Hoover FBI tactics used against Irish priests by Vatican, claims superior

I quote Intercessor | Apr 08, 2012, 10:13 PM EDT "Australian Catholics have a name for their good, fellow parishioners, who report every little infraction in word or deed performed by a priest, to their bishop, archbishop or cardinal. They are ominously called, "The Temple Police".........Thanks for reminding me of another "temple police". The "Mutwah" the islamic police who enforce the religious laws in Saudi land..........................Never realzied before that the pope and the church are learning from the people who gave America 9-11, London the subway bombings, dont think Ireland has had any of this particular type of tragedy ONe has to wonder what kind of "peace talks" did the pope have a couple years ago when he went to the mideast and met with the head Mufti of Islam in that area.

Wonder when the firing squads will be sent to old Ireland. I dont mean the pink slip people but the ones with fire sticks. boom. Its about the only thing the church hasnt done to try and shut up dissenters...........Thank God it doesnt dare claim immunity from laws against murder. - yet.

All orthodox Christianities are counterfeit. Institutional dinosaurs cannot be reformed, only replicated, as in Luther's protestantism,, a case of out of the frying pan into the fire. The real temple is in your heart, not in some external architectural structure. Free your mind. Read the Gnostic Gospels! The gospels pompous Alexandrian and Lyonaise bishops didn't want you to read.

Well this is a bit dismaying. Intercessor challenges my comment about Jesus reference to obedience to the Church as being tantamount to obeying heaven. I gave him a thoughtful response including Scripture references. It remains up for a day or so, but now has been removed. What I am I to draw from that?

I did not post the comment at Apr 09, 2012, 09:40 AM EDT below. IC bugs crawling again! When I opened this page, that comment had no name on it, and now it has mine--wrong!

Intercessor, I had a similar experience in Catholic school. I recall one episode in third grade or fourth, when the nun was explaining Martin Luther's reforms as a grave sin of disobedience to the pope. I asked one of those stupid Catholic grade school questions: "Is Luther in hell now?" The nun replied quickly, "Of course!" But then, it was as though a lightning bolt struck her, and she put her hand over her mouth, and when she spoke again she said, "We can't know the answer to that question. Only God knows whether Luther was really guilty of a mortal sin of disobedience. Only God knows if Luther followed his conscience or the devil" (or words to that effect). That was my first introduction to the idea of conscience and free will, and it was scary to think that one man's free speech could so much change history. Children and popes are frightened of freedom! I think Dante saw Luther coming somehow. As a devout Catholic, Dante wrote the great book about Hell and told us where in Hell some of the popes ended up. He used his artistic freedom well, and the Catholic Church has gotten much use out of his descriptions of the Inferno (although it condemned the work for a while).

@ Intercessor: Jesus speaks of the Church’s authority in Matthew 16 where he endows upon it “the keys of the kingdom” among other things. ------ “I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.” ***************************** Paul speaks of the authority of the Church here: 1 Timothy 3:14 Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

The Vat 11 document on Religious Fredoom is a marvellous document, except that it does not apply within The Roman Catholic Church

@Colette 2 A somewhat abrupt and rather impolite post. Given that various Superiors of Irish Religious Orders have been involved in the clergy abuse scandal, as well as Cardinals and Bishops, Iunless you think iy is God's Will of course, then I would think it somewhat obvious that these men can hardly be gauarantors of God's Will! I would put it to you Colette that no human being can be the guarantor od God's Will. Perhaps a goo spiritual director may be in order!

Turzovka: Your post said, "Jesus said in so many words, if we are obedient to The Church, we are obedient to heaven." Where does it say anything like that in the Bible? It's not in the Bible that I've studied for almost 40 years, and I doubt if it is in yours! Perhaps you're quoting an old nun or Spencer Tracey in an old Hollywood movie. You're surely not quoting the Gospel of Christ, who taught, "The Kingdom of God is WITHIN!"

To Eiriamach: I have often said, "Where is Dante Aligheri when we need him?" I think that many of us, who were raised Catholics, were beat up so much with nonsensical doctrines and dogmas, when we were younger, that when we grew old enough to realize that we had Free Will, one of the first things that we did was to leave the Church! I clearly remember the first argument I got into with a nun, when I was about 8 or 9 years old. Our class was told that we would "Go to Hell," if we disagreed with any Catholic Doctrine, Catholic Popes, etc. I asked, "What if our conscious tells us something doesn't make sense?" That was a really stupid question!!!! I felt that I was labeled as a potential heretic, which today, is a badge that I proudly wear! When I discovered Dante in college, I thought, "Where have you been all of my life?" It's too bad that Dante isn't taught in Catholic Schools as much as "The Laws of the Church," and catechism. If he were, we wouldn't have so many puppet, Pew-potatoes!

I mihgt add that i know the people at "new ways ministry" in the USA, a progressive, not head in the sand catholic organization.......................They told me that some of hte tricks the hierarchy uses to keep priests in line is sending dissenters to parishes spread all over the back woods country where they may have to drive to 5-6 little churches on sunday.................And also threatening to cut off the pensions of priests who dissent or tell the truth about the church.......................Just anther form of tyranny in the name of "love"

Australian Catholics have a name for their good, fellow parishioners, who report every little infraction in word or deed performed by a priest, to their bishop, archbishop or cardinal. They are ominously called, "The Temple Police." The dreaded "Temple Police" in Toowoomba, Australia reported their much beloved, Bishop Morris, to the Vatican. (Now is time to hear the opening strains of Bach's Prelude and Fugue in D minor.) Bishop Morris happened to voice his opinion that women and married men should be allowed to be priests. This was too much for the Vatican, who sent out Archbishop Chaput from Denver (recently promoted to Philly) to run a present-day Inquisition, which ended up removing Bishop Morris from his office! Luckily, or maybe it was an oversight, but Bishop Morris was not burned at the stake! No reason was given by Archbishop Chaput, and the reason that was given for Chaput not giving a reason was, "For the Good of All Concerned!" Yep! "For the good of ALL concerned," except Bishop Morris and the people who loved him! Temple Police 1, Bishop Morris 0.

aS usual the church will do anything to stay in its "comfort zone" the only questionis which century that is.

"The greatest gift that God in His bounty made in creation, and the most conformable to His goodness, and that which He prizes the most, was the freedom of will, with which the creatures with intelligence, they ***all*** and they alone, were and are endowed"—- Dante Alighieri. If Dante was right, then it destroys human dignity to obey like puppets, mindlessly, without question or debate, when a human being claiming to be God's personally appointed moral authority, commands us. Fr. Flannery is doing God's work with intelligence and dignity.