Ireland’s Minister for Justice, Alan Shatter, has apologized for the way the 10,000 Irishmen who fought Hitler were treated after World War II. The minister also said Ireland’s stance of “neutrality” during the war was morally bankrupt.
Shatter, who is Jewish, gave a landmark speech just days before the Holocaust Memorial Day (Friday, 27th January). His speech was part of the launch of “The Shoah in Europe” exhibition in the Department of Justice and Equality, in Dublin.
He admitted that the Irish regime in the 1930s denied visas to Jews desperately trying to flee Nazi occupied Europe.
Shatter said, “the doors to this state were kept firmly closed to German Jewish families trying to flee” commenting on the anti-Semitic Berlin ambassador Charles Bewley.
He explained “The advice of the anti-Semitic then Irish Ambassador in Berlin, Charles Bewley, that Ireland should be protected from the contamination that would result from granting residential visas to Jewish refugees resulted in practically all visa requests being refused.”
He also apologized for how the Irish soldiers who returned from fighting in World War II were treated. He suggested that as many as 10,000 were barred from getting jobs and state pensions. They were condemned to poverty and stigma. It is likely that these men will now receive a full pardon.
“I believe it is also appropriate that we revisit the manner in which they were treated whilst also remembering that those who served in our Defence Forces throughout that time performed a crucial national duty. It is untenable that we commemorate those who died whilst continuing to ignore the manner in which our State treated the living, in the period immediately after World War II, who returned to our State having fought for freedom and democracy. This is an issue to which I hope to return in my role as Minister for Defence later this year,” the Minister said.”
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Read More:
Irishmen who fought for Britain against Hitler may be pardoned by government
Irish Government confirms pardon for Irish deserters who fought Hitler
Why Irish soldiers who fought against Hitler and the Nazis had to hide their medals
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The Minister stated that the administration at the time, led by Eamon de Valera, has “lost its moral compass”.
He said, “This position was maintained from 1939 to 1945 and we should no longer be in denial that, in the context of the Holocaust, Irish neutrality was a principle of moral bankruptcy. This moral bankruptcy was compounded by the then Irish Government who, after the war, only allowed an indefensibly small number who survived the concentration camps to settle permanently in Ireland whilst refusing entry and permanent residence to many more and also by the visit of President De Valera to then German Ambassador Edouard Hemple in 1945 to express his condolences on the death of Hitler. At a time when neutrality should have ceased to be an issue the Government of this State utterly lost it’s moral compass.”
Shatter added that their decisions were continuing to affect the Irish today. The Dublin South MP said that Ireland needed to break away from this past.
He continued, “In the midst of the ongoing fiscal and banking crisis that currently impacts on the nations of Europe, including our State, we should never lose sight of the extraordinary contribution of the European Union in providing the political architecture for peace and stability in Europe. As Europeans we must all ensure that in addressing vital issues of immediate concern that affect the lives of tens of millions, it is the European ideals of peace, cooperation and solidarity and not extreme nationalism nor narrow domestic political concerns which motivate our actions.”
According to reports in the Daily Mail, the minister will now be advised by the Attorney General of Ireland, Máire Whelan, on how to proceed with pardoning those Irish soldiers from World War II. It is thought that only 100 of these men are still alive.
Although many families of these men look forward to, and welcome, the pardon, some believe it’s too little too late. Speaking to the Irish Independent, Paddy Reid, the son of one of these men, said this pardon comes too late for his father.
His father, Paddy Snr, joined the Allied Forces in 1941, aged 17, along with his uncle Freddie.
Paddy Snr wanted to make money so that he could start a family but he also felt that he should stand up against the Nazis having heard of the bombing of Guernica, Spain.
He was blacklisted in Dublin when he returned from the war. He was prevented from working from 1946 to 1961.
"The man fought bravely, he was well respected in his community, but he wasn't allowed to work, to make a living or recover from the mental trauma that such a war had on a young man.
"There is no comfort in a pardon for these men, most of them died a long time ago.
"I always knew he was a good man, they didn't have to write a law to tell me that. These men fought to protect us from the Nazis. We'd all be speaking German if these men hadn't gone out to fight".
Read Minister Alan Shatter’s full speech here.
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.owainglyndwr16 | Jan 31, 2013, 02:24 AM EST
Alan Shatter was talking out of his Hat http://archive.jta.org/article/1944/10/26/2865213/irish-minister-in-berlin-intervenes-for-jews-imprisoned-in-oswiecim-camp
donwreford | Nov 23, 2012, 06:30 AM EST
To demonize Ireland with reference to neutrality is ironic, the British Establishment whom have treated its brotherhood in terms geography and what should have evolved towards a benefit to both countries, the violence perpetrated by in the main a group of men as in the institute of Parliament, those in principle those in the House of Lords, I suggest are criminally negligent in the evil inflicted on a nation that had not the same resources and power of this sector mentioned of Britain. The WW2 become a enigma, did the British Establishment expect loyalty that had treated the Irish as a enemy as in war? it is time to be truthful as to the relationship of history between the British and Irish, I expect this vindictive and hateful character of the British Elite will pass into a history of darkness and some light will emerge in time to heal the wounds inflicted upon a great nation, Ireland.
Sparklet | May 24, 2012, 12:47 PM EDT
Ireland didn't behave like a neutral country. Dev played it perfectly imo...officially neutral but behind the scenes assisting the allies.
esatdigiwank | Feb 01, 2012, 07:20 AM EST
While we're on the topic of Irish newspapers, Joycean try reading Examiner, Times, Star (if you really have to), regional rags but not a conservative mouthpiece paper which panders to devotees of the Soldiers of INFAMY (FF). That which has cast a negative aspersion on attempts by the Educ. Minister to diminute the power of the RC church over the education system for example. And for its foreign news articles copies and pastes from the London Telegraph. I don't need to name it, its more than conspicuous by its absence from my rant.
wizardofoz | Jan 31, 2012, 05:53 PM EST
And pray tell, how does the Jew propose Deve could have defended the Free State from the German Luftwaffe? I doubt shouting insults would have been much of a defense! And that’s about all they could have done. The British could hardly defend themselves never mind the Free State. Deve made the correct call.
seanomelb | Jan 31, 2012, 05:44 PM EST
I wonder does Mr Shatter have the same concerns for the rape and pillage of the Palestinian people.
Sparklet | Jan 31, 2012, 03:46 PM EST
Years ago Britain had a vile empire and rode roughshod over the rest of the world. Those days - and people - are gone. I think the USA carries that mantle these days. Lostgold comes across as yet another wannabe Irish who can't drag himself into the 21st century. If he's American, he hasn't got a clue. If he's Irish, he doesn't speak for the majority of the Irish people.
DanOLoingsigh | Jan 31, 2012, 06:19 AM EST
sirpete - I like your hindsight quote...undermined a little by your hindsight take on Versailles...not sure how neutral we are now? With military deployed in Afghanistan in support of ISAF? DeV was right in '39, but could/should have reviewed his decision when USA came into war...opened the west coast ports airfields for US use...would have been a great boost to development, if nothing else...still he wasn't the most far sighted of people...Shatter, like everyone else, is entitled to his view on this...
seanomelbourne | Jan 30, 2012, 06:10 PM EST
lostgold should have mentioned that the USA was stolen from its original inhabitants,or is he in denial.Joycean "th" in gaelic has a soft "H" sound and does not exist as it is pronounced in english.Your claim "dat" it is a matter of educaion is a little "intellectual snobbery. When Dutch or Germans who use english as their second language fail to pronounce the "w" sound are they uneducated?
sirpeter | Jan 30, 2012, 03:34 PM EST
Hindsight is a fools foresight.If anyone was morally right to stay out of WW2 it was Ireland.Treaty of Versailles Article 231, commonly known as the "Guilt Clause" or the "War Guilt Clause", is the first article in Part VIII, "Reparations" of the Treaty of Versailles.By blaming only Germany for causing the war,Article 231 has been cited as one of the causes that led to the rise of national socialism in Germany.Like Saddam whoever helped put him in power should get him out.~Nawin'to do with us Irish biy.We have our own problems.Keep your hands off Irish neutrality Alan Shi*ter.It's not for sale at any price.Ye have sold the country out.Government of this State utterly lost it’s moral compass.”So right on that one.
Kilsally | Jan 30, 2012, 02:11 PM EST
lostgold - you are misinformed if you think Britian is blocking a United Ireland. 2012 is the centenary of the signing of the Ulster Covenant and the pre cursor of Ulster Protestants forming the Ulster Volunteer Force under the command of Dubliner Edward Carson to fight either England or the South - the outbreak of WW1 saw the UVF and YCV as well as nationalist Irish volunteers subsumed into the British Army to fight with the Allies as the 36th Ulster Division and the 16th Irish Division respectively which effectively averted civil war albeit the IRA went for the Easter Rising in 1916 whilst everyone else was preoccupied with the war. The Good Friday Agreement places the sovereignty of Northern Ireland solely in the hands of the Northern Irish people with provisions for a referendum.
eiriamach | Jan 30, 2012, 09:49 AM EST
Joycean writes, "Probably most Irish-Americans who follow Irish Central are my age and follow it for the same reason." Probably right, Joycean. You could be my twin, same profession, same age range, same trudging through boggy Irish cemeteries looking for ancestors' tombstones, same searches for records and descendants of family, same genealogy/history interests. The only difference is the recession sent me back to work. Visits to Ireland have introduced me to much Irish culture, however, the kind that endures, that changes over time but is not just a stereotype. My father used to scoff at the tin-pan alley songs that passed for "Irish" in America, while he hummed Irish language folk tunes he learned from his mother (he never learned Gaeilge, so he couldn't sing the words, but he knew what was authentic). Americans have a role to play in supporting Irish culture, whether we can say something meaningful about Irish history in Ireland, Shatter, current events, etc., or not.
IrelandNorth | Jan 30, 2012, 09:00 AM EST
Desertion is desertion, even if one did so to assist Mother Theresa in Calcutta. Pardoning 5,000 Defence Force Deserters to the British Army during The Emergency will incriminate the 35,000 service personnel who stayed behind to defend the state. Mr. Shatter should not confuse his role as Irish Min. for Defence and his understandable reaction to the Holocause as an Irish Jew.
joycean | Jan 30, 2012, 08:03 AM EST
ciara,I am 65 years old, a retired teacher and university instructor, a business owner, with a daughter your age. The only reason I've gone to Ireland has been to search family records in the National Registry Office, wander through churchyards looking at gravestones, and in church records, and meet with some of the descendants of smy grandpaarents'siblings. I am into geneology, not Irish current events. Probably most Irish-Americans who follow Irish Central are my age and follow it for the same reason.
ciaradexy | Jan 30, 2012, 05:36 AM EST
Joycean, its the culture of your Irish relatives from generations ago! if you want to know whats happening in Ireland NOW rather than the twee 1950s version of Ireland run by the church, if you are even remotely interested in Ireland, read an Irish newspaper. If I wanted to read about fake America Id read Fox news.
lostgold | Jan 29, 2012, 09:24 PM EST
Allen 07. A few years ago the Irish government celebrated if my memory is correct the 165 anniversary of the Great Irish Famine this happpened when all of Ireland was part of the Union. The British ambassador could not show his face on stage he was so ashamed in front of the audience with what his nation had neglected to do in Ireland but the Chinese ambassador could knowing what can happen to people under British imperialism. IN 1999 the British pulled out of Hong Kong. A few weeks ago the first American troops were dispatched to Australia to set up a permanent reservoir of troops against China flexing its muscle in the South China Sea. Can't you guess what may be on the horizon for you higher apes. In case you don't know it Australia and New Zealand were also stolen from its original inhabitants by your nation just like Northern Ireland. I wouldn't bet too much on your future kid.As for England it should do the rest of mankind a favor and vomit itself off the Earth. You befoul the rest of mankind with your presence.
joycean | Jan 29, 2012, 07:01 PM EST
Ciera, I first started reading The Irish Voice and Irish America in the 1990s, the print publications this web site is based on. You say the articles "seem to be written by Americans." They ARE. They always have been. this is an AMERICAN-based website. Twenty years ago, Niall O-Dowd started the print versions to keep Irish Americans in touch with what was going on in places like New York City. It is about OUR culture.
seanomelbourne | Jan 29, 2012, 05:22 PM EST
It's simplistic to say that Ireland was morally bankrupt almost 80 years after the event. MR shatter must then condemn every neutral country as morally bankrupt for not taking his side in the conflict. Dev made the right decision in remaing neutral. There were other factors why Ireland remained neutral,remember it was only 18 years since the civil war and the turmoil which preceded the civli war.Mr Shatter is not an honest broker here.
allan07 | Jan 29, 2012, 04:26 PM EST
lostgold Ireland is morally and financially bankrupt. Lots of young people are leaving guess were for - London. So if Irelands so great why are they emigrating to England? We in England (I am from Northern Ireland) know that your argument is dead. Being Northern Irish and British as I 100% am I do not want to see a United Ireland. The people are not United. Its rubbish to force feed your nationalist views down the people of Northern Irelands throats. I am British 1st and Northern Irish 2nd and that ever ever going to change this side of Hell freezing over. The ROI of recently got huge loans from Britain so you should never bite of the hand that feeds you. Wake up to reality.
ciaradexy | Jan 29, 2012, 03:55 PM EST
Ours is 'Irish-American' (whether the Irish like that hyphenated description or not). Unlike you, who were born into Irish culture, we chose it, a little of it or a lot of it. This 'culture' that youre speaking of is a culture that is long gone. I know Americans hate that but we have moved on. Its is no long the 19th or early 20th century and Im glad Ireland has moved on and developed and no longer is state run by the church. The biggest stereotype of Oirishness are Americans with Irish background. Irish people hate stereotypes in fact most people hate stereotypes. They are demeaning to the nation in question. Theres only a couple of 'big-mouthed Yanks' on here but the rest just seem to sit by and keep their gobs shut, saying nothing of any substance! Articles on irish central seem to be written by Americans! Why not read irish newspapoer websites to find out exactly whats happening instead of the version written by people who live 5000 miles away who have probably never been here.
eiriamach | Jan 29, 2012, 03:38 PM EST
ciaradexy, no need for apology. I agree with most of what you wrote. And I am genuinely sad about the big-mouthed Yanks. Not many Americans know enough Irish history to be able to "speak up in defense of Ireland or her people," and some who claim to be know-it-alls know very little, with lots of bias mixed in with the little they know. A problem with us Americans is that we can't shut up even when we know next-to-nothing about the topic. Scothtommy writes that IC has "*now*"?? descended to vulgar mudslinging. I guess he hasn't been around here very long! I try to remember that most of the comments just play on the surface, and beneath the surface, people really can learn when someone else points out that they got it wrong. "See, to us, those people are American not Irish." To this I say that most Americans have (need) a cultural identification besides "American," thus the hyphenated words like 'Asian-American,' 'African-American,' etc. Ours is 'Irish-American' (whether the Irish like that hyphenated description or not). Unlike you, who were born into Irish culture, we chose it, a little of it or a lot of it. And reading articles on IC is one of the ways we develop it. Immigration over the centuries has made Irish a global culture. Ain't nothing no one can do 'bout that!
Sparklet | Jan 29, 2012, 03:25 PM EST
Lostgold - what do you think would happen if Britain gave up the north? Serious question. I think its a case of being stuck with a situation they'd rather not have, but do, thanks to the actions of the past. There's comparative peace in N.I. now. There wouldn't be if the majority were forced out of the UK. I believe it will happen eventually, but naturally.
lostgold | Jan 29, 2012, 03:18 PM EST
Irelands neutrality in the 2nd world war was not necessarily anti-Semitic. It was directed against Britain who was blocking and still is blocking the Island from being united. Ireland is a valuable piece of real estate. I can remember as a child on my grandfathers farm watching American troops playing their war games preparing for the D-Day landing. Everybody thinks they only practiced in England proper prior to D-day but no Ireland was and still is part of the U.K.The European continent can be invaded from Ireland in case an enemy nation occupies England.So Mr Shatter has every right to criticize Ireland for its neutrality but has he criticized or have any Finnish Jews criticized Finland for its active participation in the war on Hitlers side. Finnish troops fought beside German troops at Leningrad and Stalingrad while many Irish boys crossed the Irish sea and fought in the British army on the Allied side
Scotchtommy | Jan 29, 2012, 02:47 PM EST
OK Guys, I quit.This used to a site for intelligent ,civilized people to have a proper exchange of views.But now it has descended to vulgar mudslinging.(OK I slung a bit of mud myself-but only for fun -KIDDING.Apologies to all.I''l buy youse a drinK if ever I meet youse.)So I won't comment again till we get back to a proper topic.There will now be a short pause while you all type "Fe-k off you Protestant/Fenian/Brit/Mick/Bogtrotter/ScotsIrish ar-shole/American/Redneck" There will be a prize for guesssing how much of the above is in me - a clue a bit of most.
ciaradexy | Jan 29, 2012, 10:25 AM EST
eiriamach, Im sorry, I apologise. As I have American relatives I know not everyone is like how I described but on this site, there doesnt seem to be very many Americans on here who will actually speak up in defense of ireland or her people. It just seems to be the Irish who will. But that is a view held here of Americans with irish background. If you have a look at posts on this topic, the only people who bring up Shatter being a jew are Americans! There are no irish on here Jew bashing! It isnt an issue in Ireland so why it had to be mentioned in this article is beyond me! ''I've known Irish Americans who were adults during WWII who put up with verbal abuse from other Americans because of Ireland's neutrality at that time.''. See, to us, those people are American not Irish so those abusing are the same as the abused. There is no difference. Dev should have taken refugees in and he didnt but we have learned from history which is why now, we take in refugees so at least we have learned from our mistakes.
Collette2 | Jan 29, 2012, 04:24 AM EST
ScotchTom. I appreciate your integrity, in particular your earlier comments.
pilib04 | Jan 28, 2012, 09:27 PM EST
By the by, if Alan Shatter is trying to find an anti-semite he need only look to one of the founders and first leader of his Fine Gael party. The "Blue Shirt" Eoin O'Duffy. O'Duffy led a group of Irish Fascists and Nazis to Spain to fight on the side of the Fascists. He self-described himself as "the third most important man in Europe" behind Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini. This founder of Fine Gael actually offered to form an Irish Volunteer Legion to fight for Hitler in 1943.
pilib04 | Jan 28, 2012, 09:14 PM EST
Chief Rabbi of Ireland from 1917-1937 (sometimes referred to as the Sinn Fein Rebbe) was Rabbi Yitzhak (Isaac) Herzog. Herzog was a close friend and confidant of Eamonn De Valera. He was chief rabbi of Israel when Dev made his first visit in 1950. Herzog accompanied Dev for throughout Dev's visit. His son, Chaim Herzog would go on to become the first Irish President of Israel(1983-93).
pilib04 | Jan 28, 2012, 08:54 PM EST
Jews have always had leadership positions in Fianna Fail since the founding of the party in 1926. Robert Briscoe was a founding member of Fianna Fail. Robert was a close confidant of Eamon de Valera. His son Ben followed in his father's footsteps and (like his father) became Lord Mayor of Dublin and a Fianna Fail leader. Dev's 1937 Irish Constitution specifically protected Jews in Ireland. Dev overruled the Department of Justice on a number of occasions regarding Jewish emigres to Ireland particularly after WW2. Anyone who continues the calumny that Dev was anti-semitic need only visit the Eamon de Valera forest near Nazareth which was planted in recognition of his consistent support of Ireland's Jews. This whole nonsense that Dev was anti-semitic is just that, nonsense.
pilib04 | Jan 28, 2012, 08:29 PM EST
I cannot justify Dev's denial of passports to Jews trying to leave Germany no more so than FDR's denial of passports to Jews trying to leave Germany. To say that the policy was morally bankrupt is quite possible. However, the United States had a much greater opportunity to absorb the Jews trying to flee Hitler than the Ireland. The USA did abolutely nothing. In fact when the SS St. Louis tried to dock in the U.S. and Canada it was denied. The 900 plus Jews on the ship were forced to return to Europe where over 200 were exterminated in the death camps.
eiriamach | Jan 28, 2012, 05:08 PM EST
It's sad but understandable that Ciaradexy has this impression: "another Oirish American who likes to demonise anyone who isnt white, irish and catholic. Im really glad you and the other nazis on this site arent irish because you make Americans look bad while the Irish are just glad youre not one of us and are expressing random views from yanks." We're not all Scotchtommys or Nazis, racists, anti-Semitic, anti-Protestant, Islamophobes, etc. IC writers sometimes stir it up, like the writer of this news article, Cathy Hayes, adding in the fact that Shatter is a Jew. She must know she's tempting American anti-Semites while many who aren't Jewish share Shatter's pro-European-Union and pro-WWII Allies views. Ciaradexy, I've known Irish Americans who were adults during WWII who put up with verbal abuse from other Americans because of Ireland's neutrality at that time. It was difficult to justify neutrality in the US, where millions of Jews came when they fled the Nazis. Have you ever heard Liam Clancey singing this David Wilcox song: "My father never put his parachute on/In the pacific back in World War II/He said he'd rather go down in familiar flame/ Than get lost in that endless blue/ Well some of that blue got into my eyes/ And we never stopped fighting that war"? Really, we're fighting it again, endless, right!
Realist | Jan 28, 2012, 04:30 PM EST
sirpeter: "Not one Irish life is worth 6 million Jews"? If that was meant to be a joke, it was in extremely bad taste old son. I do not believe any decent person would have written that. Do you understand?
Sparklet | Jan 28, 2012, 02:30 PM EST
I'm not sure Scotch is even that - maybe a Scottish ancestry? Because no Scot I know applies the word Scotch to a person. Scotch is whisky. The term is Scots or Scottish. Comes across as someone far removed from the reality of today, and assuming that attitudes in Ireland haven't moved on. If he's actually in Ireland I apologise - but would say that he obviously moves in far different circles to me!
ciaradexy | Jan 28, 2012, 01:25 PM EST
Scotch, Being Irish I dont actually have to spend all my time reading about Irish history. I can leave my house, got to the nearest museum, park or just walk around various parts of my country and learn in addition to what I did in school. See, I live my culture and Im making my own Irish history while you read the Fox news version of Irish events. By the way, the Scotch part of your name indicates your family were planted here and land was taken from Irish and given to your ancestors. Youre just as guilty as those you chastise.
ciaradexy | Jan 28, 2012, 01:06 PM EST
I didnt use the specifically 'Jews' because it wasnt just Jews the nazis murdered! Remember that Hitler was a christian. Catholic in fact. My family have always been in Ireland and I can trace them right back for about 7 generations. They are from all over ireland and Id rather believe what I have heard from them over the years rather than another Oirish American who likes to demonise any one who isnt white, irish and catholic. Im really glad you and the other nazis on this site arent irish because you make Americans look bad while the Irish are just glad youre not one of us and are expressing random views from yanks. Phew for that!
Scotchtommy | Jan 28, 2012, 12:28 PM EST
Apologies to Mary Mcswiney - a woman for whom I had tremendous respect -she held her repunblican views till the end.When I said she shut up - I seem to remember that she died around mid 1942 - OK - a slur on her -I apologise to her memory - as to the rest of my post -if you don't like it Pog ma Hone
joycean | Jan 28, 2012, 12:26 PM EST
Other neutral Eiropean countries, like Switzerland, took in many Jews during World War II, so "neutrality was not really the issue.
Scotchtommy | Jan 28, 2012, 11:44 AM EST
ciaradexy -I can tell that you've lived a quiet life and don't read much Irish history.Examples -Mary McSwinney of the well known republican family who repeatedly urged De Valera to declare war on Briain in 1939/40.Surprisingly when Hitler started losing the war ,Mary shut up.Dillon the TD who stated that if Britain went under to Hitler then it would be the end of Christian civilization (he was howled down in the Dail of course).George Cole (famous British actor)who as a boy of 14 was in Dublin on the day Britian declared war on Germany.He said that was the scariest moment of the war for him as from his hotel room he saw crowds of Dubliners marching along,waving swastika flags and cheering Germany.I know you won't believe a word of this -all I say is check out what I've written.As to some (I stress "some")Irish today - read some of the posts here and prove me that to this day there are many Irish for whom Britain and not Nazi Germany was the enemy.And don't dare accuse me of trivialising the death of 6 million people (I note you don't have the moral courage to say Jews)-coming from a country that did NOTHING before during or after the Holocaust to help the Jews.I would NEVER be offensive to the 6 million jews- as to some Irish finding my views offensive - tough!!
gobdawpaddy | Jan 28, 2012, 09:09 AM EST
Of course Dev nearly drowned in his own nasal excrement as he snivelled over to Hempel's (German minister to Ireland)residence on the death of Hitler, to express condolences on behalf of the Irish people.
ciaradexy | Jan 28, 2012, 04:27 AM EST
Scotchtommy, -''The (ironic) point I was making is that there are some Irish people who insist that Hitler "was not such a bad fella and he nivver did anything against Ireland -unlike the Brits who starved/tortured/slaughtered millions of Irish.'' I have never ever in all my life met an Irish person who thinks this way. Im guessing youre American here just from that post. Its the most ridiculous statement I have ever read on here and its highly offensive to the 6 million people murdered by the nazi's and to the Irish people.
Scotchtommy | Jan 28, 2012, 03:41 AM EST
sparklet- I was being ironic .In the minds of all decent humanity it would have been hell on earth and the end of Christian civilization if Hitler had won.The (ironic) point I was making is that there are some Irish people who insist that Hitler "was not such a bad fella and he nivver did anything against Ireland -unlike the Brits who starved/tortured/slaughtered millions of Irish.So don't keep on this guff about Hitler's extermination camps.Compared with you Brits he was an Angel of Mercy ".Being a peaceful guy I say nothing.Probably (I hope )they are joking just to wind up the Brits and the Yanks.
macalister | Jan 27, 2012, 11:25 PM EST
How many times are they going to hash over the events of all the wars,all the supposed plots and ploys,who was to blame for what etc.?It's 2012 - LIVE in it - put the past to rest.Recriminations and apologies won't change anything.
macalister | Jan 27, 2012, 10:13 PM EST
sirpeter, I presume you're joking. Yes, of course I would, my life for six million human beings. No question, no hesitation - I have lived longer on this earth than you have, and have known many Jews in my life and in my family. I hope for your sake that your question was a joke, albeit a bad one.
sirpeter | Jan 27, 2012, 09:36 PM EST
Better make my comment on the article.Not one Irish life is worth 6 million Jews.I can prove this.But I need one volunteer...Anybody??? Anybody here willing to give their life for 6 million Jews?
sirpeter | Jan 27, 2012, 09:11 PM EST
@dipsydolly.Of course if you expand your criticism......
sirpeter | Jan 27, 2012, 09:09 PM EST
@dipsydolly.LOL.Best comment so far.I defend everything Irish except the Irish government.Welcome to the IC snake pit.;))
Collette2 | Jan 27, 2012, 07:15 PM EST
Allan, I am very much, pro-Jewish, Ireland was/is and remains a Catholic country. We were bred with the idea that Jews were Christ killers, and anti-semitism rife, from the top. Susan Zucotti's, book, they passed under his very window one of the most credible written, speaks for it's self, [not forgetting Elie Weisel] The church was more afraid of communism. Don't hold us all to ransom over this. We are well aware now what was done and continues be done in our name, to our own innocent and vulnerable. Many worldwide being survivors too, of soul destroying and physical attacks, COMMITTED BY OUR OWN! One consolation I claim for you, is that your relationship with Yaweh, The God of Israel, The God of your forefathers never faltered. Shalom.
Sparklet | Jan 27, 2012, 05:29 PM EST
Scotchtommy, please say youre joking. Tho even if are, its not funny. A better world if Hitler had won? The man responsible for the holocaust? I think that might qualify as the most moronic comment I've ever seen on here, or anywhere else. Ask the Jews and the Gypsies if it would have been a better world.
dipsydolly | Jan 27, 2012, 05:23 PM EST
I wouldnt be paying too much attention to Irish ministers They have a habit of screwing up.
Scotchtommy | Jan 27, 2012, 04:55 PM EST
slainthe9 -nobody in their right mind expected Ireland with their underequipped forces to declare war on Nazi German.What was (secretly discussed) was that if Germany invaded Ireland ,Britain would be expected to jump in and drive out the Nazis - with the FULL permission of the Irish Government.There is a school of thought however which holds that some (many?) Irish were secretly hoping for a Nazi invasion in order to wipe the Brits off the face of the earth.Who is to say if it would have been a better world if Hitler had won.It would certainly have meant a United Ireland
Murph46 | Jan 27, 2012, 04:38 PM EST
Hey Scotchtommy,I would be interested in hearing your take on the Scottish separatist vote(which I think is awesome)I don't even know -is Scotland in the Euro.Love to hear your thoughts.
slainte9 | Jan 27, 2012, 04:33 PM EST
Please. Ireland, which had virtually no army, navy or air force, was supposed to declare war on Germany? Especially when England had done a very, very poor job of defending France. This is preposterous anti-Catholic bigotry. AND YET ANOTHER CORRUPT ATTEMPT DIVERT ATTENTION FROM BRITAIN AND THE SOVIET UNIONS FAILURES AND MOST SPECIFICALLY BETRAYAL OF CATHOLIC POLAND. LEFTIES WHO HATE THE IRISH AND CATHOLICS ARE EAGERLY OVERLOOK WHO FAILED TO STOP HITLER AND WHO ALLIED WITH HIM TO CONQUER THE POLES -- NEVILLE CHAMBERLAIN AND JOSEPH STALIN!
awoken32 | Jan 27, 2012, 04:05 PM EST
im not smeering his religon Scotchtommy im merley stating the fact that israel is committing horrendousncrimes ahainst hummanity now,as in in this age we are living in,why does shatter not say a word about the present instead of taken cheap shots at the past,ireland owes no one nothing,we had our own holocaust that most peole say was a potato famine,rubbish we had loads more food to eat,so yeh all im saying is its double standards from shatter
Scotchtommy | Jan 27, 2012, 03:30 PM EST
awoken32-for the love of Jays-s is this how low we are sinking.Shatter is a Jew so somehow he is to be blamed for what is happening between Israel and the Palestinians.There have been some vicious postings on this website but nobody has sunk so low as to sneer at a man's religion - UP TILL NOW."Blame it all on the Jews.The Jews are our misfortune"I seem to have heard this somewhere before.Where was it?
awoken32 | Jan 27, 2012, 01:40 PM EST
i think this is a bit rich coming from shatter(a jew),with no mention of israel behaving in the exact way with the people of palistine,from stealing their land to the eradication of the palestinian people
ancavker | Jan 27, 2012, 01:38 PM EST
Scotch: Actually De Valera did not hate the British, and he and Churchill became quite friendly in the 1950's. And Churchill acknowledged on several occasions that the Irish version of neutrality was quite beneficial to the Allied cause, including the British. I am not fan of De Valera but Irish neutrality was the best course for Ireland at the time. The history is out there boys and girls. For an excellent and more balanced account of De Valera, I suggest Dermot Feritter's book published a couple of years ago.
Scotchtommy | Jan 27, 2012, 01:15 PM EST
The Irish Government would have preferred to keep British Airmen interned but they were not stupid.Knowing how RAF men escaped from occupied Europe ,how long do you think Ireland could have kept them locked up?They'd have been escaping into Ulster in minutes.With regard to Ireland's neutrality ,British and Irish officers,from the earliest days of WW2 held top secret joint talks as to how to deal with a Nazi invasion of Ireland.The basic premise was a)The British Army could not move in until the Nazis had actually invaded Ireland and they were then requested by the Irish to come in. b)British forces would be completely under Irish command.(I think the Irish general named to have supreme command over Irish/British forces was named something like Sean Mckeowen-could be wrong .Somebody correct me).De Valera, despite his hatred of the British MUST have known about this.I don't believe the Irish Supreme Command would have worked out this plan without his full knowledge.Regardless of the politicians, the Irish High Command were not stupid.They knew who the real danger was.And it was not Britain
GeorgeDillon | Jan 27, 2012, 12:43 PM EST
Imagine the carnage if Germany has started a bombing blitz against Dublin. The Free State Army has almost no anti-aircraft capability. I'm no fan of De Valera, but neutrality was the right option, a neutrality that in fact was benevolent to the Allies. A relative of mine who was in the Irish Army during WWII reminisced about playing soccer at the Curragh with German POWs, mostly German aviators who had come down in Ireland. These men were not returned to Germany until the war ended, I suspect they were very satisfied with their fate as POWs in Ireland--they even went to local dances on the week-ends. When I asked him did he remember playing soccer with British POWs also he said "Sure there weren't any, we sent them all quietly back over the Border as soon as we caught them".
GeorgeDillon | Jan 27, 2012, 12:36 PM EST
LacarourSeanB: You show your ignorance of Irish history. I suggest an intensive reading course for six months and come back and resume posting in July 2012. Error Number One: Michael Collins was not "murdered". He was killed in action during a gun fight in open countryside in West Cork. Get your facts straight.
Tooreenagrena | Jan 27, 2012, 11:58 AM EST
How is it that a Fine Gail Zionist is speaking for the irish people. DE Valaera made his desisions based on what he thought was in the irish peoples interests at the time. Irelans is 'morally bankrupt' by allowing Zionists to dictate their foreign policy.
CitizenWhy | Jan 27, 2012, 11:34 AM EST
No fan of DeValera, I would imagine that the US and the UK would have wanted Ireland to remain neutral. Otherwise a German invasion of Ireland could have succeeded, or at least shifted Allied resources from the invasion of France. The neutrality benefited all. The sympathy for Hitler is another matter.
Laochra | Jan 27, 2012, 11:09 AM EST
Sparklet is right. It's easy to say now, in hindsight, that Ireland was "morally bankrupt" in remaining neutral when in reality it was the only stance to take if they hoped to survive. Germany could have wiped out the entire country overnight. England could barely defend itself much less Ireland. Having only just won independence and fought a civil war, the young nation was ill equiped to take on Germany. Maintaining neutrality, and our very existence, during that war was remarkable. A hell of a lot more than 10,000 Irishman faught for the Allied forces. Pretty much every young Irishman in England and America fought. Ireland was also an important exporting partner with England during the war. The Germans actually bombed a creamery in Cork which was supplying the Allied Forces. I have no idea what Shatter is talking about how returning soldiers were treated. My uncle was a RAF pilot throughout the war and came home Offaly as a hero and eventual Aer Lingus pilot. Depite whatever Dev thought or did, Ireland and her people did what they had to do to survive like most during the war and have nothing to be ashamed of.
cillowen | Jan 27, 2012, 10:58 AM EST
Amazing how Shatter dumps so on a fellow tribe member NY born De'Valera, whose daddy like Hitler was Jewish. why, ny born dev was not the numero uno on the list with Does Shatter know or care about the terrible history of Ireland that saw a people within a short few years gain a modicum of freedom from their 800 year occupier. ALL THINGS being finally hunkey dorey the Irish people were to have the responsibility for hundreds of thousands of Jews to descend upon them - even the Great USA didn't want them nor did Rebbes want to take their flocks there for fear of contamination - check it out. Then in power Dev who was the setup con that split irish natives into destroying one another, worked wonders to discredit their cause while in service to the crown. Such doings also helped him to secure a homeland for his father's tribe, as a consequence, those in the know, appreciate him being one of their own. During WWII, the benefit to Britain of the Irish ? announcing neutrality - that was one brilliant piece of business, it afforded them a breadbasket Eire and a steady flow of manpower being constantly ferried across the Irish Sea. A brilliant troika ploy it was, and the stupid gerries didn't catch on. With such back and forth support this enabled the UKes to stay focussed on their attacking Saxon brothers. Dev's work is highly regarded in Israel - the things he had to do to keep with the charade, one being the condolences at Hitler's demise.
LacarourSeanB | Jan 27, 2012, 10:22 AM EST
Dear God! DeValera expressed condolences on the death of Hitler to the Nazi ambassador? After the blitz? After the Jews, Priests, Nuns, Gypsys and so many other unequivocal innocents were exterminated in a manner worse than rats? AFTER Europe had been held in a death noose? After the camps were known even? THAT's neutrality? Is it a verifiable fact that Dev did this? Dev had his foibles alright. Dev was reputedly in the vicinity of Beal na Blath in Cork the day that Michael Collins was murdered during the Civil war. Did he have a hand in Collins murder? I've sometimes wondered about that. God knows that he had motivation and jealousy enough to consider such a thing. This story concerning WWII is sad. "My Kingdom is not of this world." Yet ANOTHER reminder. Anyone who may read this, please stop for a moment and offer a quick Prayer for all involved and for all of us. Conditions remain existing in this world, in us, that allow such things to be. Time to stop that. Let's together call upon and congeal some Heavenly power here. "On Earth as it is in Heaven" Lets honestly get ourselves there while ever seeking the Grace of God so as to effectuate that.
LoyalCitizen | Jan 27, 2012, 10:18 AM EST
Most of the Nazis who fled Germany at the end of WW2 must have ended up running Ireland............In consideration how the traitors of Ireland have been stealing from Social Welfare Recipients to hide their economic mistakes and financing American Corporations, there are crimes against humanity happening in Ireland and nobody gets protection by law.
Sparklet | Jan 27, 2012, 10:17 AM EST
I admire the men who fought against the Nazis, but as a country, Ireland had its own problems, and being anything less than (officially) neutral would have been disastrous.