Irish priests say they will disobey new confession box law on child abuse

I noticed several comments about the distinction between a crime and a sin. By all means, there is no reason to report sins such as 1-5, 7, or 10 but criminal activity such as theft, murder, molesting children should be reported. The priest wouldn't be reporting a sin which is covered in religious literature, he would be reporting a crime which is in the criminal code. It seems very straightforward to me.

Here is section regarding lawyer-client privilege. "There are situations when a lawyer is justified or permitted to disclose information without the client’s consent. Limited disclosure is permitted when required by law or by order of a tribunal. Disclosure is also permitted where the lawyer reasonably believes that there is an imminent risk to an identifiable person or group of serious bodily harm or death. The lawyer may disclose only the information necessary to prevent this result. I believe the church should be held to the same kind of accountability and it appears the proposed new law is doing that. I do not necessarily agree that past minor crimes such as shoplifting should be a requirement, but crimes that are likely to be repeated or committed in the future should be. Perhaps the real issue is that the priests, bishops, cardinals etc. hear and have heard confessions of their fellow pedophile conspirators and that is their real fear. Self preservation again. These criminals have brought it on themselves. Perhaps an exemption could be arranged for all church hierarchy to perform annual lie detector tests in regard to crimes they themselves may commit. That could protect the parishioners from exposure and hold the church hierarchy to the standard that is expected of them.

Shatter,Quinn ,Gilmore ,are pushing their luck in continuously implementing a biased ,distorted and bigoted agenda against the Catholic Church .They are lucky that they are dealing with a very tolerant organisation .They would not dream of querying any of the tenets of Islam !

Is not a crime a sin against God?? what a dumb argument."Hey! father I robbed two banks and raped a teller", but that's OK it's not a sin against God. You need to get out a bit more Jacer.

The special relationship between the state the people and the Vatican is just and or outgrowth of the culture of cronyism.Something which the last election failed to address.In fact Ireland under Fine Gael is arguably even worse of in this regard.There,s a fine line between tolerance and cronyism.A line which for a lot of Irish people is often blurred.And i for one am sick and tired of it.

The church should never ever be outside the jurisdiction of the law.This goes for taxes too.We need widespread reform in regard to this issue.The "special " relationship between the Irish State and the people with the Vatican needs to end.Complete seperation of church and state.Nothing else will do.

Organized religion is responsible for more injustice, human suffering and deaths than any other disease, natural phenomena or governments over the course of human history. "Render unto Caesar ... " the authority over non-taxpaying mystics. Keep their imaginary friends out of government and my children's pants. "No representation without taxation." John Galt

Does this mean that if a man who is charged with a sex crime against a child tells his lawyer he's guilt that the lawyer must then inform the court? I mean, if they are going to prosecute priests shouldn't lawyers be under the same rules?

LOL@Seano

Aside from my post below, what many people are forgetting is that in Confession, a person making confession is confessing sins, transgressions against the Commandments of God as given to Moses; s/he is not confessing crimes. It is the sin that the priest may give absolution for (not always guaranteed btw). Any State’s Criminal System has nothing to do with sin, a spiritual matter.

One of the reforms I would like to see implemented in our Catholic Church relates to Confession. The Sacrament of Penance was instigated by Christ on His Cross when he forgave the penitent man hanging and dying on another cross beside Him. The whole thing was fully public – confession by the man, forgiveness by Christ in full view of all. We say the Confiteor aloud and publicly at the start of Mass (“I confess to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned… etc”), so why can’t the priest give General Absolution there and then, followed by the ritual Three Hail Marys or Five Our Fathers?

If the RC Church does not disobey this proposed law, they might as well shut up shop for good. Shatter needs some instruction on Christian-Catholic faith-beliefs. He is seriously ignorant of what is involved here.

Why doesn’t the church require the penitent to report himself as part of his penance and make that a condition of receiving absolution? If he is truly sorry he should be willing to pay his dues to society. I think this reporting should be to the appropriate church authorities as well as the appropriate civil authorities.

I don't agree with Shatter on a lot of things, even some aspects of this legislation, but I agree with him on Priests. I just don't know how it's supposed to work. It's fine to whine about the "Sanctity of Confession" but if you could prevent a child being abused, wouldn't you want to prevent it? Could you live with your conscience knowing that you can prevent the abuse but didn't? I'm pretty sure I could not. The Catholic Church conspired and in the process are responsible for a lot of abuse that occurred by shuffling offenders around from parish to parish. There were over 30 Cannonical Trials where they knew people were guilty but conspired to cover it up and moved them on. The one point however is that Priests don't know who is in the confessional, are they going to have to ask for ID? Will CCTV be installed in Confession Boxes? I'm serious, how does this work? Maybe install a locking system or a Trap Door for Offenders? Obviously they didn't think about any of this before writing the Legislation. Maybe the Gardai will send in Undercover Sinners to Confession? Maybe sinners wont bother reporting crimes or maybe the sinners are all Protestants or Jewish or Agnostic. I don't wish to make light of such a serious subject but maybe a little more planning or Legislation is in order? There has already been in place legislation that if you are aware of a serious crime that you are required to report it under penalty of law. If Murderers have confessed in Confession before, why weren't Priests reporting murders?

(…more) Finally he concludes with “I leave you with the words of St Teresa as my motivation: “Christ has no hands but yours; no feet but yours. Yours are the eyes through which He is to look out - Christ's compassion to the world. Yours are the feet with which he is to go about doing good. Yours are the hands with which he is to bless others now." I hope… you will afford me the respect of respecting that Christ did exist. You may not feel He was divine, but His message is what causes Catholics throughout the world to serve Him and not to support rapists.” >>> As this oul' jacers, I would add that I think this psychiatrist’s post is one of the best I’ve ever read. We should all learn from it.