A group which was established to help disaffected Catholics formally leave the Catholic church via a ‘declaration of defection’ has said that a lack of response from the Vatican has left people in limbo.
Countmeout.ie was founded in 2009 to help dissatisfied Catholics leave the church. However a change in Canon Law in 2010 has removed this possibility for many would-be defectors.
“The change in Canon Law effectively means these people are barred from leaving,” says Count Me Out spokesperson Paul Dunbar.
Dunbar said countless people have got in touch who want to formally defect from the church.
“We receive a steady stream of emails weekly from people who wish to remove themselves from the church. For some, not attending mass or participating in rituals is enough separation. However, others want a more formal procedure, one in which the church acknowledges a person’s right to choose their religion and officially records this fact.”
In February of this year, Count Me Out wrote to Cardinal Francesco Coccopalmerio, President of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts in order to seek clarification on this issue. Another letter was sent in April, but no response has been received to date.
The organization has since wrote to Archbishop Diarmuid Martin asking him to elicit a response from the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts.
Meanwhile the 50th International Eucharistic Congress continues in Dublin this week and the conferences daily events is expected to draw large numbers.
"We had just over 22,000 e-tickets booked for Congress, some of them were seven day tickets, some three day and a small number of one day tickets," a spokeswoman for the Congress told the Evening Herald.
A ceremony which celebrated Irish Catholic heritage opened the Congress in Dublin on Sunday and attracted a crowd of 12,500 pilgrims from "all four corners of the world".
Up to 80,000 are expected to attend Sunday closing ceremony and “Statio Orbis” event in Crowe Park.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.eiriamach | Jun 20, 2012, 01:52 PM EDT
SO KWEENIE, once again I ask, a little louder this time, HOW IS YOUR HATE SPEECH WORKING OUT FOR YOU? Are you winning friends and influencing people with it? I'd be concerned about the mental state and emotional health of anyone drawn to such behavior. Since you have no rational argument to make,... you resort to scurrilous attacks instead. You compound your Church's disgrace! IC has some spirited discussions, but your sadism stands out as unique. Paradigm Catholicity, right? I note also that your confreres on "Pope describes clerical sex abuse as a 'mystery'" were perfectly indifferent to your sadistic rants on that page. Catholics have become so well practiced in turning a blind eye and deaf ear to abuse of others! One of them proudly proclaimed that HE does not "use personal attacks or suspect others' motives on any of the topics whereon I write," and in predictable moral cowardice he proceeded to ignore your attacks. So just tell me, just so's we know, how long will it take for you to get your usual quota of sadistic gratification by abusing others this time around and then to leave IC, only to return again with another screen name?
KweenOHearts | Jun 19, 2012, 03:19 PM EDT
sparticusnorth: "... the numbers game is all that matters to them..." How about proving what you say. C'mon, show us your sources, or you know exactly what to do, as expressed in four very clear initials starting with ST**!!
KweenOHearts | Jun 19, 2012, 03:12 PM EDT
ciaradexy and Bythebay -- Then you should blame your parents who in good faith, or because of cultural or habitual concerns, did baptize you. The Church did not go to either of your parents' house and forced them to dunk you in the baptismal font.
KweenOHearts | Jun 19, 2012, 03:02 PM EDT
NMcK -- You're confusing the Catholic Church with the mormon cult. The CC may have a vague idea --mainly through statistics drawn from the census each country takes-- of how many people claim to be Catholic, but I don't think you could claim with any degree of truth that the Church has gone from house to house counting its members. Get off that idiocy!
KweenOHearts | Jun 19, 2012, 02:51 PM EDT
JamieLM: You should get a job as cartographer to the Catholic disaffected. Same goes for wilhoef. -- CitizenWhy: Do you work at the Vatican Curia, and could you actually certify that the Church keeps a head-count on its members, and on how many Catholic schools are financed by the fisc? -- I'd bet that except for the leeching bureaucracy (which justifies its existence by siphoning gov't funds that would be better used in education), all honest citizens -if given the choice- would rather fund Catholic schools, which provide superior education at substantially lower cost, than waste their taxes on public schools, which turn out failed and poorly educated children at a cost of over $11,000/yr. ----ciaradexy: I have a piece of paper that liberates me from the stigma of being around people who never did diddly-squat for their faith, except damn it and undermine it. In Latin it's called, the "Optimus Outus Ex-Bitcheous Maximus"...How coincidental is that...!!
KweenOHearts | Jun 19, 2012, 02:09 PM EDT
Lord forgive me, I have a sin to confess... for ONCE in my life [and hopefully nevermore], I find myself in agreement with porkia777. --- Yes all you ex-Catholic malcontents... go ahead do the rest of us a favor and make your exit already! --- No one forced you to count yourselves among the fold... no one cares that you take your anger, ignorance of the faith, sporadic church attendance, need for attention and lashing out, etc. wherever the H you wish to go! ---- In fact, there are quite a few heretical communities out there with anywhere from 50 to 20K individuals who might not only profit from your presence, but might even need it. Your zeal for grumbling, bitching and moaning might be just what they need to increase their customer base. --- They will also love the tithing they will extract from you because, bottom line, many of those piddly organizations exist to fund the lifestyle of the slick pope/preacher/founder/leader/con man, whoever he or she happens to be. --- So, as a good steward of the human capital Jesus entrusted the Church with, she might be ultimately be pained at your departure, but don't expect her to grovel over your disappearance! On the other hand, we the people are sick and tired of your wailing; we are and not so inclined to go into grieving. --- So cut the cord, pull the string, scrub off the baptismal waters and say 'buh-bye! Get the H out already, and say hello to GOOD RIDDANCE!!!
sparticusnorth | Jun 17, 2012, 08:26 PM EDT
catholicabuseusrvivorsni.com----- the numbers game is all that matters to them.
WoundedKnee | Jun 16, 2012, 09:37 AM EDT
Mousemess: I suspect you'll appreciate a friendly correction. Your sentence "Nil an eaglais Chaitliceach an t-aon eaglais amhain" is wrong. One of the fundamentals about Irish is that it, like Italian and Spanish, has two variants of the English verb "to be". In your case above, you have used "Nil" where the verbal phrase should be "Ní hí". Also, in another post, you put "áfach" at the beginning of the sentence. That's not good Irish, "áfach" goes at the end. Lean ar aghaidh leis an dea-obair.
Scrivner | Jun 16, 2012, 07:26 AM EDT
Quit your complaining, it's a lot easier than a Muslim wanting to convert. Under strict Islamic law the penalty for that act is death!
seanomelb | Jun 16, 2012, 01:29 AM EDT
Collette tell the to the millions of starving children in the world.
Collette2 | Jun 15, 2012, 11:20 PM EDT
Limbo is no longer. Be consoled that you are being true to your faith, not what is being done in your name. "Where two or more are gathered, I am there also", and practice Spiritual Communion. God knows the heart and He will honour you. It takes practice.
Bythebay | Jun 15, 2012, 02:40 PM EDT
The majority of people in Ireland who are Catholics were baptised as infants when they not only had no choice but didn't know what they were being signed up for. That's no way for any church to get members. Those who realize they were signed up to something they don't want can leave it as they choose without the church's permission.
Bythebay | Jun 15, 2012, 02:38 PM EDT
Gearoid4, if you want to continue being shackled by the Catholic Church, that's your choice. Those wishing to leave the Catholic Church do not need that church's permission to do so, they no longer attend it. If they are on the collection rolls for a parish of that church they advise the parish of that church to remove their name. That's it. The Church does NOT own its members, the members do not need the Church's permission to tell it they are not members any longer. They have what's called free will.
ciaradexy | Jun 14, 2012, 02:59 PM EDT
Gearoid, I was baptised a catholic, indoctrinated into a faith that I do not believe in therefore I wanted out, completely, 100%. I now have a cert, an anti-baptismal cert if you will so now I do not feel the stigma of being part of an organisation of misogynists and paedophiles who hide under the guise of doing the work of an imaginary deity.
Gearoid4 | Jun 14, 2012, 02:10 PM EDT
I'm only commenting on the issues relating to the Catholic Church, Mouseness. I'm not in anyway trying to diminish the roles played by other churches in Ireland or even the world. Tbanks for your considerate words regarding the qualities exhibited by those of the Catholic Faith. I share your opinion regarding the divisions within the Christian Faith as they seriously weaken the united witness of those who profess to follow Christ. @ByTheBay, I see that you still continue with your usual anti-Catholic comments but the Church will always be present among us, as She has Her founder's guarantee that the gates of hell will not prevail against her.
Mousemess | Jun 14, 2012, 12:37 PM EDT
Is Anglacanach mise; afach, diultaim a chreidiuint go bhfuil stiogma a bheith ina Chaitliceach. Tagann an smaoineamh seo faoi stiogma den bharulacha amhain na pearsan a bhfuil antaChaitliceach. Bhi me ar fhreastail seirbhisi sna heaglaisi Chaitliceacha o am go ham agus ta cairde Caitlicheacha agam. Cuid duine is cinealta i mo bharuil fein. Is cuma liomsa an bhfuil no nach bhfuil siad ina gCaitliceacha. I am an an Anglacan; however, I refuse to believe that there is a stigma in being a Catholic. That idea of stigma just comes from the opinions of the persons who are anti-Catholic. I had attended services in Catholic churches from time to time and I have Catholic friends. Some of the kindest people in my own opinion. I don't care whether they are Catholics or not.
Mousemess | Jun 14, 2012, 10:38 AM EDT
A Ghearoid, Nil an eaglais Chaitliceach an t-aon eaglais amhain sa domhain no in Eirinn. Gearoid, The Catholic church is not the only church in the world or in Eire.
Bythebay | Jun 14, 2012, 10:25 AM EDT
The Catholic Church will use whatever statistics it can to justify its existence whether those statistics are true or not. Anyone registered in the local parish for collections reasons can just tell them to unregister you and you're done if you're worried about numbers count. The pews are empty. People in Ireland know that.
NMcK | Jun 14, 2012, 09:40 AM EDT
The point of formally leaving is that the Church no longer gets to use ex-Catholics in their statistics when they start to play politics. Here in the US, the bishops are out of control when it comes to political posturing and attempting to influence policy. They never fail to mention how many Catholics there are world-wide, yaddayadda, but the reality is only a small percentage of those numbers are actual Catholics. We should have the right not to be used to further the Church's agenda. It's just one more form of rape.
esatdigiwank | Jun 14, 2012, 06:06 AM EDT
Its a terrible shame that the Irish sense of identity can And will never be decoupled from the rc church & religion. Little wonder why we are a conflict-scared, easy to manipulate nation, with obedient sheep as leaders which Won't stand up to outside influences. This is more imperative now than ever. There is a saying: 'Ireland would rule the world if it were not for Alcohol´. The same can be applied to Religion.
joan1954 | Jun 13, 2012, 09:52 PM EDT
If one wants to leave the church then do and forget about it. Who really cares and I, too, think they are attention seekers.
seanomelb | Jun 13, 2012, 06:52 PM EDT
You'll get no response from that mob in Rome,just leave and breathe a sigh of relief. The arrogance of Garoid4 and Tooreenagena to accuse those of wanting a formal separation from the church as Prima Donna's is a testament to their ignorance.
Ms.Gail | Jun 13, 2012, 06:32 PM EDT
It is unfortunate that this was not checke for grammer before it was published.
EditorCT | Jun 13, 2012, 06:20 PM EDT
Idiots!
McNamara31 | Jun 13, 2012, 05:20 PM EDT
irish2 Well said and true.
Gearoid4 | Jun 13, 2012, 05:13 PM EDT
Those who prima-donna like, declare their intentions to leave the Catholic Church but yet blame the same Church for officially not allowing them to do so, are "attention seekers" as Tooreenagrena describes them. Those who vote with their feet do so without raising a fuss about it. A person's decision to disassociate themselves from the Church that Christ founded is a major pastoral loss, as everybody is precious in the eyes of God. The Church should always look for those who have strayed away from the Fold in the manner that Christ the Good Shepherd would. A true, genuine Christianity must be presented to reinvigorate the witness of the Faithful. Catholics may find themselves like the Christians in the early centuries, a practising minority in countries like Ireland. But their witness will have more integrity and humility than before. @CiaraDexy, You assert glibly that there is a "stigma" in being Catholic. Not so, if one is genuinely true to the principles that Christ laid out, one can resist being stigmatized by the scoffers of this world.
seamus60 | Jun 13, 2012, 04:15 PM EDT
It appears they will prey on those who hold their faith close at heart and take the step of leaving as a big issue. Authority is their game even when some one doesn`t want to play anymore. lol
Tooreenagrena | Jun 13, 2012, 04:11 PM EDT
These people are simply attention seekers. Why do they think they need permission to not be Catholics. Simply leave and stop your BS. Did Martin Luther apply for a certificate.
seamus60 | Jun 13, 2012, 04:06 PM EDT
Portia 777 is spot on, claim back your own sovereignty, not that they ever really owned it. Baptism branded one with a seal, the seal being a contractual obligation imposed on your person by your parents with the best intentions. As an adult you now have the right to determine other wise should you wish.
Bythebay | Jun 13, 2012, 03:49 PM EDT
None of the other Christian denominations require that silly nonsense. Don't allow yourself to be treated like a slave by the Catholic Church that claims they have to approve your leaving. They don't own you and have no control over you. You're free to decide what you wish to do so do it.
Bythebay | Jun 13, 2012, 03:46 PM EDT
Be serious, if you don't want to be Catholic then you're not Catholic. You don't need the Vatican or any other Catholic clergyman to tell you so. As far as being stigmatized as Catholic, that's the problem of whoever is doing the stigmatiziny. You know who you are and you're not Catholic.
irish2 | Jun 13, 2012, 03:35 PM EDT
Keep your eyes on Jesus. The Bible warns us there will be hypocrites in the church. Remember when Jesus destroyed the temple? Remember the part the church played during the crusades? Remember Joan of Arc and how she was treated? The Church is not perfect. Learn from history or repeat it. You are looking in the wrong place. Look to Jesus for your answers and pray. The world needs us on our knees in prayer. Pray for the innocent children everywhere.
hermitTalker | Jun 13, 2012, 03:08 PM EDT
better limbo than hell I guess. Baptism branded one with a seal, so we belong to Jesus whose love never leaves us, even if we formally decide to leave His Church. We can join a heretical group and still call ourselves Christian but that is not his full menu five course dinner and dwelling place. Beats McDonald's and a cold apartment. Our choice.
aloistmartin | Jun 13, 2012, 02:48 PM EDT
I`ll be their are a lot of Irishmen who feel the same way about Dubliner Bourgeois Globalizationist pandering Government @!
jjkleprechaun | Jun 13, 2012, 12:51 PM EDT
Father forgive them, they know not what they do!
ciaradexy | Jun 13, 2012, 12:10 PM EDT
I used the Opt out service a few years ago and i completely understand why people want it back. Its all well and good wanting to leave but i wanted that piece of paper that no longer labelled me as a catholic and now I have it. Unless you have that then you still have the stigma of being catholic. Im glad Im free of that burden!
CitizenWhy | Jun 13, 2012, 12:06 PM EDT
Government education policy is based on the numbers enrolled in any religion. Those rolls, of course, do not reflect all who have left a church. The Catholic church wants to hold on to its lock on publicly financed schools in the south by keeping its rolls high.
wilhoef | Jun 13, 2012, 11:33 AM EDT
No one has to ask permission to leave a church.
jamieLM | Jun 13, 2012, 11:08 AM EDT
Portia's post is one way of doing it. I know Catholics who've left and they don't give a darn what the Church thinks about it. They didn't "ask" for permission - they just said they were leaving, left, moved on, and are doing well some place else.
Portia777 | Jun 13, 2012, 10:04 AM EDT
Word to the wise. You do not need to physically tell the controllers/church that you are leaving. That is giving them power over you still. Why bother to ask their permission to leave? and give your power to them.? You simply write out on paper or speak it- stating "I no longer belong to the Roman church. I did not willingly sign up for it.So I am free to recall my sovereignty now." And so it is done. Hope that helps.