The Daily Telegraph’s recent publication of a blog inviting Irish jokes has provoked strong emotions. Mr O’Dowd recently wrote a column commenting on my perspective on this issue: "Huffington Post column is in favour of printing anti-Irish jokes."
Mr. O’Dowd makes a very fair point about the sensitivities of those who lived in Britain in the past. Those people, he says, remember real and virulent prejudice against Irish people. I too recall being rudely searched in Heathrow and in ferry ports during the IRA bombing campaigns of the early 1990s. I can understand why people who suffered from real anti-Irish prejudice in the past would not like seeing Irish jokes being bandied about again.
Thick-skinned
But the point I make is that free speech requires us to be a little bit thick-skinned. Free speech is endangered in the world today, precisely because of new laws designed to stop people being offended. On a global scale, free speech as regards religion is under threat at since the UN introduced the concept of “defamation of religion” last year. Soon you may not be able to criticize any religious idea, however bad or dangerous it may be: all because people don’t want to be offended.
Most people in Britain today have a lot of respect for the Irish. Despite the current recession, Irish people remain on average wealthier than the British. The Irish have a massive impact on British culture and media, from Graham Norton, to Terry Wogan to Dara O’Brian. I think that we need to get over the idea that the British look down on us. They don’t any more. They envy us: our culture is strong and thriving while theirs is confused and in crisis. We have a strong sense of identity and kinship while Britain frets over its “broken society.” Here is West Cork there are thousands of English people who have fled a society that they feel is falling apart.
Some people have said that Irish jokes are “racist” but this is an abuse of the word. There is no racial difference between British and Irish people: take a hundred random pictures of Irish faces and British faces, and you won’t be able to tell the one from the other. Genetic studies also show that there is little or no racial difference between the two peoples. Both also share an inordinate tendency to drink tea.
Jokes about the English
And let’s not forget that in Ireland we have tons of jokes about the English, the Scots and others. If we ban all Irishman jokes, what next? If someone from Dingle claims offence, must we ban all Kerryman jokes? Then the cute hoors from Cavan will cop on to the “being offended” industry, and will sue people for making Cavan jokes. If we carry on like that, we will have no jokes, and no freedom of speech.
Many of the “offensive” commenters who left jokes had Irish names and mentioned their own Irish ancestry. They just weren’t overly sensitive about it and were happy to tell jokes at their own expense. Most of these jokes were harmless, but one or two peripherally mentioned the famine. That hits a deep vein with me, as it does with Irish people everywhere. Perhaps some British people don’t understand how the ancestral memory of that horror is still alive in us. Do such jokes cause hurt and cause offence? Yes.
Yet every nation and people has its horror stories: the Russians lost 18 million people in the Second World War. As recently as 1979, the Cambodians saw one quarter of their population eradicated. I need not mention what befell the Jews. These atrocities happened not because of racist jokes, but because books were burned and freedom of speech was curtailed.
Outdated caricatures
Ireland is an amazing little nation which has had a disproportionate impact on the world. Irish people are at the top of every field of human endeavour: business, science, law, politics, literature, sport, everything. We do not need to get offended about outdated caricatures of ourselves, because the world knows that they are no longer true. Perhaps its time we learned that ourselves. British people tell jokes about Americans, and Americans have jokes about the “limeys”. They don’t get upset, they just laugh and get on with things.
We will know that we have truly overcome the legacy of British rule when we banish the old inferiority complex that causes every perceived slight to be amplified beyond reason. We will have arrived as a grown up nation, the equal of Britain, when we no longer get offended at Irish jokes but just shoot back (with a joke, that is). I do not say that Douglas Murray is wise in calling for Irish jokes. Where I agree with him is when he says this:
"If people honestly think that in a thriving democratic society you can police peoples' humour when it is not illegal, then you are going to be in real trouble.”
The alternative to a free society is an Orwellian tyranny where our thoughts and words are policed by the state. If the price of freedom is occasionally being offended, we should be willing to pay it.
28 Comments
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Switch to the desktop site to post a comment.andrew49 | Dec 02, 2010, 10:43 AM EST
Ha-ha, I love that bit: ""They [the British] envy us: our culture is strong and thriving while theirs is confused and in crisis. We have a strong sense of identity and kinship while Britain frets over its “broken society.”"" No comment needed from me.
newenglander | Mar 29, 2010, 10:14 PM EDT
During "The Troubles" in Belfast, A man was surrounded and asked if he was a Catholic or a Protestant. He answered that he was a Jew. Whereupon, he was asked if he was a Catholic Jew or a Protestant Jew?
BigGuns | Feb 25, 2010, 07:22 PM EST
The huffington post is a joke!!!!
kpbdublin | Feb 22, 2010, 11:49 AM EST
Paddy the Irishman, Paddy the Englishman and Paddy the Scotsman walked into a bar. Barman says, "Is this some kind of joke?''
Noreen09 | Feb 22, 2010, 06:00 AM EST
Americans have jokes about 'limeys'? Like, um, maybe if this were 1949... In any case, Murray was being intentionally provocative in calling for Irish jokes, and went a bit farther than a mere defense of free speech. It was puerile. Sure some of those jokes are funny; that one about the Irish electrician burned to a crisp was frankly disturbing. Some ethnic jokes are harmless and entertaining; some open a little window into someone's hate-filled world. Murray had a totally valid point to make about being over-the-top in our sensitivities, but to deny that ethnic jokes sometimes arise out of (and can help to promulgate) hateful attitudes toward specific groups is sticking your head in the sand. We might like to think of the Irish as being so successful we're beyond ridicule, as Fitzgerald attests, but there are people still alive in the UK today who suffered terribly as a result of being Irish there in difficult times. A bit of balance is needed on both sides. Murray is right in saying that a society that polices the thoughts of its members is enormously dangerous, but that doesn't mean that we should never consider the sensitivities of others.
Canadian | Feb 21, 2010, 10:29 PM EST
Everyone seems to agree that the irish have a good sense of humour and can tolerate "Irish" jokes and indeed promulgate them. But do the English have the same sense of humour? Is what is funny to an Irish person because of a twist in the interpretation of the story perhaps funny to an English person because of the sense of superiority derived? I have seen different appreciations of humour between Ireland, England and America. As to the comments about non-recognition of ethnicity from photographs, tell that to someone from Bosnia.
Maoleitigh | Feb 21, 2010, 10:28 PM EST
If the joke is funny, great! If not, it should not be told. Laughter is great medicine, if we can't laugh at ourselves, what can we laugh at? Ethnic jokes, whether Irish, Polish, Jewish, whatever have been funny all through times past. No reason they shouldn't be now.
mandokeith | Feb 21, 2010, 08:24 PM EST
It is true that a seperation between Irish and British cannot be seen in photos, they are very much the same people. For me the important people are the Irish, I would not walk across the street to spit on a Brit, but Irish jokes can be quite funny when they are not used to create a class distinction between the two peoples. The Irish have been treated like dirt by the brits and that is where the divide can begin. The Irish can laugh at themselves quite well, and usually do; but if the brits attemp to elevate themselves by beating doen the Irish then that is when it stops being funny. Old wounds can be painful and heal quite slowly.
jmohan01 | Feb 21, 2010, 03:05 PM EST
We need to keep our sense of humor. The Irish are no longer at the bottom of the ladder, but lest we forget. We should never allow a joke to be made about the famine. We sometimes forget our own history, and those who came before us that gave us this opportunity to be so much better off than most of our ancestors. Keep an open mind and a sense of humor, but have the courage to speak up an honor those who had been left behind.
manhattan | Feb 21, 2010, 02:24 PM EST
Its the Irish sense of humor that has saved them throughout a very sad history. No one enjoys a good irish joke more then the irish themselves.
BORNIRISH | Feb 21, 2010, 12:27 PM EST
I can't believe (pinch me) that I agree with the 'Huffy Post' on anything however, this is a first. It's important to be able to laugh at ourselves and I don't want to be like the blacks who upon every big of criticism make it a crusade for retribution.
Liamish | Feb 21, 2010, 12:23 PM EST
I think that British people have a lot of respect for the Irish and particularly since the Celtic Tiger was born 20 years ago.We have beaten all the Home Countries in rugby Union Football over the past few years and we played a big part in the Ryder Cup wins over The US in recent times.Young people are more confident and don't carry 1916 on their backs anymore.The people have learned to move on and accept the occasional joke at their expense.
killowen | Feb 21, 2010, 11:58 AM EST
I'm all for jokes as long as g-d's ain are treated equally. Let's give ample airing to those goy jokers with chutzpah to be so bold. Now wait and you'll see the fit hit the shan. Have a nice day.
erieshark | Feb 21, 2010, 11:17 AM EST
The Irish are the last ethnic group on earth who maintain a sense of humor. Irish jokes are a staple of growing up in an Irish family, an Irish community, or at Irish gatherings. I get almost daily a round of jokes from my Irish friends. My departed Irish Mother said, "There is nothing worse than an Irishman without a sense of humor."
hchriste | Feb 21, 2010, 10:14 AM EST
there are Irish jokes that should not be repeated or published like all jokes, but Irish jokes are kown to be the best in the world. We need to share them,
KathyCallahan | Feb 20, 2010, 10:32 PM EST
Rory, Post a photo contest...Display 20 Irish and British (not of Irish descent) photos without names and see if readers can't tell the difference. (:
seanomelbourne | Feb 20, 2010, 05:04 PM EST
I agree with DURyan It depends on where you live, in Australia it' ok to tell demeaning Irish jokes especially on breakfast radio (including the national broadcaster the anglophile ABC).The term "to laugh at ourselves" is so often misrepresented and an excuse to accept a demeaning position so as not to upset the status quo. Why should "Irish jokes' be acceptable when to do so for other groups is condsidered wrong.
rhunter67 | Feb 20, 2010, 04:13 PM EST
People need to lighten up a little. As long as the joke stays away from touchy issues such as the Famine and the Troubles there should be no serious offense taken. Being of both Irish and Italia background here in the States, I call friends guineas and micks freely, but don't go around calling my black friends niggers or Latin friends spics. The Irish are striking back because they are now in somewhat of a stronger position to effectively strike back in a fashion they may have learned about from America or France--whine about it.
tmitch57 | Feb 20, 2010, 01:56 PM EST
When I was growing up in the American Midwest I used to tell Polish jokes, and my mother is of Polish ancestry. I did this because I didn't think that anybody would take the joke seriously or believe that Poles were particularly stupid. I wouldn't have told similar jokes about blacks or Mexicans. So I guess it depends on how one predicts that the joke will be understood. Plus I would only tell jokes that I thought were actually funny. I wouldn't tell "jokes" that were basically simply racial or ethnic attacks. In South Africa it was common among whites to tell van der Merwe jokes about thick Afrikaners. Many Afrikaners told this jokes because they understood that the type of Afrikaner portrayed in the jokes actually existed and they wanted to demonstrate that they had a sense of humor.
Downunderyan | Feb 20, 2010, 06:11 AM EST
They are not funny or clever. They are an insidious way of harming somebody psychologically, as much as using a sharp knife to inflict a grievous bodily wound, and for somebody with an Irish name like Rory Fitzgerald to be defending their usage shows just how psychologically damaged a person can be. Rory needs psychological help to attain some sense of his own worth and dignity as a human being. I'd challenge Rory and his ilk to go to an African-American neighbourhood or a Jewsih neighbourhood and tell racist jokes about those people and try to rationalise with them why they shouldn't be offended or get angry with him. My kids grew up in Australia (last bastion of the British Empire) when it was not only common practice to tell Irish 'jokes' but it was exempted from legislation designed to combat racial hatred and racial discrimination. Being a 'special case' and designated target for abuse made life extremely uncomfortable for my kids growing up where they could not retaliate by telling the same 'joke' back to the offender with a different name because those others were protected by law. As a parent, it was difficult trying to explain to a tearful child why they were singled out for abuse. Perhaps Rory (and for that matter Douglas Murray from the Institute of Social Cohesion) doesn't have any children and therefore doesn't have to rationalise that treatment to a defenceless child.
kickstar | Feb 20, 2010, 05:02 AM EST
OK try this one then. Rory you are an Irish Joke.
dermot.r | Feb 20, 2010, 01:20 AM EST
So...should I order some of the old black and white minstrel shows to inspire some new racial jokes? It's been a while since that was okay to do. Or how about some medival depictions of Jews, always great for coming up with new jokes. It's funny (NOT) how bigots so often hide under the skirts of Freedom of Speech to defend their incitement to hatred. Granted, we can't legislate decency and kindness -- but we can put a limit on some freedoms in order to protect them. Sounds counter intutive - but it works. You can't yell "Fire! Fire!" in the theater or joke about bringing a bomb aboard an airplane. These things are not protected under "Freedom of Speech". Why should those jokes which demean and de-humanize one group or another be protected?
windrider48 | Feb 19, 2010, 08:29 PM EST
As to criticism being stifled, one cannot relate "jokes" as real critical thinking. We should never demean a religion, but that does not eliminate true criticism. Colbert and Daily are not critics, they are entertainers who use their shows to demean. When was the last time Letterman was funny? Satire is legitimate criticism, but satire is far more sophisticated than Letterman, Leno, Colbert, or Daily.
windrider48 | Feb 19, 2010, 08:27 PM EST
As to criticism being stifled, one cannot relate "jokes" as real critical thinking. We should never demean a religion, but that does not eliminate true criticism. Colbert and Daily are not critics, they are entertainers who use their shows to demean. When was the last time Letterman was funny? Satire is legitimate criticism, but satire is far more sophisticated than Letterman, Leno, Colbert, or Daily.
windrider48 | Feb 19, 2010, 08:22 PM EST
It isn't so much that ethnic jokes are or are not funny, rather it's the intent of telling the joke in the first place. I have a catalog of very funny Irish jokes, which when told as jokes, are funny. If we use an anecdote to intentionally demean a race or creed, it's never funny. I particularly detest the not so subtly demeaning "luck of the Irish".
kickstar | Feb 19, 2010, 04:36 PM EST
In the "Do you think Irish jokes should be banned" Replace the word 'Irish' with any of the following ' Nigerian Pakistani, Native Americans, Chinese, Disabled people, etc.. Making jokes about people just is not funny.
PatrickLee | Feb 19, 2010, 03:59 PM EST
This is as they say LOL funny. Two lib blogs at odds with each other. It just makes my day.
Sectionhand | Feb 19, 2010, 11:56 AM EST
Ah ... Ya Silly Cods ! Don't ye see the humour in it !!!!