Religious faith in Ireland is in crisis according to a new worldwide survey just published.
The Red C poll, re-printed in the Irish Independent, shows that the Irish are abandoning religion faster than any other country in the world.
The paper reports that only Vietnam has seen a bigger drop in people declaring themselves to be religious over the past seven years.
A series of crises within the Catholic Church in Ireland in that time has had a devastating effect on religious faith.
The poll was conducted amongst 51,000 people worldwide, a thousand of them in Ireland.
An overwhelming 69pc of Irish people declared themselves to be ‘a religious person’ in the last survey conducted in 2005 but that figure is now down to 47pc.
Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin acknowledged: “The results of the global index require closer critical reading.
“It highlights the challenges facing the Catholic faith in a changing Ireland.
“The Catholic Church, on its part, cannot simply presume that the faith will automatically be passed from one generation to the next or be lived to the full by its own members.”
Dr Martin told the paper that there is a need for strong ongoing education in the faith with a growing need for adult religious education to stop people drifting from the faith as they got older.
A spokesman for the Catholic Communications Office told the Irish Independent that faith is not a ‘numbers game’.
He also claimed that the latest survey contrasted sharply with the 2011 Census which found that 84pc described themselves as Catholic and just 5pc said they had no religion.
The spokesman appeared to be critical of the poll. He said: “The word 'religious', if left unqualified, is too general to be used as the keyword in a survey questionnaire, especially in the Irish context where people prefer words such as spiritual.
“Being religious is a very subjective measurement. For example, in the Catholic Church, someone who attends Mass on a daily basis may not describe themselves as religious yet they are outwardly a person of deep faith.”
The latest research has Ireland in the top 10 for the number of people declaring themselves to be ‘a convinced atheist’, a stark rise from three per cent seven years ago.
Speaking on behalf of the Association of Catholic Priests, Fr Brendan Hoban said: “The Red C results are predictable enough given the fall-off in Mass attendance and the drop in interest in the Catholic Church in recent years.
“However Irish Catholic numbers are holding up markedly. But the Catholic Church here is almost traumatised by the scandals of the last 10 to 15 years, and this is affecting its ability to take steps to address declining religious observation.
“It’s so difficult for the bishops to provide leadership because, on the one hand, if they speak out, they are criticised, and if they don't speak out, they are also criticised.”
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.STEVENSTAR | Aug 13, 2012, 08:24 PM EDT
WHAT HAS THIS GO TO DO WITH YOU ?? ....ZILCH !!!
Portia777 | Aug 11, 2012, 04:54 AM EDT
Loosing Faith in the invisible man in the sky- sure it is like waking up to there being no Santa.
ciaradexy | Aug 10, 2012, 10:23 AM EDT
This is encouraging not alarming!
eiriamach | Aug 09, 2012, 08:45 PM EDT
The complete Red C report is available to download at the WIN-Gallup International web site. It lists Ireland among the top 10 atheist countries, with 47 percent of 1001 Irish declaring themselves religious persons, 44 percent not religious, and 10 percent atheist--the same atheist rank as Austria, Iceland, and Australia. Since 2005, the percentage of Irish claiming to be religious has dropped by 22 percent, compared to an average 9 percent drop in the other 56 countries studied. The US dropped 13 percent. The question they responded to was "Irrespective of whether you attend a place of worship or not, would you say you are a religious person, not a religious person or a convinced atheist?" The USA ranked 60 on the Global religiosity Index; Ireland ranked 47. The USA is number 5 (low) on the Atheism Index, Ireland is tied for 10th with the three others, and China is highest. Ireland is actually behind not only the Western European average, but also the USA in religiosity. That's the big surprise I think: Americans are more religious than Irish according to this report.
eiriamach | Aug 09, 2012, 05:55 PM EDT
HermitTalker concedes that "grievous errors were made in ignorance" but tries to convince us that those who made the errors were "diseased," sick, so they bear no responsibility for devastated lives and deserve no blame. Those on the outside of the Church, HermitTalker says, cannot judge those on the inside, ah but those on the outside, HermitTalker says, should repent their own "sick-selfish ways" because they, not the pedophiles or pedophile-protectors, need "forgiveness"! If they don't overlook the sickness of the pedophiles, they're hypocrites, according to HermitTalker. Incredible! "Only Jesus can judge their hearts" the Hermit says. As I recall, in the same chapter of Matthew (7) that he said "Do not judge," Jesus warned us to be always alert, always to be testing those who claim "authority" over his followers: "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them." That's one judgment that Christians can't afford to let slide.
hermitTalker | Aug 09, 2012, 11:29 AM EDT
To the challenge that I denied coverup- I made it clear grevious errors were made in ignorance until medical data explained the disease of abuse as well as alcoholsim which used be treated by prayer and nothing much else. Philadeelphia has had two archbishops since Cdl Bevilaqua so we are talking quite a while back, the indicted vicar was from his time. As to Cdl J R, now BXV1, there is absolutely no cover-up to explain, MORE importantly, most of the IC posts on Catholic topics remind me of the blind men trying to describe an Elephant. To judge the Christian Faith, which has been based in Rome since Peter was cricified for it, and is buried under the papal altar, one has to come inside. Be converted by hearing Jesus say "be converted, turn totally around, see your own sick-selfish ways and accept forgiveness and share it with others. Anything else is hypocricy, whether from peasant or high Church official, but only Jesus can judge their hearts and our own. Do not judge in that sense.
DrTrelawney | Aug 09, 2012, 06:34 AM EDT
I was about to note that there's nothing "alarming" about it, but I see others have beaten me to it. Glad to see that. This is very good news. The tyranny of religion does seem to be on the wane. Hooray!
Curitiba | Aug 09, 2012, 04:54 AM EDT
All part of the deconstruction of Ireland, softening it up whatever unpleasantness that is planned for it. The Catholic Church had better drag itself out its comfortable way of thinking if it doesn't want to become a footnote in Irish history.
mairint | Aug 09, 2012, 04:51 AM EDT
Who are you Red C ? Please tell us your credentials and your own slant. What way do you phrase your questions. Do you classify all 'non religious' as atheists or do you have any agnostics in your listings. Polls are very subjective and usually reflect the intentions of those who set it up. For those of us who have stayed the course we do not think The Almighty lied when he said "The gates of Hell will not prevail" against the Church. When folk, who should know better, turn their backs and mock Him they are taking a huge gamble. Beannacht De oraibh.
lakeisle | Aug 09, 2012, 03:49 AM EDT
Christianity isn't the only religion available. I'm originally from Dublin and I joined a non-Christian faith group based on the ancient texts from India (such as the Bhagavad Gita) in 1993, and I've been very happy ever since. This group I'm involved in is theistic.
pilib04 | Aug 08, 2012, 10:07 PM EDT
wilhoef, read a post you wrote on guantanamo. you want to get rid of president obama? that ship has sailed. it is numerically impossible for willard to win the electoral votes necessary. you may just have to suffer for four more years. is feidir linn.
pilib04 | Aug 08, 2012, 09:59 PM EDT
wilhoef, referring to the politicization of the mass. the use of the mass as a political forum. it has been going on for a long time. but it seemed to end after vatican 2. now under the current pope it has re-emerged. bishops issuing pastoral letters about what catholics should or shouldn't believe. some bishops to their credit have ignored these directives, but they are in the minority.
timbobdennehy | Aug 08, 2012, 09:50 PM EDT
should of happened a long long time ago.
aloistmartin | Aug 08, 2012, 07:57 PM EDT
Anyone for a Pint O Guinness @?..!
lokionline | Aug 08, 2012, 07:54 PM EDT
I see I am not the only one who wonders what is "alarming" about this encouraging sign.
helmet365 | Aug 08, 2012, 07:22 PM EDT
An atheist is only saying they do not believe in the trinity story (three make one God). All religions have a different story, a language to express what they feel is the real answer to life and and how it startd etc,usually handed down to them. To me the answer should be none of us know. This does not mean we have given up the idea there is a superior being.I say, when i die whatever is there i accept. If horses had a god it would be a horse,so humans say God must be a man. As humans we do not have the mental capacity to know the answer.
Eamonnca1 | Aug 08, 2012, 07:18 PM EDT
"Alarming"? I would have thought "encouraging" was a more appropriate word.
Rebelforce | Aug 08, 2012, 06:54 PM EDT
I'm glad the Apostles didn't lose their faith because of Judas Iscariot, or we all might be praying to Buddha or living under Talmudic or Shar'iah Law today.
KateyMc | Aug 08, 2012, 06:25 PM EDT
TO HERMIT TALKER: There's no proof of denial or a cover up???? You've got to be kidding! Of course there was a cover up. They're STILL covering it up....or hiding behind the Statute of Limitations. Keep your head in the sand & you'll stay a good Catholic. Ratzinger was covering this up before he was Pope! The scandal starts at the top & trickles down. Have you followed the Philadelphia case at all?
gordongoblin | Aug 08, 2012, 05:46 PM EDT
Alarming is a strange word for something as positive as loss of faith.
JBRAFTREE | Aug 08, 2012, 04:40 PM EDT
Well said Murph!! Yes Warlocks, but I'm too old to stray, an usher for the last 25 yrs and I love what I do. S F Warlocks!!
murphy666 | Aug 08, 2012, 04:24 PM EDT
They may be dropping away from the institutional Church, but they'll never turn their backs on the Blessed Mother, nor she on them.
warlocks | Aug 08, 2012, 03:37 PM EDT
the Catholic church has no one to blame but themselves they covered up their lies & Criminal Priests & Bishops for over a thousand years. who in their right mind would trust their children with any catholic priest.the Church has been on a Downward trend long before the general public has known Pedophiles in the church when christ founded his religion before it was the Roman Catholic Church Jesus & his Mother along with his Apostles othodox Jews and never Roman Catholic .
seamusdenais | Aug 08, 2012, 03:37 PM EDT
When plastic religion dies, true faith begins
markday | Aug 08, 2012, 03:20 PM EDT
Portia, I have read and heard a lot about how we won or lost in Vietnam. But never have I heard any of this laid at the feet of the Jesuits. Tell me more aobut those bastards and how I can get even with them. -- Mark
Sophium | Aug 08, 2012, 02:47 PM EDT
Wow, thank you, hybernia, for that quote by Albert Einstein. I have always believed in God and it makes more rational sense than believing there is no God because of the arguments put forward by Thomas Aquinas. There must be a "first mover" or else there is no cogent explanation for this physical universe. St. Thomas, I now see, has to be mistaken because Albert the Great is god. He knows all. So, I am glad that he and you, hybernia, have finally gotten me to see the light (or, maybe it is the darkness). Think about it, hybernia. Maybe you are not as secure in your supposed unbelief as you think.
hybernia | Aug 08, 2012, 02:23 PM EDT
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can change this." Albert Einstein.
ePHraimAg | Aug 08, 2012, 11:45 AM EDT
My Belief is that The Most should graduate church as You do school and We all ought to know are tenets of fAith. After all, Saint Patrick would have died in vain if fAith was dried up in our Irish culture , North and South. All of us ought to Be able to stand as Men and Women who have Right Counsel and a formidable knowledge Of fAith and thus make one and each Independent and an asset to the the community, and not that of the church. An empty church is a prosperous church, duly that it has performed its task and will continue to Be a learning centre and edification Of The People. The Question to one and all...can We stand alone in Our fAith, is Our fAith strong enough if the church disappeared tomorrow?...and if so, You are now The ChurCh.
Canadian | Aug 08, 2012, 11:37 AM EDT
Perhaps the "check the boxes" choices in the census are too limiting. If people are turning away from the organized religion of the Roman Catholic Church, the only alternative seems to be "atheist" I would not be surprized however that people are reluctant to use that option as people may still consider themsleves Christian.
hermitTalker | Aug 08, 2012, 11:23 AM EDT
We are all familiar with "cultural" religion, and its use by politicians for their purposes and family "honour" which is a bond that is severed when the dissenter is not in the home village to be scrutinised. Then we had the poll in 2011 which showed that most of the Irish people thought that 35 % of the clergy were child abusers, which the actual number was less than 5% and boundary violations, kissing or bum slapping was equated to sodomy and rape. Then there is the ongoing non-story of Vatican cover-up, there is absolutely no evidence, there was lots of confusion about the rights of the accused and privacy of tthe accusers in Canon, Church, law and civil law but that was all cleared up by Cdl Ratziner in the CDF when he took over that role for minors under JP 11 and then as Pope. Moving clergy around was before the sciences and psychology and psychiatry helped show the emotional factors in abuse as AA did decades earlier for alcololism when the only "cure" was to take the pledge or go on retreat to the Cistercians/Trappists. The more advanced approach to Religious Formation is to take it from brain to heart and try to re-evangelise earlier generations who had mostly law, rule, hell and punishment instead of an invitation into Jesus# Heart to experience Love and share it. I feel so sad for the negative IC posters who see only evil and miss the beauty. Same happened to Jesus Himself, a devil possessed or GOD IS LOVE in the Flesh.
wilhoef | Aug 08, 2012, 11:17 AM EDT
Pilib04, what do you mean by "distractions of a political nature?" I am curious and the debate intensifies my curiosity.
pilib04 | Aug 08, 2012, 11:13 AM EDT
The Red C poll is NOT a poll. It is a questionaire that Red C makes available. It is not a scientific poll. The participants self-select. It has no basis in science whatsoever. The Irish Voice/Central should be very clear up front that these are not scientific polls. Red C simply allows people to vote.
pilib04 | Aug 08, 2012, 11:08 AM EDT
I have to admit, I would probably quit the Catholic Church on the spot if one of my kids was raped by a priest. Knowing that these monsters are stilling operating is quite disconcerting. I would attend Mass more often if there were not so many distractions of a political nature. I am going to check out the service conducted by a woman priest.
butlerreport | Aug 08, 2012, 10:24 AM EDT
That anyone attended church at all in Ireland following the revelation of the abuse our children and the coverup by the Vatican is a testament to the power of denial. The Catholic Church is a dinosaur in need of being put down.
KateyMc | Aug 08, 2012, 10:21 AM EDT
To use an 'Americanism'...."Well DUH!" The Church has pathetically tried to minimize the scandals, moving priests around from Parish to Parish, denying, denying, denying, or saying "I was only doing what I was told". The men & women we had such trust & faith in have failed all of us. The Hierarchy is a huge embarrassment, just a bunch of silly men in dresses making sure their own lives continue 'as is'. Ireland may have been one of the most recent to discover their own scandals,just may be the ones to lead the way to total reform....or dropping the Church altogether. I'm a 65 yr. old Catholic School educated woman & you couldn't pay me to enter the Church any more.
Portia777 | Aug 08, 2012, 10:09 AM EDT
“It’s so difficult for the bishops to provide leadership because, on the one hand, if they speak out, they are criticised, and if they don't speak out, they are also criticised.” No excuses. Their conscience is their compass.
hunter933 | Aug 08, 2012, 10:08 AM EDT
Took long enough.
Portia777 | Aug 08, 2012, 10:08 AM EDT
Please call it as it is- The ROMAN Catholic church, which is not the same as the Catholic church.Who in their right mind would remain a member of a child raping, abusing brainwashing cult? To remain a member is to say you agree with the sacred rite of priests to molest children.
Portia777 | Aug 08, 2012, 10:05 AM EDT
"The paper reports that only Vietnam has seen a bigger drop in people declaring themselves to be religious over the past seven years"No surprise there after what Jesuits did in Vietnam war.Vietnam, why did we go. Explains it all so well.
mollymguire | Aug 08, 2012, 09:44 AM EDT
And why wouldn't the country abandon the religion that tortured their children & held their parishoners hostage to a hateful religion for so long? And what the Mass has become is alienating not designed to bring congregants closer to the ceremony. The Mass now is a demonstration the Vatican thinks its better, smarter, more Godly than those who sit in the pews. The Mass has become a worship of the process, the celebrants, not God. So bravo to Ireland again! She may have once been in the dark as to what was going on, but she isn't anymore.
Seanmor | Aug 08, 2012, 09:02 AM EDT
The article doesn't clarify what is meant by the term "ireland", the whole Irish nation or the 'independent' Irish state? It quotes the Apchbishop of Dublin but does NOT mention the Archbishop of Armagh, who is the Primate of All-Ireland. The R.C. Church and all other Christian denominations in Ireland are organized in such a manner as to consider all of that country a single national entity.