Ireland under legal obligation to select sites for abortion says expert group

Eireamach - I was actually not speaking to this particular case. I was referring to the illogic of taking one exceptional case and making generalisations based on that. I understand the complications and issues in this particular sad case. A dying or dead fetus clearly does not have rights above the mother; totally agree. I should have been clearer.

Smyrnian mis-states the case for fetal rights. The context is crisis pregnancy. An incomplete miscarriage leads to sepsis that threatens a pregnant woman's life. In that context, it's easy to answer Smyrnian's question: the dying fetus (already doomed by miscarriage) does not have the right to command that the woman die with it. It makes only as much sense to speak of a dying fetus' "right to life" as it makes to speak of ANY death as unfortunate. But it is heavily immoral, tragic and inhumane to sacrifice the life of a pregnant woman to the "right to life" of a dying fetus. To do so obliterates, makes a farce of, the woman's supposedly universal "right to life."

Among 27 states in the Council of Europe, ONLY Ireland and Andorra/Romania do NOT allow abortion to protect the physical health of a pregnant woman. Ireland is among a minority that do not allow abortion to protect the mental health of a woman and do not allow it in cases of foetal abnormality and rape and incest. While the report ("Expert Group on the Judgment in A, B, and C v Ireland," pdf online) considers Ireland to have abortion available only to protect a woman's life, even that protection proves --in practice-- impossible, impracticable. That right cannot prevail as long as the constitution gives an "equal" right to life to the unborn. This situation is appallingly cynical, functioning only to give medical practitioners excuses for allowing women to die needlessly in crisis pregnancies. Protecting the human right to life of women requires repeal of section 40.3.3 of the constitution, along with the anti-abortion provisions of the 1861 law.

hermitTalker has it all wrong. The experts did NOT decide "there is no justification to widen the practice in use at present." That decision was not within their mission. They were asked to present a list of options to clarify the constitutional provision 40.3.3. Also, it is not "rare" for pregnancy to threaten women's lives in Ireland; Irish women are not immune to such problems. While we'll never know how many Irish women seek abortions (or die) outside of Ireland in crisis pregnancies, we know this: "The report of the confidential Maternal Death Enquiry (MDE) in Ireland says that there were 25 maternal deaths for the period 2009-2011.... two of these deaths were due to suicide." HermitT is also wrong about protecting both woman and fetus: It is in practice impossible that Irish law "equally protects mother and baby," and to continue under that delusion is unconscionable in the aftermath of the Halappanavar case. To continue a law that results in double deaths-- woman and fetus-- is certainly NOT "Perfectly in acccord with Natural law." It is unthinkable that any modern state jurisdiction would consider itself empowered to hand out an "entitlement" to life only to some pregnant women whose pregnancies endanger their lives but to withhold it from others. A right to life is a universal human right, not to be withheld on a whim of a committee member.

Thanks for the rational comments here. The medical experts in Ireland hace decided there is no justification to widen the practice in use at present, IF a mother's life is threatened by her baby which very rarely happens in Ireland, the baby is taken, the principle of double effect- I cannnt cut your legs off but if they are threatening your life, off they come, I have nothing against your legs but they threaten your life. Perfectly in acccord with Natural law and the Irish Constitution which equally protects mother and baby. The psychiatric community said that the threat to "health" from suicidal ideation is just as real for the mental health of those who had abortions- killing your own for selfish reasons, regardless of the emotional state at the time leads to much mental anguish including suicidal thoughts. The law does not allow me to decide if the man who rapes my granddaughter lives or dies. The State decides that, not my hatred of the man and his violation of her body. More pertinent now is that GALWAY had one maternal death in 17 years, before Savita; Ireland had five maternal deaths in 100,000 births, and no on yet knows why Savita died since her body was poisoned and whether an earlier termination of the baby who was going to die anyway would have headed that off. I trust medical experts as noted way before I trust the death-in-the womb brigade as evidenced by those two signs above this story. Before the facts are known. The Todd Akin comment was bad wording, not stupid thinking.Check the contradictory points made about the HHS mandate and on Bengazi by Mr Obama and Mr Biden before the election, including the debates. "Truth anyone?"

Eiramach - picking the exceptions to define the rules for all perhaps. Babies have eights and lives too.

"women who are 'legitimately entitled'" -- is this like "women who are 'legitimately raped,'" to use the arrogant words of US Senate nominee Todd Akin of Missouri? Fortunately, Mr. Akin and his misogynist word soup didn't win that election. I wonder how many doctors and potential review system members think they are "legitimately entitled" to decide which rights, if any, any pregnant woman will have. Is there anyone here who thinks he or she is "legitimately entitled" to decide whether a woman will be "legitimately entitled" to abort a crisis pregnancy that threatens her life?

Bowing to our European masters, Mairint. First economic union, then legislative union and then social union. Sad.

Shame on IC, shame on the Irish government for appointing pro-abortion promoters as "experts" as if they can advise with wisdom. Pro aborts are pro kill the unborn child and a 'little bit of abortion' is just the crack in the door as we have seen elsewhere. Over 56 million American babies have been murdered - more than all military in all the wars America has been involved in. No wonder the world has gone mad when mothers want their own children killed - for convenience, for social reasons, for economic reasons, because it was a 'one-night stand', because their 'man' is bullying them into it...think of any other reasons? The same result, an innocent life is snuffed out. How great was Hitler? It is disgusting to read how journalists and judges can bootstomp on the right to life of babies. You will face judgement eventually so watch out....

IC sure loves it's abortion stories and, of course anything pro-gay or anything to do with Christine Quinn. No lefty agenda, of course. Never any facts on IC just opinion after lefty opinion.

Lack of abortion did not kill Savita. She is just being used by the radical pro-abortion crowd to rally the troups and get the bullies at EU salivating over legal abortion in Ireland.

The woman dies while politicos debate.

what is needed is a place for everything and everything in its place mit germans footing the bill. Irish natives fleeing for their lives risking everything in lands beyond the sea and numbers of suicides mounting and we have to worry about a one off death - no computee.

The 1861 abortion laws were enacted when all of Ireland was ruled by Great Britain. The British Abortion Act of 1969 did not apply to the part of Ireland controlled by Westminister, and there is still strong pro-life support on both sides of the divide in the North. But since the South has surrendered much of its sovereignty to the E.U., the Parliament in Brussels and the Court in Strasbourg are propably empowerd to force the Dáil to establish abortion clinics in the territory over which it still has limited jurisdiction.