Irish government backs down on confessional bill

This certainly muddies the waters. Its one thing for disclosures made by a criminal in the seal of the confessional to be protected and yet another when the church maintains secrecy regarding crimes against children revealed before an ecclesiastical tribunal, the records of which are stored in the Secret Archives under Catholic Canon 489. I hope this is clarified. The criminals the church as harbored at the expense of children can no longer be shield by the Secret Archives or Catholic Canons. Let us also not forget that Fr. Brendan Smyth used the confessional and used it as a weapon with his victims and their families. The gossip box is not deserving of any constitutional protection for Freedom of Religion under such circumstances, unless the church is claiming its religiion is the business of abusing children. Hum.

Living in Norway, a definitely non-catholic country, I can tell you that pedophilia (child abuse) is not problem of celibacy. The fact is that adults with this tendency is drawn towards positions or jobs which bring them into contact with minors in order to get access in every society. In Norway this is mainly public schools or other institutions and to some extent positions in the Lutheran church. In Ireland where the Catholic Church for historical reasons have played a dominant role in caring for minors, positions in the church and in particular priesthood, will be of interest to these people. There is no higher percentage of abuse among catholic priest than among males in general including married men, on the contrary. Obviously this is not satisfactory at all since the clergy has a particular duty to represent catholic morality, but celibacy is simply not the root of the problem. Recently the municipality of Oslo paid out 80 million euros in compensation to people maltreated (includng abuse) as minors. None of these abusers were catholic priests. We have had protestant priest condemned in tribunal not only for pedophilia, but also incest since these priests are married and have children. What the church can be criticized for is not celibay, but lack of understanding of the problem, concealment and to little transparancy. Hopefully this will improve also in Ireland as a consequence of the scandals. With the bishops now in charge I am convinced and trust that that will be the case.

Maybe if the church let the priests marry much of the future problems would be prevented. We are all sexual beings. Cut of the right to have sex as a youngster and ultimately the forbidden fruit concept will win out in some cases. And any good psychologist will tell you the the perpetrator will most likely pick victims at the age when he was forbidden to be involved in sex. BTW why were 80% of the victims male - because for so long the church only had male alter boys. I'd far rather have a church of good gay priests. surly tehy would be having sex with each other, but thats consensual and adult to adult. Not the rape of children - an expression of arrested desire and abuse of power. Almost identical to prison rape - it has little to do with sex, which is the club, and all to do with power and humiliating the weaker person. Just like the rape of women by men imbued with patriarchial power, taking their desires out on the 'weaker sex'

this is terrible. Imagine what the priests know about abuse by other priests, and kids and adults telling the story, probably in tears. The confessional cloak reminds me of Omerta - the code of silence of the Mafioso. its as simple as that. Either the priests tell the truth abotu what they know or you should throw them in Jail also. The criminals of the vatican have yet to be brought to justice. Not just for the molestation of children, but also google "Vatican bank scandal". It appears the vatican's own bank laundered money for the Marioso, etc. And we should also ask - I have to research this one - why did fascism start not in Germany, but in italy. And why did Machiavelli - the end justifies the means - also come from the home of the vatican? I invite your comments to sjames6621@yahoo.com

Cowardice, it's a man made law put to me not as bluntlty during my formation as a catholic and can be moderated at least, to protect our most vulnerable. Not to mention the shenanigans that can to othr abuses. In the old day's it was a confession before the whole church community, a good deterence.

Father Aidan Troy from Northern Ireland said in the Belfast telegraph that he is ashamed to wear his collar because of the child abuse scandals.If Father Aidan Troy really stands by his claim that he is ashamed to wear his collar because of the litany of scandals. Then why does he not do the right thing and make a stand against the church,resign from it. Let him show the whole world that he is prepared to give up his priesthood for the lack of action from the church in the wake of the child abuse.(or is this just another ploy from the church to take away the focus of child abuse). We survivors of child abuse are fed-up to he teeth with people coming forward from the church,time and again,saying they are fed-up from what's going on in it. If they're really sincere,then they will do what the rest of us,former Rome Catholics did,And that's=come out from among them. Its the only way,for as we've seen time and again,what the church is really like,And you Father Aidan Troy,know this more than most. The church will never listen or co-operate with anyone,they whole-heartily believe they are above mans-laws. They believe,they,and only they speak for God and should not be held accountable to any Government. So we survivors are awaiting your answer=are you going to do the right thing,or are your words just what they are=Words.

@JuneAnnette - many thanks for your fullsome responses. Perhaps I should advise and clarify that most of the cases you quoted occurred within the jusrisdiction of the Republic of Ireland. Of course you rightly identify Brendan Smyth as an offender who attacked children both in the Republic of Ireland and in Northern Ireland where the long promised enquiry into sexual abuse by clerics has yet to commence.

All of us who were abused by the church in Northern Ireland are still awaiting for our government to announce when the inquiry is too be launched,they have now been by to work a week,and we'll be demanding them to take action,we need to know that our government is full of men like the Taoiseach Enda Kenny,men who will not be afraid of the church of Rome,men who will put the abused first,not the abusers.We've waited much too long for the church to be held accountable for actions,or lack of action on this child abuse issue.

The church will never listen or co-operate with anyone,they whole-heartly believe they are above mans-laws.They believe,they,and only they speak for God and should not be held accountable to any Government. We have heard much in the past week from the Catholic Church of the need to maintain the seal of silence of the confessional box. After all the tribunals and the adverse public reaction as a result of their covering up of child abuse, they still don't get it. They seemed to be cocooned from reality and don't realise that, to the vast majority of the public, this is seen as another abrogation of their moral and civic responsibility. Of course it may be argued that it is unlikely that a murderer or paedophile may confess to murder, or abuse of children, to a priest during confession and that the whole debate about the confessional seal is hypothetical. But the response of the Church is to do nothing about these crimes and knowingly let them continue. Breaking the seal of the confessional, or allowing abuse to continue: which is the greater sin? .

barneyjo . .and what of NORTHERN IRELAND?***CONTINUED**Fr Benito* - Fr Benito, a former teacher, is still in ministry in the Archdiocese. A brother and sister complained to gardai in 2001 that they were sexually abused by Benito. / Fr Frank McCarthy - McCarthy used his position as a seminarian to target children's homes which they knew housed vulnerable children. Children were allowed to visit McCarthy's home and go on holiday with him. McCarthy was convicted in 1997 after he pleaded guilty to abusing an orphan and the young victim from Dunlavin. He was given a suspended sentence and was later allowed say mass at a Dublin convent. * denotes pseudonym***As you say barneyjo: "It will be interesting to see if Sinn Fein and its Unionist partners in Government take the enquiry into clericl abuse in Northern Ireland as far (if it ever sees the light of day - which I very much doubt)"

barneyjo . .and what of NORTHERN IRELAND?***CONTINUED**Fr William Carney - Carney, a serial sexual abuser of children, both male and female, was dismissed from the clerical state in 1992. The commission said it was aware of complaints or suspicions of child sexual abuse against him in respect of 32 named individuals. As a teacher he had access to children in residential care, took groups on holiday and went swimming with groups of children. He pleaded guilty to two counts of indecent assault in 1983. The Archdiocese has paid compensation to six of his victims. / Fr Tom Naughton - More than 20 complaints of child sexual abuse have been made against Naughton, according to the commission. He has twice been convicted of child sexual abuse./ Fr Dominic Savio Boland - The Capuchin priest, whose real name is John Boland, is a convicted child sex abuser. He is now living in one of the order's houses in Ireland, with restrictions on his activities and ministry. The first allegation against him was made in 1989, when it was claimed he fondled a 13-year-old boy. The head of the order decided to “look after everything” by getting counselling for the boy and getting a psychiatrist for Boland.

barneyjo . .and what of NORTHERN IRELAND?***CONTINUED** Fr Cicero* - Cicero, who was 63 when he died in 2002, was the chaplain of an inner-city parish. In the mid-1980s he would invite young girls back to his house. He had a personal computer and was an expert programmer. He developed a computer programme that commanded the girls to remove their socks and tops, to kiss each other and to kiss him. Complaints were finally referred to gardai in April 2002, but the priest had died before aninvestigation could take place.Fr Harry Moore - In February 1999, a man complained to gardai that Moore had sexually abused him while he was a priest attached to Bayside parish between 1983 and 1985. Moore, now aged 73, was charged with 18 counts of sexual assault, including buggery, in 2000. The charges were later reduced to four and in July 2004 he pleaded guilty to two charges of buggery and was sentenced to seven years in jail. / Fr Septimus* - Septimus has had restrictions placed on him by the Archdiocese since 1997, so he cannot come into contact with children following a series of complaints of abuse. The commission said it was aware of 17 complaints, mainly related to the beating of boys. A further complaint of a similar nature was received in 1995 and gardai began an investigation. However, the DPP recommended no prosecution.

barneyjo . .and what of NORTHERN IRELAND?***CONTINUED**Fr Noel Reynolds - Reynolds, who died in 2002 aged almost 70, told a diocesan official about his paedophilia in 1996 — after abusing over 20 children since the 1970s — but even the shocking admission did not lead to a thorough Church investigation. The DPP was prepared to prosecute Reynolds, until the priest's solicitor maderepresentations about his deteriorating health. / Fr Ivan Payne - Ivan Payne is a convicted serial child sex abuser who worked as chaplain to Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children in Crumlin. / The commission said it was aware of 31 people who had made allegations against him, 16 of whom say they were abused when he held the position at the hospital./Fr Horatio* - Now retired from ministry, Horatio faced complaints of abusing a 15-year-old boy he met in a gay club in 1980. He admitted the incident to Monsignor Richard Glennon and Bishop Laurence Forristal, but insisted he thought the young boy was 18. Archbishop Diarmuid Martin asked Horatio to step down from his ministry and passed over all information held by the Archdiocese to the gardai.

barneyjo . .and what of NORTHERN IRELAND?***CONTINUED / Fr Edmondus* - Edmondus abused young children between the ages of eight and 11 at Our Lady's Hospital for Sick Children in Crumlin in the late 1950s and early 1960s. The commissioner turned the matter over to the Archbishop John Charles McQuaid. Edmondus was referred to a doctor, but no action was taken to inform hospital authorities. / Fr Patrick Maguire - The 82-year-old Columban Father is a convicted child sex abuser, and has served prison terms in Ireland and the UK. The commission found many complaints were largely ignored or avoided over a period of 20 years. / Fr Donal Gallagher - Alcoholic Gallagher was 58 when he died in 1994. The Vincentian priest served in a Dublin parish between 1975 and 1979 and was a teacher and chaplain to a secondary school. The commission said it was aware of 14 complaints of child sexual abuse against Gallagher, but that it was likely he had abused many more. It found the allegations were not properly investigated and questioned the attitude of a Garda sergeant involved, who believed there was only a slim chance of a successful prosecution.**NOTE: * denotes pseudonym

barneyjo . .and what of NORTHERN IRELAND?***Source: Belfast Telegraph / Article: Priests and their depraved crimes / Friday, 27 November 2009 / EXCERPT: Some 46 priests were dealt with in the Commission of Investigation report. In total, the commission received information about complaints, suspicions or knowledge of child sex abuse in respect of 172 named priests and 11 unnamed priests. However, if all of the cases were to be investigated, it is likely the commission's work would have had to continue for several more years. Of the 46, just 11 have been named. The others have been given pseudonyms to protect their anonymity. Some may face charges in the future, some died before allegations could be fully tested and others were not prosecuted, even though evidence was gathered against them. The following are examples of the cases investigated: Fr James McNamee - McNamee built a swimming pool in his back yard while he was parish priest in Crumlin in the 1970s, so he could fondle young boys. He would get the boys to swim naked and would sit them on his knee for “a chat”. McNamee settled out of court with one victim for £100,000 in the mid-1990s.