49 Comments

• rainbowbrew | Jul 20, 2011, 05:02 PM EDT

  Oh boy now the Irishj gocernment is going to create a bunch of matrys when actually they are just as guilty as the abuser. Please though help set an example becasue we have the problem in spades over here in the USA. Thank you Ireland. I wondr why the priests are upset all they have to do is go to confession and their sins will be washed away and that should count for telling on a bad guy. Anoterh priest will be happy to give him 30 hail marys for going against the vatican, which is turning out to be quite the little nest of vermon.

• biddyerly | Jul 17, 2011, 09:59 PM EDT

  Congratulations to The Irish Government on their stand! It's about time we protected our children from the abuse of the many pedophiles including Priests that roam our country. This is a chance for the Priests and Bishops of Ireland to "do the right thing", ....the days of brushing everything under the carpet, is OVER!

• Collette2 | Jul 17, 2011, 08:57 PM EDT

  A great comment eiriamch, a sense of justice is now truly seeping through not only from the Irish aspect, hopeully it will go out ino the world. miamicanes: They know whose who in the confessional don't worry. How do you think they've known who to "pass around", including women. As far as priest's go, they seek out compassionate brothers, who know doubt has his own issues, not necessarily the same ones. In other words, the black kettle forgiving the black pot for getting burnt.

• miamicanes | Jul 17, 2011, 09:51 AM EDT

  I thought when someone goes into the confessional box there is a screen where the priest does not know who is confessing to him. Does this mean the priest has to come out of the confessional box to see who it was and then report him or her. And then again what if a mentally ill person confesses to a killing or crime that he or she didn't do.

• eiriamach | Jul 16, 2011, 09:47 AM EDT

  Collette2, with the current split between the Irish government and the Vatican, Rome does not dare issue another directive to the Irish bishops. It is no longer "highly embarrassing" to be overturned by Rome; it's honorable to have done the right thing even if it means disobedience to Vatican superiors. Under natural law and the autonomy of conscience, everyone has a moral obligation not to obey unjust laws-- and that includes unjust canon law. With a child abuser in confession, a priest need only assign as penance to report his crime to the Gardai either on his own or through the intermediary of the confessor, and then the priest must follow through. Congratulations to the Irish government for coercing obedience to civil law. No one is above the law, and canon law, along with smug Vatican officials, will adapt to this long-overdue turn of events.

• Collette2 | Jul 15, 2011, 08:18 PM EDT

  We will never see this taking off, Canon Law,(not civil law) claimed the Vatcan some time ago, where allegations and punishment are handled within the church, "must be meticulously followed" and any bishop who tries to go outside Canon Law(note again not civil law), would face the "highly embarrassing" position of being overturnd on appeal by Rome, Associated Press Dublin. It speaks volumes for not only Magee, but bishops around the world, and we have already seen that. Nothing changes or will, too many backs to cover.

• Bocktherobber | Jul 15, 2011, 05:50 PM EDT

  All this talk of confession is irrelevant. The law isn't about priests. It's about people withholding relevant information on crimes, whether that information is gained in confession, in the doctor's surgery or anywhere else. All Irish citizens will be required to disclose knowledge of crimes, no matter where they obtained that knowledge, including confession. Should they choose to reject the law of the land, they will have to face the consequences. Rome law applies to Rome. Ireland is a republic, and our law applies here.

• eiriamach | Jul 15, 2011, 04:51 PM EDT

  Colliegirl, I just now read your 1:27 PM reply to mine of 8:39 AM, and I truly cannot believe that you are female at all, but probably just another RCC zealot intent on defending the indefensible. Yes, I know about the sacramental seal, but the point is that priests and bishops use it to avoid giving evidence on crimes they know about, and they use it also to intimidate victims and witnesses who habitually obey the priest because they think he has some special moral authority. Does a nine-year-old boy know that he is still free to tell the Gardai what he has told "in confession" about being sexually molested by a priest, maybe even the priest he is confessing to? The Irish and US reports also frequently mention that the abusers have brought the children into their bedrooms by offering them special opportunities for "confession." The Irish government will no longer tolerate priests' secrecy about sexual abuse of children, even when they have heard about it only in confession. Why do you think anyone should tolerate such secrecy? Why do you try to persuade anyone that the problem of clerical abuse is not a huge problem?

• eiriamach | Jul 15, 2011, 04:30 PM EDT

  Colliegirl ("girl"? Are you old enough to be posting on the Internet? Sluts and pre-teens call themselves girls, but women rarely apply this word to themselves), Kincora's words misrepresented the dimensions of the clerical abuse problem by contrasting it with sexual abuse of children "in the home." The apparent intention was to suggest that parents rape their own children more often than priests rape children, and such a claim would be demonstrably false. You can split hairs about what-all "in the home" actually includes, but the fact remains that Roman Catholic clergy have abused an appalling number of children entrusted to their care over the decades, indeed for centuries. Parents have good reason to be outraged about it, and most people have little tolerance for minimizing its moral impact.

• Tomassotucson | Jul 15, 2011, 02:03 PM EDT

  Do you believe that the bishops should be held accountablefor their past actions? Do you feel comfortable knowing that these same people are in comple control of the Catholic Church?

• Colliegirl | Jul 15, 2011, 01:41 PM EDT

  bromeliads, What breach of confidentiality did the pope make. What did he reveal that he could only have known from confession and in no other way? And are you aware that the penitent can give permission to the priest to reveal something that was confessed?

• Colliegirl | Jul 15, 2011, 01:37 PM EDT

  eiriamach, abuse in the home includes abuse by other family members such as siblings, uncles, and cousins. By limiting your figures to fathers you are juggling figures to make a point. Try comparing abuse by religious persons to abuse by others such as teachers, medical personnel, youth club leaders, physicians, etc. Any position in which a person with this proclivity will come in contact with children or teens offers an opportunity to abusers. I disagree that religious professionals are more likely to abuse children than are others. The fact that some priests, supposedly committed to God, did such a terrible thing makes it more shocking and a betrayal of the trust of us all. The bishops who covered it up should never have done so and were criminally ignorant to believe the priest's promise of repentance.

• Colliegirl | Jul 15, 2011, 01:27 PM EDT

  "How many times do you read of victims and their family members saying that the bishops and priests they reported the abuse to encouraged them to re-tell their stories in confession, under a sacramental seal? If they were lured into doing that, they gave the priest or bishop an excuse for never speaking about the crime to law enforcement officials." You totally misunderstand or misrepresent the concept of the seal of confession. Even if the sin is confessed, if the priest also hears of it outside of the confessional he is free to talk about it, just not use anything he has heard exclusively in confession. Also, a person cannot confess another person's sin! The fact that a VICTIM, not the abuser, retells what happened to him in the confessional doesn't put it under the seal of confession. And you say the victims already told their stories to a bishop or priest outside of confession. What they had already told doesn't come under the seal of confession.

• eiriamach | Jul 15, 2011, 11:28 AM EDT

  kincora writes, "only a small amount of child sexual abuse is caused by priests. By far the greatest amount is caused in the home." Kincora's statement is false, according to the SAVI Report, available on the Internet (Use a search engine to find it). Irish physicians surveyed patients who were victims of sexual abuse. According to their report, "Fathers constituted 2.5% of all abusers with clerical/ religious ministers or clerical/ religious teachers constituting 3.2% of abusers." Children are safer at home with their fathers than in church or rectory with priests. The report also helps explain why so few victims report the abuse to Gardai (and therefore why it's necessary to have laws requiring adults to report their knowledge of abuse).

• bromeliads | Jul 15, 2011, 10:52 AM EDT

  What does the pope say about his breach of confidentiality for the seal of confession?

• eiriamach | Jul 15, 2011, 08:39 AM EDT

  Read the Ryan Report and the other reports on sexual abuse by religious. How many times do you read of victims and their family members saying that the bishops and priests they reported the abuse to encouraged them to re-tell their stories in confession, under a sacramental seal? If they were lured into doing that, they gave the priest or bishop an excuse for never speaking about the crime to law enforcement officials. By this strategy, the confessional became one of the Church's most devious and self-serving means of protecting its own criminals and continuing its criminal activity with impunity. Victims continued to suffer in neglect, and taxpayers are now carrying the financial burden of compensation for the Church's crimes. How can anyone support a strategy that renders the worst of criminals immune from prosecution?

• eiriamach | Jul 15, 2011, 08:20 AM EDT

  This article is about the crime of abuse of CHILDREN! And some people commenting below think that a priest has the duty to protect a sexual predator from prosecution and thus allow the criminal to continue abusing? How can a priest give absolution to an abuser who refuses to take responsibility for his crime and refuses to accept the punishment of the law for the harm it has caused? What would be the point of confessing such a crime if the abuser insists that the priest protect him from prosecution? Is the sin forgivable when the sinner refuses the punishment? If that is how you want the sacrament of reconciliation to work, then face the truth about yourselves: your Catholic religion is your shield against prosecution for criminal activity! If that's what you are saying-- and it certainly looks like that-- then it's time to outlaw not only the conniving of priests and bishops with abusers, but also the religion itself. No state can afford to grant exemption from criminal prosecution on the basis of religious affiliation. Being a citizen of the state entails moral responsibility, for priests as well as for everyone else. In the US, bishops have been proclaiming their "Zero tolerance" for sexual abuse of children while they have been lobbying state governments NOT to extend the time for filing charges of sexual abuse! "God forgive me, for I repent, but BTW, you must help me escape from prosecution for my crime" -- this is the stance of the American bishops and of those who want an exemption from moral responsibility for priests. Sheer lunacy!

• Colliegirl | Jul 14, 2011, 11:21 PM EDT

  Per the article, in a 10 year period there were 9 alleged instances of abuse that were not reported to the authorities and 6 that were reported by Bishop Magee. Certainly 15 allegations of abuse in 10 years is 15 too many. But still, not "thousands". And likely those allegations involved fewer than 15 priests.

• Colliegirl | Jul 14, 2011, 11:08 PM EDT

  Oh, sorry. Perhaps they were speaking of the situation in Ireland and Australia. Are those the countries where thousands of former priests are a hazard to children's safety?

• Colliegirl | Jul 14, 2011, 11:05 PM EDT

  The claim that thousands of priests are now roaming the country preying on children isn't accurate. First, judging from my diocese, a large percentage of the priests accused are now dead and can't be punished or defend themselves from the accusations. Those who have left the church indeed have now been reported to the police. It is up to the police and courts to register them as sex offenders after they have been found guilty and jailed.

• Colliegirl | Jul 14, 2011, 10:58 PM EDT

  In regards to this article... How will the prosecutor obtain proof that a priest was told about sexual abuse in confession? The priest won't tell. The perpetrator is unlikely to do so. So how could a priest be prosecuted for this 'crime'? Of course they could bug the confessionals but then they'd have the tape and there would be no necessity for the priest to inform on someone. That's why I said it's stupid. It's meaningless. And the posts by Tomassotucson and Eccles64 railing against the bishops' past practices, which were terrible, are not comments on this article at all and do not reflect the current practices, at least in the U.S. where the church now has a zero tolerance policy and does immediately inform the police of any charges made against a priest.

• Tomassotucson | Jul 14, 2011, 08:52 PM EDT

  Let's face it, thousands of priest that sexually abused children are roaming this country because the bishops that secretly moved them around to protect them finally had to get rid of them. But they allowed them to leave the ministry without having to register as sex offenders. Now they are your problems so they believe but mot so. You see when they abuse again and get caught, the lawyers will fault the bishops for allowing them to leave the church without having to register as sex offenders and omce again the pay,obey and pray suckers will have to foot the bill. Wake up Church goer, as long as you continue to pay homage to the bishops your going to continue to pay and pay and pay.

• eccles64 | Jul 14, 2011, 08:43 PM EDT

  About time. I am a bedraggled refugee from the "Holy" Roman Catholic Church, now a Proud Atheist. In Australia where I live the cases pf Pedophilia in the RCC are numerous and the suffering of t he victims is horrendous. Some have suicided. The Roman Catholic hierarchy does NOTHING to help the victims and they do not hand the culprits over to the Police

• Bocktherobber | Jul 14, 2011, 08:32 PM EDT

  Catholic priests are free to accept the law of the land or not, just like the rest of us. And just like the rest of us, they'll go to jail if they don't. It's very simple. What's hard to understand about that?

• Colliegirl | Jul 14, 2011, 06:15 PM EDT

  And the courts will find out about this criminal concealing of a penitent's sins in what way? It's a stupid stupid law. But if it ever came right down to it the priest would have to keep his mouth shut and do the time. No choice, really.

• irishamerica46 | Jul 14, 2011, 05:11 PM EDT

  So it's only Catholics who are guity of abuse! Ignorance is bliss.

• blessusnsaveus | Jul 14, 2011, 05:03 PM EDT

  @ Trealach. The Sacrament of Reconciliation IS a man made law!

• LoyalCitizen | Jul 14, 2011, 05:00 PM EDT

  Should they jail Politicians, Judges, Barristers, Solicitors, Garda and Civil Servants who do not report the systematic fraud of social welfare recipients.

• Tomassotucson | Jul 14, 2011, 04:33 PM EDT

  Priests faild to idendify sex abusers even if they lived in the sam building. Why?, because they were concerned about loosing their cozy comfy little corner of the world and or afraid the bishop would find out what they did. Confession was a way out for the sex abuser and also a way for the Priest hearing the confession. It sort of took him off the hook and eased his conscience ??? Concern for the child being abused was his 2nd, no 3rd concern, well maybe he wasn't concered at all.

• AngelPrecious | Jul 14, 2011, 03:34 PM EDT

  Wow, I don't know much about Irish politics but this law is definitely one for the books. There isn't a chance in hell that this law will be accepted by Catholic priests nor should it be. I used to deeply respect Ireland's Catholic stance in many laws. Seems that Ireland is becoming overrun by heathens. Sad!

• JeanneTherese | Jul 14, 2011, 03:30 PM EDT

  What is happening in this World? The Devil is so strong. Confession is a private talk with the priests and they should NEVER reveal what we tell them.The law should stay out of the Confessional Box.. period. We just had a murderer of a 2 year old child (Casey Anthony)go free here in Florida. She stands to make lots of money for this dreadful act...this justice system has gone haywire....God bless us all when the State wants priests to reveal what was said in the confessional. No Way!! The wayward priests should be punished but what the State wants from innocent priests is wrong!

• Bocktherobber | Jul 14, 2011, 01:54 PM EDT

  There's only one law in Ireland and that's the law made by our national parliament. The regulations of Rome have the same standing in Irish law as the rules of a golf club. Too many priests and bishops up to now have treated Canon Law as superior, concealing the most appalling crimes, but those days are now well and truly ended.

• KathyCallahan | Jul 14, 2011, 11:36 AM EDT

  Speaking of Whitey. I know this much is absolutely true from a wellspring of direct experience. Whitey Bulger spoke truth to power when he told 'officers' on the plane toUching down in Boston 2 weeks ago: and yes I have been back to Boston over the years. Those who claim that I was not back are......

• whiteycat | Jul 14, 2011, 11:26 AM EDT

  I think it should be a global law. Bless the Irish.

• adrienrain | Jul 14, 2011, 11:24 AM EDT

  This practically destroys the idea of confession, doesn't it? Well, I've always (since I left Catholicism at about age 12) marveled at the idea of confession, as well as some of the elaborate fasting and prayer rituals practiced by many faiths. I see those weird things as tests of the power of a religious sect. Think what the fear of hell can do. It can get people to tell their most intimate secrets. It can get the poor to give money to the rich. It can persuade people to travel abroad to kill people in great crusades of 'faith.' It can even get people to kill their neighbors or family members.

• Trealach | Jul 14, 2011, 11:20 AM EDT

  The Sacrament of Reconciliation is above ALL laws made by man. I suppose the idiots who are introducing this unworkable law will also insist on summonsing Christ as a witness to the statement made in the confessional. Good luck on that one - rofl!! The seal of the Sacrament is Sacrosanct and will NEVER be broken. What a pack of morons we have governing us, and to think that this new legislation is being introduced by a Minister for Justice who is a Jew. Oh well, let the comedy begin!

• kincora | Jul 14, 2011, 11:10 AM EDT

  The new law will of course apply to everybody else as well. Why single out priests? All the garish headlines should not blind us to the fact that only a small amount of child sexual abuse is caused by priests. By far the greatest amount is caused in the home.

• rugbyplayer | Jul 14, 2011, 10:46 AM EDT

  Will the hounding of every Catholic priest world-wide for alleged child abuse ever cease? Isn't a lot of it a farce and a way to make bucks for the accusers and their lawyers? Must every pat on the head or the butt be construed as child molestation? Give us a break!

• mbernice | Jul 14, 2011, 10:44 AM EDT

  The Church failed but so did Irish Society, just as American Society, German, etc. They can pass as many laws as they want but criminalizing something to prevent it - doesn't prevent it. Child abuse will continue until we hold each other accountable on a daily basis for our interpersonal violence.

• fmcevoy | Jul 14, 2011, 10:30 AM EDT

  Actually, in the US, confidentiality for counselors and the like is not like the confessional. If I, as a counselor, hear a client is hurting someone or himself, I must report it.

• fmcevoy | Jul 14, 2011, 10:29 AM EDT

  What other sins aren't covered by the Seal of Confession? It would be good to know.

• KathyCallahan | Jul 14, 2011, 10:21 AM EDT

  At last, Irish Law Makers are setting a new legally enforceable standard of behavior that requires priests who are on the receiving end of child/teenager abuse complaint and or a criminal confession by a priest in a confessional; knowledge of UNCHECKED predator on the lose: will soon be required by law to call Garda. No more hush hush drive by by crime scenes whereby 'the Bishop of Cloyne or the likes of Cardinal Bernhard Law' are deemed to be the sole human in total and complete charge of handling pedophile priests and crimes against children/teenagers from start to finish. From bravely reporting allegations to unseemly relocations and play book talking points 'shut up' cover ups. No more. Alas it's the law. Activists and bloggers for justice and preventing religious child abuse have been working on this issue for years.

• Carroll09 | Jul 14, 2011, 10:17 AM EDT

  Despite the points already raised about the difficulty of proving what was said in the confessional (or any other situation where there is a seal - medicine, law, etc.), the law immediately shows a major flaw: the only exception, according to Minister Frances Fitzgerald, will be not reporting the crime because the victim does not want to involve the Gardai! So, someone confesses the crime of abuse in the confessional but he can only report it to the police if he is sure that the victim is ok with him doing so. How is he supposed to find that out? Is he supposed to coax the abuser into naming their victims? It is simply unfeasible and unrealistic. We may well find that priests, lawyers, doctors, etc. will be damned if they do and damned if they don't - face prosecution if they don't report or face legal action from a victim who didn't want the matter brought before the civil authorities to begin with.

• Dompedro | Jul 14, 2011, 10:04 AM EDT

  according to Newrone, we should also lock up the doctors and lawyers --- would be a funny country

• IowaMike | Jul 14, 2011, 09:43 AM EDT

  This is but another example of government, desperate to seen as taking strong action, coming up with another completely feckless policy. How does Shatter suggest that he can inject himself into the confessional. Just how does he think he can enforce this law in a classical he-said - he said scenerio? The last time I checked only the priest, the penitent and God are in the confessional. The only way this can be done is by bugging the confessional box or wire a fake penitent and try to entrap the priest. Unbelievable.

• Newrone | Jul 14, 2011, 09:42 AM EDT

  @etighe: So if you're a priest and your next door neighbor tells you "Forgive me father but I've been raping my daughter for the last few years - Oh but this is a confession so don't tell the Police", you'd be "proud to do time for your faith" rather than act on behalf of the victim?
  
  That, my friend, is nothing short of plain sick!

• joeustace | Jul 14, 2011, 09:39 AM EDT

  Easy, big fella. Irish central is just reporting the news. DOn't kill the messenger.

• Newrone | Jul 14, 2011, 09:37 AM EDT

  "Under canon law, priests face excommunication from the Catholic church if they reveal anything they hear in the confessional box."
  
  Just another clear indictment of the CC's role as an accessory to crime and to child abuse in particular. Any other organization with similar internal rules would be banned in any a society that respects justice & human rights. Lock 'em up.

• etighe1130 | Jul 14, 2011, 09:16 AM EDT

  Another government overreach...how stupid is that law??? How are you going to prove what was said in the confessional. If I'm the priest, I would be proud to do time for my faith. No wonder Ireland is on the skids, you've turned away from God. I wish that I had Irish Central in print form so I could line my cat's litter box with it. What a rag!!!