Irish homeowners can now legally shoot anyone who enters their property – a move that has been slammed by civil liberties campaigners in a row with Justice Minister Alan Shatter.
Legislation has now come into effect that allows homeowners to use "reasonable force" to defend themselves, their families and their property.
The new home defense bill has moved the balance of rights back to the house owner if his home is broken into "where it should always have been," say top Irish police.
The police association of superintendents and inspectors, the AGSI, stated before the bill became law, that “the current situation, which legally demands a house owner retreat from an intruder, was intolerable."
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The Irish Council for Civil Liberties, however, is highly critical of the change in the law but Justice Minister Alax Shatter has denied it is a "license to kill."
Council director Mark Kelly has labeled the new law "lax" on home defense and is highly critical of the legislation.
Kelly said: “These are lax proposals, which contain insufficiently robust legal safeguards to protect the right to life of householders or intruders.
“The law encourages people to use lethal force to defend their property and is at odds with Article 2 (right to life) of the European Convention on Human Rights which obliges the state to ensure that lethal force can only be used if absolutely necessary and strictly proportionate in all the circumstances.”
In response, Minister Shatter has countered the claims that the law now serves as a freehand to kill an intruder.
Shatter said that previously the law lacked clarity in relation to the rights of householders who discovered a burglar in their home.
“This has now been resolved by the legislation which concerns the use of reasonable force, force that’s in proportion to the threat someone perceives they are under,” said the Minister.
“The level of force would depend on the individual circumstances. It’s not a license to kill anyone.”
The change in law follows major national debate in the case of traveller John Ward, who was shot dead while trespassing on the Mayo property of farmer Padraig Nally in October 2004.
Convicted of manslaughter, Nally was sentenced to six years in jail, but his conviction was overturned on appeal after the court accepted he had not been permitted to use self-defense as an argument at his trial.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.jimmy12003 | Feb 08, 2012, 06:47 PM EST
havnt been back on here for a while, and what do you know, sean still talking sh-it! and ciara, i dont really care where you stick that rag on a stick! whatever you are into!
ciaradexy | Feb 01, 2012, 11:33 AM EST
Jimmy 'I wash ma self with a rag on a stick' 12003.
seanomelbourne | Jan 18, 2012, 05:48 PM EST
If prisoner 12003 would read my previous post he would know how stupid is his last post,Poor jimmy foul mouth.
jimmy12003 | Jan 18, 2012, 04:43 PM EST
mamaginnty! who you calling a twit! read your own post again, you fuc-king tool! in not so many words, you said you would do the same! and as for that wan-ker seanomelbourne! moron yea? melbourne is the place for you! your the sort of clown that would surports the rights of the poor intruders! tos-ser!
jrobich | Jan 18, 2012, 12:10 PM EST
Wait -- "protect the right to life of intruders"??? They gave up that right when they became intruders -- sorry, the homeowner's "right to life" takes precedence!
seanomelbourne | Jan 17, 2012, 07:05 PM EST
Jimmy is 12003 your jail number for that's where you belong you moron.
aloistmartin | Jan 17, 2012, 06:20 PM EST
And Nerves that never flinched at Protestant Carnage; Scream for Bloody Murder at being Short Changed at Burger King ?
mamaginnty | Jan 17, 2012, 04:15 PM EST
Jimmy12003, who are you actually talking about you twit, with that mouth a lot of decent people would not let you near their property line.
jimmy12003 | Jan 17, 2012, 03:04 PM EST
about time we got the right to shoot knac-kers and co-ons! if they had brought this in about 20 years ago, there would be alot less knac-kers pi-ssing about! i hold a firearm legally, and i can tell you right here and now that if some nogood co-on or knac-ker as much as comes inside my property line without invite! there will be no saving him! it would save the taxpayer having to pay out benifits to one less cu-nt!
merefalow | Jan 17, 2012, 01:22 PM EST
good law,don,t break into peoples homes to rob,and in some cases kill.you wont get killed.
Pittsburghkid | Jan 16, 2012, 03:58 PM EST
The law is good, because most people won't shoot without cause. They rather the intruder leave. First of all, blood is messy and hard to clean up, next comes the Para-Medics, the police, and finally the lawyer. It is much easier to let the bastard go.
durtymurphy | Jan 16, 2012, 12:43 PM EST
The 60's are over. John Lennon said "Peace is now - if you want it" We all tried the love and peace practice and had all the terrific talent to back it up, Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, the Guthries, in fact pretty much the whole musical scene everywhere, Not anymore. We live in times where you can get your head stove in, for a cell phone, ( I guess the perp needs it to call someone they love) We are in the era now of self preservation. self defense, police have become para-militarized, with an, us against them attitude, why do we need a SWAT team in Beverly Hills, or Simi Valley (where all the cops live) The Bellamy Brothers, Old Hippie, is my anthem now, we are still old hippies, but, old hippies with guns, (to help protect our cabbage patch)
antoman | Jan 16, 2012, 11:56 AM EST
Set up traps at home like those in the Road Runner cartoon and lure the thief or thieves in. Great craic huh?
mamaginnty | Jan 16, 2012, 11:47 AM EST
Almost all farmers in Ireland have guns...and have had them for decades. shotguns and rifles, I have one myself, but I do not think people are rushing out to buy, it will be a good deterrent to the robber now, thinking he might get shot ( legally )They tried to bring in a law a couple of years ago where we had to get a steel cabinet and keep the shotgun locked up, but it fell through, we need the gun near hand to shoot at marauding dogs killing sheep etc. So guns have been legally held here for as long as I can remember. As for jamthecat saying it happens very very rarely...wrong. Quite a few elderly people in country area's have been beaten almost to death or scared wittless. Nally had been broken into a few times and beaten as well, I cannot blame the man for finally losing it. Now I can push that gun into someone's face and say get to hell or I pull the trigger, but I do not want to see a law brought in to allow handguns.
faberm1 | Jan 16, 2012, 08:15 AM EST
IrelandNorth, I don't know if your question was directed towards me, but I will answer. In Texas the law applies whether you own the property or whether you are a tenant. However, we have an underlying jurisprudential requirement of "necessary force". in other words, you can't kill a blind man wandering up your front walk and coming into your home accidently if a reasonably prudent person could have known or should have known no high degree of danger existed. However, what these new laws do is shift the presumption towards the home dweller. They essentially say, if you're in your home minding your own business (especially at night) and someone wanders in unannounced and uninvited, the "presumption" will be that they are there to commit acts of violence on the home dweller. That has been the norm in these days of increased violence and crime. (burglars were suing homeowners and winning, and the law had to be reversed to stop the crazy outcomes of those suits.) Incidentally, we too had courts of law and justice (we called it equity) here in the USA and they were merged. Your justice courts are there to overcome crazy outcomes that the law requires and are there just for the purpose you voice (referencing the dangers of the situations faced.)
IrelandNorth | Jan 16, 2012, 05:23 AM EST
Do you have to own the home to shoot the intruder, or can you also be a householder? And can you shoot to kill, or can you only injure them? Trouble with Courts of Law (which are not the same as Courts of Justice), is that they determine guilt or innocence without seeming reference to the dangers of the situations faced.
faberm1 | Jan 15, 2012, 10:48 PM EST
This is a very good step for Ireland. It is a move away from European confiscation of personal liberty and a move toward personal property rights and personal freedom. I laud Ireland for a move towards liberty. We have very few home burglaries here in Central Texas. Intruders know if they prey on innocent people in their homes they risk losing their lives.
badolan | Jan 15, 2012, 10:26 PM EST
I just got back from our ranch where my wife and I shot about 500 rounds this weekend. Snow kind of put a crimp in things. I shot a shotgun, various pistols and my AK47. It appears that most folks that are anti-gun never used one however, they are always experts on the subject. Kind of like the book burners. If you don't want to defend yourself, don't. Good luck with that. However, if you do want to defend yourself, you should have the legal right and an effective method to do so. Don't take that right from others just because you don't what to protect yourself or your family. In any case, I don't know a better way to protect yourself if are multiple intruders than a gun. Additionally, I saw some comment about a shot gun.I shot mine about 50 rounds this weekend. Just breaking a new Remington 870. There seems to be a misconception that you just have to shoot a shotgun in the general direction and you'll hit the target. This just isn't true. Shotguns have to be aimed. They are also longer than a pistol and therefore more unwieldy. A shotgun would be my second or third choice for a defensive firearm. Also, if you have a gun, then you had better maintain it and practice with it. An emergency is no time to learn the weapon's battery of arms. Shooting someone would be the last thing I want but I'd do it if forced to - and only if forced to. This isn't about bravado. It's about survival and only for survival. Property, I can replace.
noeldoyle | Jan 15, 2012, 09:58 PM EST
John Ward was not shot for trespassing,but for robbing and intimidating Padraig Nally over a period of time. The man was terrified, living in an isolated area. A perfect scene for Ward to bully and intimidate his victims. By the way, we have not heard of Wards' other victims, which I am sure are many. This was not a first offence for JOHN WARD!!!!!!!!!! PS. His son was very loyal - He drove away!
irishpjk | Jan 15, 2012, 09:01 PM EST
That's a good sign, it has always been my intent.
Belfastborn | Jan 15, 2012, 08:52 PM EST
Come into my home uninvited I will kill you.END OF STORY.WHAT IS THE PROBLEM.DO NOT COME INTO MY HOME.
jamthecat | Jan 15, 2012, 05:34 PM EST
Yes, JohnE67, it is better to kill a family member than to not be able to deal with a situation that happens very very rarely and usually occurs in a way that you don't have a chance to get to your pistol, anyway. Besides, far more often break-ins happen when you're not at home so the thieves take not only money, jewelry and electronic equipment, they also take your legally registered pistol to use in other crimes. Yes, totally brilliant thought processes at work on your part.
seanomelbourne | Jan 15, 2012, 04:35 PM EST
The right to protect your family and home is paramount,unfotunately like most laws this law will also be abused by some people.
JohnE67 | Jan 15, 2012, 03:29 PM EST
If it comes down to my family or the life of someone breaking in to our home, intending to do harm to us or deprive us of what is ours via hard, honest labour, guess who will lose? I applaud this decision. Now, if Aunt Mary is silly enough to come in un-announced, rattle about in the kichen, and she gets wacked, I see Darwin at work...
Pittsburghkid | Jan 15, 2012, 03:26 PM EST
If you have to retreat from an intruder, then who owns your home, the intruder or you. This law makes sense. Of course Communist will be against this law, because Communist do not believe in private property. If Communist have their way, everyone will be living in homeless shelters, and you cot won't even be your own.
jamthecat | Jan 15, 2012, 03:09 PM EST
Great, now more family members can be accidentally shot by half-asleep nitwits with pistols because they were trying to sneak in without waking anyone. That's how it works in the US; why not the rest of the world? Stupidity is obvious contagious.
NiGhabhainn | Jan 15, 2012, 02:57 PM EST
PS.By saying "Thank God for This" i meant the fact that we can not carry firearms. If ever that law were passed in Ireland, Im afraid I'd move my clann to a more civil society! We couldnt be trusted with guns lol!
BARNEYKX | Jan 15, 2012, 02:52 PM EST
FEENELY BETTER KEEP HIS HEAD DOWN
NiGhabhainn | Jan 15, 2012, 02:50 PM EST
What a load of Rubbish!!!! We don't legally carry firearms in this country. We are still a nation that is open to unexpected visitors, ie.Aunty Mary coming through the back door to put the kettle on for a cuppa! If somebody enters a home, most likely they dont carry a gun so we have more chance of defending ourselves with whatever needs necessary (excluding guns of course). I for one say "Thank God for this". :-)
BARNEYKX | Jan 15, 2012, 02:50 PM EST
PROPERTY DEVELOPERS AND SENATERS
BARNEYKX | Jan 15, 2012, 02:49 PM EST
DOS THIS LAW INCLUDE POLITITIONS
Renee750il | Jan 15, 2012, 02:44 PM EST
Wait . . . "Kelly said: “These are lax proposals, which contain insufficiently robust legal safeguards to protect the right to life of householders or intruders." WTH? Why does an intruder have rights? As soon as someone steps over your rightful demesne without leave they have abrogated their rights. What an English sort of notion -- the right to come in an take what isn't yours, to harm, and punish someone for defending themselves.
Murph46 | Jan 15, 2012, 02:40 PM EST
Dan it is not being portrayed as a panacea-would you rather read an intruder his rights ,or defend your family?Case closed.
Murph46 | Jan 15, 2012, 02:24 PM EST
If you don't want to get killed don't enter my home uninvited. In entering a home your rights are effectively lost. Welcome to the real world.
DanOLoingsigh | Jan 15, 2012, 02:14 PM EST
John ‘Frog’ Ward was NOT shot dead while trespassing in the property. He was shot, but was able to escape to the adjacent roadway. He was retreating down the road when he was again shot, in the back, and killed. It was argued that as he was no longer a threat, he was in fact executed. As a traveller with a long criminal record, there was little sympathy for him in the area. There are a number of uncomfortable ‘what ifs’ to think about with this policy. What if the ‘intruder’ was a plain-clothed cop, and the ‘householder’ was a major drug dealer, can he use this ruling as a defence? Kenneth Noye did use just such a defence in the UK, and was acquitted of killing a cop. Not the panacea it’s being portrayed as, imo…
walter3ca | Jan 15, 2012, 12:07 PM EST
Suppose that it is a license to kill. So what? The hard part is finding the gun to do it.
biggles008 | Jan 15, 2012, 11:49 AM EST
If someone breaks into a persons home while they are asleep, how many people would want them back on the street again. I wouldn't.
AmericanGirl83 | Jan 15, 2012, 11:25 AM EST
Here in America, This law was passed in Florida. It is a good thing, because the crime rate here is out of control and the citizens have no choice but to shoot to defend their own. Law enforcement can't keep up. Not sure how it is in Ireland, but if it is anything like America, I am glad the law was passed.
seagreen | Jan 15, 2012, 11:17 AM EST
Handguns are without question a serious problem in urban areas, especially with all elements that want them, however in the rural areas of the US I.E northern New England, Dakotas,Montana. It is the only protection from the juiceheads, and criminals looking for someone to rob while they are en route to wherever they are going. Un like Ireland, in areas like I mentioned a crime could go unnoticed for a week, and only be discovered because people did not show up at a function or store. When your nearest neighbor is a mile away,You are a set up for criminals, that is unless they are afraid of being shot !!
markincorsicana | Jan 15, 2012, 11:05 AM EST
about 800 years too late. éirígí
dipsydolly | Jan 15, 2012, 10:40 AM EST
as anto man says, we are not allowed to have guns, and in relation to article 2, someone should tell the social welfare that starving people to death by witholding their allowances is a breach of article 2. best way to kill/disable a person in hand combat is a hard kick/punch to the adams apple,. just so you know.
OleSarge | Jan 15, 2012, 10:34 AM EST
Glad to see common sense starting to regain a foot hold in Europe. What better birth place than Ireland. You break into my house with the intent to rob or do bodily harm, you just threw away any rights to consideration on my part. I suggest going for center chest mass.
antoman | Jan 15, 2012, 10:17 AM EST
Most of us don't have guns and the law took our swords and knifes too. With what do we defend the family and property with? Empty stout bottles?
Murph46 | Jan 15, 2012, 10:06 AM EST
Cokelly would you rather defend your home with a gun or read the intruder his rights at the time of break in?
donal1951 | Jan 15, 2012, 10:00 AM EST
This new Irish law is similar to that in many U.S. states nicknamed "The Castle Doctrine" after the old saying, "A man (or woman's) home is their castle." In the United States, where guns are easier to buy legally than in Ireland, the bill has been effective in reducing, albeit not eliminating, home invasions.
colkelley | Jan 15, 2012, 09:48 AM EST
“The law encourages people to use lethal force to defend their property and is at odds with Article 2 (right to life) of the European Convention on Human Rights which obliges the state to ensure that lethal force can only be used if absolutely necessary and strictly proportionate in all the circumstances.” So that mans you have to take the time to ask the intruder what weapon they are carrying (so you can go get the same weapon), and then ask them how they intend to use their weapon (so you know not to exceed the level of threat the intruder meant to use). Pure useless garbage that places the "rights" of the criminal above those of the intended victim.
JimmieM | Jan 15, 2012, 09:43 AM EST
Well maybe not perfect?....but better than having to wait until the intruder kills one of your children...and all the intruder has to do to avoid this...is not to intrude? not much to ask
biddyerly | Jan 15, 2012, 09:43 AM EST
I think it's about time, that the people can defend themselves from the horror and destruction, the thieves, tugs, burglars leave. Breaking into a home is a violation of your privacy, and your rights.People live in fear and terror every day, they are afraid to leave their homes, because of these tugs. You should be able to defend your home and property. I know several family members who had their homes broken into and everything ransacked, destroyed and stolen, even the baby's crib mattress shredded to pieces. Maybe this will put a stop to these tugs!
donnaboughner | Jan 15, 2012, 09:34 AM EST
Sounds like a good idea to me. Being from the states with all of the homes invasions and theft going on.... I feel that if more people had guns, the thieves would think twice before robbing. People with bad intentions don't care about personal property or even think twice about trespassing...it is a shame. If there was a chance that the theft would be shot, then maybe they would think twice about going on others property. And yes if you are wondering.....I have a lifetime gun permit. I think that everyone should know how to use them, know how to protect themselves, and protect their family or property.
LoyalCitizen | Jan 15, 2012, 09:29 AM EST
This could mean that the drug dealers entice somebody to their home and kill them on the pretence they were breaking in..........Great care will still have to be taken.