68 Comments

• The Commentator | Mar 12, 2013, 06:20 PM EDT

  I noticed several comments about the distinction between a crime and a sin. By all means, there is no reason to report sins such as 1-5, 7, or 10 but criminal activity such as theft, murder, molesting children should be reported. The priest wouldn't be reporting a sin which is covered in religious literature, he would be reporting a crime which is in the criminal code. It seems very straightforward to me.

• The Commentator | Mar 12, 2013, 10:04 AM EDT

  Here is section regarding lawyer-client privilege. "There are situations when a lawyer is justified or permitted to disclose information without the client’s consent. Limited disclosure is permitted when required by law or by order of a tribunal. Disclosure is also permitted where the lawyer reasonably believes that there is an imminent risk to an identifiable person or group of serious bodily harm or death. The lawyer may disclose only the information necessary to prevent this result. I believe the church should be held to the same kind of accountability and it appears the proposed new law is doing that. I do not necessarily agree that past minor crimes such as shoplifting should be a requirement, but crimes that are likely to be repeated or committed in the future should be. Perhaps the real issue is that the priests, bishops, cardinals etc. hear and have heard confessions of their fellow pedophile conspirators and that is their real fear. Self preservation again. These criminals have brought it on themselves. Perhaps an exemption could be arranged for all church hierarchy to perform annual lie detector tests in regard to crimes they themselves may commit. That could protect the parishioners from exposure and hold the church hierarchy to the standard that is expected of them.

• misneac | Dec 28, 2012, 05:43 PM EST

  Shatter,Quinn ,Gilmore ,are pushing their luck in continuously implementing a biased ,distorted and bigoted agenda against the Catholic Church .They are lucky that they are dealing with a very tolerant organisation .They would not dream of querying any of the tenets of Islam !

• seanomelb | Apr 30, 2012, 07:47 PM EDT

  Is not a crime a sin against God?? what a dumb argument."Hey! father I robbed two banks and raped a teller", but that's OK it's not a sin against God. You need to get out a bit more Jacer.

• VonLiebenitz | Apr 30, 2012, 05:10 PM EDT

  The special relationship between the state the people and the Vatican is just and or outgrowth of the culture of cronyism.Something which the last election failed to address.In fact Ireland under Fine Gael is arguably even worse of in this regard.There,s a fine line between tolerance and cronyism.A line which for a lot of Irish people is often blurred.And i for one am sick and tired of it.

• VonLiebenitz | Apr 30, 2012, 05:04 PM EDT

  The church should never ever be outside the jurisdiction of the law.This goes for taxes too.We need widespread reform in regard to this issue.The "special " relationship between the Irish State and the people with the Vatican needs to end.Complete seperation of church and state.Nothing else will do.

• John Galt | Apr 30, 2012, 12:50 PM EDT

  Organized religion is responsible for more injustice, human suffering and deaths than any other disease, natural phenomena or governments over the course of human history. "Render unto Caesar ... " the authority over non-taxpaying mystics. Keep their imaginary friends out of government and my children's pants. "No representation without taxation." John Galt

• vsedriver | Apr 30, 2012, 12:33 AM EDT

  Does this mean that if a man who is charged with a sex crime against a child tells his lawyer he's guilt that the lawyer must then inform the court? I mean, if they are going to prosecute priests shouldn't lawyers be under the same rules?

• sirpeter | Apr 29, 2012, 08:33 PM EDT

  LOL@Seano

• jacersagain | Apr 29, 2012, 06:52 PM EDT

  Aside from my post below, what many people are forgetting is that in Confession, a person making confession is confessing sins, transgressions against the Commandments of God as given to Moses; s/he is not confessing crimes. It is the sin that the priest may give absolution for (not always guaranteed btw). Any State’s Criminal System has nothing to do with sin, a spiritual matter.

• jacersagain | Apr 29, 2012, 06:48 PM EDT

  One of the reforms I would like to see implemented in our Catholic Church relates to Confession. The Sacrament of Penance was instigated by Christ on His Cross when he forgave the penitent man hanging and dying on another cross beside Him. The whole thing was fully public – confession by the man, forgiveness by Christ in full view of all. We say the Confiteor aloud and publicly at the start of Mass (“I confess to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned… etc”), so why can’t the priest give General Absolution there and then, followed by the ritual Three Hail Marys or Five Our Fathers?

• cynicus | Apr 29, 2012, 05:39 PM EDT

  If the RC Church does not disobey this proposed law, they might as well shut up shop for good. Shatter needs some instruction on Christian-Catholic faith-beliefs. He is seriously ignorant of what is involved here.

• BBinRIC | Apr 29, 2012, 01:38 PM EDT

  Why doesn’t the church require the penitent to report himself as part of his penance and make that a condition of receiving absolution? If he is truly sorry he should be willing to pay his dues to society. I think this reporting should be to the appropriate church authorities as well as the appropriate civil authorities.

• Joe Burns | Apr 29, 2012, 12:48 PM EDT

  I don't agree with Shatter on a lot of things, even some aspects of this legislation, but I agree with him on Priests. I just don't know how it's supposed to work. It's fine to whine about the "Sanctity of Confession" but if you could prevent a child being abused, wouldn't you want to prevent it? Could you live with your conscience knowing that you can prevent the abuse but didn't? I'm pretty sure I could not. The Catholic Church conspired and in the process are responsible for a lot of abuse that occurred by shuffling offenders around from parish to parish. There were over 30 Cannonical Trials where they knew people were guilty but conspired to cover it up and moved them on. The one point however is that Priests don't know who is in the confessional, are they going to have to ask for ID? Will CCTV be installed in Confession Boxes? I'm serious, how does this work? Maybe install a locking system or a Trap Door for Offenders? Obviously they didn't think about any of this before writing the Legislation. Maybe the Gardai will send in Undercover Sinners to Confession? Maybe sinners wont bother reporting crimes or maybe the sinners are all Protestants or Jewish or Agnostic. I don't wish to make light of such a serious subject but maybe a little more planning or Legislation is in order? There has already been in place legislation that if you are aware of a serious crime that you are required to report it under penalty of law. If Murderers have confessed in Confession before, why weren't Priests reporting murders?

• jacersagain | Apr 29, 2012, 09:46 AM EDT

  (…more) Finally he concludes with “I leave you with the words of St Teresa as my motivation: “Christ has no hands but yours; no feet but yours. Yours are the eyes through which He is to look out - Christ's compassion to the world. Yours are the feet with which he is to go about doing good. Yours are the hands with which he is to bless others now." I hope… you will afford me the respect of respecting that Christ did exist. You may not feel He was divine, but His message is what causes Catholics throughout the world to serve Him and not to support rapists.” >>> As this oul' jacers, I would add that I think this psychiatrist’s post is one of the best I’ve ever read. We should all learn from it.

• jacersagain | Apr 29, 2012, 09:38 AM EDT

  (…more) He continues “For Catholics all over the world, we listen to the FUNDAMENTAL message of Christ to "Love one's neighbour as oneself." This spurs us on to serve the people of our communities and the most marginalised in society. It inspires us to reach out to the impoverished and poor (St Vincent de Paul), to care for the sick (Sisters of Mercy, Sisters of Charity, Knights of Malta), to educate the poor (the Christian Brothers, the La Salle Brothers) to serve the cause of social justice (Society of Jesus). The billion Catholics on the planet realise that as an institution (made up of (many good but also) some imperfect men and women) of the Catholic Church is not Christ itself and serves merely to perpetuate the ideals and commands of Christ which call us to a life of service. It has a larger, more potent message that does not deserve to be destroyed by the actions of a minority of its religious. >>> Being catholic does not mean that "I support the swearing of abused children to secrecy in order to protect rapists." It means so much more than you have an awareness of. Jesus did not come to heal the perfect; he came for the imperfect and the sinners. I am imperfect, I am a sinner...but I will do my best while I have the chance to. The physician does not come to heal the healthy man but the sick one. I am only one man but my gift is the gift of healing...and maybe I can alleviate the suffering caused by those who wrongly ministered in Christ's name but also to heal those who have suffered at the hands of their own flesh and blood. Christ, His message and ideals, brought to me by His Church is what motivates me to work and not to claim the overtime, because the work has a higher ideal and importance greater than any material wealth” (… more)

• jacersagain | Apr 29, 2012, 09:35 AM EDT

  This is what Irish man wrote (I'll assume it's a man, solely for posting purposes): “I am a doctor of psychiatry. I am by no means naive to the ways of the world. Day in, day out I see poor people who are suffering from terrible mental health problems. Day in, day out I see patients who have suffered child sexual abuse and neglect at the hands of their parents, teachers, siblings, grand-parents, cousins, uncles, aunts, carers, and neighbours. In a limited and I mean very limited case (maybe 2-5%max) I meet poor people who may have suffered at the hands of a religious person, and not just Catholic religious. >>> I am "fully aware of the atrocities it has committed and attempted to cover up," … but I am also fully aware of nearly every person in society covering up in some way the atrocities that are going on in their own families. I know of other professionals, social workers, teachers and in general... "society" who are continuing to remain silent and to capitulate in the covering up of the scandals that go on in their families, school etc in the way of the abuse of children. I understand that it is the nature of individuals to conceal scandal and as such I am not so blind as to attribute all sexual abuse to the church…. The statement is deplorable and narrow minded. The church "has" and "is" acknowledging their contribution to the problem... granted it was a forced acknowledgement...but it much easier to "dig the dirt" on a large body of individuals and to collectively blame them than to target individual families or paedophile rings. When families conceal sexual abuse within their families can one really be incredulous when a large institution does it. Hypocrisy is all around us and as usual in Ireland; in many ways we continue to have our heads in the sand.” (More…)

• jacersagain | Apr 29, 2012, 09:33 AM EDT

  Given the twisting away from the topic of Patrick Counihan’s article above by a few people obsessed with clerical paedophilia, the last comment by sirpeter Apr 28, 07.17pm in response to cuddlybuddly’s crassly stupid comment reminds me of a post in the public domain by an Irish person that I read a few days ago. It mirrors what I have often written and drawn attention to here on Irish Central. It’s kinda long so I’m gonna split it in the following posts. It’s worth the long read so I hope you will all please bear with it…

• seanomelb | Apr 28, 2012, 08:51 PM EDT

  "I absolve you of all your sins pedophile but don't worry your secret is safe with me now go out unto the world and be a good pedophile".Priests setting themselves above the laws that protect children.

• seanomelb | Apr 28, 2012, 08:47 PM EDT

  Gee! sirpeter you sure don't pull any punches,straight to the solar plexus. hard hitting and truthful,maybe that's what it takes to get a simple point through to some people.

• Collette2 | Apr 28, 2012, 03:10 AM EDT

  jacersagain your spot on. It's the best grooming facility there is. Forget the Jews and the Koran, this is a catholic issue, and a well worn one to boot. I stand with Minister Shatter.

• sirpeter | Apr 28, 2012, 12:12 AM EDT

  cuddlybuddly.Don't be so stupid.Women harbour more pedophiles in marriage than any institution.Yeah!!That right ye put up with all sorts of crap from everyone.20% of American women have experienced rape.30% of men have smacked their bi*ch up at some stage.Women are payed 25% less than men for the same job.Women die all the time in war.What are ye doing about it? Nothing!!And that's in peace time with laws.The only people exposed one way or another is women and kids.Putting it bluntly women have more to worry about than the Catholic church.Young women are never more abused and exploited than they are now and ye don't even know it.Men make all the laws.There's a hint.The churches all over the world are run by.....?

• sirpeter | Apr 27, 2012, 07:17 PM EDT

  Considering that the priests themselves harbour a number of practising and/or dormant pedophiles in their ranks it seems strange to have them policing themselves. However, this quaint idea that anyone can forgive any sins other than JC or the Big Yin himself is, as so much of the Christian religion, a load of houie dreamed up by a load of unscrupulous gits in Rome. Everyone should stand up as good citizens of their state and report the evil criminals that break the law. The law should be applied to all who break it. ANd for those who say that it is OK to rise up against repression just remember that JC said that you should obey the laws of the land. He was a Jew and never delegated anything to the none Jew Paul who usurped JC's brother to take control of the movement that JC had started. The current church hierarchy has no legitimacy and acts like a boys' club encouraging cannibalism, (Transubstantiation of JC's body and blood), weird unnatural sexual mores and outright theft of poor peoples money.

• Silling | Apr 27, 2012, 03:02 PM EDT

  Try and imagine a Jew interfering with the Koran! Are there any fundamentalist catholics left in Ireland? I should think so. If I was Alan Shattner I would be looking under my car every morning from now on for the rest of my life. Look at what happened the Titanic Alan and that was just because a catholic woman threw an egg as it left Belfast. Don't mess with the puissogs Alan. If the curse is on you, then there is nothing can be done, Jesus on the cross is testimony to that. As Bella Lugosi said " BEVARE ".

• AncientSeeker | Apr 27, 2012, 02:31 PM EDT

  The church has no control or common sense obviously dealing with the priests, that anyone in a democratic society would hesitate to expose someone hurting children should be tossed from the religion and the country if not jailed as a accessory. To me this is like harboring a traitor to democracy, it causes people to be unnecessarily put in danger or hurt, children in this case, while allowing someone who knows a felony is being committed to go free! The Catholics here need to be reminded why all countries dislike groups that form states within states, sure they obey the laws they like, while enforcing laws that are exclusivity aimed at their religions illegally in a democracy. Like women being second class citizens, they can not be priests right! That in spite of the historical evidence that were many women deacons in the church in the beginning, when their were two popes, one in Roman the other in Antioch. Do not look to church look for the factual sources with evidence, physical evidence that was empirically evaluated, as trust in religions these days is counter productive.

• cuddlybuddly | Apr 27, 2012, 02:22 PM EDT

  If there was ever a haven for paedophiles it's in the arms of the Catholic Bishops and priests...they will be exposed one way or another, it's a pity they wouldn't co-operate with the law however...this further damns the Catholic Church

• Silling | Apr 27, 2012, 01:28 PM EDT

  THERE CAN BE NO CREATIVITY WITHOUT SECRECY. ALBERT CAMUS.

• jacersagain | Apr 27, 2012, 01:24 PM EDT

  The seal of the confessional is not as anonymous as one might think, especially in small local parishes where the priests would know almost everyone and by their voices too. Little Johnny Kelly went to confession “Father, I’ve sinned... I’ve messed around with a girl.” The priest says “That’s you, Little Johnny Kelly, isn’t it?” “Yes, Father.” The priest asks “Was the girl by any chance Mary O’Brien?” “No, Father.” “Was it Siobhan Murphy?” “No, Father.” “Was it Bridie Gallagher?” “No, Father.” “Tell me boy! Who was it??” “I can’t tell you Father, her dad will kill me!” “Ok”, says the priest “Say three Hail Marys and be off with yourself and behave in future”. Little Johnny leaves the Church and meets his friend Mickey. He tells Mickey that he didn’t give the name of the girl he “messed” with. Mickey asks “Did’ya get lots of Penance?” “No,” says Johnny “But I got a few names…”

• Silling | Apr 27, 2012, 01:22 PM EDT

  Polling booths are designed to protect the voter from being exposed. So, Mr Shattner, lets get rid of the secret ballot, force the AA to remove Anonymity and finally, ban whispering. If I was Mr Shattner, I would apply for a foreskin transplant and then he might have some hope of getting this legislation passed.

• jezebel | Apr 27, 2012, 09:16 AM EDT

  First of all, it's ridiculous to think that they can even enforce this. Secondly, if priests were to give in on this then the state can make force them to tell about anything and everything else that priests are told during confession. There's a reason for anonymoty!

• IrelandNorth | Apr 27, 2012, 08:22 AM EDT

  Photograph caption: "People line up for confession in Knock, County Mayo." Signs pointing in same directions say Confession/Counselling? Might it not have been the case that at least 50% of the queue were queueing for counselling? If they're all Roman Catholic, do they get a concession? Ironic for a Jewish-Irish Minister for Justice to being setting standards for a Roman Catholic sacrament. Yet, a Roman Catholic priest is reputed to have warned the leader of the Black 'n' Tans in Ireland during the War of Independence of an IRA plot to assassinate him, whereupon he escaped to Canada, dying only in recent years as a very old man. Did that not breach sacradotal privilege?

• esatdigiwank | Apr 27, 2012, 04:30 AM EDT

  Breaking the seal of confession is a red-herring. The Junior Minister for Children conceded that with Pat Kenny, RTE on a live tv audience discussion before winter. The penitent remains anonymous before and after the trip to the 'Confessional. The law is not enforceable. Long forgotten how arrogant S h a t t e r is.

• esatdigiwank | Apr 27, 2012, 04:23 AM EDT

  GDillon: the Govt running Ireland are more than just Fools, they are arrogant. Others are also manifest in arrogance. As arrogant as the RC Mandarins. This polarising can and will give rise to a Sanc-timonious Tea Party style entity here. Asking to happen.

• Collette2 | Apr 27, 2012, 03:26 AM EDT

  "The Seal of Confession is inviolable", how many clergy will find comfort in that, were're talking about the spiritual murder of innocents here. Minister Shatter is 100% right, stay firm in that conviction, it has nothing to do with God.

• seanomelb | Apr 26, 2012, 09:27 PM EDT

  He most probably does deny the sacraments,but he lets the pedophile loose on the streets,that is the problem.

• Ms.Gail | Apr 26, 2012, 08:54 PM EDT

  Seems to me a priest hearing the confession of a crime like this should assign a penance that includes making amends or deny the confessor the sacraments.

• seanomelb | Apr 26, 2012, 07:35 PM EDT

  The confessional is the real seat of power in the RCC.Any priest not reporting any crime learned in the confessional is an accessory after the fact and should be charged accordingly. I hope Mr Shatter is as keen to demand that the Jewish Misrah is not used to shield lawbreakers in the Jewish. A current case in Australia where a pedophile teacher at a Jewish school was spirited to Israel.The college evoked "Misrah" and did not inform the authorities and threatened the parents if they told the authorities.

• brianmack | Apr 26, 2012, 07:24 PM EDT

  The confessional is a place where one can confess to a Priest ANY SIN and never fear it being revealed. I totally agree with the Priests on this issue.

• pilib04 | Apr 26, 2012, 07:19 PM EDT

  Seal of Confession my eye. It's simply an "old boys club" seal. Protect the cloth and all the men who wear it.

• merefalow | Apr 26, 2012, 07:09 PM EDT

  hard one this,the confessional has always been sacrosanct for two thousand years,i don't think priests who believe in this sort of thing will break their vows or beliefs what ever the penalties,my own thoughts is there should be no hiding place for pedophiles ever.what does a priest do when he receives a confession of abuse,surely he must do something knowing that the person may violate another child?

• Searlit | Apr 26, 2012, 06:33 PM EDT

  I agree with Eiriamach. Priests should refuse to hear the confessions of a suspected child abuser, and tell the police about their suspicions. That way they aren't breaking their sacramental law, and the pedophile isn't given free license to continue their crimes.

• jimmybb | Apr 26, 2012, 06:26 PM EDT

  did anyone mention that alan shatter is jewish an may have a personal agenda against the catholic church an how in the name of god would he enforce this ridiculous rule seriousally

• jacersagain | Apr 26, 2012, 06:26 PM EDT

  I read somewhere in the Irish media that it was other Govt Ministers, atheists and anti-Catholic men, Ruarí Quinn and Eamon Gilmore, who pushed this agenda re priests and the confessional. It’s Shatter’s name that comes into the public domain as it’s his Department (of Justice) that has to deal with it but Quinn and Gilmore are the instigators. Frankly, it’s complete stupidity to even suggest the law… every priest, bishop and Cardinal and all the Catholic laity in the world will support the Irish priests’ stance on the sacredness and sanctity of Confession (I bet Quinn, Gilmore and Shatter never thought of that opposition forthcoming!). Other than that I think LacarourSeanB said it all for me… brilliantly written & thought out.

• jamthecat | Apr 26, 2012, 06:12 PM EDT

  Yes, God forbid child rapists be turned in and prosecuted for molesting little girls and boys. Jesus would be offended...wait...what was it he said about harming a child, again?

• gordongoblin | Apr 26, 2012, 06:09 PM EDT

  They know it'd mainly be other priests they'd be reporting on. Still, let them speak loud and proud their contempt for the law and for the welfare of children.

• seamusdenais | Apr 26, 2012, 05:34 PM EDT

  Confession is the Realm of the All Mighty God. Alan Shatter is clearly a man who needs to understand that. If I was a priest, defending the sacrament of penance would be a great honor

• GeorgeDillon | Apr 26, 2012, 04:16 PM EDT

  In a country which produces more than its share of stupidity, this is a new low. Just how is this supposed to operate? Who would give evidence that the priest hadn't reported the child abuser? Guess who--the child abuser him/herself!!! Because no one else would be in a position to make that claim! So the child abuser goes to the police and says :"I am a child abuser and I told Father Jack that in confession..." What fools are running Ireland.

• billyjustin | Apr 26, 2012, 04:04 PM EDT

  the pigs have been hiding their own since time began, no court will persuade them to give up pedophiles to the law, catholic church, ha ha

• Silling | Apr 26, 2012, 03:39 PM EDT

  Alcoholics Anonymous is no different than the confessional.

• Silling | Apr 26, 2012, 03:37 PM EDT

  If the government want priests to dob in their brethren, then Alan Shatter should publicly announce the abolition of " THE OFFICIAL SECRETS ACT ".

• Silling | Apr 26, 2012, 03:28 PM EDT

  As a member of Alcoholics Anonymous, I have been told many an incriminating tale from those I have sponsored. If sponsors broke the anonymity of sponsees, the organization would loose all credibility. WHO YOU SEE HERE, WHAT YOU HEAR HERE, WHEN YOU LEAVE HERE, LET IT STAY HERE. This is the foundation on which Alcoholics Anonymous was built.

• Silling | Apr 26, 2012, 03:13 PM EDT

  lacarour Sean B's letter is brilliant, BE SURE TO READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

• Silling | Apr 26, 2012, 03:07 PM EDT

  The current government has hit an iceberg and just as the Titanic was cursed when she left Harland and Wolff, Shatter is taking the coalition on a collision course with a catastrophe.

• garbo55 | Apr 26, 2012, 02:28 PM EDT

  The law is a mute point. If a priest won't tell on a confessed sex offender. How is the police going to know. Are they going to bug the confessionals? That would pretty much be the end of confession altogether.

• Madeliene | Apr 26, 2012, 02:05 PM EDT

  LacarourSeanB Exactly, correct and well stated.-I think that Shatter believes that he is the OBama of the Church, blithly ignoring the catholic Church's "Constition" to suit his own needs.

• Rwnevnstr | Apr 26, 2012, 02:05 PM EDT

  Failures of law enforcement won't be improved by dragging priets into court to testify to something they have no knowledge of and the confessional is not a police interrogation chamber. The amazing stupidity and mis-handling of 'official' professionals in this and so many other matters is legendary. Trying to turn the confessional into their own spy chamber won't improve the performance of the incompetent. It is a spiritual matter, with the reminder of 'better to have a millstone tied around the neck and be cast into the sea' as pretty much the extent of available warnings. Leave the priests to their business and the policing and spying and surveillance professionals to theirs.

• eiriamach | Apr 26, 2012, 01:38 PM EDT

  Excommunication is less punishment than living with the secret knowledge that his fellow priest is sexually abusing children. The Church might punish the priest who "tells," but he'd have spiritual rewards, and praise from parents. Fr. McDonagh says, "Confessions are held in private so that priests do not know who is in the confessional box." Don't priests usually know when a fellow priest is confessing to them? A priest can refuse to hear the confession of anyone he has reason to suspect of child sexual abuse and report his refusal to the Garda. There must be some way that priests can cooperate with the law. Otherwise, the sacrament becomes an easy way for a child abuser to escape the law by confessing to any priest who has a reason to suspect him. If the confessional cured pedophilia as a medical doctor cures a sexually transmitted disease, then the law could respect the confidentiality of the sacrament, but it works no cure, and it leaves a serial abuser free to continue. The ACP should be thinking outside the box on this.

• Nicoletta | Apr 26, 2012, 01:20 PM EDT

  At least that got that one right.

• LacarourSeanB | Apr 26, 2012, 12:37 PM EDT

  A Priest divulging what was spoken of in Confession is liable to excommunication. It's that simple. The drafting of this law seems done for political and not practical purposes and has been crafted in a vacuum of ridiculously absurd ignorance. Of course there have been too many instances where elements within the Catholic Church did not live up to Catholic standards but that doesn't mean we throw out the standards or shun the organization. When Nixon broke the law in office, the United States didn't abolish the Presidency and abolish the government. No, the holder of the office violated the trust inherent to that office but the office remained as did the government. This Civil/Canon Law analogy here I think is apt. We need to focus on the possible and upon the right things and not dissolve into flights of fanciful absurdity. The Church will survive as it's a Divine mandate which keeps it going...and that in spite of the devil (NEVER forget that there are entities and influences about which we might not be so fully aware of) working both internally and externally while seeking to destroy it. Back to the matter at hand and sadly so, Shatter doesn't know what he's talking about. He obviously neither reads nor speaks "the language" but presumes to dictate within it. This is a multi-tiered and complicated issue and he doesn't seem to get it (Not that we within the Church did much better). Deplorable things have happened and then those things were handled in a deplorable manner. We need now to move forward PROPERLY and TOGETHER as we forge onward in light of all this obscene muck. Shatter's proposal doesn't help that. A priest can deny absolution and should encourage that criminal report him/herself BUT a Priest CAN NOT divulge ANYTHING that was spoken of in a Sacramental Confession. The confidence inherent to the Sacrament can't be breached. Not in Ireland. Not ANYWHERE.

• SeanO | Apr 26, 2012, 12:26 PM EDT

  The Lord said of those who hurt litte children, "A Mill Stone be Hung Around Their Neck and They be Thrown into the Debts of the Sea" meaning, there is no forgivness for their kind,so confession for them is INVALID...Priests, you have a duty to the lord to protect the little children, Jesus, said so..

• nolonger | Apr 26, 2012, 12:26 PM EDT

  As a victim/survivor, the problem I see is that after the abuse, the priest oftentimes makes the victim go to confession and confess what happened...like it was their fault. Do you see how that could pose a problem for the priest who is acting in persona christi?

• Skibberrean | Apr 26, 2012, 10:51 AM EDT

  DITTO ALASKANCHICK!!!

• AlaskanChick | Apr 26, 2012, 10:21 AM EDT

  Shame on you Catholics who think it's ok to cover up child abuse of any kind weather it be sexual or physical. Why does this not surprise me though? The Catholic church covers up and hides many abusers amoung their ranks of course they wouldn't want to have to report this. A good question to ask is what would God and Jesus want you to do? Your suppose to protect his flock from the wolves not get in league with the wolves. I wonder how you will possibly be able to hold your head high when you are at your final judgement knowing you were willing to let his most vunerable amoung his flock be victimized. This on the heals of the vatican shutting up a priest who tried to do the right thing. Shame on you!

• fmcevoy | Apr 26, 2012, 10:16 AM EDT

  Intercessor's comment is correct that confession as we know it took a thousand years to get off the ground. That still doesn't excuse breaking the confessional seal. Actually, the confidentially ethics counselors have isn't a broad as the Irish one. If as a counselor, some client admits to molesting children when he was in his teens (and he's in his 50s now), I don't have to report that to anyone. I only have to inform authorities if there's a danger to someone in the present or near future. (If I client says he's going to murder his family, I have to inform the world.)

• cavanpat | Apr 26, 2012, 10:06 AM EDT

  Shatter and Kenny have decided to wire the confession boxes to catch any paedophiles that might confess such a sin in confession. They are going to have retired Garda and special branch dressed up as priests sitting in the confession box. This is what they did in communist Poland and Hungary during the soviet era. This is how they spied on the catholics. Shatter has no quarms about doings this since he is not a catholic.

• mairint | Apr 26, 2012, 09:46 AM EDT

  Alan Shatter in his ignorance of the Sacrament of Confession - not being even a Catholic himself, thinks he can lord it over both priests and people. This is the new Irish Government version of Inquisition, under the other hate monger, Enda Kenny. So, what are they planning to do to priests ? Hang, draw and quarter as the English did at Tyburn ?

• esatdigiwank | Apr 26, 2012, 08:58 AM EDT

  This is a complete red herring of an issue. The Law in question cannot be enforced. A person who enters the confessional box R E M A I N S Anonymous!! How is a priest at the other side of the partition to know who the given confessor is? 'Peter Foyle's not going to reveal his identity to the priest or cop shop you know.

• Intercessor | Apr 26, 2012, 08:43 AM EDT

  Absolution for Pedophile Priests is what we call in the States, "Greasy Grace!" It's cheap and slimy! There was no such thing as "Confession with a priest" in the Early Church. It wasn't until about the 1100's that this ritual started, and it was probably started for the purpose of "Mind Control," by a paranoid Church, whose main goal later became to root out Heretics, not to be confused with "Hairy-ticks!" During the Inquisitions, the Church, usually under the treat of torture tried to get parishioner to rat each other out, to find out if they held any beliefs not in line with the Magisterium of the Church...... sort of like today, with the battle between the Vatican and our Catholic Nuns in the States! Would you want to belong to a Church, which offers this ritual to Pedophile Priests and the "Greasy Grace" that goes along with it? As a "Cradle Catholic" I left long ago, and with all of the "Greasy Grace" in the Church today, I'd be afraid that the rancid smell of it is something that I wouldn't be able to get out of my nostrils!