Former Irish President Mary McAleese has come out in favor of gay marriage. She made the declaration in an interview on Irish television.
McAleese said she held “a very strong view that for centuries now gay people have lived in a dark secretive world of indeterminate loneliness [and] dreadful complexity.”
Gay people are “as entitled to live their lives on their own terms, as I do as a heterosexual,” she said. “I’m just thrilled anyone wants to get married.”
She also took issue with how Vatican II was put in place, saying bishops were supposed to co-govern the church with the Pope.
“It did not happen,” she said. The College of Bishops had not met since Vatican II, which concluded in 1965.
She said she was upset the Pope allowed no dissent. “I’m not clear anymore where the boundaries are,” she said.
Church leadership lacked “a fair degree of credibility now” as a result of the child abuse issue, she said.
If they could be so dreadfully wrong and take so long about accepting how wrong they were . . . ” and yet “we seem to have arrived at a situation of creeping infallibility about everything.”
McAleese has spoken out in favor of women priests, and said she had written to the Pope asking for his views on the matter. She said she got “a lovely letter back.”
She also wrote to then Dublin Archbishop Desmond Connell seeking literature on the issue. She found it “wickedly poor scholarship.”
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.STEVENSTAR | Feb 27, 2013, 12:39 AM EST
@@misneac | Oct 10, 2012, 03:45 PM EDT JUST WONDERING ARE YOU GAY YOURSELF AND MAYBE IN THE CLOSET?? AS VERY OFTEN ITS PEOPLE WHO ARE ACTUALY GAY AND IN THE CLOSET ARE THE MOST HOMOPHOBIC PEOPLE OUT THERE.. IM STRAIGHT AND IT DONT BOTHER ME.. LIVE AND LET LIVE MATE !
STEVENSTAR | Feb 27, 2013, 12:35 AM EST
WELL THANKFULLY MOST OF US IRISH HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH GAY MARRIAGE IN IRELAND .. I PERSONALLY BELIEVE GAY PEOPLE SHOULD BE ABLE TO MARRY.. WHAT I HAVE A HUGE PROBLEM AS MOST IRISH HAVE IS WITH CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE IN THE CHURCH AND ALL THE HORRIFIC THINGS THESE PRIESTS DID TO LITTLE CHILDREN IS TRULY SICK... AND JUST WHEN YOU THINK ITS GOING TO END MORE SCANDALS ERUPT.. THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IS IN A DREADFUL STATE AND IT CANT GET ANY WORSE.. I FOR ONE WANT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TO STOP FOCUSING ON PEOPLE WHO LOVE EACH OTHER BE THEY GAY OR STRAIGHT AND 'FOCUS; ON GETTING RID OF THESE SICK PERVERTS AND EVIL PEOPLE WHO SEXUALLY ABUSE LITTLE CHILDREN AND TO THINK ABOUT ALL THE LIVES THAT HAVE BEEN RUINED OVER THE YEARS OF THE KIDS WHO HAVE BEEN ABUSED THAT ARE NOW ADULTS !! IT MAKES ME VERY ANNOYED THAT MORE ISNT DONE BESIDES COVERING IT UP .. THANK GOD FOR THE IRISH & BRITISH MEDIA WHO BROUGHT ALL THIS TO LIGHT IN IRELAND & UK !!!
misneac | Oct 11, 2012, 12:58 PM EDT
Eiriamach, you can have any fandango you like amongst gays and call it " marriage " .Society understands that marriage is a union of two people of the opposite sex ,so please stop trying to make a case for calling the relationship between homosexuals as marriage ! I also object to misappropriation of the word "gay " by that lobby . God be with the days when Harry Belafonte sang , " Down the way where the Knights are gay " .Im sure he had another interpretation of the term !
paddyo | Oct 10, 2012, 05:45 PM EDT
Helmet- The saddest things in the world are old gay men, because they have nothing left. and younger gays push them away. Older practicing Catholics have everything left and are admired by young pratcing Catholics. Gay-what a waste of a word.
eiriamach | Oct 10, 2012, 05:13 PM EDT
Well, misneac, the best evidence that is it possible is that it is actual. It cannot be actual if it's not possible. It exists in Canada and six states of the USA, and more states are voting on it next month.
misneac | Oct 10, 2012, 03:45 PM EDT
A totally propagandist headline ! Mary Mc Aleese expressed an opinion ,and did not " slam Pope " ! She was an excellent President ,but I hope that she does not besmirch her legacy by now indulging in statements to suit what are called the "multicultural liberals " ! She should not now forget her origins ,and play the Mary Robinson game . Every ordinary human being ,without an agenda ,knows that there can not be "gay marriages " ,as in accepted society this entity is not possible !
aloistmartin | Oct 10, 2012, 03:01 PM EDT
Let us Pray Mary McAleese never becomes President, much less Pope !
seanskelligs | Oct 10, 2012, 12:57 PM EDT
More lies and propaganda by the Gay Brigade. She did NOT call for gay marriage. She merely expressed the view that she had nothing against it. Its because of this type of false propaganda I will vote no if ever asked to.
Los Leandros | Oct 10, 2012, 10:39 AM EDT
More vacuous waffle from McAleese. More cheap & media pleasing Church bashing. Why does'nt she take on the State. The State ( in Ireland anyway, not sure about US ) in the guise of the Blood Transfusion Service, refuses to take blood from practicing homosexuals. The science supports this practice. So in effect, the State regards homosexual practices as abhorrent & unacceptable. Over to you Ms. McAleese ; or in the words of your new book - " Quo Vadis ? ".
eiriamach | Oct 10, 2012, 07:08 AM EDT
IrelandNorth, "the ultimate theological authority" in the Gospels would be the words of Jesus, but he never spoke about homosexuality, nor women being subordinate to men. The ancient world took the diversity of human sexuality for granted as not needing comment, in contrast to many Christians today. Christians who condemn homosexuals and independent women do so on the basis of fallible, self-appointed human "moral authority." If you read the Gospels with an open mind, I believe you'll conclude that homophobia and sexism are grievous sins and that, as Vatican II declared, "every form of discrimination" is "contrary to God's intention." "Every social group must take account of the needs and legitimate aspirations of other groups, and even of the general welfare of the entire human family" (Gaudium et Spes, Vatican II).
IrelandNorth | Oct 10, 2012, 06:30 AM EDT
Ever since the early christian(?) church became institutionalised and converted to Constantianity, it lost all pretence to genuine theocracy. And after the Vatican II revolution in the 1960s, the counter revolution wasn't long about kicking back in. What does the ultimate theological authority say about homosexuality? Or has the supposed word of God been rewritten into a new gospel?
eiriamach | Oct 10, 2012, 06:27 AM EDT
A survey released yesterday by Pew Research Center found that the retreat from religion continues in American life. One in 5 of us is now unaffiliated with any religion, increasing to 32% among 18-29-year-olds, nearly one-third. The reason for leaving religion seems to be the moralizing attitudes of religious leaders toward gays and women: "73 percent of the religiously unaffiliated express support for same-sex marriage, compared with 48% of the public at large," and the numbers are similar on the legality of abortion. Notice that the unaffiliated are easing their consciences by affiliating with liberal politics: in 2012, 24% of Democrats or leaning Dem are unaffiliated with religion (compared to 17% in 2007). Only 11% of Republican/leaning Repub are unaffiliated, compared to 60% who are Protestants and 22% who are Catholics. And 78 percent of the unaffiliated are either moderate or liberal in their politics. Could this trend be any more clear? It certainly makes sense to leave a "religion" that rejects equal rights for gays and women! As McAleese says, religious leaders lose credibility when they advocate laws that make some less than equal to others.
helmet365 | Oct 10, 2012, 04:57 AM EDT
Ignore @jetsnoone,he is one of the older catholics i have referred to before. While he reflects on his cathechism and sin(a man made thing) around the world the priests he so admires have been doing these acts for centuries boys,girls and to each other.Google "One mans life,and how the church he loved let him down" Its about what some priests do to each other.
barneyjo | Oct 10, 2012, 03:06 AM EDT
@jetsnoone - I have reported your last post here as abusive to IC, out of curiosity to see what the site's policy actually does in practice. You know, we in Ireland at one stage had a Taoiseach who was given the nickname BIFFO some of his political opponents. BIFFO was an acronymn (look that up if you dont understand) for BIG IGNORANT F***ER FROM OFFALY. Your post brought that to mind; cant think why!!
Springfield9 | Oct 10, 2012, 02:06 AM EDT
Gay mariage may go over in munster and Ulster. it may be a tad less fashionable in West.
jetsnoone | Oct 10, 2012, 12:49 AM EDT
If you look it up, in the Catholic Catechism, homo-sexual relations, as in gay sex is a MORTAL SIN. Now we have this bitch, Mary McAleese encouraging the youth of Ireland to go ahead and indulge. What a pathetic, selfish, self-centered and evil policy.
mairint | Oct 09, 2012, 09:22 PM EDT
Sure guys, McAleese is against Catholic Church teaching...whats new? Some Catholic - NOT
bunkerisland | Oct 09, 2012, 09:19 PM EDT
One needs to worry about the Vatican's "creeping infallibility". Mary has a wonderful way with words.
irishpjk | Oct 09, 2012, 09:03 PM EDT
wtf Mary did a great job as president of Ireland, and she like any other catholic is free to write to the Pope with a request but she has no right to expect special privileges. For centuries now the word marriage has meant one male and one female putting the word gay in front of marriage is an attempt to change the meaning of the word. Allowing gay people tax breaks and other privileges can be accomplished with a civil union; this will not change the meaning of the word marriage. As for gay people hiding the fact that they are gay, I believe nature is the reason male and female exist to procreate, if sex between two members of the same sex was the natural way to go then the species will would not survive so in the past the gay people did not want to come out and say they were going against nature.
jacersagain | Oct 09, 2012, 08:39 PM EDT
@ RedBranch & micaelidaho - thank you for kind comments on my post. I see now that ICentral has deleted it.
hollabackgurl | Oct 09, 2012, 08:06 PM EDT
LucMitchell I AM against people offering their ill-informed opinions as fact. Marriage have never been defined for the 'begating' children. What age are you? You're not even literate. You realize that the dumbest people in America spout the same nonsense you just did? No one is asking you 'to ~accomodate~ a moralistic ~behavorial~ change' whatever you think that is. I bet no one has asked you to 'accomodate'an immoral change in a good long while either.
LucMitchell | Oct 09, 2012, 07:05 PM EDT
It's not that I am against gays being involved in marital unions and receive the same privilegeas as hetero couples do, but rather to redefine centuries of traditions by having the word marriagwe redefined in the dictionary to accomodate ANYONE! The dictionary, since its creation in any language, has defined the word marriage as a union between a man and a woman for the purpose of begating children. Period. Why should be change the meaning of a word to accomodate a moralistic behavorial change in nour mores?
michaelidaho | Oct 09, 2012, 04:59 PM EDT
jacersagain, Excellent answer explaining basic Christian doctrine on marriage. A very sensitive and well articulated post indeed.
RedBranch | Oct 09, 2012, 04:15 PM EDT
Right on Jacers, hold the line!
Proud Canadian2 | Oct 09, 2012, 02:43 PM EDT
Good for you Mary, it is about time someone put the Pope in his place. Gays are human beings and should have the same rights as anyone else. Who has the right to stand in the way of love?
jacersagain | Oct 09, 2012, 02:40 PM EDT
LOL @ cillowen’s comment. I almost posted the same thought but was reminded that just because it says ‘Bovril’ ON the bus doesn’t mean there’s Bovril IN the bus! Besides, it might be a ‘Photochopped’ image.
SCVMalcolm | Oct 09, 2012, 01:51 PM EDT
Madam President, You are a thinking Catholic, BUT you truly ARE as we are called to be; Christian - tha adjective meaning Christ-like and not the noun! I believe that Jesus would definitely agree with you as I do...What was that He said about millstones tied to necks and why? Child rapists and those who covered for them, get ready to sink!
michaelidaho | Oct 09, 2012, 01:02 PM EDT
Gee, what a surprise?! Another IC article critical of the RCC.
phinsman | Oct 09, 2012, 01:01 PM EDT
I completely agree with Mary McAleese. Research has shown that heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality is caused by hormones in the mother's body when she is pregnant. No one has control over their sexual preference. No one should discriminate upon people's sexual preference. It is a natural process of which we have no control. I am heterosexual, but have never discriminated against homosexual or bisexual people. I have many wonderful, ethical friends who are homosexual.
aherlowglen | Oct 09, 2012, 12:24 PM EDT
Mrs McAleese is brilliant. A great President. A thinking Catholic. What a waste that the Church wastes her talent and other women like her.
eiriamach | Oct 09, 2012, 11:15 AM EDT
Besides, with Vatican mouthpieces like the current Papal Nuncio to Ireland, the inert Irish bishops and those who, like Bishop Kirby, still lie about sexual abuse, where else is a saving reform to come from but people like McAleese? She's right about loss of credibility among the ordained. It will take bold theological thinking to break through the bigotry of Catholics like jetsnoone, who poison discussion with words like "degenerate." From "The Gift of Authority": "Christ promises that the Holy Spirit will keep the essential and saving truth in the memory of the Church, empowering it for mission (cf. Jn 14.26; 15.26-27). This truth has to be transmitted and received anew by the faithful in all ages and in all places throughout the world, in response to the diversity and complexity of human experience [including, I would add, the experience of homosexuals and women]. There is no part of humanity, no race, no social condition, no generation, for whom this salvation, communicated in the handing on of the Word of God, is not intended." McAleese is the voice of reform, the voice of Christianity's future.
katieherk | Oct 09, 2012, 11:01 AM EDT
What is wrong with you people, from Mary McAleese, the author and down below!!! A marriage between man and woman is THEE only way. You are encouraging mortal sin along with causing the breakdown of this world. I'm shocked at the stupid people (all of the above) who would dare to encourage this lifestyle! Wow, and Jim O'Shea? Writing such tripe is appalling! Get a job as a janitor, you'd be better at it!
eiriamach | Oct 09, 2012, 10:37 AM EDT
Isn't the headline for this article misleading? Mary McAleese criticizes the Vatican's back-peddling on Vatican II reforms. In particular, recent popes have refused to allow the collegiality of bishops that Lumen Gentium, the Constitution of the Church, called for. They have centralized and strengthened papal absolutism at the expense of the bishops and, of course, priests, nuns and other laity as well. The way that the recent new Missal translation was imposed without the bishops approving Vox Clara's rewrite is one case in point, and there have been many others. As Giovanni Franzoni wrote in "Vatican II: Lost and betrayed" "Day by day, we see rules, decisions, interpretations emerging from the Roman See that, in our opinion, are in radical conflict with Vatican II." Bishops Mark Santor and Cormac Murphy-O’Connor in "The Gift of Authority" (1998) called for a Vatican II "understanding of universal primacy and conciliarity which complements and does not supplant the exercise of episcope [bishops] in local churches." (These documents are available online.) Surely McAleese, speaking from her studies and experience, can make valuable contributions to reform of Catholic faith and practice in Ireland.
markday | Oct 09, 2012, 10:05 AM EDT
Women are the only hope the church has, if it has any chance at all. Men have screwed things up beyond recognition, and as Fr. Bede Griffiths, the saintly Benedictine mystic once said, "Don't worry about the Vatican--it will all come tumbling down some night while we are asleep." I hope so. It's long overdue and time to scrap all that nonsense and rebuild it. I hope it's not too late. And let's get the pope's butler on CNN with Piers Morgan. Gabriele has a lot to say.
CelticQueenUSA | Oct 09, 2012, 09:21 AM EDT
Oh Mary! I am so in tune with you. I am also a believer in people being able to enjoy their lives in whatever combination they wish. You have stated all the facts and with such clarity and intelligence. THANK YOU.