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Irish doctor blames rampant child suicide on lack of corporal punishment

Coroner sees the pain that suicide causes families daily in court and wants the stigma to be lifted

CATHY HAYES,

IrishCentral Staff Writer

Published Friday, November 30, 2012, 7:39 AM

Updated Friday, November 30, 2012, 10:41 AM

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Coroner Terrence Casey

Photo by RTE

The coroner for the east and south of County Kerry has said that the end of corporal punishment has a direct correlation to the rise of suicide in Irish society.

Terrence Casey, who is calling for an open debate about suicide in Ireland said he believes a lack of respect for others and authority in Ireland has led to a lack of respect for life.

He told the Irish Examiner, “I think the day we got rid of corporal punishment, was the downfall of a lot of things. The respect for your neighbour’s property has gone out the door, since corporal punishment went out the door.”

He continued, “The lack of respect for your own life might follow that. I might be wrong but that is my own personal feeling.”

He also told the Cork newspaper that he has no regrets about making his comments publically as he feels it is important to make this conversation a public one.

According to Pieta House, 525 people committed suicide during 2011 and in recent months the shocking suicides of Ciara Pugsley, Erin Gallagher, and Lara Burns, young teenage girls who took their lives due to online bullying has brought the topic of suicide into the media spotlight once more.

Read more: Tragic 12-year-old Irish girl sought help from center before death

Casey has launched a poster campaign in association with the voluntary group Be Aware Prevent Suicide. These posters including phone numbers for various help lines will be distributed to pubs, hotels, sports clubs, and any place where people gather socially.

Despite the criticism Casey has received for speaking out, he said, “I felt, when I started speaking about suicide, that someone had to speak about it, because it was hidden, it was swept under the carpet. There’s a stigma attached to it. A stigma that shouldn’t be there any longer, but is.

“Until it comes out in the open, and people are willing to talk about it and discuss it, I don’t think we’re going to get anywhere, it’s going to go downhill. So that’s why I started talking about it, and why a lot of other people are now talking about it."

The coroner has received nasty letters and complaints but he feels that going public with the matter is important. He said, “There was one comment I passed, where I said that if only those who committed suicide could see what I see, the pain and the misery and the suffering left behind, they probably wouldn’t do it.”

He continued, “I’ve learned to live with it, to a certain extent. But what does get to me, is when I’m sitting in my Coroner’s Court, when I see six or seven families all weeping, all blaming themselves, it does get to you. It’s the hardest part of it."

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merefalow | Dec 14, 2012, 11:34 AM EST

i think when you see the complete lack of respect for authority and teachers,by ruse,loutish,belligerent young men,very often towering over their teachers in size and height,threatening intimidating,disruptive to the learning of less disruptive pupils,with no means of controlling them,then yes,i dont see why there is not a good case for punishment and control of these horrible pupils who will grow into horrible people.

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alisaann | Dec 01, 2012, 05:53 PM EST

i'm sorry, but this guy is CRAZY....it would be the other way around...and "corporal punishment" imo is ABUSE....especially used on KIDS. alisa

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Searlit | Dec 01, 2012, 02:25 PM EST

There are many ways that institutions use to try and make robots out of human beings. This doesn't resonate with a persons spirit. Unless teaching is aligned with the greater good it fosters violence and abuse. Children can be made to follow rules by harsh punishment, but the breaking of spirit is dangerous because it damages the ego which protects us from events that the human mind can't handle.

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CharlyAnne | Nov 30, 2012, 10:14 PM EST

Well, I wouldn't blame the whole of Kerry for one doctor's ignorance. Nor would I entrust this doctor with nursing responsibilities. It is pure and simple ignorance to suggest something so negligent. Strongbow sums it up nicely. I appreciate that nicgearailt takes it the step further regarding educating people about basic human functioning and behavior. I think it would be beneficial if Irish Central took it a step further, published a follow-up article on societal influences on child behavior, esp suicide. Depression, substance abuse problems with disruptive or aggressive behaviors (themselves or from others through bullying as was mentioned earlier.) are key concerns in children who express Suicidality. There is also a question re "the suicide brain" ie are some people more prone to suicidality because of a genetic flaw, bc many get depressed but do not consider suicide. I think Irish Central has a broad audience and could do some good here by providing people with more education.

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Strongbow | Nov 30, 2012, 09:17 PM EST

Correlation does not imply causation. Has the scientific method has not made inroads into Kerry.

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Happyhippo | Nov 30, 2012, 04:00 PM EST

I was of the generation in the fifties who went through tough corporal punishment for minor infringements of rules laid down by the Irish christian brothers,some of whom looked like they enjoyed inflicting pain with a 2ft leather strap hidden inside their cassocks,after you got belted we were made to kiss the leather and told the belt was our best friend because it taught us right from wrong,nowadays this would be seen as torture and would incur a prison term,but now many years later,looking back on those days it hasn't really left any scars only some bitter memories that people could be so hard on 10 year old kids,but it did make us ready for the big bad world,which was their aim in the first place,nobody i know from those days ever took suicide as an option.

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Smyrnian | Nov 30, 2012, 02:28 PM EST

he is only half right. If he was a child in the Irish National School system in the 1950s and 1960's it is hard to see how he would ever say such a thing. It was horrendous abuse which destroyed some of my classmates; I saw it. Very sad to this day.

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bunkerisland | Nov 30, 2012, 01:07 PM EST

Tough to comprehend how 12 yo Lara Burns would have benefited from punishment, if that is what Casey is proposing. At 12 can a child really understand "respect for life" or what life and death are. I don't see how these comments would aid the parents of Lara or any other parent in preventing suicide of their children. Perhaps Mr. Casey's comments will generate discussion that eventually broadens the dialogue about suicide prevention. However we do need to get at the core of cyber bullying since that is at least one area where the current problem is on the rise. May the Burn's family have all the love and support needed to come to terms with this tragic loss.

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indigome | Nov 30, 2012, 12:55 PM EST

Only the most rigorous physical scientist may speak of direct correlations that must be data based. The rest of us must be content with "observations" "indications" "it appears". Beware of overclaiming tendencies, but be compassionate toward distraught children and shattered families. It is time for useful discussions and suggestions, not a return to once-accepted violence to children. Corporal punishment just creates a role for a bully who is a larger, older person.

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biggles008 | Nov 30, 2012, 12:43 PM EST

The kids of today are let go wild. I've heard of 2 years old telling their mother to F*** off. It was unknown for that to happen 50 years ago.A kid knew he would be punnished if he did wrong. Now, like in all walks of live there is no real punnishment for anything.

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nicgearailt | Nov 30, 2012, 12:28 PM EST

Doctors ,as a group ,need to be educated about brain function and it's implication for your mental health. Perhaps the folks at RTE could get involved and make good use of their mission to educate the whole population.The brain controls all and lets get an epidemic of education going to help everyone be a little better informed. The schools could also be included in the plan. Ireland can be a melancholy group ..the climate predisposes to sadness,and lets face it ..consumption of alcohol is an issue,not to mention drugs. What I say is to recommend that the country as a whole,embrace this issue,get educated ,so that an informed country recognise the facts, and, open this subject for respectful discussion and support the youth of the country.

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pilib04 | Nov 30, 2012, 12:11 PM EST

Of course that is it. Wow, what a genious! Beat kids and they won't commit suicide! I see the good doctor's genious is shared by Oldloadr.

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jamieLM | Nov 30, 2012, 11:25 AM EST

@Oldloadr, you're right. Life is tough and often unfair. I disagree that corporal punishment leads to developing in children a respect for other people's differences. Children who feel bullied themselves, often bully others. Parents need to model behavior for their children that develops respect, tolerance, and compassion for others they don't agree with and even dislike. Children should be taught zero tolerance for bullying because it doesn't resolve problems and can lead to devastating consequences for everyone involved.

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Oldloadr | Nov 30, 2012, 11:09 AM EST

LiamScanlan - If you don’t know the difference between a beating and corporal punishment, then it’s good that you don’t attempt it. In case you care, the difference is intent. A beating is when an adult goes at a child because the child has upset him/her in some way and that adult is trying to meet a personal selfish need. Proper corporal punishment is when a child’s behavior is such that its continuance could cause grave harm to the child or someone else (e.g. as running out into a busy street, bullying a smaller child, mistreating an animal, etc.) or displays behavior that is morally intolerable (e.g. lying, cheating, stealing). Bottom line: beatings are performed by selfish adults, whereas corporal punishment is performed by loving parents concerned about the welfare of the child in question.

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KatieMurphy | Nov 30, 2012, 11:05 AM EST

Corporal punishment - violence against children leads to violence. Most prisoners were in some way victims of violence - eg physical, mental or even sexual..............One has to wonder how many of these kids were sexually violated by the priests, and the beatings of corporal punishment were just icing on their casket. think of all the eg orphan children violated by the christian brothers, a catholic org that is finally all but disbanded. The kids were used as cheap slave labor in factories building religious goods, fed poorly and housed in cold facilities. As a report said "a good day was a day without a beating"...................Think of how they will react if they are free in the world - almost certainly with violence to any provocation..............This man is mad and shouldn't even be allowed to be a practical nurse.

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