Irish bishops say God is “silent and unmissed” in Europe

Domhnach Cásca faoi shonas daoibh!

Dean/eiriamach may your Gods go with you and enjoy the Easter break( I am not averse to taking religious holidays).

Yes, seano, I think we need an idea greater than our private self-interested selves to imagine progress for the human race as a whole or even for one nation. I call that idea a religious impulse; it's common to the various world religions. I think the RC form of Christianity is dying, as a set of cultic forms of worship and doctrine, with nothing left to motivate or inspire anyone but its medieval claims to authority. Some Catholics, like Tea Partiers, are just super-dependent on human authority figures; these the pope calls his "holy remnant," and as far as I'm concerned, they can have the remnants of Rome. In terms of how the rest of us see our destiny in common, we've moved beyond authority, decisively, into a world in which choices (if not methods) are clear: between working for the common good and working for private gain. There simply is no rational argument with the power to persuade anyone that it makes any sense to choose the good in common rather than self-interest. Indeed, the more people choose to work for the common good, the more the self-interested stand to gain by exploiting others (the sheeple). Whatever it takes to move people beyond self-interest or narrow class-interest must be supra-rational, the work of the human spirit. That's just one reason why "religion" will survive.

They may have killed more Dean and they did not care if the murdered were believers or non-believers. You should also consider the world population was higher in the 20th. century. Eiriamch! I partially accept your premise on western art and architecture,I also accept the great art and buildings were erected by other civilizations older than Christianity and westerners used the architectural principles of other cultures to erect their own edifices.That is not to say that Europeans did not make engineering discoveries of their own,we learn from different cultures and I fail to see what the gospels have to do with it.After all non western societies have used western advancements to progress as westerns used others to do likewise. In a quirky way it is like rejecting Darwinism,humans will advance socially and scientifically regardless of religion.To state that Christianity has helped advanced the human condition is a fair point ,but is Christianity(or any religion) necessary to do so.

McNamara31, Thanks. It helps greatly to know that progress and reason have an ally in you.

Seano, you must admit Western civilization would be much impoverished if not for the influence of the Gospel. Just consider the art, architecture, music, philosophy and sciences that Christians have developed and patronized. I know that institutionalized Christianity in its lust for power waged war and still wages war on artists and scientists alike, as well as teachers and statesmen. The pope's latest anti-secularist campaign shows he has learned nothing from history! But some have seen the political system of the USA, for example, as evidence of a divine will at work in history. One Anglican theologian claimed, "secular civilization has co-operated with Christianity to produce the modern world" (Illingworth, "The Incarnation and Development"). Such views are crazily over-optimistic! Progress has come from tension and conflict between church and secular life. History of the 20th century underscores the dualism of our nature-- sheer barbarism--wars, genocide--alongside a passion to replace long-standing injustice with justice--civil rights, war on poverty, etc. Our eternal struggle, and through it all a spirit survives from ancient times and emerges in eras like ours, right now, and we throw off dead cultic forms and reclaim our nobler sense of destiny, which religions keep alive only because they preserve revelation, scripture (they mistakenly think that task gives them authority). So you write, "We must do battle for what is just and proper in our lives on a daily basis. This is a human ethos with no religious connotation." Is it just a difference in how we see it? To me that battle IS the work of religion.

eiriamach..Great points

We must do battle for what is just and proper in our lives on a daily basis. This is a human ethos with no religious connotation. Deifying Jesus,Mohammad or anyone else has failed to improve the human condition.Religious teachings have always been about controlling the human spirit,The pharisees,the Mullahs,the catholic hierarchy all preaching from the same hymn book of control, divide and conquer.They all evoke "God" to help them in there wars against the "enemy".The only suffering is by the masses who have no power and they are asked to pray to God to find solace when all they really need is a lifestyle and a happy existence which religions have failed miserably to do so.And all the time our religious masters live in the lap of luxury. I am almost tempted to quote Diderot but he was a tad extreme.Stuff it I'll post it anyway "we will hang the last priest with the entrails of the last monarch"(Diderot)

DeanJackson, yes, I agree that the history of early Christianity is important to considering it a living religion. I can't agree with some others here that religion as "an ancient franchise" has lost its usefulness (though the bishops may have lost theirs). Or as Maddpatt writes, that "religion is a very personal thing. Something I practice within myself." When I read such words, I feel something missing. When Christianity is only personal, it risks becoming a feel-good "Jesus-is-my-personal-savior" evangelicalism, a cousin to narcissism. And the bishops' "history and culture" message poses opposite risks: being swallowed up by church, distracted by a Siren song about a silent God awaiting "repentance and renewal." Like language, a living religion is essentially communal, shared. If "The Kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21), "you" are still many: the Kingdom is "in your midst," as a shared glimpse of outward reality transformed. Jesus called his followers to BE 'church'-- on its feet-- reaching out with messianic and sanctifying powers to hasten the kingdom of God, not retreating from the world INTO church as sacred cult-ure or INTO themselves. However monarchic a church becomes with 'princes' and pope and reigning orthodoxies, it is not the kingdom of God. If it were, we would not pray "Thy kingdom come." "Church" exists only because God has a "kingdom come" mission that requires corporal activity, as one body. It's not given to a human heart in solitude, nor conserved unchanged as a rigid culture from ancient history; it lives in relationships. If its history is true, it's wrong to consider Christianity either entirely "personal," or in need of cultic "renewal."

Hierarchies without constraints will become corrupt.

I find it incredible you would state that what Jesus said or done is irrelevant in Christianity maybe the dissertation I read was correct and a name change to Paulian would be correct. And as you know Paul by his own admission(Galatians1;13) admitted persecuting the followers of Jesus (a Jewish sect),maybe Paul was having a bob each way and joined the bigger party as Augustine did when death approached.I read various religions and approach them as historical documents and as we know, that understanding ancient readings can be read to suit the eye of the beholder it's the old "Singer not the song" syndrome.

Dyslexia may not be on the same level as homicide and starvation, StevenStar, but it's not a "shallow" problem either for those who suffer from it. 'Glad to know you do not.

@@@@eiriamach | Apr 02, 2012, 09:43 PM EDT Maybe STEVENSTAR has a visual impairment and needs to write in capital letters to see what he types. If that's the problem and he has a PC, he might find a "Magnifier" in his "Accessories" folder, and perhaps it will solve his problem. Or maybe he has a form of dyslexia that confuses different lower-case letters. If that's the problem, he can use a word processor such as Corel's WP to type the text in all caps and then drop down his "Edit" menu and select "convert to lower case." If he doesn't have any perceptual/neurological problem and simply writes all capitals to annoy others, then I agree he should STOP doing that>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> YOUR COMMENT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARTICLE AND AS FOR ME WRITING IN CAPS, IF THATS ALL YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IN YOUR LIFE WHEN HALF THE WORLD IS STARVING AND GUN CRIMES ON THE INCREASE THEN YOU MUST LIVE A VERY SHALLOW LIFE .... (just a thought for you )!!!!!!!!!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

As always, it is the failings of the Catholic Laity that the bishops and the pope blame on the demise of the Church. They just don't get it! People are not tired of God, they are tired of the immoral behavior of their leaders and the hubris that is projected from this leadership. You must have an attractive product to sell before anyone can buy it. God has one, the Catholic Church doesn't.

People are tired because of the behavior those who claim to have an monopoly on access to G-d have shown. We can talk to G-d directly - religion is a sham, an ancient franchise that has outlived its day. Can you imagine how G-d feels, that these child abusers and denier have the balls to say that they are men of G-d? The fires of hell await.