New York protest planned over pregnant Indian woman’s death in Irish hospital

The fetus is a developing human in the life and worthy of respect. He/she is not just a collection of cells to be disposed as we feel fit. Every human being who exists/existed went through the fetal stage in the womb and deserves to be protected by the law. This is not to say that the life in the womb is more important than the mother's, but to state that both lives are worthy of the utmost respect and preservation. The "right to chose" has become a mantra which it's promulgators chant without thinking about the destructive impact it has on the growing child in the womb.

"Eiriamach" - You never stop, do you. Now, not only do you repeat that I "don't care about the lives of pregnant women", you also accuse me of being racist (("maybe pregnant Indian women, whatever!"). And again I say to you, The Bloody Cheek of You!!!! I have already referred you to my very FIRST post on this subject - on the article by Kate Hickey entitled "Thousands Gather to Protest", etc. My post is dated 3.52pm on 15th November and I refer to the "awful tragedy" and I also said it was "very sad". Once again, you simply ignore what I have written and choose to throw out LIBELLOUS accusations of racism, etc at me. What is it about people like you? Can't you just have a discussion without making ridiculous and patently false accusations. Thank you for your one retraction - I now look forward to your being man or woman enough to offer the second. Éamonn, Dublin.

Eamonn, I read your postings on this article and on the others about the death of Savita Halappanavar. Nowhere in the many words that you wrote did I see you address the point of the articles-- the unnecessary and agonizing death of a pregnant woman in an Irish hospital. You indulged in sweeping accusations against Indians and people who criticize the Catholic Church-- virtually all of it completely irrelevant to the important issues raised by this case. But you have consistently refused to deal with the facts of Savita's case. So yes, it certainly looks like you just don't care about the lives of pregnant women, or maybe pregnant Indian women, whatever! On your say-so, however, I hereby retract whatever I wrote about your being Catholic.

Without pro-choice legislation, doctors cannot act clearly and decisively to save the lives of pregnant women whose bodies do not spontaneously abort problem pregnancies. Without legal protection of women's right to decide, the state, in effect, takes ownership of pregnant female bodies. Without legal protection of choice, women of childbearing age are reduced to the status of property. What a bizarre and profoundly evil, dehumanizing situation for any Christian to advocate! A fetus is not a morally autonomous human being; it is not even a child, let alone a child of morally competent age. We protect its ability to develop into a morally autonomous human being, but not by sacrificing other lives to that sometimes remote possibility, and we must have the moral courage to acknowledge that sometimes it is an impossibility. Women are morally competent human beings-- except in the eyes of the Catholic Church. Nature has entrusted the decision to continue or terminate a pregnancy to women-- only the Catholic Church (and other male power-trippers) refuses to allow that choice.

Dear EiriAmach - You are at it once again. You say "posters like Eamonn, who are motivated only to keep Church control over over Irish law" and you go on to accuse me of having my "mind and soul closed to compassion", etc., etc. How bloody DARE you be so presumptuous? I have NO desire WHATSOEVER to see the Catholic church, or any other church, having "control over Irish law". Not that it's any business of yours, but I am not even a practicing Catholic. I believe in God, full stop. "Gearoid4" has responded to you perfectly, thank you Gearoid, so I will be brief as I don't wish to waste my time on a person who just likes handing out gratuitous insults. As for your accusation that "deaths of real live women are of no consequence" to me, this reflects only on yourself, in that you can even believe that such despicable people exist. For myself, I love and cherish every human being on the planet earth. Your personal remarks about me are totally disgusting and, quite frankly, you should be damn well ashamed to have written them. Éamonn, Dublin.

@Barneyjo, You state that the "status quo" cannot continue but that is no reason to introduce in a hastily fashion legislation that will facilitate ostensibly in some scenarios, but will eventually lead to abortion in demand. This was to be the course of events in both the US(ROE v ROE decision 1973) and in the UK(Abortion Act 1967). In the US there have been over 40 million nascent lives snuff out since that fateful decision, and in the UK currently over 180,000 abortions take place annually. There must be a thorough investigation into the cause and the medical procedures used at the time of this young lady's death. But one must not answer it with a premature rush to put through pro-abortion legislation, as this is the counsel of despair and abortion is a grave evil. The best solution is the provision of the best medical care for both mother and baby and indeed Ireland is one of the safest places in the world in that regard. @Eiriamach, you throw around descriptive terms like "barbaric" around in an unthinking and insulting fashion which are a parody of the truth. Ireland has one of the most advanced systems of medical care in the world in relation to maternal and baby care. You insult the medical staff who diligently and selflessly carry out their duties, day after day in Irish hospitals. I see also typically that there is no mention of the child in the womb in your latest contribution. I am not saying that the life of developing child should trump the mother's, but due consideration should be given to it as well.

The reason why posters implicate the Catholic Church in Savita's death, even though Ireland is becoming religiously diverse, is that Catholic bishops have influenced Irish law from the state's beginnings. That RC control has not faded; the Dáil has not enacted law in response to the 20-year-old supreme court decision on abortion; Irish law on women's rights remains the most atavistic in the EU. Ambiguity about "the life of the mother" intimidates physicians, who use vagueness in the law as excuse for allowing women needlessly to die and for bringing to birth suffering infants that have no chance of surviving or living human lives. That's the status quo, and it is indeed barbaric in its consequences for women with problem pregnancies and for their families. Posters like Eamonn, who are motivated only to keep Church control over Irish law, are closed to facts, their minds and souls closed to compassion. Deaths of real live women under barbaric conditions are of no consequence to them as long as Catholic thinking continues to prevail at law and men still make the laws that enable this unconscionable euthanasia of pregnant women.

Barneyjo, good post!

I note that the posters here who seem to be advocates for the contiunation of the present status quo, are content not to reflect on the social history of Ireland and its related mores: that prompted countless thousands of Irish women, both catholic and protestant to put their lives at risk rather than expose themselves to the stigma of unmarried pregnancy, across the generations. Rather, they put themselves in the hands of "back street" abortionists either here in Ireland or indeed in England. Latterly of course, the changes is British Legislation combined with improving standards of health care has mitagated in favour of their well being even after a termination. I would be interested in hearing the views of those advocates the status quo. However if any response amounts to nothing more than " well they shouldnt have opened their legs" then they will have lost the argument by default in my view!!

It's sadly comical, the way in which many have used this tragedy to abuse Ireland and the Catholic church. The hatred in some of the posts borders on evil. Words such as "murder" and "barbarism" are used with gay abandon. Ireland is right up there at the forefront in the world of care and safety in childbirth. And as for the vicious attacks on the Catholic church, well, for the past few years we have been told by the media that Ireland is a "post-Catholic country". Why is it now very suddenly repositioned by that same media - and by hordes of anti-Catholics who use this tragedy as an attack weapon - as a "Catholic priest-ridden country". This had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the Catholic church - it had zero involvement. Those who wish to cater for women's rights would do well to look elsewhere, where there is PLENTY of work to be done. Our women in Ireland are looked after exceedingly well, thank you very much - and that includes the thousands of pregnant non-Irish women who arrive on our shores every year in order to have their babies here and live here . Éirinn go Brágh!! Éamonn, Dublin.

Ireland! It's time for you to end your own version of Sharia Law, and embrace separation of Church and State, like other civilized countries. Pulpits should be for worship -not for politics.

We need to thank our lucky stars.... that Romney and his women-hating, Supreme-Court-changing crew of billionaire buddies .... were not swept into office by American voters. Sanity has prevailed.

And if she had had other children they would now be motherless, all because the hospital she was admitted to was Catholic - who valued the life of a non viable fetus over the beautiful loved professional grown woman. They killed her as surely as the fetus they valued above her would have been if scraped out in a D&C. They probably even introduced the bacteria that made her septic via the pelvic exam they surely did on admission. Anti abortion laws and policies do not reduce the number of abortions. They merely increase maternal death due to infection and poor surgical technique by unskilled providers. FGS, even I know how to induce an early abortion via herbs. This hospital murdered Savita. They love life? What about hers? What about her now widowed young husband simply because she was admitted to the wrong hospital? Why on earth would a hospital be certified if they do not provide a very basic health care option that would have saved her life? I hope he sues all the way up the chain to Rome.

Ken from Dublin...here is the reality of abortions and death of the woman."Abortion, when induced in the developed world in accordance with local law, is among the safest procedures in medicine.[1] However, unsafe abortions result in approximately 70 thousand maternal deaths and 5 million disabilities per year globally... note that abortion is one of the SAFEST medical procedures in countries that are developed...they made this woman suffer! WTH?? SUFFER FOR UN-VIABLE FETUS? Why do you judge people like this? If you don't want to have an abortion great...but why would you prevent someone else from doing so? This very situation should have been resolved 20 years ago...that is what people get upset about too!

Catholics Max Tiger and Ken from Dublin have it in the right perspective. This Protestant also believes in the sanctity of lives of unborn children and can differentiate between anti-Christian prejudice and a tragic medical mistake. So just calm down you "anything goes" bigots.