41 Comments

• Snowdrop | Sep 12, 2010, 05:20 AM EDT

  Responders appear to be clashing Irish machismo, energy better served by uniting to prime that beautiful Ireland economic pump! Elected leaders attemt devisive tactics. Show them. Unite. Think English and Roman empires; Who wasn't invaded? As for DNA & global warming, these are facts. Surely tracing the DNA of a man with 10 generations of proven Irish ancestry t'would be more valuable. Who makes these decisions? Get active and stop yer moaning. Also, I propose eliminating the polite meaningless term "Great Irish Famine" and replace it with the more historicaly accurate "Great Irish Starvation." By using correct labels, we face truths, and avoid the name calling, boys.

• Temerity | Sep 11, 2010, 01:00 AM EDT

  Finger prints and now DNA it is interesting isn't how unique each person is?All interesting stuff but will it make a difference to the Irish?

• jamieLM | Sep 10, 2010, 06:48 PM EDT

  Agree with Seamusdhu - 3 generations is nothing in genetics and genealogy. I'd want to test a bloodline that goes a lot farther back than that.

• jamieLM | Sep 10, 2010, 06:43 PM EDT

  Dompedro: I was just curious - no putdown intended - since you agreed with Citizenwhy more than with krissangel and jimgordo1. I thought they all had good posts. I've had a mitochondrial DNA test through a legitimate medical lab and have had some genetic courses in my medical training. You've provided an interesting post - just looking for info.

• Dompedro | Sep 10, 2010, 06:27 PM EDT

  response to jamieLM-- I reviewed my post and didn't see where I claimed to be an expert in DNA testing and am not sure whether you are looking for information or a putdown -- but to answer your question, you could try reading books (Cunliffe, Rafterry, Sykes, Fagan, Oppenheimer, Ellis) or published papers on the subject from the past ten or fifteen years from various labs throughout Europe --- and krissangel is correct about the invasions into the British isles, but the Norse and Normans (root word is not a coincidence) and Anglo-Saxons apparently left remarkably little, although detectable, DNA inheritance in the islands' populations ------ and while lostgold (terrible calamity?) appears correct about the lack of henges and burial mounds like those in the Boyne Valley in the Basque country, there are huge dolmens in Gallicia which are remarkably similar to those such as Poulnabrone in the West of Ireland (which may well predate New Grange and Stonehenge) and whoever and however many migrants may have come from northern Spain , they also may have predated the henge and mound builders

• Seamusdhu | Sep 10, 2010, 10:19 AM EDT

  There is a work on the market called "Erins Blood Royal"the Gaelic Noble Dynasties of Ireland " by Peter Beresford Ellis detailinf what happened and where are the descendants of many of Irelands aristocracy whose lands were held forfeit by the British crown. Some of these families can give evidence of their pedigree back centuries with real historic knowledge and even further to the time of the Milesians if you asses ancient legendary material as having any worth. Why didn't Dr.Loftus and his team do DNA sampling on these people not some individual from the streets of Dublin whose DNA goes back only three generations i.e 60 to 90 years. Why not someone like Samuel Trent McCarthy whose bloodline can rightly be called and I hope I have the Gaelic correct ;Priomhlittera nan derb na Eber" Head letter of the blood of Eber.Not some street fuzz from Dublin whose great grandfather could have wandered in from anywhere in Europe.

• kurtjohnson | Sep 09, 2010, 09:16 PM EDT

  "My Y chromosome signature shows a relationship to Faeroe isles Norse Vikings and Dalriadic Scots" How do you distinguish between the Irish and Dalriadic Scots genetically?

• kurtjohnson | Sep 09, 2010, 09:14 PM EDT

  "All Irleands problems are created by the cronyism and corruption of Ireland, no one else." This is the result of the post-colonial client state phenomenon which is still predominant in many third world states (i.e. South America). That Ireland has had much more stability and relative prosperity than most other post-colonial countries is telling given it's relative lack of natural resources and the fact that it's modern political origins result from a destructive civil war and artificial colonial division. Moreover, you ignore what was given up by Ireland with EU membership including currency autonomy and fishing rights.

• kurtjohnson | Sep 09, 2010, 09:07 PM EDT

  "A better test for a "typical Irish DNA" would be to test someone who can document their family history a lot further back than 75-100 years. I would imagine that the majority of the Irish results would be Norse/Norman or Continental." Why even bother posting this completely unsubstantiated speculative nonsense. In the cases where the issue has been closely examined, results strongly suggest that the majority of the Irish in the regions tested suggest majority descent from ancient haplotypes such as Irish Type III or R-M222 Mutation. http://www.bowesonenamestudy.com/dna_project_pages/participants/haplogroup_r1b/r1b1b2a1b5b/ http://www.irishtype3dna.org/index.php A 2006 study found very little Viking blood in the Irish: http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v14/n12/abs/5201709a.html Moreover, Norse/Norman and "continental" can be very different things. Even in the most general sense, it is undisputed that the RIb haplotype is most heavily concentrated in Ireland (and among the basque) and dilutes as you move east through britain into the continent.

• lostgold | Sep 09, 2010, 12:45 PM EDT

  naughtios I was not speaking about the EU I was speaking about Europe as it was during the Great Famine. Even so it strikes me as strange that ships from the Ottoman Empire reached Ireland before that of European states . Could they have bought into the British prejudice that the Irish are pigs so let them die anyway.They must have known what was happening before the Turks did. As for the idea that the Basques were the original people of the British isles perhaps and I assume that these were the Stonehenge and New Grange builders.Why do we not find anything like Stonehenge in Spain where Basque migrants came from. As for the DNA project itself I hope its not part of the National Geographic Genographic Project based upon mistakes like declaring and still sticking to the idea as far as I know that Robert Peary was first man at the north pole their track record isn't so hot.Books like "Peary at the Pole Fact or Fiction?"and "The Coldest March"by Solomon doubt this conclusion. In short I hope National Geographic doesn't do to the DNA based human migration project what they did to polar exploration.Many students of Polar exploration think Peary lied in his diaries.

• naughtius | Sep 09, 2010, 09:11 AM EDT

  Here's a good blog on a bit more info on Irish genetics if yo want to hear from people that know what they're talking about. hhttp://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2010/09/genetic-differences-within-european-populations/

• naughtius | Sep 09, 2010, 09:01 AM EDT

  Lostgold, you do know the Eu didn't exist the time of the famine. If it wasn't for EU money Ireland would be a bigger basket case than it is now. Some people seem to be thining of a country that only existed in DeValeras wet dream. All Irleands problems are created by the cronyism and corruption of Ireland, no one else.

• naughtius | Sep 09, 2010, 08:55 AM EDT

  George Dillon, irish peolpe will be gone in ageneration, give me a break, you almost manage to out Paisley Paisley. The only place they will be going is overseas because of Angloo.

• Meniskos | Sep 09, 2010, 12:28 AM EDT

  Are these researchers doing serious work? Or are they going to start selling a test to find out how inbred Irish you are?

• lostgold | Sep 08, 2010, 09:54 PM EDT

  I agree with George Dillon completely but I also think that if an Irish government of the future tried to get rid of these foreign immigrants the first cry that would go up would be racism and who do these Irish think they are. However there was little or no help from other European nations when millions of Irish were dying of hunger during the great famine or when thousands of Irish girls had to sell themselves as whores on the streets of London and Birmingham to make a living.First ships to reach Ireland during the Great Famine with aid were from Islamic Turkey our European brothers stood strangely silent. Also while DNA knowledge is good according to E.Curtis in his "History of Ireland" the modern Irish people were formed when the old Norman stock that remained Catholic threw in their lot with the old Gaelic stock that remained Catholic As for that Basque genetic element hinted at in the book "Celts,Saxons and Vikings" so what nobody in our own country cares anymore that the first Americans were paleolithic people from Siberia.As a matter of fact it was the lowland Scotch plantation in Ulster that were given the former Irish Catholic lands is the origin of the present problem in the North of Ireland who when they migrated to the American continent became the great Indian fighters that helped drive native Americans off their land. See any good biography of Davy Crocket, Kit Carson, Daniel Boone they were all Scotch-Irish Has anyone checked Scotch-Irish DNA?

• Buffalobrave | Sep 08, 2010, 05:22 PM EDT

  BULLSHIT!!

• Dublinjas | Sep 08, 2010, 05:03 PM EDT

  I am descended from the Norse, My great great Grandfather was Dublin born as I was myself, but some years ago I participated in the Denmark Viking Y-DNA Project and was found to have DNA closely related to that of the Norse....My Y chromosome signature shows a relationship to Faeroe isles Norse Vikings and Dalriadic Scots, Who at some point found their way to Dublin. Exciting stuff this DNA.

• jamieLM | Sep 08, 2010, 04:55 PM EDT

  Dompedro: What makes you an expert on DNA testing?

• Dompedro | Sep 08, 2010, 02:27 PM EDT

  article is uninformative, as are most of your commentators, who haven't been doing their homework ..... CitizenWhy is far closer to the accumulated knowledge than are krissangel or jimgordo1

• jimgordo1 | Sep 08, 2010, 02:11 PM EDT

  As male DNA is passed from father to son, male (Y-DNA) reflects surname. And that is only good back to around the 12th century when surnames came into general use. Female DNA (mitochondrial DNA) is passed from mother to children and can be used to confirm distant origins (think "Seven Daughters of Eve"). From my experience with DNA as co-Administrator of a surname DNA Project, to say that because a man has a documented family history of three generations that proves him to be a "good example of Irish DNA. The only thing that shows is that his grandfather (or great grandfather, depending on how they're counting generations). I've not had experience with testing associated with any Irish surnames, but I imagine that lIrish haplogroups (DNA ckassification best detemnined from female mtDNA) are as varied as any other group of people. A better test for a "typical Irish DNA" would be to test someone who can document their family history a lot further back than 75-100 years. I would imagine that the majority of the Irish results would be Norse/Norman or Continental.

• WoundedKnee | Sep 08, 2010, 12:49 PM EDT

  Padraig8: So you don't think the arrival of huge numbers of Eastern Europeans, Chinese, Africans etc. in Ireland will irrevocably change the Irish gene pool? Go read up a little about genetics before posting nonsense. (By the way, what the hell does your dual citizenship have to do with the topic? Your mentioning it makes you look like a fool.)

• krissangel | Sep 08, 2010, 12:46 PM EDT

  There is no such thing as "pure" Irish - the island was invaded by the Norse, the Iberians, and the Normans, just to name a few!

• CitizenWhy | Sep 08, 2010, 12:43 PM EDT

  Other genetic research (Oxford U) shows that the Irish, English, Scots and Basques are closely related genetically and are different genetically from other Europeans. The first people into Ireland came from Spain and spoke a language close to Basque. Same for Britain. The Celtic and Saxon overlays came later. These original immigrants from Spain are still the major genetic pool for the inhabitants of Greta Britain and Ireland. ... The Irish are indeed different from the British due to later genetic developments, as the Dublin study shows. ... But to find out more about the 16,000 year old genetic unity of the Irish, English and Scots Google: Irish English Scot genetic New York Times

• CitizenWhy | Sep 08, 2010, 12:09 PM EDT

  I was on a DNA testing site in the USA a week ago and they had a test for Irish DNA. They also has discovered that one Irish strain is quite different from the others - Irish Type III, Dalcassians, descendants of the families related to Brian Boru, with the highest incidence, not surprisingly, in Clare Limerick and Tipperary. You can Google Irish Type III to learn more.

• joanmoody | Sep 08, 2010, 11:44 AM EDT

  Gee, I would love to know exactly what my DNA would say. I live in the US and my mother's people were Irish and German and my dad's were Scot's, Welsh and maybe English.

• maloney | Sep 08, 2010, 11:43 AM EDT

  GeorgeD...Freedom of speech should be world wide. no matter how crazy or bigoted or violent the speech may be. Are you saying you are glad the DNA was done before Ireland is to muddled or are you saying Ireland should stop immigration to keep the blood pure?

• Yerffac | Sep 08, 2010, 10:27 AM EDT

  Thickheaded and stubborn, aye, for sure, and proud of it. Is it worth being anything but Irish?

• boomerbob | Sep 08, 2010, 10:05 AM EDT

  GeorgeDillon "It is good that this research has been done while there still remains a distinctive Irish nationality" I quite agree with you on this. There are fewer distinct cultures and nationalities left in a world of cultural blending. With mobility easily at the hands of most, we're rapidly becoming a culture of mixed mush, often losing character, individuality and traditions that accompany the distinctiveness of cultures. Unfortunately, there's not a lot that can be done to prevent the phenomenon. We now have the unique opportunity to learn what it feels like to lose our cultures, much as the Native Americans did during European Imperialism and westward expansionism under Manifest Destiny attitudes, or as the Aboriginal culture did during the time of assimilation in Australia. Although the circumstances are much different now and the gradual enculturation of newcomers to Ireland and other nations is nowhere near as brutal as others have experienced, the end of the game will be the same.

• mairdemalone | Sep 08, 2010, 10:04 AM EDT

  DNA began its journey in a small area of Africa! Over several millions of years, some of these nomadic humanoids crossed Africa, (while others roamed across the southern hemisphere) and made their way to Persia, Europe, and the outer islands, one of them being Ireland. So we are all related! Thanks to centuries of abuse by overlords, Irish as well as English, French, Spanish and especially those of the Holy Roman Empire, and ethical governments, the lack of sunshine, nutrition and feelings of instability, has pounded the health of the average Irish land dweller. -I would hazard a guess and say within the DNA of Ireland's dwellers, there will be found a connection to all other down trodden ethnic groups.

• killowen | Sep 08, 2010, 09:52 AM EDT

  Will DNA help them understand the important usage of their harp symbol by their occupier neighbour - which is ongoing?

• MaryTheresa | Sep 08, 2010, 09:41 AM EDT

  Very interesting. Looking forward to more research. Interested in the genes for depression and mania and if they are in the DNA code.

• Christisall | Sep 08, 2010, 09:32 AM EDT

  Is thickheadedness part of the Irish DNA code?

• rcrdskpr@aol.com | Sep 08, 2010, 09:30 AM EDT

  will this then link us to the scots, spanish(iberian peninsula), and french? i am under the impression these are all people of celtic heritage. how can you only come up with an "irish signature"?

• Padraig8 | Sep 08, 2010, 09:23 AM EDT

  Mr Dillon methinks thou doth protest to much. I live in the US and we are a diverse world get over your silly bias. people are people ease up and enjoy life a little or you wont live long. i am a dual citizen but consider myself a Citizen of the World. Attitudes like yours are what cause Wars

• hunter933 | Sep 08, 2010, 09:20 AM EDT

  It always was isolated!

• newcanaan | Sep 07, 2010, 03:50 PM EDT

  can they tell us when we will start walking up right after closing time.

• GeorgeDillon | Sep 07, 2010, 02:39 PM EDT

  All surveys show that about 70% of people in Ireland (that means more than 70% of the Irish people, since a lot of those surveyed would not have been Irish) oppose Mass Immigration Madness. Yet conjoly wants the views of the majority of the Irish people to remain unexpressed on this site!! Your Fianna Fail buddies are the worst government in the history of Ireland, clownjoly, and your clumsy attempt at shutting down debate can't shield them from criticism here.

• GeorgeDillon | Sep 07, 2010, 02:33 PM EDT

  Conjoly: I note you haven't an idea in your empty head about the substance of my posting--you only wish to censor me. Not surprising, since debate in Ireland on Mass Immigration has been stifled. In fact in almost a dozen years of Mass Immigration, the Irish parliament has not devoted ONE minute to debating its consequences. Irish television and newspapers only toe the Fianna Fail line that Mass Immigration and "diversity" (that means a Chiese guy takes your money in the gas station) is wonderful, and aren't the Irish lucky that so many Africans, Russians, Chinese, Indians etc. have chosen to live as settlers in their ancient country. Now Ireland is facing ruin, with a huge population of foreign settlers, many of them on welfare, whose children clog the schools, whose sick fill hospital wards. And conjoly wants to cut off discussion on that? You're a Fianna Fail lunatic, conjoly, your kind has brought Ireland to being an international basket case. Your attempt to stifle debate may work in Ireland, conjoly, but this ain't Ireland, and your stupid censorship won't wash. As Ireland lurches ever closer to calamity and social disorder, I fully expect Fascist Fianna Failers like conjoly to try to prevent people expressing their opinions.

• Conjoly | Sep 07, 2010, 12:56 PM EDT

  yes George, we get the message. Writing incessantly on IrishCentral isn't going to change it. Give us all a break, please.

• GeorgeDillon | Sep 07, 2010, 12:15 PM EDT

  It is good that this research has been done while there still remains a distinctive Irish nationality. All forecasts concur that within a generation there will be no longer any such thing, as the gene pool of people in Ireland will be changed for ever by the Mass Immigration from Eastern Europe, Asia and Africa.

• STEPcoach | Sep 07, 2010, 11:55 AM EDT

  Did you find the bits in there that make us smarter, better looking, and more contemplative than most?