Hitler’s secret plans to invade Ireland revealed in new document

CurtisJ...Greek democracy was long dead...the only 'working model' was in the 'britain' thing...you can't wish it away...it still remains a fact...and a tedious fact to you and yours!!

Yes, a democracy in terms of the rights held by those defined by citizens. Read Aristotle or, for a modern analysis, Kagan. You constantly conflate structure with substance - the idea of a legislature is a basic one that has existed since antiquity. However, the mere existence of a legislative body is not ipso facto evidence of a democracy. From a substantive standpoint, this "britain" thing did not resemble a democracy in any shape or form over those "300 years" (or even presently) other than having an assembly they labeled a "parliament." Please spare the tedious and empty argument over the adjective "modern."

So the term parliament doesn’t have an Anglo-Saxon root? Hardly a revelation, as it was derived from the French ‘Parler’ meaning to talk…Norman-French being the dominant language of the day…and the Icelandic ‘Althing’ is often cited as one of the first examples of a parliament…

Greek city states were ‘pure democracies’? As long as a large slave population and the absence of female voting rights are consistent with pure democracy?

Your claim of ‘organic development’ in the major West European nations is nonsense, most of them weren’t even united until late in the 19th century…it cannot be denied that the British parliament has an unbroken line of development of over 300 years…and was a model and major influence on later democracies…

Incidentally, the first know version of a parliament in Western Europe was the Spanish Parliament of the Kingdom of Leon. The word doesn't even have an anglo-saxon root.

The US was much closer in terms of developing into a real democracy with checks on oligarchic power and faction. However, most of the ideas for the structure of government were lifted from Montesquieu.

what silliness - britain isn't even substantively a democracy now - it remains a rigid class based commercial oligarchy. If you had any reading comprehension skills, you'd see that I was referring to the fact that certain institutions organically develope from a regime that is structured on its surface as a democracy. The parliamentary structure in britain developed from the importation of the Italian city state oligarchic model - in particular Venice with the weak executive. You apparently haven't studied political history or theory - there were Greek city states that were pure democracies not "some forms".

While some forms of ‘democracy’ can be traced back to ancient times, the modern parliamentary model did indeed develop in your nemesis…the notion that they arise ‘organically’ is pure fiction. Take a look at the main European nations that formed the Common Market - France, Germany and Italy, as they were in 1800, the year the GB&I union was DEBATED in the two parliaments. Napoleon was the despotic leader of France, soon to be ‘Emperor’, had recently jailed Pope Pius IV, and was about to embark on his failed campaign to impose his imperial ways on the rest of Europe…Both Italy and Germany were collections of large and small states, Napoleon would try to subdue both…showing few traces of any ‘organic democracy’…While few would claim that the UK of the time was a democracy in modern terms, it is most certainly the only one of that group that has an unbroken timeline of steady progress to modern democracy…and barring the 1918 - 1922 period, the same applies to Ireland…reference to a Pearse-inspired model for Ireland is more pure fantasy and fiction… with no evidence offered to support the theory…whatever you imagine Pearse stood for, his ‘obvious devotion to young boys’ suggests his talents were not in the political sphere…

The models for britain's petty mercantile regime from bill the orange forward (and actually beginning with Cromwell's regicide) were the Italian banking oligarchies. Speaking substantively the "institutions" of state grew from this type of power structure. Are you going to tell us how the anglo-saxons invented democracy Dano?

Hey Curt...suggest you check on the actual facts re Europe before you continue with this nonsense...

Now towntroll will tell us all how the illiterate "anglo saxons" invented demcracy! No, the terror state did not originate any of these basic institutions and they are widespread in one form or another throughout Western europe and other structural "democracies" - they arise organically from the structure of government. I have never waivered from the fact that post-colonial self hatred careful fostered by the anglo oriented Dublin institutions (which have never really lost power since the times of occupation) as well as partition are the major problems in modern Ireland. The same phenomenon has occurred in post-colonial nations all over the world but Ireland, with little to no natural resources, has fared much better in terms of stability and developing a large middle class. A united Ireland under the values of Pearse would be a model state far superior to the degenerate mass consumerism and materialsm so prevalent among the anglo-sphere.

Ah, deary me!,CJ,. "The Institutions are in place ...all over the Western Europe..(World),etc". Based on the British System ,naturally,so I rest my case! But! you are totally missing the point(!!) and score a massive 'own goal' by admitting that because the Irish, having been granted independence,failed to change the (British) political culture is what has led it to it's current lamentable downfall!! Btw: (and finally on this thread, a chara -) Pearse had no intention of ever changing the Institutional or Administrative Structure either...(just their names - and with him in charge, and everybody obeying him - or else!). We can only speculate what a Devine mess he might have made of the place if his attempted coup has not failed. His government might not have lasted much longer than the 'rising' when the rest of the population realised the 'stroke' he had pulled off! But when all is said and done, from the social and political debris of 1916, we Irish can, at least, admire his personal courage in his chosen cause. "I see the road that lies before me - and the death that I shall die!" ~ "Patrick Pearse. R.I.P".

Towntroll, you sort of rose to the occassion on this one - I could make it through some of your rambling mess of exclamation points as your post was mildly entertaining this time. That some of the "institutions" are in place is meaningless as there are similar beauracratic structures in all of Western Europe and Ireland was occupied long before the rise of the modern nation state. As I've demonstrated, the lingering effects of the anglo-sphere in Dublin institutions is responsible for the nation's current difficulties.

DanO you simpleton - the net effect was to bail out primarily the foreign creditors of the banks who, although based in Ireland, were trans-national in character. No financial expert disputes this.