Papal Nuncio asks Irish to reflect on their ancestors' Catholic faith during tough times

eiriamach, part2: Although SNAP’s name contains the word "priest", with contemporaneous cases of Catholic clergy abuse all but drying up (how many more times can they and their disreputable contingency lawyer friends dig up the same old cases from the 1960s?), these charlatans are increasingly having to find business elsewhere - "rabbis, bishops, and Protestant ministers and increasingly, victims who were assaulted in a wide range of institutional settings like summer camps, athletic programs, Boy Scouts, etc." they say. How touching.

Excellent observation, WoundedKnee.

eiriamach is a Protestant fundamentalist. She has every right to believe what she wants, but she should butt out of discussions about the Catholic Church. We Catholics don't stick our noses into the affairs of the Bush Baptists!

The Papal Nuncio's example of the faith of Ireland's ancestors in "times of persecution, famine and even forced emigration," asking the Irish people to reflect on its' value, would not be possible, were it not for actions related a former Papal Nuncio. A survey of Irish history shows Catholicism would have been severely diminished in Ireland, if not eradicated, without the defense of this (English) Papal Nuncio. The recent appointment of P.N. Brown indicates, aside from genuine merit, the Magesterium is also aware of its Irish history, Elizabethan in addition to recent, assets as well as liabilities.

@Eiriamach - thank you for the steer. I will follow through and comment further if anything gels with me. I must say I had thought you were resident in Ireland, though I now assume that is not the case :)

Barneyjo, if you visit this page again, I'm curious about whether the "Tablet" writer Robert C. Mickens' speech at the Cleveland Club on 11.16.12 had an impact in Ireland. He spoke of the ongoing "implosion" at the Vatican. It's available on You Tube and various blogs in case you're interested. (He made remarks similar to some comments you've written on IC.)

Your optimism is a blessing, barneyjo! "If patience is worth anything, it must endure to the end of time. And a living faith will last in the midst of the blackest storm."-- Mahatma Gandhi

@eiriamach - never hopeless. The truth has a habit of revealing itself, even to doubters and apologists........eventually!!!!

It seems quite hopeless to attempt any discussion with people like Mortimer, who writes about an "anti-Catholic cabal (neo-atheistic media, SNAP." They have their conspiracy theories and imaginary enemies lined up to blame, and they will not admit to the fault being in their own institution. SNAP has done untold good for victims of sex abuse. SNAP has also fought the diabolical secrecy of the Vatican and bishops by keeping the media focused on the problem. And what the heck is a "neo-atheist"? These RC Defenders are very, very far from being able to deal with reality.

@Mortimer74 - Respectfully, I have to disagree. What the church says it has done, and what has actually been done has not been borne out in all instances. Take here in Ireland for example. Bishop John Magee of Cloyne (Cork) Diocese; a former personal secretary to three Popes had to resign after it had been shown that Dr Magee had deliberately misled and falsified reports on what had actually been done to ensure compliance with guidelines which had been introduced by the Conference of Irish Bishops in the first place. He is shown to have lied to the Church's own watchdog in falsified reports, whilst sending verbatim reports to the CDF in Rome. It is only this week that a new Bishop has been appointed to Cloyne Diocese; a former parish priest from the neighbouring diocese of Kilaloo. So, even after guidelines have been introduced, here in Ireland, in the United States, in Australia, senior members of the hierarchy have been found to have wilfuly flouted their own guidelines when it suited them. Now this suggests to me that there is not yet complete and true remorse for the abject failures of the past and present. And until there is, I believe God will continue to hold a mirror up to the church, as if to say "you need to do more" before true renewal is possible.

Dear Arcbishop Charlie Brown, The horse is out of the barn and the emplero has notand the emperor has no clothes. You talk of the anguish you experience over the sexual abuse crisis. The Irish people have gone beyond anguish to disgust, because the pope and the cardinals have never taken true responsibility for the clerical crimes. This, more than "secularism" is the reason for the religious decline. Charlie, face it, you have zero credibility. Better just to remain silent and try to preach by your example, if you can.

Part 2 Mortimer74 Why would you ask about abuse in other denominations and schools? How does that impact the Catholic Church clergy? Does that now make it alright because others are doing the same? I'm tired of hearing excuses. The true colors of the church were revealed in the extent of the cover up and inaction by the church hierarchy to address the abuse during the past 50 or so years and before that. You mention that the church has paid out billions and even have the audacity to write “(erroneously in many cases)”. What a lame comment. Just imagine how many thousands of raped children that are dead through suicide, drug abuse, or mental illness caused by the clergy that did not or will not receive any compensation. The victims who have received compensation are just the tip of an iceberg so don't demean the victims who were abused and cast doubt about the authenticity of their abuse. There are many more victims who are afraid to expose themselves to the publicity and have their families and friends know about the molestation that was inflicted upon them. As I mentioned in another comment, there are still clergy in 2012 stating publicly that the children brought it on themselves by tempting the clergy. One can extrapolate from that public comment that there are many others in the church who hold similar views. The responsibility for this widespread molestation squarely rests with the Vatican because they are the entity that appoints and/or approves the church hierarchy from priest to pope, but while I have seen dioceses sell off property to pay claims to victims, I have yet to read anything about the Vatican dipping into their billions of dollars to compensate the victims. Just saying !!!

Part 1 Mortimer74 The Catholic Church has been forced to take action because of the publicity. As long as there was a semblance of hope that the abuse could be hidden away and brushed off as isolated incidents, the Catholic Church hierarchy cajoled victims and their families to remain silent and assured them action was being taken, but of course the only action being taken was to transfer the rapist molester to another parish. It is now clear that the molestation was not, and is not a local phenomenon, it is a world wide epidemic and a conspiracy of silence throughout the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy. The only way I would feel confident that the church is really being sincere and honest is for all the church hierarchy from priests to pope take lie detector tests with pertinent questions about their actions and knowledge of the raping of children by church officials. Once that was done with the result being made public and all offenders being removed from the church and be required to register as sex offenders throughout the world, then one could say that the church is being proactive. Until then, this is all damage control to prevent further erosion of the money making machine.

Mortimer I am not anti any religion I choose to be an atheist and I expect you to respect that right as I respect your right to be "religious". It is you who's the bigoted one moron. Jacer Jesus the man is what would be called a "social liberal" in this century. His teachings were hijacked by Paul and others to further their own agenda. If you both wish to muddle your thoughts with unsubstantiated fairytales be my guest.Maybe you both are incapapble of independant thought. You both sound like a couple of brainwashed priests.

@barneyjo, sorry but I have to disagree. That the church has too often failed to address past problems of abusive clergy has been frankly admitted by everyone from Popes John Paul II and Benedict to the U.S. bishops in 2002. No other organization has done as much to put in place measures to protect children from abuse as the Catholic Church has in the last 10 years. The Church and its institutions are today safer than almost any other institution where adults are in contact with children. Pope Benedict himself has called the abuse that took place "filth." And the Church has paid out billions (erroneously in many cases) in compensation to victims. That neo-atheist, secular media outlets choose not to report this, but instead pursue a witch-hunt and smear campaign (falsely reporting that Cardinal Ratzinger blocked sanctions against a Milwaukee priest who abused deaf children in his care for example) is not the Church's fault. Have you any idea of the abuse that goes on in other denominations and schools?