81 Comments

• eiriamach | Apr 07, 2012, 09:34 PM EDT

  Domhnach Cásca faoi shonas daoibh!

• seanomelb | Apr 07, 2012, 07:53 PM EDT

  Dean/eiriamach may your Gods go with you and enjoy the Easter break( I am not averse to taking religious holidays).

• eiriamach | Apr 06, 2012, 10:32 AM EDT

  Yes, seano, I think we need an idea greater than our private self-interested selves to imagine progress for the human race as a whole or even for one nation. I call that idea a religious impulse; it's common to the various world religions. I think the RC form of Christianity is dying, as a set of cultic forms of worship and doctrine, with nothing left to motivate or inspire anyone but its medieval claims to authority. Some Catholics, like Tea Partiers, are just super-dependent on human authority figures; these the pope calls his "holy remnant," and as far as I'm concerned, they can have the remnants of Rome. In terms of how the rest of us see our destiny in common, we've moved beyond authority, decisively, into a world in which choices (if not methods) are clear: between working for the common good and working for private gain. There simply is no rational argument with the power to persuade anyone that it makes any sense to choose the good in common rather than self-interest. Indeed, the more people choose to work for the common good, the more the self-interested stand to gain by exploiting others (the sheeple). Whatever it takes to move people beyond self-interest or narrow class-interest must be supra-rational, the work of the human spirit. That's just one reason why "religion" will survive.

• seanomelb | Apr 05, 2012, 10:16 PM EDT

  They may have killed more Dean and they did not care if the murdered were believers or non-believers. You should also consider the world population was higher in the 20th. century. Eiriamch! I partially accept your premise on western art and architecture,I also accept the great art and buildings were erected by other civilizations older than Christianity and westerners used the architectural principles of other cultures to erect their own edifices.That is not to say that Europeans did not make engineering discoveries of their own,we learn from different cultures and I fail to see what the gospels have to do with it.After all non western societies have used western advancements to progress as westerns used others to do likewise. In a quirky way it is like rejecting Darwinism,humans will advance socially and scientifically regardless of religion.To state that Christianity has helped advanced the human condition is a fair point ,but is Christianity(or any religion) necessary to do so.

• eiriamach | Apr 05, 2012, 11:03 AM EDT

  McNamara31, Thanks. It helps greatly to know that progress and reason have an ally in you.

• eiriamach | Apr 05, 2012, 10:52 AM EDT

  Seano, you must admit Western civilization would be much impoverished if not for the influence of the Gospel. Just consider the art, architecture, music, philosophy and sciences that Christians have developed and patronized. I know that institutionalized Christianity in its lust for power waged war and still wages war on artists and scientists alike, as well as teachers and statesmen. The pope's latest anti-secularist campaign shows he has learned nothing from history! But some have seen the political system of the USA, for example, as evidence of a divine will at work in history. One Anglican theologian claimed, "secular civilization has co-operated with Christianity to produce the modern world" (Illingworth, "The Incarnation and Development"). Such views are crazily over-optimistic! Progress has come from tension and conflict between church and secular life. History of the 20th century underscores the dualism of our nature-- sheer barbarism--wars, genocide--alongside a passion to replace long-standing injustice with justice--civil rights, war on poverty, etc. Our eternal struggle, and through it all a spirit survives from ancient times and emerges in eras like ours, right now, and we throw off dead cultic forms and reclaim our nobler sense of destiny, which religions keep alive only because they preserve revelation, scripture (they mistakenly think that task gives them authority). So you write, "We must do battle for what is just and proper in our lives on a daily basis. This is a human ethos with no religious connotation." Is it just a difference in how we see it? To me that battle IS the work of religion.

• McNamara31 | Apr 04, 2012, 07:56 PM EDT

  eiriamach..Great points

• seanomelb | Apr 04, 2012, 07:08 PM EDT

  We must do battle for what is just and proper in our lives on a daily basis. This is a human ethos with no religious connotation. Deifying Jesus,Mohammad or anyone else has failed to improve the human condition.Religious teachings have always been about controlling the human spirit,The pharisees,the Mullahs,the catholic hierarchy all preaching from the same hymn book of control, divide and conquer.They all evoke "God" to help them in there wars against the "enemy".The only suffering is by the masses who have no power and they are asked to pray to God to find solace when all they really need is a lifestyle and a happy existence which religions have failed miserably to do so.And all the time our religious masters live in the lap of luxury. I am almost tempted to quote Diderot but he was a tad extreme.Stuff it I'll post it anyway "we will hang the last priest with the entrails of the last monarch"(Diderot)

• eiriamach | Apr 04, 2012, 08:37 AM EDT

  DeanJackson, yes, I agree that the history of early Christianity is important to considering it a living religion. I can't agree with some others here that religion as "an ancient franchise" has lost its usefulness (though the bishops may have lost theirs). Or as Maddpatt writes, that "religion is a very personal thing. Something I practice within myself." When I read such words, I feel something missing. When Christianity is only personal, it risks becoming a feel-good "Jesus-is-my-personal-savior" evangelicalism, a cousin to narcissism. And the bishops' "history and culture" message poses opposite risks: being swallowed up by church, distracted by a Siren song about a silent God awaiting "repentance and renewal." Like language, a living religion is essentially communal, shared. If "The Kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21), "you" are still many: the Kingdom is "in your midst," as a shared glimpse of outward reality transformed. Jesus called his followers to BE 'church'-- on its feet-- reaching out with messianic and sanctifying powers to hasten the kingdom of God, not retreating from the world INTO church as sacred cult-ure or INTO themselves. However monarchic a church becomes with 'princes' and pope and reigning orthodoxies, it is not the kingdom of God. If it were, we would not pray "Thy kingdom come." "Church" exists only because God has a "kingdom come" mission that requires corporal activity, as one body. It's not given to a human heart in solitude, nor conserved unchanged as a rigid culture from ancient history; it lives in relationships. If its history is true, it's wrong to consider Christianity either entirely "personal," or in need of cultic "renewal."

• CitizenWhy | Apr 04, 2012, 12:00 AM EDT

  Hierarchies without constraints will become corrupt.

• seanomelb | Apr 03, 2012, 08:15 PM EDT

  I find it incredible you would state that what Jesus said or done is irrelevant in Christianity maybe the dissertation I read was correct and a name change to Paulian would be correct. And as you know Paul by his own admission(Galatians1;13) admitted persecuting the followers of Jesus (a Jewish sect),maybe Paul was having a bob each way and joined the bigger party as Augustine did when death approached.I read various religions and approach them as historical documents and as we know, that understanding ancient readings can be read to suit the eye of the beholder it's the old "Singer not the song" syndrome.

• eiriamach | Apr 03, 2012, 07:32 PM EDT

  Dyslexia may not be on the same level as homicide and starvation, StevenStar, but it's not a "shallow" problem either for those who suffer from it. 'Glad to know you do not.

• STEVENSTAR | Apr 03, 2012, 04:32 PM EDT

  @@@@eiriamach | Apr 02, 2012, 09:43 PM EDT Maybe STEVENSTAR has a visual impairment and needs to write in capital letters to see what he types. If that's the problem and he has a PC, he might find a "Magnifier" in his "Accessories" folder, and perhaps it will solve his problem. Or maybe he has a form of dyslexia that confuses different lower-case letters. If that's the problem, he can use a word processor such as Corel's WP to type the text in all caps and then drop down his "Edit" menu and select "convert to lower case." If he doesn't have any perceptual/neurological problem and simply writes all capitals to annoy others, then I agree he should STOP doing that>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOUR COMMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARTICLE AND AS FOR ME WRITING IN CAPS, IF THATS ALL YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IN YOUR LIFE WHEN HALF THE WORLD IS STARVING AND GUN CRIMES ON THE INCREASE THEN YOU MUST LIVE A VERY SHALLOW LIFE .... (just a thought for you )!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

• snakehips | Apr 03, 2012, 12:22 PM EDT

  As always, it is the failings of the Catholic Laity that the bishops and the pope blame on the demise of the Church. They just don't get it! People are not tired of God, they are tired of the immoral behavior of their leaders and the hubris that is projected from this leadership. You must have an attractive product to sell before anyone can buy it. God has one, the Catholic Church doesn't.

• butlerreport | Apr 03, 2012, 11:52 AM EDT

  People are tired because of the behavior those who claim to have an monopoly on access to G-d have shown. We can talk to G-d directly - religion is a sham, an ancient franchise that has outlived its day. Can you imagine how G-d feels, that these child abusers and denier have the balls to say that they are men of G-d? The fires of hell await.

• eiriamach | Apr 03, 2012, 11:03 AM EDT

  DeanJackson, I think you're missing the point. If the Christian churches' claim to be the Body of Christ were based ONLY on history (descent from the apostles), then your allusions to historical documents would carry the argument. But it cannot be based solely on historical sources such as the Acts of the Apostles, the Gospels, and early church fathers. The criteria for recognizing the Body of Christ include "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic." Do not overlook the "one" and the "holy" and the "catholic." Failure to work for, or even to care about, unity-- oneness-- has eroded the ligaments of the Body. Refusal to accept the workings of grace in Christian ministries not authorized by the Vatican, which fraudulently claims to be the whole deposit of "authority" (against the Constitution of Vatican II) cuts flourishing members off. And in our own time, with clerical corruption, lies, and sexual predation still unresolved, with no effective safeguards in place (yes, I know the Irish bishops have their ecclesiastical "safeguards," but they do not reach beyond sacristy walls, and they are designed by known liars) underscores the absence of holiness. Claims to "authority"-- whether of history or supernatural origin-- are always subject to testing, as the Gospel advises us to do. And those who make the strongest claims to authority are flunking the tests of holiness and oneness. So suspicion afflicts the Body of Christ, rightly so.

• madpadd | Apr 03, 2012, 03:48 AM EDT

  Personally, I think religion is a very personal thing. Something I practice within myself as I find the whole thing has become a bit of an embaracement. Homosexuality, abuse, lies, denial etc. I still, at 62, say a prayer at night. I thank God for what I have. I feel blessed when I see someone less fortunate than myself. Most importantly, I still have that little voice inside of me which says...."that wasn't very nice", if i do something bad.

• eiriamach | Apr 02, 2012, 09:43 PM EDT

  Maybe STEVENSTAR has a visual impairment and needs to write in capital letters to see what he types. If that's the problem and he has a PC, he might find a "Magnifier" in his "Accessories" folder, and perhaps it will solve his problem. Or maybe he has a form of dyslexia that confuses different lower-case letters. If that's the problem, he can use a word processor such as Corel's WP to type the text in all caps and then drop down his "Edit" menu and select "convert to lower case." If he doesn't have any perceptual/neurological problem and simply writes all capitals to annoy others, then I agree he should STOP doing that.

• seanomelb | Apr 02, 2012, 07:16 PM EDT

  Dean they would probably be as suspicious as if I claimed I fed the multitudes with five loaves and a few fish or I turned water into wine,I suppose if I don't sell the wine no harm has been done.Maybe a red dye was used to trick the feast goers,a party trick maybe. I notice you skip over the Paul who helped the romans murder and incarcerate the "Christians".

• KatieMurphy | Apr 02, 2012, 07:02 PM EDT

  charlesem let me add one more thing re the comment about the bishops etc clothing................I've read that the cost of a set of their clothes is about $30,000........ So much for vows of poverty - Didnt Christ wear rags?

• jacersagain | Apr 02, 2012, 04:32 PM EDT

  @jamieLM - I think you're so nearly right about true Christianity and the Holy Trinity but not quite there. Foe me, after years of searching for a true understanding of Christianity I find the RCC is the best (outside of its scandals). Eastern Orthodox and Messianic Jews would come a very close second imo.

• jacersagain | Apr 02, 2012, 04:27 PM EDT

  WILL STEVENSTAR PLEASE GET RID OF CAPS IN POSTS?? Apart from caps being intended to portray shouting in posts, it is also is the height of bad internet manners and makes posts difficult to read thereby inviting all to ignore the post altogether. I do.

• Collette2 | Apr 02, 2012, 03:24 PM EDT

  IrelandNorth, your quite right. I have just finished reading about the priest who accidently showed filthy pictures to a group discussing First Communions. Maybe they had better clean out all the presbyteries under their juristriction, before they tell others to repent and turn to God.

• ciaradexy | Apr 02, 2012, 03:17 PM EDT

  I dont eat McDonalds. Maybe its all the additives and E numbers your consuming everyday that has made you hyper active or something but using capital letters doesn't mean you'll get your point across any better. It just makes you look autistic and a bit like George Dillon too. i.e angry and unknowledgeable.

• STEVENSTAR | Apr 02, 2012, 02:58 PM EDT

  @@ciaradexy | Apr 02, 2012, 02:28 PM EDT STEVEN-CAPS LOCK OFF!!!! We dont need all the shouting. You're making yourself look a tad idiotic man.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOU MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS DEAR AND GO EAT SOME BIG MACS !!! MISS KNOW IT ALL..

• ciaradexy | Apr 02, 2012, 02:29 PM EDT

  Cynicus, not all of us can worship the sun as some of us never see it but I do like your idea!

• ciaradexy | Apr 02, 2012, 02:28 PM EDT

  STEVEN-CAPS LOCK OFF!!!! We dont need all the shouting. You're making yourself look a tad idiotic man.

• jamieLM | Apr 02, 2012, 11:21 AM EDT

  I choose to believe in God/Jesus and an afterlife, and not out of guilt or fear from anyone. I have faith in a Holy Trinity that I can't prove exists to anyone who has doubts or rejects it. I don't tell anyone how they should feel or think about their religious or non-religious beliefs. Not my business. It's not up to me to pass judgment on agnostics, atheists, non-Christians, the unbaptized, or anyone who doesn't think the way I do. Since I believe in God, I think that's HIS business to make final judgments and to decide what happens to everyone after death, not mine, or the RCC hierarchy, or anyone elses. Christianity has lots of layers with traditions that have little or no historical, Scriptural, and/or scientific basis. I find many of these traditional layers (beliefs) irrelevant and unnecessary. I don't need them to believe in the core of the Christian faith which is God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and the forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

• charlesm | Apr 02, 2012, 10:09 AM EDT

  Brava! Katie Murphy for her thought: "for most people the church is God." For many of us, neither the Church nor Jesus is God. Most of humanity share a belief in "God"/Divine Power/Source of Life -- call it what one wills. This is far different from the sectarian God often quoted. The Jesus proclaimed by many Christian sects (Catholicism included) is preoccupied with sex, marriage, birth, and judging of others, while Jesus many of us read about in the Scriptures was concerned with the poor, the powerless, the marginalized, those issues that Christian sects appear so unconcered with. Yes, let's call people back to the Jesus of the first 300 years of the era, NOT to that developed since Constantine with its imperial, wealthy and royal trappings. Don't get me started BUT, first, get rid of these ridiculous costumes our hierarchy parade around in. Guys, this is the 21ST century, and you, (the Pope) claims to be "servant of the servants of God."

• Portia777 | Apr 02, 2012, 09:59 AM EDT

  eiriamach | Mar 31, 2012, 09:34 AM EDT God is not silent. God is shouting to the bishops LOL,, that is where SELECTIVE HEARING has its uses.

• Portia777 | Apr 02, 2012, 09:58 AM EDT

  hollabackgurl | Mar 31, 2012, 12:00 PM EDT It's so rare to meet a religious person who respects and honors all other people and walkk of life. Perhaps that's why. That is the difference between a religious person and a spiritual being. Religion was created to divide and conquer and the sheeple play right into the unseen hands,, called god.

• cynicus | Apr 02, 2012, 09:50 AM EDT

  Reading all these comments, I cannot escape the fact that, unGodly-unAtheistic though it may seem, religion is a topic that divides and separates nations and persons in a most hate-filled manner. Religion may be said to be like a certain feminine article of clothing: it uplifts some and separates others. There is so much antagonism and bad-feeling generated by religion or no religion; God or no God, that one wonders if we would be better off without religion? Could we them get on with our own life and stop the preaching and bitterness. Let us all return to sun-worship! At least we could not find much there to become enemies over- or could we?

• IrelandNorth | Apr 02, 2012, 08:35 AM EDT

  The last thing Irish people need is "Irish bishops" (sic) telling them to repent and turn to God. Subservience to a highly privileged and undemocratic hierarchy which is a throwback to medieval feudal Europe isn't necessary for doing so. And many quite probably be the antithesis of such.

• eiriamach | Apr 02, 2012, 06:51 AM EDT

  Ciara writes, "so we live our lives and do things for others without needing a reward in an afterlife for it." That's Christianity perfected--or any religion that has a doctrine of salvation. Salvation is not about focusing on oneself and crowing about deserving an afterlife (which can never be deserved)-- it's about participating in the ongoing work of Creation to transform the world we live in, rather than just complaining about its "secularism" and blaming and condemning those who reject the Catholic "formula." A formulaic approach to Christianity deadens it into an authority-ridden cult until it is no longer a way of living in the real world and becoming fully human. When I see the Christians posting below objecting to being "patronized" while pontificating about who is in need of repentance, I'm reminded of Bishop Sheen's comment about waking up in heaven after death. The only thing that will surprise you more than the fact that you're there, he said, is seeing who else is there! They push a warped, repulsive, self-serving version of Christianity when they pass judgment on others out of their delusions of superiority. The first shall be last....

• Collette2 | Apr 01, 2012, 10:22 PM EDT

  seanomelb, you can always make me laugh, even the kids notice. barneyjo, I'm not into Pio, but I can imagine the Holy Spirit saying something like that. I'm not into Garandabal either, but I also go along with the bishops leading many to hell too.

• KatieMurphy | Apr 01, 2012, 08:39 PM EDT

  Its so interesting there are still defenders of the church. People so brainwashed into a promise of life after death and fearful of burning in hell that they still support this lurid institution of abuse, homophobia, etc........... Something interesting I discovered yesterday............ Besides the baptist and catholic church in the USA, the 3rd largest "church" is "ex-catholic". About ten million. People who have dumped the terrorism, promises, fear, guilt the church installs into their minds...............People who care more about their children and others then personal salvation...... That is the proper attitude..............Long ago I realized that the only piece of religion we need is Jesus second commandment - love thy neighbor as thyself...............I'm sure that if there is an afterlife, we'll be welcomed. If there isn't, well in our last hours we can be glad we made other peoples lives better......................

• KatieMurphy | Apr 01, 2012, 08:29 PM EDT

  To many the church is God. Given that it has committed horrible crimes against children world wide, we should be glad that this God, or its representative is gone. the latest flap - the church has been exposed in the Netherlands as having castrated both gay children and children who dared to complain about being abused. MOst news items say only about 10 kids, but one says one hundred or more. Given the relavations still coming about sexual abuse, we may assume that even the hundreds are just the tip of the iceberg of another related form of crimes against children. go to news-dot-com.au-slash top stories (re cath chuch castrated boys.

• seanomelb | Apr 01, 2012, 08:25 PM EDT

  It would appear we have an atheist bigotry and intolerance by the so called Christian lobby today.Dean Jackson I find it curious you using Paul as a "witness of faith" after all he spent some years murdering "Christians" for the Romans before he had his "Damascus moment".He hardly is an honest broker in this debate.I was reading a dissertation on Paul by an academic who claims "Christians" should really be known as "Paulians" as he invented the said religion,Jesus certainly did not.Quoting Holmes!! This time you quote a non-existent individual.BTW do not try to force your "understanding"of past events as if you and you alone are the expert.Maybe St. Augustine"s "lately have I loved you lord" would be more apt as he only believed in god when he was almost on his deathbed.having a bet each maybe.Nevertheless I respect your right to have your opinion and that goes for the naysayers below.

• STEVENSTAR | Apr 01, 2012, 07:39 PM EDT

  @@@@LacarourSeanB | Mar 31, 2012, 07:04 PM EDT Cardinal Brady is spot on>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LETS HSIP HIM OVER TO WHERE YOU LIVE THEN DARLING YOUR MORE TEHN WELCOME TO HAVE HYPROCRITES LIKE THIS AS WE NO LONGER WELCOME THEM IN IRELAND

• STEVENSTAR | Apr 01, 2012, 07:36 PM EDT

  IM IRISH I LIVE IN IREALND AND NOT AT ALL WE ARE NOT BORED WITH RELIGON WE ARE BORED WITH ALL THE CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE AND SEXUAL ASSAULTS AND ALL THE HIDDEN ABUSE THAT WENT ON IN THE CHURCH AND WAS COVERED UP FOR YEARS BY BISHOPS AND PRIESTS .. THATS WHAT WE IRISH ARE SICK OF AND THERE IS A HUGE BACKLASH .. THE BISHOP NEEDS TO COME OFF HIS HIGH HORSE AND SORT OUT HIS OWN AFFAIRS IN HIS OWN ORGANISATION BESIDES POINTING THE FINGER ELSEWHERE ... SUCH ARROGANCE IS DISGUSTING!!!

• jacersagain | Apr 01, 2012, 06:05 PM EDT

  No deals ciara - just buzz off with your hatred and blasphemous comments about something you don't believe in. Like Gearoid4 says, we will however continue to defend our faith against spurious claims and unwarranted attacks, like yours about there being no afterlife. Actually, I'm very sad for you, one who has deliberately chosen to defect from the Irish Catholic Church but still can turn around and say "just because you don’t believe in something doesn’t mean you’ve turned your back on it... I’ll keep santa going for the kiddies”. How much more of a fraud are you going to keep up being? You’re either in or out, no deals, no half-way measures. Well, actually there is one: like Christ said “Repent” and you will be welcomed into the Kingdom of God (which is not of this world and therefore must be in an afterlife). It’s Lent ciara... a chance for you to go back to the Risen Christ? Don’t be afraid to, no one is going to stop you doing that.

• Gearoid4 | Apr 01, 2012, 04:51 PM EDT

  Well, we have to put up with your snide put-downs concerning the tenets of Faith. You claim that we "patronize" those who do not agree with us. But if explaining our stating one's beliefs amounts to "patronizing", than I reckon that you are just going out of your way to feel offended, while feeling free to crudely attack religious beliefs. You cannot have it both ways.

• ciaradexy | Apr 01, 2012, 04:36 PM EDT

  Gearoid,I ave no issues with people having religion in their lives or believing in their God. What i have issue with is it being forced down other peoples throats and by being patronised by people like you. Non believers dont believe in an after life so we live our lives and do things for others without needing a reward in an afterlife for it. Dont patronise us for that.

• Gearoid4 | Apr 01, 2012, 04:20 PM EDT

  Europe has reached a tipping point in terms of it's socio-economic future as the indebtedness of certain member nations threaten to upset the EU project. Man-made political and social philosophies have been exposed in terms of their severe limitations in answering life's questions at the most profoundest of levels. Western Europe needs a reevaluation in terms of the values systems which prevail there. Nations in that region need to re-discover their Christian roots as Christianity laid the foundations for the development of civilization across Europe. It looks like ciara.d is stridently proclaiming her atheistic credentials again by trying to shout down those who have a religious belief on this forum. We will not be silenced and will continue to state our beliefs, in a charitable but firm fashion.

• barneyjo | Apr 01, 2012, 04:13 PM EDT

  @jacersagain - this is a red letter day when I get a "thumbs up" for my post from your good self. The God of us all at at work this Eastertime perchance:)

• ciaradexy | Apr 01, 2012, 04:10 PM EDT

  I'll make a deal with you believers so. You shut up preaching to us and we'll stop telling you to shut up preaching to us. Just because you dont believe in something doesnt mean that you turned your back on it. I dont believe in santa but I'll keep the tradition going for the kiddies in my life.

• jacersagain | Apr 01, 2012, 11:15 AM EDT

  senomelb and ciaradexy are both way off track, esp ciara’s comment “You believe in what you want to believe in and stop preaching to the rest of us who don’t”. We who still believe can just as easily say that ciaradexy, hollabackgurl and others like them can stop shoving their blasphemy upon us (e.g. ciara’s “not the messiah, was a very naughty boy”). Go off with yourselves now, you choose to lose or reject the faith - so be gone with yez, get lost now and quit commenting on matters that you turned your back on. You only persist in showing greater ignorance of the power of Jesus Christ still alive in today’s catholic world.

• jacersagain | Apr 01, 2012, 11:12 AM EDT

  I think DeanJackson is totally correct as are peterson, eiriamach, LacarourSeanB and barneyjo. I too cannot believe that my Irish Catholic Church leaders would come out with a letter like this in the prevailing climate surrounding abuse by some priests and its cover-up by some Bishops. Mind you, that’s not to say that what they say in the letter is not correct... it is very much correct IMO... but a crass letter all the same in these times. BTW, re DeanJ’s comments on St. Paul, St. Paul and all the Apostles remained Jewish to the end of their lives, still practicing as Jews, reading the Torah etc but they had the added glory of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist and His words to live by and spread around the world – their legacy to us. Messianic Jews claim Paul and the Apostles were basically the first Messianic Jews; they probably were too, just as we call them the first basic Christians. It is nice to see Messianic Jews growing in strength and numbers. I think some of our Bishops need to re-discover how to be basic Christians, perhaps Messianic Jews, before they can issue proper Christian leadership letters like thhis one is not.

• ramanan50 | Apr 01, 2012, 10:49 AM EDT

  It is no surprise. Man misses God and God is always silent. 'Among Languages,I am Silence' Lord Krishna says. Being silent ,unaffected by the events around one,joyful at all times is the meaning of attaining peace and Godhood. When Religion becomes dogmatic, forgetting that the Religion is for the people, right at that moment God, for that Religion, is dead. 'The Kingdom of God is within you' said Jesus. Unfortunately the Church, instead of following this, has been , for centuries, resorting to blind liturgy, ceremonies and other paraphernalia.Unless the Church returns to the main teaching of Christ , simple living, high thinking,tolerance and eternal quest to realise God,the West shall be materialistic and be plagued by self doubts.

• seanomelb | Mar 31, 2012, 08:31 PM EDT

  Their's nothing prophetic in padre pio's discourse.Maybe he should have taken some iron tablets for all that blood loss.Dean Jackson challenges us with meaningless gobbledygook and dresses it up as proof.He probably has a list of 500 names hidden away somewhere.

• abhainn | Mar 31, 2012, 08:08 PM EDT

  The Irish bishops continue to ignore the voice of the people and fail to accept their personal decisions to turn away from the corrupt and dishonoured church. This bleating by the hierarchy is just passing water into the wind.

• LacarourSeanB | Mar 31, 2012, 07:04 PM EDT

  Cardinal Brady is spot on.

• barneyjo | Mar 31, 2012, 05:31 PM EDT

  @Collette2 - "The ingratitude and the sleep of my ministers increase the agony for me. They badly respond to my love! The greater torment for me is that these people add their contempt to their indifference and disbelief. How many times my wrath was to strike them like lightning, but I was stopped by the angels and the souls who love me"!! Saint Pio's writings from the year 1913, almost a Century ago, are very prophetic dont you think?

• ciaradexy | Mar 31, 2012, 05:11 PM EDT

  Collete and peterson, you might be sheep but there are many of us who arent. You believe in what you want to believe in and stop preaching to the rest of us who dont.

• Collette2 | Mar 31, 2012, 02:56 PM EDT

  Not likely, the all seeing eye of God misses nothing don't worry. I think confession is being made a joke of, and thats includes by our shepherds who have collectively deceived led their flock away.

• peterson | Mar 31, 2012, 02:12 PM EDT

  Leaving the Church and God is not the answer and this will contribute to the downfall of Europe. Non believers in God will some day say to themselves, "Boy, I sure screwed up".

• ciaradexy | Mar 31, 2012, 01:31 PM EDT

  Deanjackson, hes not the messiah, hes a very naughty boy. Hollabackgurl, i love your posts.

• hollabackgurl | Mar 31, 2012, 12:00 PM EDT

  It's so rare to meet a religious person who respects and honors all other people and walkk of life. Perhaps that's why.

• eiriamach | Mar 31, 2012, 09:34 AM EDT

  God is not silent. God is shouting to the bishops to own up to the mess they've made, to bring the civil law into the Church to drive the liars and predators out. Most posters below are also crying foul. Anyone can hear it, but the bishops are not listening. Their ears are turned in the wrong direction. They hear only the self-serving excuses coming from Rome.

• barneyjo | Mar 31, 2012, 06:08 AM EDT

  @SirPeter - If anybody here has shot the messenger it is Cardinal Brady and his brother bishops. And it is because their messages now sound so shrill, desperate and hollow, that they have no moral authority left to lead anyone anywhere, UNLESS they can show they are sincere. And lets be honest, there are those who saw this coming long ago."The ingratitude and the sleep of my ministers increase the agony for me. They badly respond to my love! The greater torment for me is that these people add their contempt to their indifference and disbelief. How many times my wrath was to strike them like lightning, but I was stopped by the angels and the souls who love me"!! (Written by Padre, now Saint Pio, from his Apparitions writings,1913) A Saint of our Church who heard this directly from the God of us all?? Im sure Pio would'nt dream of shooting "this" particular messenger, and neither would I!!

• seanomelb | Mar 30, 2012, 11:34 PM EDT

  God is "silent and unmissed" maybe it's because he does not exist.

• aloistmartin | Mar 30, 2012, 09:52 PM EDT

  Or wake up on Easter Morning with something more than Ham and Hard Boiled Eggs on One`s Mind ~

• tombegs | Mar 30, 2012, 09:39 PM EDT

  For once, it seems that they may have gotten something right. Now all they have to do is accept the fact that they are responsible for what happened.

• sirpeter | Mar 30, 2012, 09:36 PM EDT

  Better listen people.Capitalism and Communism is the opposite sides of the SAME coin.All those payed hollidays (holydays)Sunday a family day.A day of rest.Not really anymore is it?Who is winning the battle to make you a slave?A slave to crap you don't need.Those 10 commandments.All that morality.What a headache!!.Lets be fair about it.All law tries to base itself on good living.It's reinforced by the church.Do you know what fu*k ye.Most of ye are to thick stupid anyway.None of ye think outside the box.The whole lot of ye are slaves to your own upbringing.Anybody here have an original thought? Barneyjo who the hell are you to tell anybody to go first? Shoot the messenger?Why don't ye all just shut up.Man up!!Except the fact your standard of living is killing people who have nothing and God rolls his eyes at your pitiful efforts at giving to the starving kids around the world.Go on show your disgust at the Bishops and Priests.Ye fools.Mousemess says sorry about punctuation.

• Seanmor | Mar 30, 2012, 08:08 PM EDT

  mousemess: I attend an ocassional mass in an Episcopal church, said by a priest who insists that he is an Anglican Catholic, and in some ways he is more Catholic than many clergy of the Roman Church. I once had the pleasure of meeting his bishop, a true Christian who follows the teachings of the Bible and obeys the laws of God. Another thing I like about this priest and his bishop is that they are both militaary veterans, as am I. I'm also a Legionnaire and I regularly attend meeting of the American Legion, where a chalain says opening and closing prayers and God is mentioned in the first sentence of the preamble. Despite what Political Correctness and liberalism expects of those who consider themselves thoroughly modern Europeans, there is still room for the Supreme Being among millions of Americans, including many of its most loyal citizens.

• Tilliewillow | Mar 30, 2012, 07:05 PM EDT

  Who listens to these men any more? Just a lot of ridiculous mush from men worried about their disappearing power and control.

• barneyjo | Mar 30, 2012, 06:33 PM EDT

  "The Cardinal also asked the faithful to resist the temptation to put convenience, celebrity, domination, blindness, dishonesty, pride or any other ambition, craving or comfort in the place of God" - YOU FIRST YOUR EMINENCE!!

• phinsman | Mar 30, 2012, 04:55 PM EDT

  I have lots of Irish heritage and love it. I grew up Catholic, but am no longer Catholic and am a non-believer. I can understand why people are not religious... when you study science and math, logic can tend to dominate the way you think. Since there is no proof of a Superior Being, it would make sense that people would be agnostic or non-believers. I am guessing we will never know how our universe got created, as the Big Bang Theory has not been proven yet, but this doesn't mean that our universe was created by a Superior Being. And what confuses me is that those who believe in a Superior Being don't question themselves on who created that Superior Being.

• CitizenWhy | Mar 30, 2012, 03:57 PM EDT

  The call for repentance is the first step in the big plan: total obedience to the clerics. Pipe dream. ... On the other hand more emotional and personal religions that are capable of creating vibrant communities could grow in Europe and Ireland: Pentecostalism and American style mega-churches (which are really community centers, with special attention to activities for everyone in a family). Medieval Catholicism has run its course. The churchy stuff - gothicy style, pews, cranky dictators prancing about, colored windows, dead saints whom no one can relate to - gone.

• lokionline | Mar 30, 2012, 03:13 PM EDT

  Good luck with that "repentance" thing. Coming from the man that swore children to secrecy to protect his cult, what does that even mean?

• McNamara31 | Mar 30, 2012, 12:46 PM EDT

  The bishops reiterate Pope Benedict's observation that Europeans seem tired of their faith, including their history and culture, and they no longer seem to wish to know Jesus Christ" Wrong again; The people are not tired of Christ, the people are quite tired of the supposed men of God who follow corporate interests rather than Christ’s teaching. If Bishop Martin bought one of the churches that the Vatican has closed and preached the message of Christ in the spirit of Patrick and Brigid of Kildare every seat would be filled. People are sick of the utter hypocrisy and a Vatican that continues to blame other factors for the silent stampede from the pews.

• Murph46 | Mar 30, 2012, 12:41 PM EDT

  Irishmiss -someone who gets it! Have a fine day lassie!

• Heather911 | Mar 30, 2012, 12:40 PM EDT

  Religion is suppose to be person. Your relationship with God is an intimate one. Just because you don't active Christians in the public eye, does not mean that God is "unmissed and silent" as you put it. Read the Book of Matthew, Christ warned about public display.

• Irishmiss | Mar 30, 2012, 12:08 PM EDT

  Don't get too liberal, Ireland. We live in the USA and if you don't have the church telling you what to do, you'll have politicians and who knows who else telling you what to do. It can get worse (as Murph46 writes). Stick with your own!

• Irishmiss | Mar 30, 2012, 11:17 AM EDT

  This is 2012- gone are the days of sin and suffering. The sheeple have awoken to the scam of "god"wanting the sheeple to suffer and PAY the men in dresses to talk to him. Like any cult, its time is over.

• Irishmiss | Mar 30, 2012, 11:13 AM EDT

  the Irish bishops are promoting a theme of repentance," Let the men of god do their own repentance.

• Mousemess | Mar 30, 2012, 11:13 AM EDT

  Sorry for the missing punctuation, etc. I am still sleepy from a late night in front of my TV last night after a long day with relatives yesterday. Slan go foill.

• Mousemess | Mar 30, 2012, 11:12 AM EDT

  God is “silent and unmissed” in Europe Ah so the men of god are not hearing the voices in their heads these days? well that is a good sign at least

• Mousemess | Mar 30, 2012, 11:09 AM EDT

  What I like about living in the USA, is that I can still choose to go to church if that's my desire and that I can find other liberal people of faith to worship with. I am in the liberal branch of Episcopalian Christian worship and belief and I go a welcoming and diverse church attended by all ages, races and straight and gay alike. Just because some of us Americans are liberal doesn't mean that some us liberal Americans don't love and don't God and Jesus in our lives. Atheism doesn't speak to our hearts and doesn't satisfy an inner hunger for some spirituality in our lives. Money to live and maintain ourselves in a reasonably OK fashion in good health material things and comforts are needed and appreciated, but sometimes some of us need to put aside the bill-paying and other cares of the world for a few hours once a week of being with our church family in prayer and in fellowship. If that possibility of worshiping with liberal people of faith is lacking in Europe, then glad to visit Europe, but also glad to come home to the USA to the people I love most like my friends and birth family and also to my church family.

• katie55418 | Mar 30, 2012, 10:46 AM EDT

  Perhaps if there were a distinction by the Cardinal, or at least a specific acknowledgement of the need for repentance on the part of clergy, this would have more impact. My perception, from across the pond is once again, whatever.

• Murph46 | Mar 30, 2012, 10:26 AM EDT

  Probably so as secularism reigns! You will have a new "god"soon in Ireland-China!prepare ye heathens It ain't going to get better!