Irish Bishops accused of hating women by top female politician during abortion hearings
Senator Ivana Bacik says church has no role in how women decide on reproductive rights
Published Friday, January 11, 2013, 7:20 AM
Updated Friday, January 11, 2013, 9:13 AM
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Labour Party Senator Ivana Bacik
Photo by ivanabacik.com
Ireland’s Catholic Bishops have been accused of hating women by a leading female Labour Party Senator.
Ivana Bacik made the accusation during a parliamentary hearing on proposals to allow for abortion where a mother’s life is at risk.
The Irish Independent reports that Senator Bacik has accused the Catholic Bishops of opposing the legislation on the basis of ‘misogyny towards women’ and a belief in the ‘innate deceitfulness of women.’
Bacik told the parliamentary hearing: “Can you say what business it is of a Church whose members are entirely and exclusively male and celibate to pronounce in such absolutist terms on such a critical issue in terms of reproductive rights for both women and girls?”
Bacik was then interrupted by the parliament’s Health committee chair Jerry Buttimer TD who pointed out to her that the Catholic Church is made up of both men and women.
Well known priest Fr Timothy Bartlett responded to the attack by saying that he had never been labelled as a misogynist before.
Fr Bartlett called for speakers to avoid creating ‘caricatures’ of people which did not reflect their true stance.
Read more: Irish politicians must rule on abortion law decisions despite Catholic Church objections
The hearing also heard from Bishop of Elphin Dr Christopher Jones that there is ‘no need’ for abortion legislation to protect the lives of pregnant women as he outlined the bishops’ opposition to the legislation, saying that they were opposed to the deliberate killing of an unborn baby.
Bishop Jones said: “This is different from medical treatment to save the life of the mother where there is no other option and where intervention does not intentionally seek to end the life of the unborn baby.
“Any suggestion that Ireland is an unsafe place for pregnant mothers due to the ban on abortion is a complete distortion of the truth.”
He then repeated the bishops’ opposition to legislating for the 1992 Supreme Court X case which allowed for abortion in the case of a suicidal pregnant teenage rape victim.
The paper reports that Bishop Jones said consideration should be given to either a referendum on abortion to overturn this judgment or updated medical guidelines for doctors treating pregnant women.
Read more: Irish politicians must rule on abortion law decisions despite Catholic Church objections
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137 Comments
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EamonnDublin | Jan 28, 2013, 02:46 PM EST
Eiriamach - Firstly, I suggest you have a look around for the meaning of the words "Islamist" and/or "Islamism". It does NOT mean "all Muslims". Secondly, your blanket criticism of "Pro-Life" supporters beggars belief. As for yourself, Seánie (does it ever bother you that you bear the same name as Seánie Fitzpatrick? No, NOT the rugby player!) I doubt very much if even YOU would suggest that Israel directs phosphorous bombs into the midst of the Palestinians for no reason and randomly. Only kidding about Fitz - I know you are twice the man that little runt is. Yes, I know that's bad grammar, but, hey!, it's my birthday on Thursday. I look forward to loadsnloadsnloads of good wishes from all my lefty liberal loonie fans on the Irish Central site - fans who, despite their amazingly off the wall outlook, realise and understand that they are wrong and I am right. I tell you, fans, it really DOES bring a lovely, warm glow of comfort, knowing one is ALWAYS right. As my late great great great granduncle, Amon the Crusader, used to say "If you ever think I got one wrong, it just means you got it wrong AGAIN". Éamonn, Dublin, Irlande.
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jacersagain | Jan 26, 2013, 08:06 PM EST
eiriamach butts into a lively, fascinating bantering discussion between Seano and Eamonn. What’s the bets Eamo and Seano are falling in lurrve w/ each other?
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eiriamach | Jan 26, 2013, 10:55 AM EST
On Thursday, a California court sentenced David Headley, who organized the 2008 Mumbai terrorist attacks, to 35 years in prison (he testified against his fellow Muslim extremists to avoid life in prison; he's 52 now). Headley is an American. So as I began reading Eamonn's Jan 25, 05:17 AM post, I thought he was writing about the USA! Today's NY Times reports this month's poll by the Public Religion Research Institute, which found that among Catholics who describe themselves as “pro-life,” one-third oppose gun control laws. Are these "pro-life" Catholics not "extremists"? Which of these two groups is in fact "pro-life" -- Islam or "Pro-life" American Catholicism? The Muslims I know all decry mass slaughter, they support gun control, none owns a lethal weapon, they allow abortion in life-threatening pregnancies, and they do not demonize other religions. By contrast, a huge number of "pro-life" Catholics are content to "let women die" in pregnancy crisis while supporting the right of anyone to own a hoard of high-capacity lethal weapons and labeling extremists of *other* religions "evil."
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seanomelb | Jan 25, 2013, 07:36 PM EST
I wonder who protects the Palestinian whlist they sleep Eamonn They go to bed each night wondering where the next phosphorous bomb is coming from. Well may we sleep Eamonn!!but then again it is not all about us a duine uasal
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EamonnDublin | Jan 25, 2013, 05:17 AM EST
Come, come, a Sheán, The only group I hear constantly telling the rest of the world that they will annihilate every civilization except theirs - and conducting ongoing atrocities to prove its point - is Islamism. Islamism is an evil which, if it is not disabled, will continue to grow and commit these atrocities. There is no room for Political Correctness where evil is concerned, especially when the aim of that evil is to exterminate everybody else by killing them. And, please, Seán, don't make a fool of yourself by replying with something like "well, Christians want to do the same". They don't. And you are much too intelligent to give reason for your views to be laughed at. Now, it's my birthday at the end of the month, so give me some peace! Oíche mhait, codhladh sámh (The United States of America is protecting you whilst you sleep). Éamonn, Dublin.
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seanomelb | Jan 23, 2013, 05:42 PM EST
Now!Now! Eamonn don't burst your boiler. I agree extremist Muslims are making all sorts of threats so are extremist Christians (especially in the U.S.) and Right wing Jewish groups( in your beloved Israel) want to rid the world of Muslims. Therefore there,re Christians,Muslims and Jews living under a siege mentality and you fit the profile of a Christian with a siege mentality. La mhaith agat a chara.
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EamonnDublin | Jan 23, 2013, 06:08 AM EST
Sean, You are at it again! I wrote "Islamists". ISLAMISTS!! I-S-L-A=M-I-S-T-S. And THEY tell US that THEY are going to conquer the West and subject us all to Shari'a Law. It's not ME saying it - it's THEM. The ISLAMISTS!!!!! Got it NOW? Éamonn, Dublin.
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seanomelb | Jan 22, 2013, 05:53 PM EST
No Eamonn! unlike you a chara I do not live with a siege mentalty. Most Muslims like the rest of us are only interested in having a good lifestyle. Extreme Muslims/Christians/Jews ought to be marginalised. Maybe we will give them their own country and call it hateland and let them deal with each other.
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adrienrain | Jan 22, 2013, 09:43 AM EST
I think you're not publishing my previous comment.....
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EamonnDublin | Jan 22, 2013, 04:05 AM EST
Sean, Coming so soon after the disgusting Algerian atrocity, your post appears to be even more unbalanced than is normal. Do you never stop for a few seconds to consider how our grandchildren (especially the girls) might be treated if Islamism is successful with its threat to conquer the world and subject us all to Shari'a Law? If you have not done so, please take a little time out now. Best Wishes, Éamonn, Dublin.
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seanomelb | Jan 21, 2013, 06:47 PM EST
Jacer thrvast majority of Mulims do not live in countries where limbs and heads are removed.
I find it amusing that pro western Islamic nations are the forerunners in this form of punishment. In fact the west actively arm these regimes to insure their survival. Therefore Jacer you have more to fear from your pro western arab friends than from the bulk of the Ilamic world. It's not that long ago when Chritian european countries defended the wholesale slaughter of Africans(including the followers of Islam) to force Christianity upon them. How well we wear the cloak of arrogance.
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jacersagain | Jan 21, 2013, 04:16 PM EST
(…more) Having lived in Islamic countries, I can aver that their system of justice is totally barbaric: hand and part arm chopped off below the elbow for thieves (I saw many one-armed bandits, sometimes no-armed bandits), beheadings for murder and male adulterers, and stoning to death for women adulterers. A work colleague of mine told of three bloodied human heads he saw left hanging from street lamps as a reminder to the public of Sharia Law, just weeks before my visit to Abha, Saudi Arabia. Expats don’t call the main execution square in Riyadh ‘Chop-chop Square’ for nothing. It’s open to the public; an Irishman witnessed a beheading there and had his description of it published in the Irish Times years ago. In Afghanistan, boys as young as twelve are being trained to cut a man’s head off with a large knife (you-tube-it for graphic video). Ken has a nerve to defend Islam or accuse anyone on ICentral or anywhere in the West of Islamophobia. So yes, (Seano!), I do fear and despise Islam but do not distrust the vast majority of unfortunate people who live in fear under it. We should be afraid too, very afraid for our children’s future.
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jacersagain | Jan 21, 2013, 04:13 PM EST
(Fm below) Ye see Andrew007, the WWII topic came up because Ken mentioned Nazis first in this debate and later accused the Church of being murderers (e.g. Inquisitions; in fact Church leaders mistakenly believed they were actually destroying evil when carrying out killings under them. I know, it's not a justification but it is true) and the West of being large scale murderers during WWII. He says Islamic countries (they were hardly Independent back then, were they?) were peaceful during WWI and WWI, conveniently forgetting the input of Muslims of Turkey, Punjab, Egypt, Algeria etc and other Muslim countries in both wars. Ken says we should look at what is really going on and he’s right. He should also take his own advice and edumacate hisself to see what’s really going on in Islam. Islam’s ultimate aim is to introduce Sharia Law in every country in the world. Toronto, in Canada, very nearly acquiesced to its introduction a few years ago (google for that) and parts of Britain came under the same pressure. The surreptitious invasion of Islam throughout the Western world (Islam is now the third biggest religion in Ireland) is well-known: for proof Ken can google ‘Changing Demographics – How Muslims are growing’. (More…)
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jacersagain | Jan 21, 2013, 04:11 PM EST
Apologies, Andrew007 - my knowledge of German nuclear bomb history is pretty slim and faded but the general gist of my points on Germany possibly giving Japan the nuclear bomb was based on cursory reading a book in a library years ago. While I did mistake dates (German surrender pre-Hiroshima) it was known that Germany was working on fissile uranium. Two physicists, Trinkle and Schumann if I remember right were to the fore on that in 1942. There were reports that Nazi Germany carried out three fission ‘bomb’ tests in the Alps. As late as 1944, the Japanese embassy in Sweden knew of the German nuclear stuff and sought the Nazi secret bomb for the Pacific. There were also reports that Germany had used low-level fission bombs on the Eastern Front in 1944 and that before their surrender in May 1945, had killed hundreds of POWs in another fission test somewhere. That’s all I can remember from my library browsing. I don’t even recall the book’s name. (But you’re right - WWI and II do not belong under Ms Bacik’s allegation above, so it’s back to Ken from Dublin next. Like all online discussions, someone saying an aside often sends the discussion off tangent on an unrelated topic. The fact remains that the Church does not hate women as Ms Bacik stupidly claims and instead holds them in highest regard (plenty from the Vatican on that which eiriamach, in her Catholic hatred, illogically ignores).
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