31 Comments

• eiriamach | Oct 14, 2011, 04:04 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette, finally there is an indictment of a RC bishop in the US for protecting a priest who took lewd photographs of young girls. Today Bishop Finn of Kansas City was indicted on a charge that is only a misdemeanor, but it is the first indictment of a bishop for covering up abuse in the 25-year-long abuse scandal. Three years ago, the Bishop paid out $10 million in Church money to settle 47 child abuse cases against the diocese. At that time he agreed to safeguards, including reporting any priest suspected of abuse, but he withheld information from the lay committee set up to advise on sexual abuse cases. He knew as early as 2006 that Fr. Shawn Ratigan was processing lewd images on his computer, and he also ignored recent allegations from reliable sources against the priest. Bishop Finn, who is affiliated with Opus Dei, has enacted an ultra-conservative agenda since 2005 in Kansas City. This case is simply more evidence that the charter adopted by the USCCB to deal with sexual abuse of children was never intended for anything other than PR.

• eiriamach | Oct 10, 2011, 11:39 AM EDT

  JuneAnnette, if ever I think about returning to the bosom of an unreformed RCC in my lifetime, the memory of the hypocrisy and bigotries of the Catholics I've known, both public and private, would deter me. (That profound sense of alienation is something we might understand about the victims of the sexual abuses.) The psalms are my favorite scripture. Christians sometimes forget the sense of the ancient Hebrews that we are all in it together and that each has a role to play and that without the role that each contributes, Creation suffers. The psalmist had a clear sense of redemption in simply turning to God and bringing the entire community with him in spirit: "This is the generation of those whose hearts are turned to you, even to your face, O God of Jacob" (Ps 24:6). And he found a common theme in his lengthy illness and in his enemies' assaults: "One deep calls to another in the noise of your cataracts; all your rapids and floods have gone over me" (42:9). I think that the sinister tone of the threat you received is a recourse of desperate people who expect some magical power to carry out their threats for them. They know only "power" as a weapon against anyone who points out the crumbling "authority" in their lives, and they hope to conjure that authority back to life in words. Some of the comments on IC thus remind me of the black masses of the Middle Ages, a kind of invocation of "miracle, mystery, and authority," to use Dostoyevsky's phrase. When I think of it that way, I realize that the conjuring up is the clearest proof of their powerlessness. The psalmist mentions his "enemies" 104 times, and while he suffered occasional defeat, but no enemy ever overpowered him.

• JuneAnnette | Oct 09, 2011, 02:24 PM EDT

  eiriamach . . continued . . In the depth of my soul, I experienced afresh the very real comfort of the Scriptures that God said would be the portion of those who trust in HIM. (SEE Rom. 15:4)***“Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort: Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.” (II Cor. 1:3-4)***I say “afresh” because in the trial of a protracted illness and frail health to which I have been subject for many years now, His Word continues to be an ongoing source of strength and comfort to me. Many a time He has visited me on my “bed of sickness” and “strengthened me on my bed of languishing.”(Ps. 41:3)***So you see eiriamach, though I prefer to leave this present world as a result of natural causes, rather than foul play, I KNOW as well that in these solemn matters, the LORD is sovereign. Like Paul along with all those who trust in the LORD implicitly . . I can confidently affirm . . “whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.” (Rom. 14:8b) I would commend the Scriptures to all who may be reading this, and a good place to start are the Psalms of David.***“Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name.” (Ps. 63:4)

• JuneAnnette | Oct 09, 2011, 02:21 PM EDT

  eiriamach, It has been 24 days since I received that threatening e-mail and I would like to share a few final thoughts with respect to this solemn matter. I confess upon opening the e-mail and reading the contents I was somewhat startled and shaken at the sinister tone of the message. Shortly after the initial shock had worn off and I had composed myself, the following words of the psalmist came very quickly into my mind “My times are in thy hand.” taken from 31st Psalm, verses 13-15:***“For I have heard the slander of many: fear was on every side: while they took counsel together against me, they devised to take away my life. But I trusted in thee, O LORD: I said, Thou art my God. My times are in thy hand: deliver me from the hand of mine enemies, and from them that persecute me.” And again . . “What time I am afraid, I will trust in thee. In God I will praise his word, in God I have put my trust: I will not fear what flesh can do unto me.” (Ps. 56:3-4) ***Many other similar passages came into my mind and flooded my soul as the day progressed. As I meditated upon them, a great sense of calm and peace came into my soul, and soon my fears were quickly silenced and my anxieties allayed, much like when Christ rebuked the sea and the wind with those blessed words . . "Peace, be still." (Mark 4:39)

• eiriamach | Oct 08, 2011, 09:37 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette, I'm sorry to hear that you received a threat. Don't throw it away, just in case it's connected with others. I know who the people are who've sent me the emails. Trad Catholic conservatives, a closed-in group that does not tolerate people as different as me. (I left the groups long ago, but the emails continued.) These people do not stop; there's a sick element in their blocking/censoring me in social networking groups while sending me dozens of emails. Some comments made by 2Bornot2B were similar to, and his tone the same as, the harassing emails: "all the rabid ex-Caths who join the crowd of haters and sensationalist headline seekers to stone the institution, should wisely STFU!" But mainly, it was 2Bor's tailing me (and you) on IC, and complaining that it was difficult to keep up, that aroused my suspicion, as when he wrote, "As you know, I do have a rather busy life, as opposed to you, who obviously receive some sort of IV solution while tethered to the IC blogs," as though we're supposed to make it easy for him to find our postings and snipe! ("Bishop McGee did Vatican bidding..."). That's the same MO the email harasser boasts of, about monitoring my Internet postings and claiming that 100's of people are laughing at them. I guess the pain caused by reports of the continuing sex abuse cover-ups has driven some Catholics over the edge. Their Church has lost its authority, so they revert to adolescent tyrannies to fill the gap where the all-powerful church once was. They need a Post-Traumatic-Shock-Syndrome support group.

• JuneAnnette | Oct 08, 2011, 12:10 PM EDT

  eiramach, by way of a postscript . . today I re-visited the comments made in connection with the 9/4/2011 IC article entitled 'Disgraceful cover-up by Vatican continues on Irish child abuse---Irish prime minister has absolutely nothing to apologize for' and noted there was an exchange made between you and 2BorNot2B that followed my rather lengthly one with 'edmicca'. I was especially struck by your comment: “My email holds evidence of repeated attempts to silence me, not only from the psychopath male lead assailant, but also from helpers who think they're safe themselves as long as they abet his attacks-- with insults of the type 2Bor slings here and invitations to digital virus attacks and going on two years' worth of criminal-level harassment.” I thought you would want to know that I too received a threatening e-mail on 9/15/2011, no doubt intended to intimidate me into silence as well. A most disturbing development. Needless to say, I have reported it to the proper authorities. How the individual obtained my personal e-mail is yet a mystery to me? ?

• JuneAnnette | Oct 08, 2011, 11:43 AM EDT

  eiriamach, Thank you so much for re-posting the comment below, and though it is one of great substance and relevance, it is not the one I had in mind. In the comment itself, you say, and I paraphrase . . "an institution that cannot be criticized . . " . . I will continue to attempt to locate it.

• eiriamach | Oct 07, 2011, 02:14 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette, there was a lengthy back-and-forth discussion with Jacers, you, and me at "Pope planning radical changes to Irish Catholic Church." It continued, I think, from August 14 until Jacers added many long posts in mid- September, and I and supersurvivor added one each after that. I wrote about Vatican II, supporting what you wrote quoting Fr. Doyle, and Jacers wrote about women priests! Excerpt: It's a pity that you see an invitation to discussion or debate as an attack, Jacers. You have not addressed the issue; instead you've used ad hominem arguments against JuneAnnette. I conclude that you are content to be a subject of absolute papal power, are not a friend to democratic governance, remain hostile to non-Roman Christians, and prefer not to do your own thinking on any matter having to do with church governance, morality, or the life of the spirit. I hope you can come to grips with the coming upheaval, for it is indeed coming. Back in the 1920s, one of my favorite authors described the kind of degeneration and transformation in religion that we are witnessing in Ireland now: "There is a time of maturing, when the true element of the human spirit, suppressed and buried, comes to hidden readiness so urgent and so tense that it awaits only a touch from Him who touches in order to burst forth. The revelation that then makes its appearance seizes in the totality of its constitution the whole elemental stuff that is thus prepared, melts it down, and produces in it a form that is a new form of God in the world." It would be good to be ready for this process and at least not to get in the way of it and maybe even to help welcome it as it unfolds, however chaotic and rebellious it might seem at present.

• JuneAnnette | Oct 07, 2011, 12:07 PM EDT

  eiriamach, I have examined your comments made in connection with the IC news items you cited below and unfortunately I was unsuccessful in locating it. I also did multiple searches in the site search engine and that proved unfruitful as well. In the comment I am specifically looking for, you address the one with whom I have been engaging (a consistent IC adversary of mine, i.e. jacersagain, 2BorNot2B, edmicca?) and diagnose him with a malady, which you . . in so many words refer to as institutional loyalty . . a condition which you indicate prevents him from subjecting the Roman Catholic institution (which is in view) to objective criticism. eiriamach, I will continue to look and should I encounter you at another forum, I will post it for the benefit of others, as I am certain the healthy critique of the Roman Catholic institution will most certainly persist!

• eiriamach | Oct 06, 2011, 03:54 PM EDT

  JuneAnnette, there've been so many! I do not know which one you have in mind, so here's a short, incomplete list. If you recognize the topic, put the title in the search box near the IC logo at top of the page and you'll find it: There's some discussion of canon law and the institution at "War of Words Between Vatican and Irish Government Continues, Sept 6; some discussion of RCC as monarchy vs church institutions open to change at "Irish leader hits back at Pope in wake of criticism from Rome, Sept 4; there's some discussion of the (im)possibility of institutional change at "Irish victims critical of new Vatican guidelines on child abuse," May 17; some discussion of institutional religion vs ancient celtic spirituality at "Dublin archbishop says Irish Catholic Church is on the brink of collapse," Feb 24; I wrote about canon law at "Vatican: Taoiseach, Taniste criticisms 'unfounded,'" Sept 4. Some other discussions along these lines: "Pope planning radical changes..." Aug 14; "Irish govt stands by comments on Vatican interference in abuse," Sept 9, and "Dublin Archbishop says Vatican cabal protects clerical abusers..." Sept. 4. This has been a humbling search; I realize I should write less!

• eiriamach | Oct 06, 2011, 03:00 PM EDT

  More, sirpeter: love, hatred, and indifference-- I've been there. I know all of them well (don't we all?). The absolute worst, the most deadening, vacuous, and soul-killing is indifference.

• eiriamach | Oct 06, 2011, 02:55 PM EDT

  sirpeter, it's much simpler for me than for you, apparently. I'm never going to be a wealthy person. So I seek other ways to enrich my life, ways that do not require money. The life of the mind is one way, and I'm in the right profession for it. The life of the spirit is another, and it is a fascinating journey that opens up all kinds of meaning and relationships (and Irish history and culture) that I would be blind to without it. It's been many many years (since Vatican II) since the Catholic Church in the 'states paid any attention at all to the life of the spirit, as far as I can see. Plenty of attention to "pay, pray, and obey," as the Irish say, yes, but no help at all in understanding how to leave this world a little kinder and more humane than when we entered it. That's the work of the spirit, it's worth doing, and it gives meaning to life. People whose vocation it is to assist those who wish to live the life of the spirit seem more interested in power and security and sexual license and . . . well, you know what's been in the news the last decade or so. Part of sharing "meaning" is pointing out where the professional "life of the spirit" guys-- priests, for example, have failed and erred and disappointed and enraged people who had a right to depend upon them for help. I don't agree with you that arguing against RCC positions empowers the clergy, unless, of course, I'm the only one doing it. So I'd like to hear from others: is anyone else working on getting the "professionals" to pay attention to what they should pay attention to, rather than focusing on defending themselves from lawsuits and such?

• sirpeter | Oct 05, 2011, 10:45 PM EDT

  @eiriamach.Do you know what the opposite of love is?Most people say hate.But it isn't.It's indifference.I don't talk much about religion because I am really indifferent about it.Let me educate ye a little bit.The only time the clergy has to worry is when people stop argueing about religion.It's called self-brainwashing and your inner desire to make sense of it all will break ye down until you uphold the belief in some fairy story anyway of some religion.Even your arguments are spreading and empowering the clergy.Those who are passionate about getting justice or whatever!! and argueing about the church are the very people who are supporting the churches by spreading the brainwashing.That's free education.I won't even charge ye for it.I'm bored already.

• JuneAnnette | Oct 05, 2011, 08:02 PM EDT

  barneyjo, as a former Roman Catholic, I can very personally emphathize with you. I did not leave Roman Catholicism without much thoughtful and prayerful consideration. Richard Bennett, former RC priest speaks of his own struggle in this regard in his personal testimony: 'From Tradition to Truth', which you can read at his website . . Berean Beacon. The burden and sole objective of his ministry, Berean Beacon, is to lead men and women into a personal relationship with the Lord by directing them into the Scriptures of TRUTH. All of the articles written by Mr. Bennett are underpinned by biblical truth. His well-researched and insightful articles are truly a labour of love, which reflect his heartfelt desire to reach Roman Catholics particularly with the glorious gospel of free and sovereign grace of our Lord & Saviour Jesus Christ that they too might be saved. His studied examination of Roman Catholic doctrines / traditions, as they are set forth in official Roman Catholic documents in the light of SCRIPTURE is an invaluable resource for Catholics to thoughtfully and prayerfully consider. His firsthand knowledge of the inner workings of the RCC drawn from his 22 years as a Roman Catholic priest uniquely qualifies him for this challenging work. More importantly, Mr. Bennett's own conversion experience recounted in his article: 'From Tradition to Truth' uniquely qualifies him to communicate those things which he himself was taught by the Holy Spirit through his personal study of God's Word.

• barneyjo | Oct 05, 2011, 04:34 PM EDT

  @JuneAnnette - While I am grateful for your posts, I can assure you that I am taking the trouble to inform myself about the litany of dishonesty, deceit and disaster inflicted by the Catholic Church on its own Church Body. I am well aware that awareness of this issue goes back over 1000 (one thousand) years when it was first documented by the Magesterium. You must understand, this is my church, the faith in which I was raised. I will not abandon it to the fate of those who are morally bankrupt and unsuited to lead it. And besides, scripture also tells me that I should not "dishonour my fathers house" I would surely be doing that if I were to leave my church. I cannot and I will not without doing what I can to fight for its soul. And while I am most grateful for your insights, dissertion for me is NOT an option.......not yet at least!!

• JuneAnnette | Oct 05, 2011, 02:14 PM EDT

  barneyjo . . McNamara31 . . Patrick Wall's credentials: Patrick Wall, a world-renowned expert on the Catholic Clergy Abuse Crisis, has been working on behalf of victims of clergy sexual abuse since 2002. A former Roman Catholic Priest and Benedictine Monk, Wall has a bachelor’s degree in philosophy and a master’s of divinity degree from Saint John’s University in Minnesota. Wall has also pursued graduate studies at the University of Minnesota, the Gregorian University and Cardiff University in Canon Law. While a practicing priest in Minnesota, Wall served as a faculty resident, member of the seminary sexual abuse response team, associate pastor, parochial administrator, defender of the bond, advocate, tribunal judge, high school instructor, member of the archdiocesan finance council, and member of the canon law society of america. In these capacities, he became intimately familiar with the day-to-day operations of a parish, tribunal, religious order, and archdiocese. After working as a “fixer” in the church, dealing with the aftermath of sexual abusive priests in parishes and schools, Wall left the priesthood, finding that the only way that abuse survivors would get the help and healing they needed was outside of the church hierarchy.

• JuneAnnette | Oct 05, 2011, 02:13 PM EDT

  barneyjo . . McNamara31 . . by way of postscript . . **Quote: Patrick Wall: “There has been more than a decade of intense focus on abuse by priests across the United States and Western Europe, plus lawsuits, investigations, and Vatican statements, including instructions to bishops around the world just last month to come up with an abuse policy.And even so, Wall says, priests are still abusing children."I'm working on stuff that happened in the summer of 2010," he says. "It's the same old sodomy."***Source: CNN / Article: Onetime priest crusades for abuse victims suing Catholic Church / June 19, 2011***JuneAnnette, a Christian by God's grace & a former Roman Catholic by tradition

• JuneAnnette | Oct 05, 2011, 02:12 PM EDT

  barneyjo . . McNamara31 . . The abuse of children . . paedophilia . . is not a new phenomenon in the Roman Catholic “church” as Patrick J. Wall, a world-renowned expert on the Catholic Clergy Abuse Crisis has attested. A statement by Mr. Wall accompanied the recent historic charges made by SNAP, in partnership with the Center for Constitutional Rights, and filed with the International Criminal Court (ICC) prosecutor, to investigate high-level Catholic Church officials for crimes against humanity in late September. His expert testimony traces the paedophilia plague of Roman Catholic clergy abuse through the centuries and the secret manner in which these matters were handled internally within the church to avoid SCANDAL. Though kept hidden all this time from the Roman Catholic “faithful” and the public at large, wonderfully and providentially the Lord has brought these abominations to light in our day!***“For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; nor hid, that shall not be known.” (Luke 12:2)***GOOGLE: Patrick J. Wall My Expert Declaration for Snaps ICC Complaint / September 30, 2011

• barneyjo | Oct 04, 2011, 07:27 PM EDT

  @McNamara31 - The more I have read and understood about the causes and course of this crisis throughout the history of the Catholic Church thru the ages, the more convinced I become that it is Christ who has laid bare the Church to the scrutiny it is currently under. Those who seek to defend the stance of the church in Ireland and elsewhere, or who attempt to explain away the failings in relation o the treatment of abusers and survivors of abuse, can only do so to a certain degree. The one thing that they can never hope to explain away is the total absence of Christ's love in many cases in their care for the survivors of abuse by clerical predators. And its not as if Christ himself when he was present in this world, did not spell out clearly the consequences for any one who would harm a child. "better to have a millstone around your neck and be cast into the sea" thats pretty definite. For me, the watershed came in 1975 when a priest called Sean Brady was privy to the enforced swearing of two victims of Brendan Smyth, one of Irelands worst pedophile priests, to silence upon pain of damnation of their souls. Where was christ in that action? Where was the love that he spoke of in that action? I am still a practicing though struggling catholic even now. However I now have a yardstick against which I measure my own behaviour, and the behaviour of my church; and that is, where is christ to be found? No more blind obedience; its bad for the soul!!

• McNamara31 | Oct 04, 2011, 07:12 PM EDT

  barneyjo... I agree. As people truly study the cases of abuse (within the CC) worldwide, the facts are hard at first to comprehend. Then one realizes as you stated that they (RCC) themselves alone have brought this on themselves, the victims and the good priests by choosing corporate answers instead of Christ like answers. The damage to this generation is irreversible and I think hope will only return to this church when Benedict is no longer pope.

• barneyjo | Oct 04, 2011, 06:46 PM EDT

  The Catholic Church in Ireland is largely responsible itself for for its relegation to patent, partial obscurity for one simple reason; many priests and bishops, past and present turned their backs and set their faces against following the "Greatest Commandment" "Love one and other as I have loved you" was the commandment we were given. In reading the plethora of reports into clerical abuse in Ireland as I have done, the evidence is clear that so many clerics abandoned that commandment for reasons of expediency. Sean Brady swearing child victims of Brendan Smyth to silence. John Magee lying about the implementation of child protection policies. Diocesan offices providing employment references to secularised priests to help them get jobs outside the church and witholding their knowledge of their capacity to offend further by ruining even more lives. "Love one and other as I have loved you" was the commandment. In large measure, the church has failed in this as the body of christ on earth, and it is now being called to account - and rightly so!!

• Collette2 | Oct 04, 2011, 02:44 PM EDT

  eiriamach, youv'e said it all for me too. Natural law, past and present is the Doctrine of the Church. That's why there's so many illegitimate children on and off their books world wide.

• eiriamach | Oct 04, 2011, 05:12 AM EDT

  "It's a damned fine thing you don't have a say" --You won't win friends for your Church with that line, sirpeter. It's a shameful and alienating truth about the Vatican that it's "not a democracy" and need not listen to anyone, not to a Taoiseach, not to the reformers, not to the people. But you RC triumphalists (the Vatican is a "powerful COUNTRY"??) go further and quite literally demonize the reformers: "Unfortunately [the] devil, through his minions within the law and the homo crowd has ways and means to keep the controversy going." This attitude hearkens back to "burn them at the stake" days! While I'm not generally drawn to extreme views, I'm quickly gaining sympathy for those who'd like to kick the papists out of Ireland altogether. "Demoralizing" indeed! Do you think anyone's listening past that guilt tripping over people dying in hospitals and that conjuring up of the devil-- puerile scare tactics by frightened little boys watching their sand castle wash out with the tide.

• sirpeter | Oct 03, 2011, 08:38 PM EDT

  Ellen.It's a damned fine thing you don't have a say then isn't it?I guess the majority of decent priests who go about their daily business helping people and helping those that need support don't really matter to you.All this trouble has a demoralizing effect on them AND those elderly people who are dying in the hospitals as you type your little self-centered opinion.A rift with any powerful country is NEVER good for Ireland.

• stephen1553 | Oct 03, 2011, 07:57 PM EDT

  Pope Benedict's words to the German Bundestag on his recent visit to his homeland: "In issuing this invitation you are acknowledging the role that the Holy See plays as a partner within the community of peoples and states. end quote We should all look at how the church partnered with RATZIngers homeland during the nazi eraa http://nobeliefs.com/nazis.htm You can find more pix on google pix by looking up various combinations of "Nazis and vatican" Expect a second "anything but" holy inquistion. In the first one the church supported life by burnings at the stake , throwing apostates (think Islam and the death sentence for one who leaves that faith) into pots of boiling oil. a feww large trailer rtrucks full of C4 would solve the problem of the vatican and open up space for a large parking lot. which doesnt have a tendency to mass murder millions.

• ellenfromcork | Oct 03, 2011, 07:16 PM EDT

  A rift with the Vatican would be a damn fine thing for Ireland.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 03, 2011, 05:08 PM EDT

  If it's 'a man-made religion' as you claim supersurv77 then you must admit that whoever the Man was that made it gave it some perdurability. In fact, I bet you, your fellow accusers and whiners, and all those who dream of witnessing its demise will be compost, food for worms and dust, waaaaay before the Rock of Peter ever experiences anything resembling its end. -- Sure it has experienced rough going due to the naiveté and the evil designs of some who let some foul air in during VatII. That, as of some 8-10 years ago has been forcefully addressed, if not entirely ended. Unfortunately devil, through his minions within the law and the homo crowd has ways and means to keep the controversy going... but eventually it will, like you at some point, die a quiet death.

• 2BorNot2B | Oct 03, 2011, 02:30 PM EDT

  What... the Irish government already walking back from its initial truculence against the Vatican??? - Must prove that squabbles among family members are only a storm in a glass of water. -- Yet there are those, like the eerieOne, the 'rainbow flag drama queenie' who succumb to skepticism and despair.. because she frets that her particular biases and self interests, once so promising, are now in danger of not coming to fruition; the promise they once held while the pols made Kabuki theater for the benefit of the unwashed, for the rabid anti-C folks, and for that 'all important' LBGT crowd are suddenly dashed! You know, the Vatican in eerie's view had one foot over the ledge. Independence from the millennial domination of that patriarchal, woman-dissing crowd loomed, almost in the horizon and.. yet, so far! -- Oh the pathos.. the ranting... the rending of garments, the digging up of Ratzi's words to prolong the Popish-scare! And she/he was already making plans to walk through St Peter's Plaza and halls of the Vatican Library in her newly designed rainbow robes... -- Sorry lady, back to the drawing board; can you wait another 1000 years, maybe?

• eiriamach | Oct 03, 2011, 12:27 PM EDT

  Good luck to Minister Gilmore in trying to consign the relationship between Ireland and the Vatican to "diplomatic relations." It may not be as simple as saying it. I quote from Pope Benedict's words to the German Bundestag on his recent visit to his homeland: "In issuing this invitation you are acknowledging the role that the Holy See plays as a partner within the community of peoples and states. Setting out from this international responsibility that I hold, I should like to propose to you some thoughts on the foundations of a free state of law." Are we worried yet? It gets worse. "To serve right and to fight against the dominion of wrong is and remains the fundamental task of the politician," Benedict said, and revealing that he's never bothered to read the US Constitution, he claimed, "In history, systems of law have almost always been based on religion." He expects that this alliance between state and (Catholic) religion will come from a renewed respect for natural law, which "is today viewed as a specifically Catholic doctrine." Watch out for that natural law coming atcha! This Pope's idea of natural law is what I'd call rather "unnatural," what with his defending pedophiles from state prosecutions and all!

• rainbowbrew | Oct 03, 2011, 10:54 AM EDT

  Ah teh politicians try to cover up the case again. let's say everything is the best while in fact you have a problem and the SEE now has you in a place that will let the case die down. Too bad the See will not support the people from whom they take an enormous amount of money from. Why are not they helping with the people instead of hoarding all their money and now asking for more. The church will never change. They have this obession about being "the Church" but chirst would have fired them a long time ago. They are living a lie.

• muirisobric | Oct 03, 2011, 09:42 AM EDT

  There is an enormoulsy high probability that anything emanating from the Government as a truth is the absolute opposite to what is in fact true. And I'm pleased that it's now just "Diplomatic Relations" Not so in the past.