Most Irish in New York vocal in support of gay marriage, new survey shows

Hi again, Eiriamach. Please know that the Family Research Council (FRC) states on their webpage they “…refuted the charge they support execution of homosexuals in Uganda as soon as it appeared in 2010. FRC has publicly opposed the much-publicized bill (never adopted) in Uganda that would have imposed criminal penalties for various offenses related to homosexual conduct, and the death penalty for something known as ‘aggravated homosexuality.’" One must research their original statements before condemning them out of hand. The modern SPLC has a lot to answer for.

Eiriamach, we know that a “text out of context is a pretext.” You claim that the Family Research Council (whom I did not quote) “misuses” Susan Holt statements. Please explain how could anyone possibly reinterpret Holt’s written statement that I quoted? The SPLC has changed its image and M.O. They called the Family Research Council a “hate group,” due to its views on marriage. Was this instrumental in setting off unbalanced Floyd Lee Corkins, who walked into the D.C. HQ of the Family Research Council and opened fire last August? Perkins may justifiably litigate against SPLC for this designation because it is a form of intimidation that discourages the important discussions that are an important part of a democratic society.

Hi again, Eiriamach. Re; our notes from historians, I see in internet that Iver Bernstein is a reputable historian and author, and associate professor in Washington U. in St. Louis. I haven’t read him yet. However, I would advise against dismissing writings from William J. Stern, who is a contributing editor of “City Journal,” the USA’s premier urban policy magazine. This is the magazine of the prestigious Manhattan Institute for Policy Research. Stern is also an author and regularly writes for several journals and magazines, e.g., the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Newsday, Albany-Times Union. His stature as a first-rate historian is such that it is unlikely he would be making false or unfounded statements about the 1863 riots, or Archbishop Hughes, such as those I quoted in these posts. I added them on this page as a fair response to Hollabackgirl’s statement regarding dearth of Roman Catholic moral leadership. It helps to address both sides of controversies. I regret that IC sometimes edits out responsible posts, such as has happened here. Regards.

Why do you thinkn hillary picked NY? The Kennedys owned Mass. NY was the highest bastion of stupidity, so here she comes, carpet bag and all! NOBAMA!

If an unwed aunt is madly in love with her adult nephew, should they be allowed to marry?

BishopSean, the library is closed at this hour and I cannot retrieve a particular book I've quoted previously on Irish Central, but here's a little from my notes on Ivor Bernstein's 'The NYC Draft Riots': "As the [Civil] war progressed, [NY Archbishop] Hughes' attacks on emancipation and the Vatican's willingness to entertain Confederate diplomats at the papal court made the issue of Catholic loyalty to the Union even more worrisome" (page 197). See also page 112 on Hughes' animus toward Protestant employers. You'll probably find other references to the Archbishop in the Index. The advantage in using the work of disinterested historians is that they generally take their information from primary sources. Bernstein quotes Hughes' writings and speeches -- quite illuminating, much like that video of Romney speaking about the 43 percent!

Hi again, Eiriamach. If you don’t mind, I will independently verify your statements to see if they are accurate. In one case here, concerning Bishop Hughes, my quoted source, Stern, disagrees with you. He states, “A then-dying Archbishop Hughes summoned the leaders of the (anti-draft) rebellion to meet with him. However disturbed he might have been that the Irish were being called on to do so much of the dying in the struggle against the South, he supported the war and was totally opposed to slavery, having preached against it since his ordination as a priest in 1826. He told the riot leaders that ‘no blood of innocent martyrs, shed by Irish Catholics, has ever stained the soil of Ireland’ and that they were dishonoring that impeccable history.” He stood up to the majority Protestants who were anti-Catholic at that time, but had the support of other Protestants and Jews. Of course, if you have a better source than Stern, please let me know. Regards.

Yes, BishopSean, the Family Research Institute also misuses Susan Holt's and others' research on the lives of gays and lesbians. Its Chairman, Paul Cameron, ruminates about Obama being gay. On the other hand, in your preferred group, the Family Research Council, its president, Tony Perkins, supports Uganda's "Kill Gays" legislation and similar homophobic activities. The SPLC classifies it as a hate group--and you consider it "scholarly"?? Six of one, half a dozen of the other. . . . You can twist a sociological study to serve devious ends, and you can whitewash the life of a churchman like John Joseph Hughes to pretend that only his contributions to building up NYC happened, and not his murderous pro-slavery and anti-Protestant rabble rousing. The challenge is to follow ALL the truth rather than narrowing the facts to those that serve your bigotries.

Hi, Eiriamach. Actually, I was not quoting the “Family Research Institute,” (I don’t know that organization) nor even the Family Research Council, which I know to be a serious scholarly group of professionals that are not given to “smear” persons, as you seem to affirm. I was quoting Susan Holt, the Direct of the Gay and Lesbian Center for Domestic Violence in Los Angeles. Eiriamach, it is refreshing and calming to research when you are free to follow the truth wherever it leads, rather than “cherry-picking” your arguments to fit your conclusions. Regards.

I have no problem with two men or two women living together as long as they are not getting all the benefits of a conventional marriage.Call me old fashioned i guess!!

BishopSean and hermitTalker have been drinking the tainted tea of the Family Research Institute's smear campaign. As long as homosexuals are denied the full civil rights others have, as long as they are excluded from social institutions such as marriage that are open to everyone else, discrimination and homophobia will continue. Take the surveys seriously: we are sick of living in the kind of society you prefer-- rife with discrimination and group hatreds. Why do you think you need to keep exclusion, discrimination, and hatred alive in order for your religion to thrive? It makes no civilized sense.

Seems I was nixed by the censor so try again. I see this as akin to abortion surveys; even in 1973 CBS NYT poll showed that most were opposed but most are now still opposed, but many favor "choice." The State has to regulate all unions and make laws to protect property, insurance and children in same-gender unions. Natural law demands they be treated as human beings with dignity even if we object to their actions. if people in Ireland and the USA saw videos of abortions and same-gender genital activity rather than abstract talk about "rights" and "choice" I guarantee the poll numbers would drop way down for being in favour

Hi again, Hollabackgirl. Historian William J. Stern is unbiased and points out that “In 1847 about 40,000 [Irish on Coffin Ships] died making the voyage, a mortality rate much higher than that of African slaves in British vessels….” Stern also says Hughes was almost killed by nativists who burnt his home down. So easily we forget our history. I worked in Trenton State prison years back when most inmates were Black and Latinos. Some claimed they were POWs; one of them was a serial rapist. But looking back in the archives, most prisoners in 1800s were Irish and also not POWs. New York had 50,000 Irish prostitutes in 1850. Illegitimacy reached great heights -- and tens of thousands of abandoned Irish kids roamed, or prowled, the city's streets. Violent Irish gangs, wreaked havoc. Most arrested in New York in 1840s and 1850s were Irish, so that police vans were dubbed "paddy wagons" and brawls were called "donnybrooks." So, poor Irish immigrant Hughes helped raised up our people, with the help of God. We all need this, admit it or not.

Marriage is a civil ceremony that creates legal entitlements. For some, but not most, it is also a religious event that has spiritual connotations that are not necessarily obvious to the rest of us. Gays aren't looking for religious blessings they are looking for civil rights and entitlements. BishopSean your repulsive caricature of the Irish community in the 19th century fails to mention the disaster of the famine and blames the Irish for their condition. That's a telling premise that you base your so-called Catholic salvation on. I have to say you sound like a No Nothing, not a native.

civil partnerships DON'T give ALL the same rights and protections as married people....gays have to spend MAJOR money to have all kinds of legal papers drawn up...and that doesn't mean, they won't still run into problems....and weither you get married in a church or at someone's home....you have GOT to have a MARRIAGE LICENSE, from the state....and those ARE recgonized in ALL states....but, that mean that CIVIL PARTNERSHIPS/UNIONS are.....LOVE IS LOVE, NO MATTER THE GENDER OR RACE OF THOSE INVOVLED.....AND LEAVE THE BIBLE OUT OF IT. ALISA