135 Comments

• cynicus | Jan 26, 2012, 06:37 PM EST

  ancavker asks: audrey: Was your Grndfather murdered because he was a school teacher? I suppose ancavker hints at a more 'valid' reason for the teacher's murder! Murder is murder and a murderer is a murderer; no amount of snide questions or hints or conscience-salving self-delusion changes these facts.

• cynicus | Jan 26, 2012, 06:31 PM EST

  Hi, Read the Book 'The IRA and its Enemies.' It shows exactly how a dirty war was carried out by the IRA as well as others, in the war of independence in Ireland. Seems that ethnic cleansing was well-practised by the IRA in the '20s as well as along the border more recently. Patriot just wants blood-letting, the Hard Man! Where was he when the real fighting was being done? Usual latecomers to the scene of action; bitterest of all, especially when it is safe to spout hatred and a crazed desire for someone else's blood. How many more Jean McConvilles does Patriot envisage in his blood-lust? Or informers, or high-ranking touts and wanna-be politicians? Will some people never learn?

• johnymac60 | Jan 05, 2012, 03:04 PM EST

  @itsjustmacker Right on, lad. I was right there with you. I had an unpleasant discussion on the BT recently with A Loyalist who swore the Catholics had burned the houses in Ardoyne. I was there. It was the Tartans who came in. And well I remember the Brits standing watching as a friend of my Da was bayoneted by a couple of UVF. I have a hard time finding much history on the burning. Do you know of any?

• ciaradexy | Jan 05, 2012, 11:53 AM EST

  Patriot-stay in America because you have nothing of any value to offer the Irish.You say a million stand behind you? You obviously dont have a majority so. Audrey, very well articulated. I had a great uncle who fought with the Brits in the war and another relative who was in 'The Squad'. My family understands our history too. We accept it and respect it and like yourself,none of us harbours any bitterness. Each side of the family did what they felt they had to do back then and I am very proud of my history.

• ancavker | Jan 05, 2012, 10:06 AM EST

  audrey: Was your Grndfather murdered because he was a school teacher?

• audreybolton | Jan 04, 2012, 08:18 PM EST

  Niall, I think this article is rather shameless and the amount of hate spewed by the comments on this site is distressing to me as a modern Irish Citizen. As the granddaughter of a man who fought in the First World War and was murdered by the IRA in 1922 during the savage Civil War while carrying out his duties as a School Teacher and buried in an unmarked grave which we never found(my grandmother and her 8 children,including my father who was three weeks old at the time having to flee Limerick to Dublin) and the grand niece of a man who was in the RIC - both families lived in the same house -(who later had to flee to America with his family the descendants of whom still live there and have visited Ireland many times), none of us have harboured any bitterness. We are all of mixed religons. We know our Irish History (its history now)and think this hatred which some of the peiple on this site still have will do no good to the Island of Ireland. BTW I would ask again what is a West Brit? We have not been called Eire since 1948. Regards Audrey

• patriot | Jan 04, 2012, 05:19 PM EST

  I am not alone. A million Irish men & women stand behind me. each and every one has lost thisr kin to brits or west brits. We are hard men and we will never forget. You've been warned. Go back to britain where you belong. There will be no place for west brits in the new Ireland and I have not one scintilla of guilt or problem with their blood filling up the sea.

• patriot | Jan 04, 2012, 05:09 PM EST

  God bless the Provos, and the IRA and above all the ICA. They had guts and fought the enemy amongst us. Thank god they used violence and killed as many west brits as they caould. This has led to an Irish Republic and Irish co=control of the north of our Island where we are rapidly becoming the majority. So yes, Violence does work! And yes, the IRA are FREEDOM FIGHTERS whether you old west brits like it or not. BTW we hate you and want you gone and this will never change!

• seanomelbourne | Dec 09, 2011, 05:20 PM EST

  And many happy returns itsjustmacker.Dont over-indulge and be careful on the roads.

• itsjustmacker | Dec 09, 2011, 11:28 AM EST

  Hi seanomelbourne ,Poignant has various meanings. a. Profoundly moving; touching: a poignant memory. See Synonyms at moving. b. Physically painful: "Keen, poignant agonies seemed to shoot from his neck downward" c. Keenly distressing to the mind or feelings: poignant anxiety. D.Neat, skillful, and to the point: poignant illustrations supplementing the text E.Astute and pertinent; relevant: poignant suggestions F.Agreeably intense or stimulating: poignant delight. I have assumed you mean , "A". hope you and yours have a very Merry christmas and a Happy new year.

• FallsRNat | Dec 09, 2011, 10:29 AM EST

  barneykx - so you accept that the unionist view of PIRA is akin to the Black n Tans, if so forgiveness won't happen on the island of ireland forever, i guess that you have to be forgive, but never forget or just whinge on about ancient prejudices,

• BARNEYKX | Dec 09, 2011, 08:02 AM EST

  HONOUR THE BLACK AND TANS ,ARE YOU SERIOUS AFTER WHAT THEY DID IN THIS COUNTRY,OH FOR ANOTHER MICHEAL COLLINS

• seanomelbourne | Dec 09, 2011, 04:42 AM EST

  A poignant post, itsjustmacker.

• FallsRNat | Dec 08, 2011, 08:02 PM EST

  seano - i can say that the RA was just as bad because that it is fact, I have the family history to prove it, the difference is I'm not afraid to recognise the wanton murder & destruction caused by the republican side. youse just can't/won't accept any wrong doing by the PIRA, I assume therefore that Teebane, Enniskillen & Bloody Friday were justified killings

• itsjustmacker | Dec 08, 2011, 06:34 PM EST

  After reading these posts i feel dumfounded, everyone is mostly on about the recent troubles, I have been through these troubles, and i will state, i am not happy with SF, but i do know, there is good and bad everywere, some RIC were supporters of the 1916 uprising, so, i would say, Reluctantly ,allow a memoriam for the RIC, BUT, i would say NO to one for the Black and Tans, for those who support one for them, Just remember the Croke Park massacre, thats just one of many caused by the Black and tans, i am also an ex British Soldier, But when i saw what was happening to my comunity in Ardoyne, i refused to wear my uniform, i went AWOL, and informed the appropiate people in my area that i was in BA and AWOL, i was questioned for over 24 hours by PIRA, and was accepted into the community, i have no regrets for giving up my military career, i was arrested and handed over to military police, im not going to brag what happened to me, or what i done whilst AWOL, i was given a DD, "Dishonourable Discharge", my red book and all our belongings were lost when protestants decided to leave the upper part of Ardoyne (Glenard) when they set fire to there own houses so as catholics could not live in them , some of whom were B-Specials who fired into the lower streets before making a hasty retreat, Whilst the BA stood and watched,Now, Do you see my point ,and to this very day, i am proud for doing everything , and , would do it all over again, if i had to. I know life has to go on, but the days of your landlord having your vote and Orange domination is now over. Our country is an Island, Surrounded by water, and i come from a mixed family, my grandfather was an Orangeman who lived with us until his death and was buried out of Holy Cross Chapel Ardoyne and his Sons and grandchildren , Law abiding god fearing Protestants came to the service, i was so proud of my uncles and cousins that sad day, but no one from his LOL R.I.P. Grandad. need i say anymore!.

• seanomelbourne | Dec 08, 2011, 06:09 PM EST

  Scotchtommy good article but fallsrnat is not interested in reading any negatives about the B and T,s. His only retort is the "RA" were just as bad.That mantra is also used by others on this site Dan O'Loinsigh comes to mind. Thats how they justify British terrorism in Ireland.Fallsrnat equating the tans to the treatment of the Boers and the mai lai massacre is probably justified,after all it was british troops who herded Boers into concentration camps and starved them to death.But the equation has nothing to do With Ireland or assuaging Falls guilt complex.

• FallsRNat | Dec 08, 2011, 05:58 PM EST

  tommy - it's all relative mate, my family who fought in the 1916 uprising & then true to republican form turned on each other in the 20s were just as brutal in their war against the brits, soldiers, RIC horribly tortured & murdered, the depressing attitude of the irishmen on this board is that they can't accept that war is dirty & the use of violence doesn't create true democracy

• Scotchtommy | Dec 08, 2011, 05:10 PM EST

  Hi FallsRNat-that was the reason the British Government recruited the Tans - ex NCO's who'd been totally brutalised in the First World War and had got a taste for killing.Until they arrived the British Army were pathetic in fighting a guerilla war.They were ambushed ,sniped it, spat on and laughed at by the Irish.Then the Tans arrived.They (God have mercy on their souls)knew how to clear a street demonstration- fire a couple of volleys into the crowd and kill a dozen Micks.It's amazing how the streets were cleared.Irishmen disappearing with their bodies turning up days later -horribly tortured.The Tans instituted a policy of murdering relatives of known IRA activists -a policy which the Nazis,the Argentina Junta etc took up with relish .That was the famous Tan Motto."If we can't get you ,Paddy, we'll get your brother,father etc."As to winning the war- the British High Command in Ireland were furious when the British gov commenced negotiations with Michael Collins.As they pointed out at the time -"The Tans are teaching those Micks a lesson they'll never forget.A couple more years and we'll (and I paraphraph) have solved the Irish Problem"As a Brit I wish I could sanitise the Tan behaviour in Ireland but I can't so we must take the shame.

• ancavker | Dec 08, 2011, 04:00 PM EST

  Falls: What about Sunningdale???? That was bought to its knees, even before it had a chance to get up and running. And yet you say more time would have produced power sharing?? No way.

• GeorgeDillon | Dec 08, 2011, 02:22 PM EST

  Oloinsigh: "Down here we made decisions over recent years to tie more closely with Europe than the UK". And weren't they really good decisions! See where you are now--penniless and friendless. Abandoned by your European "friends" to servicing French and German banks for a generation, and pitied by the rest of the world. You're not just a lousy racist, OLoinsigh, you're an utter fool.

• FallsRNat | Dec 08, 2011, 01:25 PM EST

  interesting comment tommy, but were the tans any worse than the troops who put the Boers into concerntration camps, the US troops at Mai Lai, you don't normally win wars by being nice, you get down & fight dirty, the 1 advantage is that you get to sanitise your actions afterwards in the history books - everybody's done it inc the RA in ireland.

• Scotchtommy | Dec 08, 2011, 03:19 AM EST

  Just a pedantic note but the soldiers shown in the picture are not (repeat NOT)Black and Tans.They are British Army regulars and as the picture shows the crowd (mostly women and children) are not in the least afraid -let alone intimidated.Irish children loved shouting insults at the British Army (and who can blame them)However had it been Black and Tans on this street the crowd would have run for their lives as the Tans had a disgusting liking for gunning down anyone (man ,woman, or child)who so much as looked sideways at them.The Tans, brutal ,savage and ruthless were the nearest thing the British had to the SS.A blot forever on British history

• FallsRNat | Dec 07, 2011, 07:53 PM EST

  you shouldn't let past history define or influence you as a person, we suffer too much from a perceived victimhood in Ireland, where everybody else is to blame for our ills, so what that i was in the brit army, who cares, i still live here on the Falls, it doesn't mean that i don't believe in a UI, where i deviate from youse & sirpeter's path, is that i don't think that political violence is a legitimate tool in a democracy, demographics & population control futures & even if a UI existed tomorrow, there would still be a big peace wall separating the communities here, it doesn't matter if this country is ever united or not, if the people are not united then nothing else matters - Ulster used to say no, if youse carry on with that tradition when a nationalist ireland can into being then there really is no hope. There are 4 scenarios for Ireland; 1) status quo as now 2) UI where NI people those who don't want to stay eg. 99% prods & approx 50-60% catholics leave & return to UK, not likely to happen under international law, reparations for people leaving couldn't be met by Ireland or US under present circumstances, the French want the protestant hugenots back from the UK, so EU unlikely to support a UI on a religious bias, even if it meant a RC country. 3) UI comes into being & is ruled by germany who set budgets as now. Mass influx of SI people would be required to leave UK & take their place in UI. 4) Ireland ceases to exist & becomes part of the EU 17 country superstate & ruled by EU/germany

• FallsRNat | Dec 07, 2011, 05:37 PM EST

  The below comment was posted by Seanomelbourne,who the hell is null?

• FallsRNat | Dec 07, 2011, 05:36 PM EST

  That's true Falls you were both at different stages in your life.Where is the abuse? I merely stated a fact are you embarrassed by your flip/flop existence.BTW I am an atheist.

• FallsRNat | Dec 07, 2011, 03:33 PM EST

  seano - the brits aren't that much interested in religion, nor am i, if you read sirpeter's post below, youse will see his note about chaging religions that was what i was refering too, also could you be more original in your abuse, youse can't be a stickie & a tommy at the same time.

• seanomelbourne | Dec 04, 2011, 04:47 PM EST

  Spoken like a true brit Falls.No one is advocating one should change their religion,that's a figment of your imagination. The catholic church heirarchy have always been a part of the status quo in Ireland. I say a plague on all religions and those who use it to divide and conquer you proud tommy/sticky.

• FallsRNat | Dec 04, 2011, 02:45 PM EST

  sirpeter, i have just finished a community lunch with some loyalists from Tigers Bay. Your true clolours are finally showing through, no prods in Ireland, unless of course they convert to being a catholic, I have news for you my friend, that just aint gonna happen. You are also very selective in your 'west brit' ideology, there are plenty of upper class Irish catholics who speak with a english twang, i've met them during the ceasefire when FF & FG sent their top men to discuss the GFA. I can't think of many people who are actively seeking to hold up the RC as a shining light for the future, anyhow, talk of a UI is irrelevant now that the Germans are running the South. Could you also explain to seano what the armed campaign was for, he seems to have difficulty with a UI or better living conditions for catholics, i guess that as he never actually lived here in the north that his irish history is a bit dodgy. Look out for the 1970-72 Irish state papers tribunal results, once the support of Lynch's collusion with PIRA comes to light, even the yanks will be aghast at the inepitude of the then FF govt trying to create & run a terrorist insurgency in another country, shades of the ISI & the Taliban. You know sirpeter it isn't really the fault of the brits or working classRC/Prods north & south, most of the past troubles post 1966 can be firmly laid at the doors of Lynch/FF & their acolytes in PIRA. However, it would do a disservice not to mention Gusty Spence/UVF who were more than happy to provide the opposition. The brits had at least 5 working moles in the Garda, 2 of whom held very high ranks, the amount of paperwork that was sent via BE Dublin was very fruitful in the campaign against the paramilitaries, when this story breaks, it will destroy the last vestige of trust between the politicians & the people.

• sirpeter | Dec 03, 2011, 05:40 PM EST

  What is a West Brit you ask Seamus.West Brits go back a long way Seamus.For starters they would have been the Protestant ascendancy class who dispossessed the Irish natives of their land and all political power.With the help of the media like punch magazine they educated their descendents to despise or have little respect for Irish culture.Even though they lived in Ireland for 10 generations or more.It's a mindset really.Of course a lot of Protestants converted to Catholicism but the mindset remained.I know many fairly powerful people who employ a live-in English nanny to make sure their kids have an English tone in their voice.They do a lot of business in England.They have their own clubs and play cricket and hockey.Most have no interest in the GAA or even The Irish soccer team.Then you have the Irish wanna be West Brits.In the olden days they would have been the agents who collected the rents for the landlords.As for Roselawn & Seagoe Cemeteries I'm sure we could find a grass cutter.I could argue with your post but to be honest I couldn't be bothered going around in circles.Not sure where you are going with those two questions anyway.BTW Seamus you're a wanna-be West Brit or a wanna-be Unionist.How do I know.You also have no interest in any Irish articles on this site unless it's about NI.I take a persons word at face value.But you act more like a Unionist.

• seanomelbourne | Dec 03, 2011, 05:22 PM EST

  Fact before the armed struggle nationalists were treated as second class citizens,decent jobs and housing was reseved for unionist and the crumbs were picked up by the nationalis. Fact after the armed struggle nationalist achieved a better deal. You stickies washed your hands of the natiolists in the north to follow a communist agenda with a little bit of "peace man" thrown in.You were a failure politically and at the ballot box.You changed your name to the workers party and spawned anti Irish grovellers like mary Robinson.I sure love you revisionistism. A sticky and an ex Tommy that says it all fallsrnat.

• FallsRNat | Dec 03, 2011, 02:32 PM EST

  the armed struggle wasn't fought to release the NI nationalists from Unionist sectarinism, i should know, half of my family were in the OIRA & its sister orgnaisation OSF, I was a member of Official Sinn Fein, the idea of it being anything less than an end to British rule on the island of Ireland, is a cover up by senior members of PIRA who sold their souls & made a pact with the brits to line their own pockets, Gerry & co split from us because they were convinced that an armed solution was still achievable, we didn't & called a halt to our campaign. There are 3 major reasons why the PIRA campaign failed. 1) There was never enough support from nationalist ireland for a victorious armed campaign. 2) The Loyalists finally got their act together (in no small part due to the police enquiries into collusion), weeded out the old informers unleased a campaign of violence & murder that brought the nationalist community to its knees. 3) 11/9/01 - the day US woke up to the fact that the 1 man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter adage didn't exist & that they were all freedom fighters or all terrorists. i'm sorry seano, but the stormont govt could have produced a power sharing all those long years ago, but Craig was never allowed by the unionists or republicans time to see it through. The Unionists weren't bothered by direct rule because it was UK rule, you seem to hold everybody to account for their actions apart from PIRA - who still killed more irish catholics than the BA, Loyalists & RUC put together, a historical fact, just the same as the historical events when the RIC, Black n Tans were in town. I have 2 questions from you & sirpeter 1) what is a west brit 2) if a UI came into being what would happen to the Roselawn & Seagoe Cemeteries, would the irish state continue to pay for their upkeep?

• seanomelbourne | Dec 02, 2011, 05:48 PM EST

  Dan you seem to be umbilically attached to certain words "bombing" being one of them.The answer to your first question is yes!yes!yes! Are you in some form of denial? Nationalist pick up guns and the bigotted Stormont Unionst government fell.Were you not in Ireland when this all happened or are you just another American know all.

• DanOLoingsigh | Dec 02, 2011, 04:42 AM EST

  So the 'armed struggle' was to put a stop to demonising of nationalists? How did this work? 'We'll keep bombing you until you agree that we're a grand bunch of lads'?

• seanomelbourne | Dec 01, 2011, 09:12 PM EST

  Stormont rule may have ended in'72 the demonising of nationalists did not.The GFA solved some matters and there are some matters outstanding.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 30, 2011, 06:24 PM EST

  Of course so-called republicans have to claim that the PIRA campaign led to the end of the Unionist government…after all they failed utterly in their ‘war aims’ of a 32 county ‘socialist Ireland'. If the claim was true, why did they continue the bombing and killing for over 20 more years (Stormont rule having ended in 1972)? Explanation, please?

• seanomelbourne | Nov 30, 2011, 05:35 PM EST

  Anckaver the provo campaign brought down a bigotted regime in N.E. thus enhancing the lives of the nationalist people. All the talking in the world by McAteer,Fitt and Hume over 50 years achieved nothing,it was the aramalite that changed the paradigm in the north.It's a bit early write off a U.I. History will judge the unionist for their hate. I believe that the youth of all Ireland hold the key to unity, religion will become a by word and irrelevant in the future.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 30, 2011, 04:50 PM EST

  Kilsally - While it's true that the UK is Ireland's largest trading partner, the reverse is not the case. In order, they are 1) USA (13%), 2) Germany (11%), 3) Netherlands (8%), 4) France (8%), 5) Ireland (6%). When you think about it, an economy about tenth the size of the UK would struggle to be the top trading partner...the balance of trade is also in favour of the UK, by about 20%. By providing a 'land bridge' to the continent, the UK is also a key component of Irish export trade strategy...although you wouldn't always think that when reading all the anti-Brit posts!!!

• ancavker | Nov 30, 2011, 03:13 PM EST

  Sean: The Provo campaign set back the cause of Irish unity, or at best it did not help it. And it gave the west Brits (if the name fits, than it applies) in the south the perfect cover to turn into demons the people who fought in the war of independence. The Provo's were not the inheritors of that struggle.

• Kilsally | Nov 30, 2011, 11:53 AM EST

  Dan - Ireland and the UK are still both each others biggest trading partners

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 29, 2011, 07:18 PM EST

  Of course we all see things in different ways...I prefer to deal in evidence as opposed to wishful thinking...I see both parts of the island as far apart as ever...down here we made decisions over recent years to tie more closely with Europe than the UK, that is bound to drive the future in different directions...again only my opinion

• seanomelbourne | Nov 29, 2011, 06:09 PM EST

  That's your opinion Dan I beg to differ.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 29, 2011, 12:06 PM EST

  Seano - afraid the campaign by PIRA etc. has done more to copperfasten the border than anything else in recent times..plus the practical matters of different currencies, electoral systems, constitutions etc. It may be a silly border, but its gonna be there a while yet...

• seanomelbourne | Nov 28, 2011, 05:43 PM EST

  An all Ireland scenario dan,the overall nationalist vote on the island (and unionist if you wish).Take the silly border out of the equation.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 27, 2011, 07:26 PM EST

  Not sure what the SF % is overall...but yes Nationalists got 43%, unionists got 54%...what does this mean??

• seanomelbourne | Nov 27, 2011, 04:48 PM EST

  Quit the "holier than though" attitude dan it does'nt become you. So tell me what is the overall % for Sinn Fein after all that was the question. 43% voted for nationalist parties.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 27, 2011, 04:37 AM EST

  Seano – more dodgy stats, cobber…according to the Official Electoral site, the 2011 Assembly elections % were – DUP 38%, SF 29%, UUP 16%, SDLP 14%, Alliance 8%, Others 8%; So the answer to the question, ‘How many voted for SF on the island’ is ‘a lot less than those who voted for other parties’…also people compromise when they have different goals…they agree to respect each other’s right to their opinions, people who agree don’t need to compromise. Also I wouldn’t describe those posts as ‘banter’, I feel sorry for you if that’s what you think?

• seanomelbourne | Nov 26, 2011, 05:52 PM EST

  Shades of Chamberlain in your post fallsrnat.It's not about accommodation or appeasement, it's about justice and freedom for all. I like most Irish people had friends and relations in the provos and the British army.BTW most people compromise to attain a common goal.How do you justify over 40% of the people in N.E. Ireland voting for Sinn Fein and add to this the 13% of the people who voted sinn fein in the rest of Ireland.what % of the island voted for Sinn Fein? Mr.99.9%

• FallsRNat | Nov 26, 2011, 01:55 PM EST

  seano - no, i didn't shoot anybody when i was in the BA, would I have shot a PIRA member if i had been threatened with physical harm, of course, I had friends at school who were provies, they put a mask on their face & went & killed innocent people, if you live by the gun, then youse have to accept the consequences, what i see & hear on this board is no compromise when it comes to create a United nationalist ireland, even if there were no prods in Ireland, i think that you would find a sizeable part of the RC population who wouldn't want to live in it. Peace really is about accomodation, if you can't do that then you certainly aren't a democrat.

• seanomelbourne | Nov 25, 2011, 05:11 PM EST

  I did'nt abandon any argument Dan O'Lynch just bored bantering with a silly man. Democracy is my forte Danny boy.You deliberately misinterpret my posts.Because I disagree with you does note make me undemocratic,that is my right.Now who's undemocratic?

• Kilsally | Nov 25, 2011, 01:42 PM EST

  Thomas St George McCarthy, a Royal Irish Constabulary officer, helped found the GAA in 1884.

• sirpeter | Nov 25, 2011, 09:26 AM EST

  Yeah!! Billy Boy Realist.But who says I was serious.I just like annoying you.The difference with Seamus is he has a different attitude in his approach to my comments.He did answer my question and he did say there was a certain amount of discrimination.At least he's acknowledging that the system wasn't fully fair to all citizens (Weather it was bad enough for Nationalists to take up the gun is another argument)Seamus also realises and I can feel them in the mood of his comments that we either all win or we all lose on this island.This is my opinion too.That makes me interested in what he has to say.With you Billy Boy Realist you're comments are just completely polarised.So you get a different reaction.Delighted you remember me advocated an attempt on the life of Queen Elizabeth.People say what they want about the Irish on this site and think it's fine.We can all say insulting things.

• DanOLoingsigh | Nov 24, 2011, 07:09 PM EST

  Seano - you're pretty selective with your own stats - re post on - IRA chief cleared of affair with Clinton aide after 15 years - once I challenged your figures you abandoned the argument - you can't justify terms like ' probably murdered' - you have often supported and justified murder when it suited your argument - it's a good thing you're on the other side of the world - no place for your undemocratic, so-called republican views in modern Ireland.

• seanomelbourne | Nov 24, 2011, 05:14 PM EST

  Mr.99.9% is using statistics he's pulled out of the air.He twists and bends the truth to justify his anti Irish stance. As a former brit tommy he proably murdered innocent civilians in other places and he has no problem justifying the BA murderers killing his neighbours in Ireland.He seems to be prone to making up facts as he is dribbling across the screen.

• FallsRNat | Nov 24, 2011, 01:11 PM EST

  sirpeter - what do you want me to say, that yes we were so badly discrminated that we created an armed insurrection to produce equality. yes, there was inequality, but not on the scale that you would like everybody to believe, that's just a republican myth to assuage their own guilt at their murderous campaign. I cannot understand & nor to most nationalist here, the fervant sectarism being spewed from the mouths of our southern cousins, it is almost like you wish the war have never ended, have you seen the latest polls, nationalists to stay within the UK up to 50%, what is it that you in SI don't understand, we are telling RIRA et al that we have had enough of the violence. You pose many questions, but the 1 that needs to be answered by the southerners in relation to the unionists, is that if SI is as secular, free & fair as you claim, why do 99% of the prods as they have done since polls were created still do not want anything to do with a UI. That's what needs to be explained, you can make snide insinuations about my wanting to become british, but peter, i'm a brit, i was born in NI which is part of the UK, after the Enniskillen poppy bombing, i burnt my irish passport as i was ashamed of the antics of the so called freedom fighters who murdered in our name, i'm sorry they crossed the line. If you cannot bring yourself to accept that all war dead should be honoured then there really is no hope for any of us.

• Realist | Nov 24, 2011, 05:35 AM EST

  sirpeter: I think you'll find that FallsRNat did answer your question. lol....you clearly expected and hoped that he would not. "No Billy Boy Orangeman wanted here or anywhere" and then "it's sad because you feel the Unionists are not wanted"....mmmm funny that. Did you not just write both of these statements? Perhaps it's just a misunderstanding like when you openly advocated an attempt on the life of Queen Elizabeth during her recent visit to the Republic of Ireland? My friend why are you always the first person to bring up religion? Why the street corner sectarian name-calling? I've asked you before and I will ask again....what's wrong with you?

• sirpeter | Nov 23, 2011, 09:23 PM EST

  Seamus.I agree protestants were discriminated against by the church.I think this is obvious and very wrong.Not so sure about the state though.The Prods have and do very well for themselves down here.Maybe not as well as they did.But you don't meet a poor Prod.But Seamus I made myself very clear.I said in the history of Ireland under British rule.I didn't give a time frame.Just answer the question Seamus.You didn't give me an answer and it's sad because you feel the Unionists are not wanted.But I don't think it's true.It's Unionism that wants nothing to do with the South.Anyway you didn't answer my question.You never do haha.The bottom line is you want to be British.Personally I think that's grand.But I'm not going to change history and say both sides were equally wrong.No!! The Brits were a nightmare and the Prods treated their Catholic neighbours in NI like crap.That's how it was.Most Americans now admit they treated the blacks badly.Time to man up.It seems you can't even get passed that point for some strange reason.It like you have the weight of history on your shoulders.For me I'm passionate about Irish history.But for you your really are tied to it and it touching you over and over.

• FallsRNat | Nov 23, 2011, 06:07 PM EST

  sirpeter - is your question related to when the brits ruled the 32 counties or just the 6 counties, conversely the question could be posed were SI protestants discriminated against by both church & state since 1921, the answer would of course be yes, so how do you propose to square the circle. I have family buried at the cemetary where the proposed honoration is to take place, do i like it, no, but more importantly as part of the greater peace on the island of Ireland would I happily accept it to improve the lives of all of the people, then, yes. there is no future living in the past, you have to look forward or there will never be peace.

• seanomelbourne | Nov 23, 2011, 05:32 PM EST

  kilsally you mis-read my intention It should have read no more monuments to British murderers in Ireland.As I stated before my great grandfather was an RIC officer and he does'nt deserve to be immorialised.

• sirpeter | Nov 23, 2011, 03:51 PM EST

  Seamus.This article is inflammatory " Irish police officers want to honor Black and Tans killed by the IRA" It's bound to cause argument.The problem is certain people here are always defending the indefensible from what I can see.I'll just ask you one Yes or NO question.If you can answer it truthfully according to the evidence and historic fact then we can move on to details which are more complex.The question is~Were the majority of Catholic Irish people in the history of Ireland treated with equality and fairness under British rule? That's the root question.If your answer is NO then I can understand why you think the way you do.But would love to know how you come to that conclusion.If your answer is Yes then we have consensus on that at least.Yes or NO Seamus?

• Kilsally | Nov 23, 2011, 01:43 PM EST

  When the Irish `leak of Irish budget details from a German parliamentary committee, long before the Oireachtas was to get sight of the information, here were the gory details of tax increases to be levied on Irish citizens being scrutinised by our paymasters on the finance committee of the Bundestag.` is happening I think Irish freedom and sovereignty have much bigger issues than a memorial to the RIC.

• FallsRNat | Nov 23, 2011, 01:08 PM EST

  a sizeable number of William of Orange army was also roman catholic, this argument really is about the future & whether SI is truly an all inclusive society, methinks not & Enda 'PIRA' Kenny at the helm has started to alienate even the brits in the brit/irish council, these are troubling times, the unionists are losing faith in the GFA, most of us NI RC just want to put food on the table & the lack of leadership in the nationalist community is startling, we really have hit rock bottom if the best we have to offer is a bias pro republican view. I never subscribed to the unionist complaint that the Irish detest any 'britishness' on the island of Ireland, but now I begin to discover that their views were right all along. somebody once said in a film when asked 'do you like it here & replied, yes, but i cannot wait to leave' Ireland really is starting to show itself as an ungrateful, bigoted sectarian land, when the unionists are finally shown the door, there will be a good many nationalists leaving with them, a UI, I hope not.

• Kilsally | Nov 23, 2011, 12:47 PM EST

  seems to be alot of selective amnesia - 60% of officers in the British Army were Irish at one time. Blair `Paddy` Mayne from Newtownards in Northern Ireland and Scotsman David Sterling co-founded the British special forces, the SAS during WW2 - plenty of tributes all around the island of Ireland to British military figures from Ireland.

• Kilsally | Nov 23, 2011, 11:04 AM EST

  pipermac52 no I was also referring to the RUC historically - it had a substantial Catholic membership until the IRA started targeting Catholic officers in particular - a simple google search will reveal many articles by former Catholic police officers. The same tactic is currently used by dissident Republicans against Catholic PSNI officers in particular. GeorgeDillon - my point was that the memorial was to the RIC according to all other articles I have read not to the Black & Tans. Dunmanway8 - you forget to say that the Catholic church and Irish sided with the King of England against Cromwell`s Parliamentarians / Republicans prior to his campaigns in Ireland (on condition that Protestant churches in Ireland be banned). seanmelbourne - think you will find there are already many memorials to British / Irish / Ulster soldiers right across the island of Ireland

• IrelandNorth | Nov 23, 2011, 07:50 AM EST

  Looks like the counter revolution is almost completed by crypto-unionist imperial apologists. Those nasty 1916 terrorists fighting against altruistic UN mandated British peace-keeping troops. If the first casualty of war is the truth, the first dividend of revisionism must be lies.

• GeorgeDillon | Nov 23, 2011, 03:02 AM EST

  Kilsally, your belief that Black & Tans and Auxiliaries had nothing to do with the RIC shows your ignorance. They were under RIC control. In fact, if you look at the Irish Times newspaper the day after the Kilmichael Ambush, the headline speaks of "Many Police Cadets Killed".

• Aliciarose | Nov 22, 2011, 09:57 PM EST

  Forget honouring The Black and Tans, they were bastards. Came over from England where they were dole bludgers and murdered Irishmen.

• barneyjo | Nov 22, 2011, 06:23 PM EST

  @bogsidebunny - tell me, are you going out on strike on 30th Novermber in protest at the up-coming changes to public sector pensions, or are you one of Mhartin's acolytes charged with collecting taxes or some such activity in "Stroke City"?

• seanomelbourne | Nov 22, 2011, 06:22 PM EST

  No momument to British murderers in Ireland

• PiperMac52 | Nov 22, 2011, 04:11 PM EST

  Kissally, you are talking in present terms, I was referring to the historical past. The RUC up until a few decades ago were hard placed to hire a Catholic. Those Catholics who were RUC officers were considered traitors by the Catholic minority. Considering the North by itself is majority Protestant loyalists dating to the plantation of course they will never vote for unification. If the vote were opened to the whole of Ireland, now that would be a different story.

• Realist | Nov 22, 2011, 03:17 PM EST

  sirpeter: Lol....it may shock you to learn that I am not actually from NI. I guess you'll have to think up some other names to call me in lieu of a point. As for NI, well it does have an economy....it is called the British economy. The same British economy that sustained a €7 Billion loan to the Republic of Ireland. "The West Brits got that loan Billy Boy and as you can see they are erecting memorials to their murdering Tan and RIC ancestors"? Dear oh dear, tell me my friend, why ever do you write such silly and offensive schoolboy rubbish like this?

• GeorgeDillon | Nov 22, 2011, 03:06 PM EST

  "Of course after the 1500 Brits were mauled at Crossbarry by the IRA.The Tans decided to burn Cork City". Sirpeter, you're such an idiot. The Burning of Cork happened in December 1920, THREE MONTHS BEFORE the actions at Crossbarry. What a dope.

• Realist | Nov 22, 2011, 02:56 PM EST

  RockNReel: Lol....I agree with you, if you'd only bothered to read my comment properly....Ireland isn't an international laughing stock....to be that would require the World's interest....and they're not interested. Always looking for attention from the grown-up countries like Germany, the U.K., and the U.S. Yes, the economy is in crisis and what are they spending their time on here? Why, yet again banging on about the Black and Tans and the "Brits" of course. Just what the doctor ordered.

• Realist | Nov 22, 2011, 02:43 PM EST

  cynicus: I could not agree more. To hell with the economy....to some people here a plaque on a wall and their own Mickey Mouse victim addiction are much more important. Lol....anyone who challenges this 'order of priority' is automatically a "west brit' or an 'orange b**t**d'. Really, you couldn't make it up.

• cynicus | Nov 22, 2011, 02:07 PM EST

  What a lot of whingers! My poor grandmother-father etc, etc. Grow up! There was a war on, as the provos were fond of saying in later years. And if you can't stand the heat of battle get out of it. Nothing worse than whingers who cannot take or give their beating! And what about all those the rebels murdered/killed? Including those murdered to settle old local feuds and to grab land - as happened in Kerry? What about the murder of an old man, Arthur Vicars, and the burning of his house by yobs who 'did it in error!' All of the cowardly killings and burnings were not carried out by the RIC or British Forces. If you wish to carry on a hit-and-run, murder from the back of a bush type of guerilla war, you have got to be man enough to take the same treatment in return. I have no problem with a memorial to those who died in the Irish troubles of any generation. I believe this memorial should include all the dead, and not just the RIC. In that way we will finally forgive all killers and murderers, including the many Irish ones.

• Kilsally | Nov 22, 2011, 12:27 PM EST

  No, it wasn`t `stately homes` in the documentary, it was farmers.

• sirpeter | Nov 22, 2011, 12:11 PM EST

  The only reason there was any house burnings by the IRA was the Tans were using it as a terror tactic.The IRA in West Cork made it very clear that if the house burnings didn't stop they would burn 3 protestant houses to every one Catholic house.The Tans didn't stop the burnings and so protestant houses were burned.The house burnings on both sides stopped rather quickly when the Protestants got upset when they saw their stately homes burnt to the ground and put a stop to any house burning by the Tans.Of course after the 1500 Brits were mauled at Crossbarry by the IRA.The Tans decided to burn Cork City and didn't give a damn.But the Brit government did say sorry 15 years later.They do a lot of apologizing the Brits.But only when the truth leaks out.

• merefalow | Nov 22, 2011, 11:56 AM EST

  its realy good to see the response to this insult,i think if they built a bloody pyramid it wouldnt last an hour,great stuff.

• RockNReel | Nov 22, 2011, 10:05 AM EST

  Realist who posted below is definitely not living in the real world if he thinks the rest of the world doesn't care about Ireland. I didnt see any comment claiming that Ireland is an international laughing stock and that is in fact far from the truth as the tough measure we took are already paying off. None of us like them but we knew they had to happen . We are proving to the world that we are resilient and that we fight back against the odds and are already proving this despite this world wide rescession that's happening at the moment--not just in Ireland but worldwide and indeed in the UK as well truth be told. Theres a closer bond now than there ever was between the two countries and all you have to do is look at the amount of British tourists who visited here and are still coming in droves following the Queens visit. We have all moved on and we dont live in the past and its the future of our children that concerns us. As I posted earlier I dont think it a good idea regarding this monument even if the story has any truth at all, but we have more to worry about and we are busy rebuilding the economy and not living in the past.

• Kilsally | Nov 22, 2011, 09:57 AM EST

  Still not sure where the author has got the Black & Tans from as every other article I have read only mention the Royal Irish Constabulary - the Irish police force that later became today`s Garda and RUC/PSNI.

• Kilsally | Nov 22, 2011, 09:55 AM EST

  hmm RTE produced a documentary recently about Irish Protestant`s being evicted and burned out during the 1920`s by the IRA. Pipermac says "The RUC was itself biased against Catholics in it's hiring practices for many years and worked in tandem with the British occupiers of the North." This is false and there are many ex Catholic RUC officers on the record stating such - it was the targetting of officers particularly Catholic ones that created the imbalance - dissident terrorists are still doing the same with the majority of dissident IRA attacks on the PSNI in recent years being against Catholic Officers including Stephen Carroll and Ronan Kerr. Neither is there any occupation since the Good Friday Agreement voted for North South puts the constitutional future of Northern Ireland totally in the hands of Northern Irish voters.

• brennanirish | Nov 22, 2011, 09:52 AM EST

  These inflamatory articles bring the worst out in all of us....the irish irish-american and the british and their anglophiles. Based on the irish collective catholic "guilt complex" and a complete lack of a cohesive irish "nationalism", it would seem appropriate, for some, to erect such a statue. Its simply to soon, even now. Give it another generation. Other countries like South Africa and Israel don't have them yet. Why reopen the wounds? The conflict is barely over and still raging in some places. Let this alone for now.

• billie061 | Nov 22, 2011, 09:39 AM EST

  I will personally knock it down in honour of my grandfather.

• sirpeter | Nov 22, 2011, 08:21 AM EST

  Here's Billy Boy Realist talking about the Irish economy when they don't even have one in NI.The West Brits got that loan Billy Boy and as you can see they are erecting memorials to their murdering Tan and RIC ancestors.Anyway shouldn't you be polishing your Orange lambeg drum for next years self-inflicted riots or painting some road side curbing in the butcher's apron colours? No Billy Boy Orangeman wanted here or anywhere.

• bogsidebunny | Nov 22, 2011, 08:08 AM EST

  It's the "Jane Fonda" complex. Seated deep in Catholism is the strong "martyr syndrome". Or forgiving those who have sinned, even those who committed horiffic acts like murder, rape and torture. It's idiotic. NEVER FORGET-NEVER FORGIVE!

• TiocfaidhArmani | Nov 22, 2011, 07:17 AM EST

  I'll piss on it if they erect it.

• Realist | Nov 22, 2011, 06:44 AM EST

  I suggest you get what's left of your economy sorted out first instead of the usual round of self-pitying navel gazing. For instance, what have you done with the €7 Billion loan you received from "perfidious Albion" last year? Well, keep using terms like "west brit", "puller", and "tan" and you can slide back into the self-inflicted role of "priest infested backwater". I disagree with people who claim Ireland is an international laughing stock....that would only be the case if anyone was interested - and they're not. Wake up, belt up, and grow up.

• sirpeter | Nov 22, 2011, 04:07 AM EST

  @lokionline.You're grandmother is telling no lies.The only problem with "The Wind that Shakes the Barley" is you have to multiply all those events by a hundred in West Cork alone.Plus the fact at the height of the war of independence it was illegal to have three or more people meet and there was a curfew.Plus the fact you could be shot if you had your hands in your pockets.You see while the dirt poor Irish died like flies from TB and hard living.To the West Brits it was all a big inconvenience and the IRA were just trouble makers.A lot of people in Ireland have a real big blind spot even to-day.Anglo/Irish greed knows no bounds.

• Jamcelt | Nov 22, 2011, 03:46 AM EST

  They can't be serious. This should NEVER even be allowed as a suggestion...

• PiperMac52 | Nov 22, 2011, 12:26 AM EST

  My grandparents would turn in their graves. The stories from my great-grandparents regarding the viciousness and anti- Catholic bias directed against many innocent Irish citizens by the Black and Tans is legendary. The RUC was itself biased against Catholics in it's hiring practices for many years and worked in tandem with the British occupiers of the North. So just as is happening in America in the age of liberalism I guess history will be revised/whit washed to show those who brought freedom(and the Free state) are the bad guys.

• itsjustmacker | Nov 21, 2011, 08:14 PM EST

  who do these people think they are?,they must be working for the british, STILL, or, they have met with MI5/MI6, they have fallen into the same trap as the informers did within the P.I.R.A., but they paid the ultimate price, and, so should these people, as a man from Ardoyne in Belfast, I am disgusted that people from Eire should even contimplate honouring the r.i.c/black and tans, after both of them carried out atocities against the IRISH Nation. Our history runs deep in our veins, and rightly should do so, after the turmoil in the whole of the six counties in the province of Ulster, and, also, the Dublin and Monaghan Bombings, the latter being well set up by the British, and with co-operation with some in Eire, and also the R.U.C./P.S.N.I, and MI5/MI6. If this is approved, It wont be there for long, and, a question to those who have proposed this , do you really consider yourselves to be IRISH?, I Dont think you are, those who lie glasnevin would be turning in there graves. May God Forgive You, and May Our Lord Jesus Christ Have Mercy On Your Souls.

• Mercenary | Nov 21, 2011, 07:06 PM EST

  They've got some cheek. After how they handled the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, they want to erect a memorial like this in Glasnevin. Synchronicity: this article and the one about Druid's Glen selling portraits of the founders of the state appearing in the same dispatch.

• lokionline | Nov 21, 2011, 06:44 PM EST

  As a child in Dublin during the 60s my grandmother told me many stories about her life as a young woman living and growing up around Ballingeary, Co. Cork in the early 20s during the struggle for independence and the civil war. I didn't really give much thought to her stories as a young adult. But a few years ago I saw the movie "The Wind that Shakes the Barley" and while I fully realize that it is a movie and cannot be used as a credible source, I was at the same time astounded to see the stories my grandmother told me coming to stark life on the screen. If even half of what my grandmother told me about the activities of the British regulars, Black and Tans and the complicity of the RIC is true, then I suspect most of my relatives from the Lee Valley will not be impressed by the idea of a memorial. I'm curious about what is behind such an idea.

• sirpeter | Nov 21, 2011, 05:25 PM EST

  Most of us honor the two traditions since power sharing and the set up of the peace process.This article is about honoring murderers and traitors.The IRA did not shoot every Black and Tan they saw.Because some Black and Tans while harassed the people did not commit atrocities.The IRA gave warnings to over-zealous individuals to stop,but shot them if they continued.The bad guys were well known to the locals.I have respect for those who fought in the World Wars because they were fighting against the oppression and aggression of Germany.But the RIC were the eyes and ears of the Black and Tans and informed on their own neighbours.I admit not all of them informed.But the Tans were a bad lot here in Cork.Remember the Gestapo and the SS were legitimate too.But they murdered alot of innocent people as did the RIC in league with the Black and Tans.Been Irish,been the legitimate police force,been under English rule is no excuse for what they did.Saying I was only following orders and doing my duty under the law didn't work in the Nuremberg trials.They must be trying to get Enda to do something stupid.That memorial wouldn't last 5 mins.

• seanomelbourne | Nov 21, 2011, 05:05 PM EST

  The RIC were britains frontline bullies in evicting tenant farmers and protecting the british status quo in Ireland.They also served as guards on food convoys heading to the coast whilst the Irish starved.My great grandfather was an RIC officer he does not deserve a memorial.As for the black and tan mob to erect a monoment to them would be obscene. Let the British take care of theit own murdrers.

• KSERRAHN | Nov 21, 2011, 04:39 PM EST

  Not a good idea. Let it be done in England

• hostetter2862 | Nov 21, 2011, 04:04 PM EST

  This is like honoring the Capos who did the Nazis work against their fellow jews.

• Kilsally | Nov 21, 2011, 03:34 PM EST

  Ah selective amnesia, the RIC were Irish, just as the men who fought in World War 1 & 2 were, alas they were shunned as traitors by many too until recently. Some people still don't seem to get the peace process acknowledges the two traditions on the island of Ireland, as represented by the flag if the republic containing both green and orange. It it's perfectly possible to be British and an Irish, Scottish, English, Welsh or Ulsterman. Also seem to forget the RIC were the legitimate police force that dealt with day to day crimes, are you really saying there should not have been a police force to keep the law, seem to forget Irish laws and legal system are based on the English common law system.

• KevinKehoe | Nov 21, 2011, 03:26 PM EST

  The RIC like the Black & Tans were serving the British in the War of Independence, let them them build there memorial in Britain. My great grandfather was in the RIC but resigned at the outbreak of war and rightly so. Just as well to, as his son was in the IRA fighting the Tans and the RIC who were the enemy hand in hand.

• IronMountainMovies | Nov 21, 2011, 02:49 PM EST

  Reminds me of that verse of the revisionists song 'The Gentle Black and Tan' which deals with the burning of Cork which went 'Sure I only brought the matches, Cried the Gentle Black and Tan' Is it any wonder several former Garda Commissioner came out against Martin McGuinness's bid for the Presidency? Let the Brits and their fellow travellers here build their monuments, but in a place more appropriate than where the men and women who fought and died for Irish freedom are buried.

• Springfield9 | Nov 21, 2011, 02:30 PM EST

  While walking through Glasneaven recently, I thought to myself how modest "Dev's" grave is. The Cemetery with Parnell, Collins, Boland, The Countess .... etc would be desecrated by a monument to the RIC, Tans and Auxilliaries.

• Springfield9 | Nov 21, 2011, 02:23 PM EST

  My Grandfather probably provided a few of those RIC men with instant retirement. IN fact his favorite tool was a C96 Mauser Pistol. IN his words, "it wasn't Irishmen shooting Irishmen. It was Irishmen shooting traitors." You can guess his opinion of the "Tans" ...... In this matter the NYPD should just shut the F up.

• Kilsally | Nov 21, 2011, 01:46 PM EST

  Seems to be an inaccurate article at best, the Royal Irish Constabulary were not the Black & Tans. The RIC were the fore runners to both the Garda in the south and the RUC in the north. And the RUC had and the PSNI still do have joint training and cooperation with the FBI, indeed the FBI have paid tribute to the RUC on numerous occasions and many officers train and seve in Iraq and Afghanistan

• sirpeter | Nov 21, 2011, 01:30 PM EST

  Gobshite still at number 1 at the top of the IC idiot chart.

• seanmac50 | Nov 21, 2011, 01:02 PM EST

  Not every retired Garda wishes to erect a monument to those murderers. I served 36 proud years in An Garda Siochana, and I am very disappointed that some of my former comrades would even think doing so. Those MONSTERS burned my Grandfathers house in Co. Roscommon, leaving a family of 14 homeless, and on another occasion in Castleplunkett beat my uncle on my mothers side almost to death.In both cases the house, and my uncle was identified to the Black and Tans by an RIC officer.

• nedwardatlarge | Nov 21, 2011, 12:57 PM EST

  Did anyone notice that they waited to retire before suggesting this bull stuff. JUST A BUNCH OF BRAIN DEAD COWARDS who are probably decendants of Black and Tans. We may not be able to stop this this in it's track so go ahead waste your money. If you build it we will come!! and bring it down. Ditto to George Dillon but George there are still some Great People in Eireann. We still have hope.

• ancavker | Nov 21, 2011, 12:53 PM EST

  Well as i have been saying, what a sad and sorry excuse for an independent Republic of Ireland. Honoring the men who fought to maintain British rule in Ireland. These men had every opportunity to resign from the RIC, like so many did, but they chose not to. We are told now , well it is because they had families to support, well so did many of the IRA men. Mr. Meyers of course will have you believe they were shot shot coming out of Mass, which is a lie, and how they were ambushed, well how were they supposed to fight? Did they have access to weapons and ammunition like the RIC. Which was always the only armed police force in either Britain or Ireland, and the eyes and ears of Dublin Castle. What a sad pathetic excuse for a country. Perhaps the Americans should set up a memorial to all the British army members who were called in the American Revolution, and the various civil militias that supported the British.

• GeorgeDillon | Nov 21, 2011, 12:13 PM EST

  Now will you agree with what I have stated on this site ons several occasions: the current generation of Irish are utter fools. It's probably the last generation of Irish to rule themselves, and maybe they didn't deserve autonomy.

• falconflash | Nov 21, 2011, 12:09 PM EST

  go ahead and build it, and there's enough of us around to tear it down. always.

• merefalow | Nov 21, 2011, 12:08 PM EST

  there is a fifth column in ireland..

• Sparklet | Nov 21, 2011, 11:39 AM EST

  I hear that Israel is planning a memorial for all the Nazis who died in WW2.

• kilkenny999 | Nov 21, 2011, 11:36 AM EST

  ireland is still half free.why,because its crawling with informers.and now they want to honour each other.

• Opoets99 | Nov 21, 2011, 11:05 AM EST

  My Irish mother spinning in her grave....

• Murph46 | Nov 21, 2011, 10:59 AM EST

  Honor Thugs? Why pray tell?

• pounder | Nov 21, 2011, 10:58 AM EST

  What?????

• mcdolan | Nov 21, 2011, 10:39 AM EST

  A monument to the Black & Tans? You've got to be kidding! RIC I can accept. There were many, many people in civil service under British rule and we don't villianize them (the mail and telegraph delivers, for example). But the 'Tans burned my (eventual) grandmother and her family out of their home and destroyed most of the other houses in Slate Street during the 1920s, causing them to leave for the US for safety and a new life. No thanks.

• RockNReel | Nov 21, 2011, 10:38 AM EST

  I agree with those here who commented Maybe for the RIC but definitely not the murderous Black and Tans who burned their way across Ireland. There are some here who seem to want to re -write history and claim that these killers were just doing their job but they were much more than that -they were evil. Lets not worry here guys--there will be No memorial ever erected in Ireland to them. I would love to see them try it though -considering the mood of the people here at present. That would really go down well !!

• Tooreenagrena | Nov 21, 2011, 10:38 AM EST

  Maybe they should also also erect a memorial to Cromwells roundheads and maybe also Elizabeth Tudor's soldiers. I am sure a few of those soldiers must have been killed in between massacring the Irish. I hope a few of Cromwells men were also surrounded by a couple of hundred angry Irish citizens Mr Myers.

• CanadianPat | Nov 21, 2011, 10:29 AM EST

  The Tans, the IRC who did not resign during the Troubles, as wll as the RUC, and Special Branch have brought on disgrace and dishonor to honest Police men and women!

• greensod | Nov 21, 2011, 10:22 AM EST

  Surley, this is just a joke.

• barneyclancy | Nov 21, 2011, 10:11 AM EST

  To Carrickcourt Parnell's monument it easy to find. When you enter Glasnevin, turn left and you will see a church. Just beyond it is a large patch of grass with a boulder in the center carrying a plain inscription "PARNELL" Don't miss the new Glasnevin museum when you visit. Excellent! ! ! Why would anyone on Irish soil want to honor the Black and Tans?????

• stephendoyle | Nov 21, 2011, 10:06 AM EST

  The Black and Tans were nothing but brutal mercenaries, plain and simple. They had the choice to support Ireland or Britian. These thugs did the dirty and brutal work that regular British troops would not. They deserve not sympathy or memorial. The tombstones of the people they killed is the only memorial than need in Ireland.........

• rugbyplayer | Nov 21, 2011, 10:05 AM EST

  Enough of this sobbing: the Black and Tans were murderers!

• rugbyplayer | Nov 21, 2011, 10:04 AM EST

  It is, of course, fitting and appropriate that, at long last, we recognize all those who were killed or murdered - and especially those who were falsely villified - during that most dubious period in Irish history, 1916-1923. The RIC were policemen, almost all Irish and Catholic. Almost all were murdered - ambushed and shot in the back at close range by our brave lads. The so-called Black and Tans did not come from British prisons and lunatic asylums as the dunces and the ignorant prefer to believe. At times their conduct - and that of the Auxillaries - was reprehensible but most certainly no more than that of the IRA, which killed and murdered more Irish Catholics than the RIC, Black and Tans and British Army combined during this period. We have been spoon-fed and lazily swallowed a false history of our glorious war of independence and less glorious civil war. As we approach the centenary of 1916 and its aftermath, the government is a bit uneasy as to how it should be commemorated and rightly so - as, finally, after 90 years on, that whole sorry episode is being re-examined without fear and absent the baggage of myth and lies.

• maryosullivan | Nov 21, 2011, 10:00 AM EST

  This morning a representative of the Simon Wiesenthal was denouncing the lack of support he was getting in grabbing a one known remaining "nazi terrorist" while lunatics in Ireland want to honor those who killed their brothers and sisters, all this while Gerry McGeough and Michael as locked up on trumped-up charges HAVE THEY NO SHAME?????

• tocon1941 | Nov 21, 2011, 09:56 AM EST

  Beware of those who would re-write your history. If those RIC men and the Tans and the British army has succeeded you would all be shoveling horse droppings in some stable and singing "God save the Queen." That proposed memorial belongs in England, not Ireland.

• carrickcourt | Nov 21, 2011, 09:37 AM EST

  I think the other comments on this issue of a monument for RIC and DMP miss the point that Irish people died during the War of Independence on all 'sides'. I am sure a number of the RIC officers who were killed during the War of Independence were just poor lads trying to make a living who had no allegiance to any of the 'sides' of the War of Independence. The simple explanations concerning the War of Independence are sometimes divorced from the realities of this war. Why not have an RIC and DMP monument at Glasnevin. Do any of you know where Parnell's monument, a large but very plain one by the way, is at Glasnevin?

• ReturnedYank | Nov 21, 2011, 09:31 AM EST

  Awful idea. If all those State-funded retirees have time to spare, why don't they get to work and track down the Dublin & Monaghan bombers? It might make up for their inability to do so while they were employed full time on the taxpayer's dime.

• Cedric123 | Nov 21, 2011, 09:29 AM EST

  I can see honoring the fallen members of the R.I.C. but not the black and tans!

• eiregirl | Nov 21, 2011, 09:22 AM EST

  Are you kidding me? Don't these retirees have anything better to do with their time? Go and volunteer somewhere and do something for the betterment of the human race. Hopefully that letter to Enda Kenny will get lost in the post!

• stephendoyle | Nov 21, 2011, 09:18 AM EST

  What idiot thought of this idea? Sure they can build a memorial, but build it in Britian where it belongs......

• CaptainCon | Nov 21, 2011, 09:06 AM EST

  They can club together and put up marble memorials if they like. But bearing in mind regular commissioned British Army Officers wouldn't even share a mess with the Black and Tans because they knew they were the scrapings of British prisons the Gardai can make fools of themselves if they want. Any odds on how long it will take before the little marble monument gets converted to dust? There must be some real thick spanner of a Garda behind this idea. Tell 'em to pay for it out of their overtime and the idea would soon be shelved.

• OleSarge | Nov 21, 2011, 08:23 AM EST

  I understand the RIC members wanting a memorial to their fallen members. But not on the same hollow ground where the "Leaders of 16 are buried". The RIC tried to maintain British oppression in Ireland, the Leaders of the Easter Rising started Ireland on the road to liberty and nationhood.

• sirpeter | Nov 21, 2011, 08:13 AM EST

  Do!! Put up a memorial to the RIC and the Black and Tans.They were a grand bunch of lads.They only burnt down my city and terrorized the people.It's always good to have a memorial to spit at.Kevin Myarse I think you should know that the IRA let most captured RIC and Black and Tans go.Mostly it was the most brutal worst offenders who were targeted and shot.There was really no mystique about it.

• IrelandNorth | Nov 21, 2011, 07:54 AM EST

  Irish Catholics honouring British Black 'n' Tans is like Jews nominating retired Gestapo members in Argentina for the Nobel Peace Prize. Is there any limit to the elective stupidity & historical amnesia of incurable revisionists, who insist and persist in viewing the past through rose-tinted [retro]spectacles of proto-unionism. Must surely be peerages in the pipline Messrs. Myres and McCarthy.

• gobdawpaddy | Nov 21, 2011, 07:39 AM EST

  I await posts from the usual suspects here who might refer to these retired police officers as 'free staters, west brits, traitors' etc. Of course these posters consider Detective Gerry McCabe to be a casualty of war, killed as RA heroes were engaged in the noble act on behalf of Ireland, of knocking over an armored truck.