changing Northern Ireland. The city of Belfast, once a bastion of Unionist support, is now at council level without a Unionist majority. The Progressive Unionist Party, which was seen as the main representatives for the Loyalist community, lost their only seat in the Northern assembly in the 2011 election. All these changes happen while they see Sinn Fein increasing their support across Ireland and gaining in confidence as they drive their agenda forward while Loyalists feel left on the side of the road.
The sense of political isolation is not helped by many of the Unionist politicians. Since this whole crisis began neither Robinson nor the Ulster Unionist leader, Mike Nesbitt, have gotten ahead of the curve on this issue. What the electorate have been treated to is a mix of knee jerk responses and confused statements from members of their parties. Both men have set up a Unionist forum to look into the grievances that the protestors are highlighting. Yet this must in reality only compound rather than alleviate the sense of drift and lack of leadership that exists within that community. The misguided desire for a coherent Unionist response to this crisis is part of the problem not the solution. Political leaders on both side of the divide need to climb off of grand visions of Northern Ireland and start addressing real concerns that are the real driver of this problem.
Read more: Northern Ireland police boss apologizes to nationalists for loyalist riots
But what about the protesters, since this entire saga began there is still no coherent agenda coming from the various leaders of the loyalist community? We have seen demands for the abolition of the executive to an apology from the Irish government over the failure to tackle the IRA during the Troubles. We are five weeks into this debacle and I still do not know what the protester's endgame is. What needs to happen now is some coherence and sense of purpose needs to be established by the Loyalist community in actually recognising what they want and use the political process to achieve it. While these protests may be useful in keeping their base motivated, it is eroding support among the rest of the population who are becoming increasingly fed up at either being blocked from returning home from work or seeing their businesses suffer as people stop venturing into the city centre. The Loyalists now have a clear choice they can either be at the table or they can end up on the menu.
David McCann is a PhD Researcher at the University of Ulster looking at Irish Politics. Follow him on Twitter @dmcbfs.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.seamus60 | Jan 29, 2013, 01:30 PM EST
FallsNat. Silence is golden.
seamus60 | Jan 22, 2013, 10:01 AM EST
FallsNat. Where have I said the brits were fearfull of a border poll ? And why would agents of the state infer so ?
FallsRNat | Jan 19, 2013, 07:56 PM EST
seamus60/irelandnorth - you 2 have to be agents of the british state spouting this nonsense about the brits being fearful of a border poll, Adams could a poll everyday, but under the GFA recognised & signed by all of the countries in UN, the only vote that counts is the all inclusive 6 counties, so apart from wasting vast amounts of irish euros, he will achieve absolutely nothing. That's of course, if the SI actually voted SF into power, nah, no chance, FF will take the republican vote in the next Irish elections.
SeamusMartin | Jan 19, 2013, 03:16 PM EST
Again.. blessed be the peacemakers.
FallsRNat | Jan 19, 2013, 01:17 PM EST
as a purely financial point - the cost analysis contribution from England to Wales Ulster Scotland is £6 billion, £10.7 billion & £12.7 billion so i can't see the logic in the transfer of NI to EU & frankly its pie in the sky stuff.
IrelandNorth | Jan 19, 2013, 03:24 AM EST
In an era of fiscal rectitude, savings of cSTG£10.5bn p/a is economically prudent on the year end balance sheet of Brittania plc. Unless they can be loyal for less. Thing is, where will the breaking poynt be found in the race to the bottom, that will challenge their famous Ulster-Scot monetary canniness.
curtisjohnson | Jan 18, 2013, 08:52 PM EST
" The orange barrackers are in denial Curtis. They spent more time in their lodges and the only education they received was from their fathers instilling that hate in their children after each lodge meeting." Yes, a lifetime devoted to hatred and a secret handshake cult does not produce academic excellence.
seanomelb | Jan 18, 2013, 06:50 PM EST
Irishnorth the only problem is some will want the lions share and as usual the nationalist will "miss out"
seamus60 | Jan 18, 2013, 03:31 PM EST
IrelandNorth. Thats a more likely reason for the brits to fear a border poll more than the one Adams has come up with. Lovely window dressing for an empty shop.
IrelandNorth | Jan 18, 2013, 02:53 PM EST
warrenpoint00/seamus60! Pointz taken. But to paraphrase Terry Wogan - I can feel it in my water that things are afoot whereby Westminister is seeking to transfer a costly budgetary discrepancy from aloss making post-colonial subsidiary onto the corporate balance sheet of the European Union (EU), with the Irish government as their man in Béal Feiríste.
seamus60 | Jan 18, 2013, 02:28 PM EST
Warrenpoint00. We have been hearing from certain people about all the great work they have been doing since they`re ceasefire, great work or not they are having serious trouble justifying their salaries and its not looking much better for them in the days to come. Nothing but cheats intent on ruling by fooling in order to keep the gravy train on track.
seamus60 | Jan 18, 2013, 02:22 PM EST
bicitaja. Hard not to turn up at the party when they decide its in your house and any window will do as a door knocker.
warrenpoint00 | Jan 18, 2013, 12:04 PM EST
IrelandNorth you write that the buzz word is a .."a shared future". The truth is the loyalist/unionist institute does not want to share ,never did and never will and that includes the most liberal of them.The thing is if you were living on someones stolen property gifted to you by an imperialist force I bet you would not want to share it either.Political unity is a buzz word for all the reformed political parties seeking votes of course but because of the bigoted loyalist/unionist mentality of these institutes it just does not work in my part of Ireland.
bicitaja | Jan 18, 2013, 11:15 AM EST
Let the Loyalists march through empty streets. When no Catholic opposition shows up to protest them, it will take the wind out of the Loyalist's sails and they may eventually give up. The loyalists want violent interaction. The Catholics should just not show up to the party.
IrelandNorth | Jan 18, 2013, 03:12 AM EST
The new buzz word by the respective political establishments of the British and/or Irish Isles is "... a shared future!" For Ulster - for Ireland - and for Great Britain too. The utimate sharing is voluntary political unity. Loyality, like any other service, can very often be far too costly. Macroeconomics trums democracy everytime.
seanomelb | Jan 18, 2013, 02:08 AM EST
The orange barrackers are in denial Curtis. They spent more time in their lodges and the only education they received was from their fathers instilling that hate in their children after each lodge meeting.
seamus60 | Jan 17, 2013, 09:49 PM EST
Curtis . Just proves how many of them depended on following their fathers into places like H&W.
aloistmartin | Jan 17, 2013, 09:35 PM EST
The Beer is Flowing ~
curtisjohnson | Jan 17, 2013, 08:35 PM EST
"Take a look at education, currently only 1 in 10 Protestant teenagers from working class communities go on to university. In fact in nearly all educational attainment figures, Catholic children from similar backgrounds outperform their Protestant counterparts." Somewhat remarkable considering that the unionist community has had all the advantages and been catered to for centuries in their supremacist playpen.
seamus60 | Jan 17, 2013, 07:25 PM EST
Warrenpoint. "We did surrender" I have long since accepted. Exactly when our leadership did is something quite differant. All those who fought and died ignorant of their Republican reality in between were quite a concession.
seanomelb | Jan 17, 2013, 06:11 PM EST
Torytory the Brits have rarely quit any of their colonies. They usually cause havoc and division in tyhose societies and then leave,slapping themselves on the back saying "we'll show them or run with their tails between their collective legs as they did in the 26 counties,the Crimea and the Americas to name a few. You are dead right torytory they never leave a colony with integrity and honour.
IrelandNorth | Jan 17, 2013, 02:13 PM EST
ToryTory! Interesting to note youaccuse Seano of doing with your posts exactly what your doing with mine. "We see others not as they are nut as we are!" (De Mello, 1987). Planters and settlers always have to see indigenoue peoples as "foreigners" to justify the landgrab. The Irish Paliamentary Party leader and Protestant Charles Stewart Parnell said: "No one has a right to put a halt to the march of a nation. No one has a right to say thus far shalt thou go and no further!" Ulster planter stock are welcome to throw in their lot in the reinvention of Ireland. But never to forever lower it a the pit of quicksand of partitionism.
ToryTory | Jan 17, 2013, 02:07 PM EST
God, you talk some amount of crap ancavker. The United Kingdom will not voluntarily and quite arbitrarily cede NI to the ROI - why would it sacrifice the territorial integrity of NI? You spout schoolboy fantasies that aren't based in any political reality; the ROI doesn't even have irredentist claims anymore on NI. Believe me, it's not going anywhere.
warrenpoint00 | Jan 17, 2013, 11:59 AM EST
Seamus with respect we did surrender but in all fairness it was a conditional surrender and unlike the 1922 surrender we did not compromise any part of our country this time around.I am sure you will agree that there is no political or military solution to our country,s problem.What I am sure of is that unionism/loyalism in our part of Ireland is a dying entity and in another 100 years in Ireland you will be hard pressed to find anyone of this political persuasion.I am sure you will agree that this will not be because of nationalist political persuasion or by bombs or bullets either. Of course you will have presbyterians and protestants just like anywhere else, living in Ireland.You may even have Willie Frazer type elements reminding people of how their powerful institutes of long ago were and you may even have a few union jacks flying but these are some of the things we nationalists agreed to in the surrender of 1994 anyway.What I am sure of is you will have a reunited Ireland, not by political persuasion or by bombs and bullets but by foreign intervention.The families of those foreign nationals that are now living in Ireland and presently being persecuted by the unionist community because they too are a threat to their little orange institute will have taken root and one day be a majority and so we will proceed with the democratic process and the reunification of Ireland.So with respect Seamus I believe that the answer is in the future and not in the past and the future does not look too bright for the bigoted loyalism of Willie Frazier and his friends, so yes I still say that the loyalist/unionist terrorists have and never will have won anything
warrenpoint00 | Jan 17, 2013, 11:58 AM EST
Seamus with respect we did surrender but in all fairness it was a conditional surrender and unlike the 1922 surrender we did not compromise any part of our country this time around.I am sure you will agree that there is no political or military solution to our country,s problem.What I am sure of is that unionism/loyalism in our part of Ireland is a dying entity and in another 100 years in Ireland you will be hard pressed to find anyone of this political persuasion.I am sure you will agree that this will not be because of nationalist political persuasion or by bombs or bullets either. Of course you will have presbyterians and protestants just like anywhere else, living in Ireland.You may even have Willie Frazer type elements reminding people of how their powerful institutes of long ago were and you may even have a few union jacks flying but these are some of the things we nationalists agreed to in the surrender of 1994 anyway.What I am sure of is you will have a reunited Ireland, not by political persuasion or by bombs and bullets but by foreign intervention.The families of those foreign nationals that are now living in Ireland and presently being persecuted by the unionist community because they too are a threat to their little orange institute will have taken root and one day be a majority and so we will proceed with the democratic process and the reunification of Ireland.So with respect Seamus I believe that the answer is in the future and not in the past and the future does not look too bright for the bigoted loyalism of Willie Frazer and his friends, so yes I still say that the loyalist/unionist terrorists have and never will have won anything
warrenpoint00 | Jan 17, 2013, 11:58 AM EST
Seamus with respect we did surrender but in all fairness it was a conditional surrender and unlike the 1922 surrender we did not compromise any part of our country this time around.I am sure you will agree that there is no political or military solution to our country,s problem.What I am sure of is that unionism/loyalism in our part of Ireland is a dying entity and in another 100 years in Ireland you will be hard pressed to find anyone of this political persuasion.I am sure you will agree that this will not be because of nationalist political persuasion or by bombs or bullets either. Of course you will have presbyterians and protestants just like anywhere else, living in Ireland.You may even have Willie Frazer type elements reminding people of how their powerful institutes of long ago were and you may even have a few union jacks flying but these are some of the things we nationalists agreed to in the surrender of 1994 anyway.What I am sure of is you will have a reunited Ireland, not by political persuasion or by bombs and bullets but by foreign intervention.The families of those foreign nationals that are now living in Ireland and presently being persecuted by the unionist community because they too are a threat to their little orange institute will have taken root and one day be a majority and so we will proceed with the democratic process and the reunification of Ireland.So with respect Seamus I believe that the answer is in the future and not in the past and the future does not look too bright for the bigoted loyalism of Willie Frazer and his friends, so yes I still say that the loyalist/unionist terrorists have and never will have won anything
warrenpoint00 | Jan 17, 2013, 11:58 AM EST
Seamus with respect we did surrender but in all fairness it was a conditional surrender and unlike the 1922 surrender we did not compromise any part of our country this time around.I am sure you will agree that there is no political or military solution to our country,s problem.What I am sure of is that unionism/loyalism in our part of Ireland is a dying entity and in another 100 years in Ireland you will be hard pressed to find anyone of this political persuasion.I am sure you will agree that this will not be because of nationalist political persuasion or by bombs or bullets either. Of course you will have presbyterians and protestants just like anywhere else, living in Ireland.You may even have Willie Frazer type elements reminding people of how their powerful institutes of long ago were and you may even have a few union jacks flying but these are some of the things we nationalists agreed to in the surrender of 1994 anyway.What I am sure of is you will have a reunited Ireland, not by political persuasion or by bombs and bullets but by foreign intervention.The families of those foreign nationals that are now living in Ireland and presently being persecuted by the unionist community because they too are a threat to their little orange institute will have taken root and one day be a majority and so we will proceed with the democratic process and the reunification of Ireland.So with respect Seamus I believe that the answer is in the future and not in the past and the future does not look too bright for the bigoted loyalism of Willie Frazer and his friends, so yes I still say that the loyalist/unionist terrorists have and never will have won anything
warrenpoint00 | Jan 17, 2013, 11:57 AM EST
Seamus with respect we did surrender but in all fairness it was a conditional surrender and unlike the 1922 surrender we did not compromise any part of our country this time around.I am sure you will agree that there is no political or military solution to our country,s problem.What I am sure of is that unionism/loyalism in our part of Ireland is a dying entity and in another 100 years in Ireland you will be hard pressed to find anyone of this political persuasion.I am sure you will agree that this will not be because of nationalist political persuasion or by bombs or bullets either. Of course you will have presbyterians and protestants just like anywhere else, living in Ireland.You may even have Willie Frazer type elements reminding people of how their powerful institutes of long ago were and you may even have a few union jacks flying but these are some of the things we nationalists agreed to in the surrender of 1994 anyway.What I am sure of is you will have a reunited Ireland, not by political persuasion or by bombs and bullets but by foreign intervention.The families of those foreign nationals that are now living in Ireland and presently being persecuted by the unionist community because they too are a threat to their little orange institute will have taken root and one day be a majority and so we will proceed with the democratic process and the reunification of Ireland.So with respect Seamus I believe that the answer is in the future and not in the past and the future does not look too bright for the bigoted loyalism of Willie Frazer and his friends, so yes I still say that the loyalist/unionist terrorists have and never will have won anything
ancavker | Jan 17, 2013, 10:48 AM EST
barney: Who Pays? Who knows? But if the English decide they want to be rid of the place (the north), who can force them to stay. Never say never. It could happen.
ancavker | Jan 17, 2013, 10:48 AM EST
barney: Who Pays? Who knows? But if the English decide they want to be rid of the place (the north), who can force them to stay. Never say never. It could happen.
seamus60 | Jan 17, 2013, 09:01 AM EST
Seano. What your last post has in referance to mine is somewhat confusing since I have never denied any of the injustices, even the ones you mention carried out between the working class, who heavily outnumber any other section of the dead and injured during the war. Nothing new here, its always been the wee man who sacrifices most. As for being selective, with respect its not me who is in denial of the present day injustices that are being carried out against the working class.When you stick to the truth and call a spade a spade its hard to loose the arguement.
stephendoyle | Jan 17, 2013, 08:31 AM EST
The percieved minority group in NI will always be out causing trouble. It brings attention to their cause.....
ToryTory | Jan 17, 2013, 07:46 AM EST
Curitiba, the Met engaging the Romanian police is solely to apprehend Romanian, criminal, nationals. There is no precedent in soliciting foreign policing to deal with domestic unrest. Utter fool. IrelandNorth: talking crap like usual. And Sean, would rather insult that offer even a vein of argument.
IrelandNorth | Jan 17, 2013, 03:58 AM EST
ToryTory! The common semantic demoninator of the Irish national police force - Án Gárda Síochána na h'Eireann and the neo-provincial police force - Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI)/(Án Serbhís Poílíní na Túarscírt Éireann) is Eireann/Ireland. How foreign is that? Though I is is a recognisable symptom of neo-imperialism to enforeignate indigenous people. A tad projection goin' on? barneyjoe! Hystoria will indeed be the final arbiter. STEVENSTAR! Nice to see ya have a sense of humour. Just when I though Ulster Presbyterians were a dour lot. I'm beginning to warm to ya - me auld flower! Curitiba! Some of us would be highly surprised if many a Public Order Unit (POU) Garda hadn't done there battle innoculation on the street of Belfast or Derry since the Good Friday [and Lisbon] Agreement (GFA). seamus60! How do ya explain Protestant working class loyalty to an aristocratic class which isn't even in the same socioeconomic stratosphere? Curitiba! The real mainland is Europe.
Curitiba | Jan 17, 2013, 02:24 AM EST
If an Englishman decides he wants to intimidate and be racist towards his Irish neighbour in England, he won't be getting any big blocks of cash from Westminster for that. But when a British man decides that he wants to to do the same to his Irish neighbour in NI, they expect the full support of the state. I think they will find that will no longer be the case, due to budget cuts. Plus a lot of people in England are sick of their actions. There's no longer any common bond between them because you would have to go back further than American Independence to find a common ancestor between those on the Mainland and their "kith and kin" in NI.
seanomelb | Jan 16, 2013, 09:18 PM EST
Sure Seamus that's why then did the wee folk murdrer or beat almost to death nationalists who were given jobs in Harland and wolf and other industries such as the wee dram factory. How selective can you be!!! Anglo My boy I can walk down any street in Melb and not have to worry about what religion I may or may not adhere to. Walk down Donegal pass waving the tricolour ans see how far you get
anglo-norman | Jan 16, 2013, 07:02 PM EST
Seanomelb loves Ireland so much that he emigrated to Australia...
seamus60 | Jan 16, 2013, 06:56 PM EST
Seano. Theres a fair amount of truth in FallsNats last post. Any socialist will recognise and acknowledge that the ordinary wee Nationalist on the Falls Road has a lot more in common with the ordinary wee loyalist on the Shankill Road than either have with their same living up the Malone Road. We don`t see too many protests in high employment area`s like the bible belt. It is always very easy to get those closer to poverty onto the streets regardless of their reason. He is right also about the politicians doing so well for so little return. Unfortunately the flag issue will once again allow the same politicians the type of deflection they can only dream of, when they are being challenged over their lack of progress on the subject of delivering what the poorest need most. Gerry kelly tonight on the Nolan show used the recent survey results that 36 of the most 40 deprived wards were Nationalist as proof that loyalists were`nt being stripped of anything. Tomorrow he will be spoofing his load about all that he and his party have got Nationalists since they got into Gov. It can`t be both.
Curitiba | Jan 16, 2013, 06:10 PM EST
torytory: Uniformed Romanian police officers accompany Metropolitan Police officers in London when dealing with crime involving the Romanian community, so there is a precedent of a UK police force soliciting a foreign police force to deal with UK law and order issues. So it's best to do your research properly before shooting your mouth off and making yourself look a prat.
seanomelb | Jan 16, 2013, 05:51 PM EST
S/Read "altough I do not always agree with IrelandNorth". Stevenstar has just corroborated my post on him,how sad. Thats it Fallser find an excuse to back the thuggery. I like many came from poor beginnings,I did not have to riot to rise above my poverty to become wealthy. Get the point man.
FallsRNat | Jan 16, 2013, 05:38 PM EST
there are other causes here, the peace process has served the politicians well & they have made a good living off of it, the working class have high unemployment, little prospect of getting on housing ladder & even if they leave with high education passes, they are now competing for jobs in a Europe recession. The closure of traditional high street businesses hasn't helped, both HMV & Blockbuster have fallen victim to less consumer & internet spending. Yes, the Loyaists have identified the flag issue as their rallying call, but the answer this time goes beyond the underlying sectarian tensions between the 2 communities & has more to do with socio-economic issues.
STEVENSTAR | Jan 16, 2013, 05:30 PM EST
@@IrelandNorth | Jan 16, 2013, 03:47 AM EST >>>IRELAND NORTH I OFTEN WONDER IF YOU ACTUALLY WORK, AS U SAY YOU PAY TAXES ? .. WELL AS FAR AS I CAN SEE , THAT YOU SPEND MOST OF YOUR DAY ON HERE LEAVING VERY @LONG WINDED@ MESSAGES .....YOU SEEM LIKE A VERY OPIONATED MAN ... GOD HELP ANYONE THAT HAS TO LIVE WITH YOU LIKE A WIFE OR YOUR BOYFRIEND..WHATEVER YOU SWING ... HAHA!!! YOU JUST COME ACROSS AS A VERY ANGRY MAN ... CHILL OUT FOR GODS SAKE .. LIFE IS TOO SHORT MATE ..
seanomelb | Jan 16, 2013, 05:22 PM EST
Some of the posts below are atad pedantic and more clarity is needed. Woundeknee may be suffering from "multiple personality disorder" ONe post he's with you and in the next post he flips 180 degrees. He knows not whether he's Arthur or Martha.Torytory does not have a personality, like stevenstar they only spew hate. IF the Orange rampaging thugs suffer from an inadequate education system who's fault is that?? If they perceive the nationalists as having a superior education system maybe they should look and learn. Personally I don't buy the "education Card" as the reason for the riots. IN my opinion it is used by those as an excuse to back the rioters. Altouhg I do not agree with Ireland North he always writes a reasonable piece.hardhitting sometimes and other times to subtle for the likes of W/knee,Stevenstar and co.
seamus60 | Jan 16, 2013, 02:30 PM EST
Warrenpoint. With respect you don`t surrender unless your beaten. We surrendered, not through the lack of trying but through the treason of a corupt leadership. Woundedknee being witness to the same with a certain SF`er ( no longer with us with good reason)being sent to his neck of the woods to shut down a very deserving component of the struggle and replacing it with yesmen. Loyalists have never been sitting so pretty and its millitant loyalists (left behind through stupidity) who are now controlling the genie Robinson let out of the lamp in a last ditch effort to claw something for all their years of trouble.
STEVENSTAR | Jan 16, 2013, 09:18 AM EST
SORRY BUT PEACE IS NOT SHATTTERED.. IM IRISH I LIVE HERE AND AS MOST PEOPLE IN IRELAND AND IN THE UK KNOW THIS IS ONLY A SMALL TINY TINY MINORITY WHO ARE DOING THIS ..... SO PLEASE PLEASE IRISH CENTRAL LESS OF THE AMERICAN STYLE DRAMA NEWSPAPER REPORTING !!!!!!!!!!! THANK U
barneyjo | Jan 16, 2013, 08:39 AM EST
@Irelandnorth - I am content to let history be the final arbiter on that potential outcome :) !!
ToryTory | Jan 16, 2013, 06:32 AM EST
IrelandNorth: Don't be a prat all your life. Why would a foreign police force be solicited to deal with domestic civil unrest?
IrelandNorth | Jan 16, 2013, 03:47 AM EST
warrenpoint02:59! Answer could be to provide elective frontal lobotomies on the National Health Service (NHS). WoundedKnee! warrenpoint's actually on yer side. Care to check the pressure gauge of that ego of yours and let some air out? Oh! Sorry, you are! Kneejerkery is counter productive! ancavker! Yep, were all headin' towards some mutually beneficial federalism on the British and/or Irish Isles, to keep our respective mainlanders happy. barneyjoe! Who pays for unity? The Irish taxpayer (69% of whom expressed a willingness to do so (incl myself!) in the Ipsos/MRBI 50th anniversary survey, 2012 syndicated by Ireland's quality broadsheet - The Irish Times), part funded by respective mainlanders in the European Union (EU) - of course! Joe Kelsall! There are Protestant Irish republicans as well as Roman Catholic pro-British unionists, though they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. My point being that national flags aren't always coterminious with religios affiliation, though unfortunately very often are. But the demographic drift to which you refer IS inexhorable and inevitable. Instead of resisting loyalists should be assisting. There'll be a whopper of an Irish 4th of July yet. Yer all welcome to the party! The future of both the British and/or Irish Isles is voluntary mutuality, with the help of our repsective mainlanders. We need more Alliances and Naomi Long's - not less!
warrenpoint00 | Jan 15, 2013, 08:35 PM EST
"It ,therefore, follows that protestants must now be in the minority in Ireland". Is that not a lovely, lovely piece of English???.I think that this is just a beautiful piece of grammar. WoW (sorry ,wrong grammar. )Man I just keep reading it,,,,,,,,,my question is?.What does it mean?.No point asking Joe aka Wounded the illiterate poster boys for british unionist/loyalist terrorists.Sorry Joe Wounded if i did not cross my T,s and dot my i,s but i am sure you get my message.Your british terrorist friends have won nothing.
jgdawson | Jan 15, 2013, 08:01 PM EST
@WoundedKnee, I do not know what you are reading to get your facts, but I would suggest that you read IrelandNorth's post and follow up on the sources. The fact remains, that the people who are rioting are the same people who claim the moral higher ground in N.I. They claim British culture which they do not have the first idea of what that looks like because they did not grow up in that environment - they grew up in N.I. which is quite different. Finally, all the latest polls in the U.K. find a majority of the British people surveyed would just as soon have N.I. returned to the Republic. The bottom line is that bigotry, hatred and unforgiveness is still alive and well in N.I. regardless of the "ceasefire". Until we get to the place of accepting our differences and creating a culture of honor and respect, these underlying issues will continue to thwart well intentioned efforts at a true peace.
warrenpoint00 | Jan 15, 2013, 07:55 PM EST
You really are very wound up WOUNDED maybe your doin a bit too much of that legalized content that is now available in your liberal state.You talk of Tone and Emmett just like your terrorist loyalist/unionist friends talk about 1690.Man you idiots are still in a time warp.... you loyalist terrorist apologist.You really have gone right down on your Wounded knees this time DUDE.Providing words of comfort to a bunch of bigoted illiterate individuals some what like your self might i add, that gather every night on Netownards Rd to terrorize the peace loving people of Ireland while you sit in a liberal state 3000 miles away spewing your inflammatory messages of support to british terrorists.Time now for you to load up that magic pipe, squat and dream of what you might have been if you had not lost your little skirmish with the Vietnamese.Dude
Joe Kelsall | Jan 15, 2013, 06:14 PM EST
Judging by the posts below, a fair proportion of the writers have abdicated responsibilty for grammar spelling and punctuation. First prize must go to warrenpoint00, who seems to have abandoned any attempt at written English. His submission would be a great example of the type of challenge that young students could attempt to correct for punctuation, paragraphs and comprehension. It seems to me, that if Catholics now comprise 45% of the NI population, then the other 55% of the population must comprise Protestants AND the various religions of the most recent immigrants. It, therefore, follows that Protestants must now be in a minority in Northern Ireland. Bring out the Tricolour"
barneyjo | Jan 15, 2013, 06:01 PM EST
@ancavker - well someone will have to continue to pour billions into the North just to keep it afloat. At present, for every eight people in full time employment in NI, FIVE work for the State; no private sector worth speaking of. So in order to keep all shades of opinion in the manner to which they have accustomed, WHO PAYS???????
ancavker | Jan 15, 2013, 04:48 PM EST
Wounded: If Scotland leaves the UK, all bets are off. Even if they vote to stay, you will have a sizeable minority that will have voted yes to independence. Even for those who vote no, many of them stil want more powers for the Scottish parliament. So ultimately the makeup of the UK is going to change drastically. Why will English taxpayers still want to pour billions into the north?
seanomelb | Jan 15, 2013, 04:24 PM EST
Tory tory tory tory!! the rioting thugs are been judged by their ignorant protests so much for a segragated education system. It would appear that a certain section of the Orange mob do not want their children educated as they may welcome an inclusive 32 county Oreland.
WoundedKnee | Jan 15, 2013, 03:32 PM EST
What a laugh. Our clown poster Warrenpoint (I suspect more accurately Warrenpint) is telling us how uneducated the Loyalist working-class people are. Listen, you bigot, get someone to check your posts for grammar and spelling before you criticize others. As regards content, you can check with me--it's garbage. You're a Six County bigot, you know nothing of the Republicanism of Tone and Emmett.
warrenpoint00 | Jan 15, 2013, 02:59 PM EST
These unionist/loyalist flag waving terrorists like their forefathers were not too educated to begin with so I cant see further education for them being beneficial so your excuse about deprived education for these people does,nt stand as far as we northern nationalists are concerned.One only has to listen to Willie Frazer one of their leader spokespersons and you can determine very quickly that this particular bunch of terrorists are not too bright.Their terrorist activity and their perceived endgame is a very simple plan that stems from that very old and ignorant unionist/loyalist tradition that proclaims a protestant state for a protestant people.This flag waving furore is not about rights basically it is demonstrating a deep hatred for all catholic/nationalist people of Ireland and they have inherited this from their deeply bigoted ignorant forefathers and all the education in the world and all the free financial aid that these people receive will not change that hatred.Time is not on these british terrorists side, they are becoming more of a minority and very soon they will be unheard of and Ireland will again become peaceful just like it was before these british foreigners were forcibly introduced to our country.Contrary to those kind and encouraging words of comfort to them from WOUNDEDKNEE, as an Irish nationalist I can assure you that these terrorists have won nothing.
IrelandNorth | Jan 15, 2013, 02:45 PM EST
ALL of Ulster isn't British. In fact, even ALL of Northern Ireland (NI) isn't even British. Only 40% of NI population identified themselves as British only, whilst 25%/21% identified themelves as Irish/Northern Irish respectively, (a 6% majority!) (Source: Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (NIS&RA) Household Survey, 2011). These loyalists lads need to get their facts right. And besides, Ulster was failed five generations ago when Messrs Carson, Craig, Crawford and Company (CCC&C) not only succeeded in partitioning a nation, but partitioning a province too. The Chief [Serviceor] of the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI), (An Serbhís Poílíní na Tuarscírt Éireann) is obviously underresourced, and should urgently call upon Án Gárda Síochána na h'Éireann (ÁGSÉ) for mutual backup and assistance, since civil unrest in Ulster adversely affects the other three provinces of Ireland. And since Willie Frazer was impressed in his dealingss with AGSE apropos taking his flags protest up to Dublin, the Leinster provincial/and national capitol, (from Belfast, the Ulster provincial capitol) there should be no problem with his loyalists flags protestors.
irishpjk | Jan 15, 2013, 12:29 PM EST
wtf. Someone told me that Bill and Hillary brought peace to Ireland and that the troubles are all behind us, what happened?
RedBranch | Jan 15, 2013, 12:23 PM EST
Right on WoundedKnee! Now apparently the level of educational achievement in Protestant East Belfast is abismal and I would tend to concur. Just who is in charge? To paraphrase President Obama, "Whose ass should be kicked?' Well what a surprise its Sinn Fein and has been for a number of years. That ass with a target must be John O'Dowd then.
WoundedKnee | Jan 15, 2013, 12:11 PM EST
Someone should tell these young people that their side won. Northern Ireland is more firmly part of Britain than it ever was. Adams and Co surrendered, because their organization was riddled with spies and British agents and was no longer viable. How far up the hierarchy these spies went may never be uncovered, tho I am reminded that the deadliest government agent, a traitor who betrayed the leadership of the United Irishmen and caused the deaths of thousands, was only unmasked decades after he sold his country in 1798. There is no possibility of another armed campaign that would have any support from with the Catholic community. The Southerners voted maybe 10 or 12 years ago to withdraw the historic claim that Ireland was one country. The changing demographic of the 26 Counties--one in five is a foreign national-- means that there are ever more people who have no identification with Ireland and care nothing about uniting it. Hence, a little silly tokenism about flags is a small price to pay for the guarantee the Loyalists have of the British presence. They should be celebrating a historic victory.
ToryTory | Jan 15, 2013, 12:08 PM EST
This piece doesn't even attempt to adequately analysis the proximate cause of the civil unrest, instead it lazily compartmentalises the rioters as a bunch of ignorant lowlifes: the political dimension of the whole affair - the stoking of hate by Sinn Fein - is adroitly whitewashed under the veneer of ignorance. The concerns of the working class are irrelevant, right? Who cares about the concerns of the ignorant rabble. The fact that there are a disparate number of demands or objectives is hardly surprising: in any given matter a number of agents will try to appropriate the affair for their own benefit, demanding the satisfaction of a number of grievances. Why is this a surprise to the authour? That doesn't in anyway detract from the proximate cause - which is as clear as the light of day - that grievances were felt over a shameful piece of politicking from the nationalist dominated Belfast Council. What the hell did they expect?
RedBranch | Jan 15, 2013, 12:05 PM EST
Ah yes SeamusMor, a nice sentiment indeed one which was must have inspired certain members of the Parachute Regiment on a certain Sabbath day in a certain Maiden City 41 years ago this month. And look how that turned out!
SeamusMor | Jan 15, 2013, 11:32 AM EST
Ignorant peasant rabble! Hoodlums and criminals wearing masks! Napoleon would give this mob "a wiff of grape shot"
irishimport | Jan 15, 2013, 11:11 AM EST
Its the same thing that happened to the catholic minority when i was growing up and if you got the education the protestant majority had all the jobs and I might addd that they werent as well educated either but for the fact that they were protestant was all that was needed. Now its a different story and they have to compete. In the past an uneducated protestant still got a job and was able to provide for his family etc. So what goes around comes around
6countybrit | Jan 15, 2013, 10:05 AM EST
Unionist Orange veto, what a load of ball locks. It,s not 1950 any more piling so lets get that fact right. Are Sinn Fein not a facist organisation? Are the Hibernians not a facist organisation? Two big wrong sides to this argument dick head.
pilib04 | Jan 15, 2013, 09:09 AM EST
I beg to differ with the author's premise. They do have an "end game." It has always been referred to as the Unionist Veto or Orange Veto! As soon as Sinn Fein began asking for a plebiscite on partition, the Unionist started acting out. That is what the current Unionist Forum is all about. Finally what end game do you thing those Fascist organizations such as BNP, Britain United and the UVF, have in mind?