The Constitutional Convention in Dublin will meet shortly to consider changes to the Irish Constitution.
The lack of an emigrant representative among the 100 strong members is an unfortunate reality that will lead to a perception abroad that once again the Irish government is making clear that the emigrant voice is not important, even though the emigrant dollar clearly is.
The convention is taking place against a backdrop of harsh economic times and increased efforts to bring the Irish abroad back into the fold. The emigrant vote would be a perfect place to start.
One of the issues to be discussed is the emigrant vote, and there was good news in an Irish Times poll this week, with 68 percent of those surveyed believing that emigrants should be allowed to vote in Irish presidential elections.
Only 17 percent believed that emigrants should be denied a vote. The finding is clearly a green light for the government and the constitutional convention to grab this issue.
Clearly there is a mindset in Ireland that the emigrant vote, under limited conditions, is a good step for this government. It will now depend on government willpower and determination to make it happen.
Currently, 115 countries worldwide allow their citizens abroad to vote. Even high emigration countries such as Mexico and Poland have the provision.
Read more news on Irish immigration here
Ireland badly needs to get in line with international consensus and provide its emigrants with a means of taking part in elections in the country of their citizenship.
Of the 115 countries, many impose restrictions on their citizens abroad. That is fair and reasonable. A time limit, such as five years after an emigrant has left home, would be a fair compromise.
Equally, presidential elections are far less likely to be impacted by emigrant votes than small rural constituencies in Dail (Irish Parliament) elections, which can swing on a handful of votes.
It is the symbolic rather than the actual impact that emigrants seek, the acknowledgement so often given when investment and funding is required that the diaspora is a vital part of the Irish identity.
Successive Irish governments have always maintained a healthy distance from the diaspora, never fully comprehending its priorities, its perceived foibles or its intent.
The result has been many missed opportunities to build the links that are so vital to Ireland at a time of maximum distress in the old country.
The Constitutional Convention is about managed change to ensure that all aspects of Irish identity are given full expression.
There is arguably no more important part of that equation than the Irish abroad, especially at a time when thousands are once again voting with their feet and leaving.
Their goodwill, and their children’s goodwill, if they stay away, will form the diaspora of the future. It makes perfect sense for the Irish to reach out to those who leave now and ensure their participation in the Irish landscape of the future. The diaspora deserves that at the very least.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.WoundedKnee | Dec 01, 2012, 04:25 PM EST
Towngate: I believe your suggestion is a reasonable and ethical one. No one should vote in the elections of two different countries. Irish citizens who naturalize in other countries should forfeit their vote in Ireland, but only then. Of course it would be impossible to police--might have to be content with someone swearing that they are not a citizen of any other country. The fact is anyway that folks who get to the stage of naturalization overseas are already losing lots of ties with the homeland and are increasingly uninterested in voting in its elections.
WoundedKnee | Dec 01, 2012, 04:18 PM EST
"People who don't reside in the Irish Republic and are not citizens and therefore not familiar with CURRENT IRISH OPINION should not be given the vote".... Listen up, Gordon D, don't be such a dope. No one has suggested giving the vote to people who are not Irish citizens, what an utterly stupid thing to say. Rs
WoundedKnee | Dec 01, 2012, 04:16 PM EST
RichardP: "a country founded on the principle of 'No taxation without representation"... Looks like your problem is only with folks living in the USA. How about Irish living in countries that were not founded on that principle? You'd give them the vote, right? And how about folks in Ireland who don't pay taxes? There's lots of them. You'd deny them the vote, right?
greensod | Dec 01, 2012, 11:51 AM EST
Where do I VOTE?
Spalpín Fánach | Dec 01, 2012, 10:26 AM EST
Thats how irish government kill off any potential backlash from the half million they force to emigrate every 25 years. God forbid the chance that recent emigrants (ones who have emigrated less than 5 years) would have the right to express a meaningful opinion by casting a vote on the succesive gombeen governments that have destroyed many irish peoples chance of having a life or any influence in their country of birth/citizenship. As the many forced emigrants leave, the electoral registers actual turnout on election day slowly but surely diminishes and this is massively to the detriment of opposition and left wing parties. No one ever addresses this point when there is "slippage" of potential votes for opposition parties in polls like RedC etc. Think of it. A third of a million emigrants since this current forced exodus began in 2008. Thats more than enough to be a "gamechanger" in every election from council local authority to Dail elections in every local electoral area and every constituency in Ireland. That ensures the insiders in ireland ALWAYS have their ass covered whilst forced emigrants are left out in the cold. This is another reason why i say screw "The Gathering". Give us the vote or you wont get another cent of our hard earned $$$ than is absolutely nessecary. Shove your begging bowl where the sun dont shine until then. Address "The Scattering" before you try to milk our hard earned dollars. Ye have some balls and neck to expect emigrants to bail ye out.
Smyrnian | Nov 30, 2012, 09:58 PM EST
Seanmor - I suspect if you have money to spend you are included.
Seanmor | Nov 30, 2012, 07:43 PM EST
I'm not against the Gatherings of 2013, an idea of the gov't of the Southern Irish state, but I still waiting for the answer to one important question: Since the whole Irish nation is my homeland and I embrace all the native culture, including teanga na nGeal, am I excluded from the Gatherings by the tourist officials of the 'independent' Irish state? Please let me know.
seamus60 | Nov 30, 2012, 07:29 PM EST
One man or Woman One vote is suffice and will exclude the confusion.
RichardP | Nov 30, 2012, 04:58 PM EST
@Woundedknee - I'm not standing in anybody's way; I have neither the inclination nor the power to do so. However, for those living in the USA (I'm not), a country founded on the principle of 'No taxation without representation" should the reverse not apply "No representation without taxation'? I think if we pay our taxes in a particular country we are democratically entitled to participate in the decision making, or should be. If we do not contribute to the coffers of that country in what way should we be entitled to a say in how it is managed or governed?
Gordan Duggan | Nov 30, 2012, 12:08 PM EST
I can't vote in American elections as I don't reside there and am not an American citizen. I would not expect it. People who don't reside in the Irish Republic and are not citizens and therefore not familiar with CURRENT IRISH OPINION should not be given the vote. The recent Irish Presidential Election is a case in point. The attempt to foist the dodgy Martin McGuinness on us angered and alarmed Irish people.The posturing and cynicial behaviour of Sinn Fein/IRA and its celebrity following who have not lived in Ireland for many years,e.g.Colm Meaney (Majorca), Foinnula Flanagan (Hollyword) and Roma Downey (Hollywood) made Irish people wary. The comments of Irish Republicans on this site said it all. If you don't live in the Irish Republic you should not expect to decide who rules over us.
Smyrnian | Nov 30, 2012, 12:04 PM EST
Now I feel validated as a true Irish person for the first time since Sept. 30 1966 when I had to leave. It is very satisfying to me personally that the Irish government has now decided that I, and those like me, are part of a “diaspora. I always knew that but now we have at least a word to describe it. We, lately of this “Diaspora”, are also invited back to Ireland as part of the “gathering”. The Irish government has decided to reach out to us after all these many years and invited us home in 2013; how nice. I have been gone a very long time. My brothers and sisters have been gone an even longer time, having left home in the 1950’s. The Irish government was very happy to see the back of us as wwe were the sacrificial safety valve that reduced competition for jobs, social services and economic resources back home. It really felt like, “Good bye, lads. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out. Yea, come back and see us sometime”. Yea, sure. I'm heading to St. Lucia.
Towngate | Nov 30, 2012, 08:41 AM EST
Lookit! - this is easy. Irish emigrants whould retain their domestic vote until they become Naturalised in their adopted country. Simple. ~~~~ Note to picture editor: If the Diaspora were ever to become a meaningful entity, your picture of the 'perfect woman' above - is a suitable symbol of how it's voice will be regarded 'back home'.
IrelandNorth | Nov 30, 2012, 07:29 AM EST
"Just gimme da effin' money - or da lepreachaun gets whacked! Ooops - one dead Darby Ó Gill?" Yo, bros! if it's any consolation, da inspora themselves dunno wha' da hell is goin' on(?) Most recent update is that the 33 convenors will be anonymous - hmmm! None of whom will be able to parlez vous Irelandaise. Advice to diaspora. Form a government in exile like His Holiness (HH) the 14th Dalai Lama, and formulate a plan to unseat the pretenders in Érin gó braless.
esatdigiwank | Nov 30, 2012, 05:36 AM EST
Puts 'The Shakedown' in stark perspective, doesn't it?
TayandCake | Nov 29, 2012, 08:55 PM EST
So Irish people are not really important to Ireland according to the Government filth. Time to revolt folks, with extreme violence.
Searlit | Nov 29, 2012, 06:49 PM EST
I want to go back to Ireland, but it's not because of the Gathering. Give Irish citizens living abroad their right to vote!
Smyrnian | Nov 29, 2012, 06:33 PM EST
Seanmor - I was going to comment at some length on this but after reading yours I decided to not do so. You said it well.
Seanmor | Nov 29, 2012, 06:28 PM EST
The 4th paragraph from the bottom is a very accurate description of who the leaders of the Southern Irish state have dealt with those of us who emigrated from there during the past hald century. We Irish in diaspora mean nothing whatsoever to those who rule - or should I say misrule - the 'independent' part of the homeland. Immigrants from the Third World, legal and illegal, are far more welcome in the Irish state than those of us who were forced to emigrate from there, especially if we regard the whole Irish nation as our homeland.
Renelda M. | Nov 29, 2012, 06:14 PM EST
I am not surprised that Ireland isnot allowing emigrants of the diaspora to have a say in government. Ireland is a Catholic nation. There is a saying that the Church wants us to pray, pay and obey.
Pittsburghkid | Nov 29, 2012, 05:37 PM EST
A new use for Duct Tape, I like it.
olovely | Nov 29, 2012, 05:05 PM EST
How will the Irish government explain 'The Gathering'? We want your dollars, not your opinion.
Thomas84 | Nov 29, 2012, 04:38 PM EST
All Irish people should be able to vote , no matter were they are. Anything else is unacceptable.
WoundedKnee | Nov 29, 2012, 01:40 PM EST
RichardP: You don't want to vote in Irish elections. That's your prerogative--no one will compel you to vote. However, there are hundreds of thousands of Irish exiles who wish to vote. Get out of their way.
Smyrnian | Nov 29, 2012, 01:29 PM EST
Well, Cluster, there is nothing emphatically wrong here. Some people have had a better experience than others but I guarantee you that I am much older than you and I know what I saw in the 50,s and 60's and it was a disgrace. I am glad (really) that you have experienced better in your own life but I have seen a great many (way too many) experience resentment, lack if welcome and an Irish government that was truly happy to see us go to make room for what little opportunity there was.
cluster | Nov 29, 2012, 01:12 PM EST
As an Irish resident, I can confirm that those who feel that Irish in Ireland don’t care about the diaspora abroad are emphatically wrong. My family lived for a few years in the Middle East, some of my best friends are currently in China or Australia and my sister is currently living stateside. Each of us are as much a part of a larger Irish nation when we are abroad as when we are at home. I can see why the gathering might be viewed in a cynical light but I also think that it could a focus for a lot of positive interactions and events over the next year. It is true, however, that it suits a conservative political establishment to reduce the voting influence of the younger generations, especially those who feel that they have been forced to leave.
Polly | Nov 29, 2012, 12:27 PM EST
Believe it or not, but NOBODY can apply to be part of the Constitutional Convention. Invitations were given to political parties, both North and South. Otherwise, it was done by a polling company with an emphasis on a balance of age, gender, profession, etc. and I suspect a lack of strong political views. I cannot be assured of this, as the questions that were asked of the contacted persons is not public. It would be extremely difficult to find examples of average emigrants. And really, pilib04, you wouldn't find it undemocratic for those who are currently citizens of another state and non-resident in this state to vote in Ireland's elections. That would be handy for a certain political party. All UK citizens resident in this state can vote in local, EU and general elections. I lived in San Francisco in the 80s and I never wanted the vote while abroad so just make the best of wherever you are and enjoy. Trust that some of us here are trying to make Ireland a better place to live.
Fightin69th | Nov 29, 2012, 12:25 PM EST
Earlier this month, Ireland was elected to the UN's Human Rights Council. The right to vote is an important right that every citzen of any nation should have. The Irish government has failed in the past, and is currently failing its people. That is why Thousands leave Ireland every year.
Smyrnian | Nov 29, 2012, 11:31 AM EST
Lucky me and all my brothers and sisters who had to leave on the 50's and 60's when there was absolutely nothing for us and the Irish government was very happ to let us go. Now we are part of a "diaspora" and invited to a "gathering" no less. It's a gathering of $€£¥ etc.
pilib04 | Nov 29, 2012, 11:31 AM EST
Irish, living on the island of Ireland should also get the vote. Seems to me there was mention of this in either GFA or St. Andrews.
MichaelJTully | Nov 29, 2012, 11:13 AM EST
They are only wanted for the Rip Off, sorry the gathering.
roh.sfusa | Nov 29, 2012, 10:45 AM EST
A chara, Your editorial "No Diaspora Irish need apply for Constitutional Convention in Ireland” is regrettably correct that no representative of the Diaspora is on the Committee. However, the views of the Diaspora can be made known as there will be a provision to make submissions to the Convention electronically. While not ideal, this channel should be utilised to make sure that there is input on issues important to the Irish Diaspora. If there is to be a new Constitution it must have that wider dimension. As your editorial points out, many countries make provision for citizens to vote in Presidential elections. And there are many other aspects of the Constitution that would benefit from the inclusion of the Diaspora voice.
RichardP | Nov 29, 2012, 10:10 AM EST
For God's sake! We left the country, for whatever reason, to go abroad and find work. Most of us will never live there again so let's leave the running of the country to those who live there.
Smyrnian | Nov 29, 2012, 07:58 AM EST
So what's new here. Ireland has never cared for its emigrants, never mind their voice or opinion. They certainly do care about the mighty $ though. All this diaspora and gathering stuff is simply a mechanism to get to that $. No change there then.