Irish nun excommunicated after abortion to save mother decision

Carroll09, perhaps you would care to read Patrick Cooper's follow-up article in today's IC (May 23). Your non-sensical, double-talk response below is not worthy of comment.

TomSwinford - no one is condemning the mother to death.The point is that Sr McBride and those involved made a conscious decision to DIRECTLY cause the death of the child. There was a conscious decision taken that the mother's life was of more value than the child's. Their decision should have been one which involved doing everything possible to give both the best chance of life. The mother deserved treatment - maybe the child would have died as a side-effect of this treatment,we can't know either way now. So the Catholic view is not "save the child even if the mother dies" or "let both die"- the teaching is that ALL of life deserves to be protected from conception to natural death.

FromPhoenix- no,excommunication does not only apply when someone is unborn.All sin separates us from God,but no one who repents is refused forgiveness.An excommunication itself is the fault of the person who has committed the sin, not a bishop or a diocese.Mr Reed's life was indeed as valuable as anyone else's- indeed the life of the aborted child was as valuable as anyone else's.Bishop O'Brien accepted the verdict and sentence,resigned from his diocese and expressed remorse for his actions.Granted,his remorse won't bring back Mr Reed,but he has at least faced and accepted punishment for his crime.

Well Carroll09, how do you feel about Bishop Thomas O'Brien from Phoenix's situation? He took a human life, ran from the scene of the crime and tried to cover up his vehicular homicide. Why did the diocese pay his legal bills and not excommunicate him instead? Wasn't the Native American's life as valuable? Does excommunication only apply when someone is "unborn?"

It is a universal value - and one shared by most in the pro-life movement - that an abortion is acceptable when the life of the mother is at grave risk. I believe that most reasonable, rational, caring people would accept this. What if this mother is already caring for several children and what if the fetus is only two weeks old, a collection of cells? Would you still condemn this mother to death? What kind of moral lunacy is this? Carroll09, in this matter, moral relativism applies. It is truly ironic that a church whose global crimes against children, countless young lives shattered and destroyed,shocks the conscience of everyone, hypocritically stands in defense of the unborn. Sister McBride is a woman of conscience and reason. God Bless her.

You need to get away from your moral relativism, FromPhoenix: no one here disputes the seiousness of abuse which some clergy were involved in, but using that to justify what Ms McBride did does nothing but further erode the high value which should be placed on each and every life. It's sad that you call those hospitals willing to kill unborn children "enlightened": a Catholic has a duty, which Ms McBride abandoned, to do their best to save both lives, not to decide which one is more valuable than the other - McBride's failure was in deciding that the child should die as a DIRECT result of their "intervention".

Just one more thing: Phoenix has a large number of hospitals where this woman could have had her abortion. It's unfortunate that she didn't go to one of those enlightened hospitals to have the procedure done. The fact that such a discussion was taken on by the administration of St. Joseph's Hospital seems incongruous. They should have transferred her for the procedure. It's so sad that McBride pays this price while Bishop Thomas O'Brien goes free and stays in the good graces of the church despite murdering a man and fleeing the scene of the accident. You can find more information on the vehicular homicide and other iniquities by Bishop O'Brien at http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/search/index?keywords=%22bishop thomas o%27brien%22

Additionally I would like to say that one of the Catholic Health Systems in the US has purchased a number of small town hopsitals. Often those hospitals have pharmacies in them. I know of one in particular that had a contract with a secular college to fill student's prescriptions and bill them instead of demanding payment outright. Many of the girls took birth control pills. So, after the hospital became a Catholic hospital, to save its profitable contract with the college, it continued to dispense birth control pills by getting them from a local pharmacy after their supply ran out. A number of ex-Catholics brought this to the attention of the bishop of Phoenix's office. They finally lost their contract with the college and ended up closing the doors of the pharmacy after losing the lucrative contract. People were not told and when they went in to fill their prescriptions, they saw a sign on the door that told them that their medical records were turned over to another pharmacy. Without their knowledge and permission.

I am from Phoenix and I worked at St. Joseph's Hospital. I am very troubled that Sister Margaret McBride was excommunicated. And here is why: The former bishop of Phoenix, Bishop Thomas O'Brien, was one of the key bishops who routinely shuttled pedophile priests from one parish to another and from one state in the US to another. On top of that, he was driving his car and struck a tall Native American man who was crossing the street in Phoenix. Instead of stopping and helping and calling 911, he fled the scene. The Native American man died on the scene. Bishop O'Brien hid his car and tried to have the front of it repaired before the police could find him. The diocese did not cooperate fully with the Phoenix Police and Bishop O'Brien refused to come to the door when they went to his home after discovering it was his car. Bishop O'Brien was brought to trial, his legal fees were paid for by the diocese of Phoenix, and after committing a hit and run, vehicular homicide, and evading arrest, he was "sentenced" to probation and community service. Was he excommunicated? No. Is he still a priest? Yes. Did the church support him? Of course. Sister Margaret McBride was trying to save the life of this mother. Bishop Thomas O'Brien put children in harms way with pedophile priests, threatened children's parents if they went to the media, and then murdered a man crossing the street. And people wonder why people like me left the church. This latest debacle affirms my decision.

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God bless this good person. Shame on the dark ages bishop,

Sister Margaret should be sacked at once. How in blazes does a supposed medical ethicist think that killing an innocent child is somehow a 'treatment'? There were two patients involved, the mother AND the child, and the needs of both needed to be addressed. The correct course of action was a C-Section and to bring in a neonatalogist ASAP. Yes the child is much younger than the standard viability age, but it deserved to be rescued at treated. It is a person too.

@Camilam42 - Since your posts seem to proffer yourself as a Catholic & bible expert, I have a question for you because I have looked & looked & can't find it...where exactly in the New Testiment does Jesus speak out against abortion?

For the record, I don’t believe Sr. McBride should have been excommunicated for her and her colleagues’ decision. The ground rules for excommunication need to be revisited by our Church leaders. On this article’s account I’m not aware of them in Apostolic Tradition or in the Bible. Sr. McBride might well pray to a fellow nun, Sr. Mary MacKillop of Australia who also suffered because of her local bishop’s decisions, as should we Catholics who support all good nuns pray. Sr.Mary MacKillop was once excommunicated for the manner of her charitable work but was later re-admitted to the Catholic Church, beatified in 1995 and later this year will be declared a Saint of Heaven. >> http://saints.sqpn.com/saint-mary-mackillop/ << or here: >> http://anunslife.org/2010/02/22/mary-mackillop-sister-first-australian-saint/ May the peace of God be with Sr. McBride.

I’m not into medicine but I am into science and technology – and I am an Irish Catholic. I’ve read all comments below. I agree and disagree w/ some and on others I hang in the middle. My understanding of the Church’s teaching re abortion is that all human life is sacred and no one has the right to take that human life away, either in the womb or outside of it. The crux of the Church’s teachings on the sacredness of all human life is that at the moment of conception, not only is a new human being created but a new soul is also created by God and no one but God has the right to the life of that soul. From this story, it seems that if this abortion had not been carried out, then both mother and child would have died. In other words, the souls of both would have returned to their Maker and we of us left in this world would have had to live with the human tragedy. It’s a tough call... to choose to decide for God on the souls He created or to be a human being with feelings for sick fellow-humans and give them a chance of living longer? We need more guidance from our Catholic Church on this dilemma and better explanations, not excommunications of people who are fully committed Christians and Catholics. Which is more “paramount” – the souls of our God or the human charity and love which God gave us all to exercise?