Historic move as Irish government drafts abortion legislation for 2013 vote

I really do not see how for example a fetus found with the chromosome responsible for Downs Syndrome poses any threat to the life of a mother. Rather it is the poorly-informed choices of many which leads to the high abortion rate of such fetuses which has an nasty undertone of eugenics about it. It has been conclusively shown that children with this genetic condition often bring much happiness and love into their families and often develop into well-rounded adults who contribute a lot to their communities. They have a right to live as much as anyone else. The recent Paralympic Games held in London this year, showed people with physical disabilities competing in various sporting activities with high levels of skill. Those competitors born with genetic disabilities were thankfully spared any second thoughts by their mothers on their God-given right to be born and should give those who advocate the targeting and destruction of fetuses carrying suspect genes, food for thought.

eiriamach, as always, I am impressed with the logic and soundness of your arguments. More important, I am impressed with the moral power of your reasoning, and your simple human decency. Brava!

Nobody addresses pregnancy through incest here. Our radio, tv interviewers don't challenge the men in frocks re. this when confronting them on air. This is to demonstrate that the arena for an open, honest debate does not exist in Ireland. Why must a girl who conceived due to a sexual assault/rape by an alcoholic predatory male blood-relative be compelled to bring the pregnancy to full term? I'm incredulous.

Just saw on CNN a factoid: In India 50.000 mothers die in child birth every year. That is to say that between probably 100 and 150 pregnant women died in India on the day that Ms Halapeno died. And the day after. And the day after that... And India (and the pro-abortion lobby in Ireland) got all sanctimonious and preachy about the death of one woman in Ireland? Didn't even wait for an investigation into the circumstances before rushing out with their self-righteous nonsense.

Gearoid asks, "Who are we to sit in the place of God and determine who lives and dies in this fashion?" Every time a surgeon removes a cancerous tumor or replaces a heart valve after a patient's cardiac failure or performs a needed kidney transplant, every time a family removes a brain-dead accident victim from machines that maintain blood circulation and air exchange, every time parents opt to have a stent inserted to drain killing fluid from the brain of a newborn, WE "determine who lives and dies in this fashion." WE have responsibility to preserve human life, but not in disregard of whether it IS human life or merely the preservation of a body from decay, with no human functions whatever. You would not deny life-saving surgery to the cancer victim, the heart-attack victim, the kidney-failure victim, or the hydrocephalic infant, no. Only women in crisis pregnancies would you leave at the mercy of nature, denying them a life-saving medical procedure-- on the transparent excuse that a non-viable 3-month foetus has an "equal right to life." Only to WOMEN who decide to bring new life into the world would YOU "sit in the place of God" and deny their own right to life when pregnancy becomes life-threatening crisis. What kind of God teaches YOU such tyranny?

I agree that you did not mean to say that "profoundly handicapped infants" should be subject to any form of "mercy" killing and do sincerely apologize for that. But my main points still stand concerning the immorality of using pre-natal screening to weed out fetuses who possess certain defective genes or chromosomes which may result in medical difficulties for them later on. This should not result in a death sentence being imposed on them, as they have every right to live as anyone else.

By the way, a fetus(not a child in your eyes) is fully human and cannot be classified as anything else. He or she has a heart-beat at 3 weeks and brain waves start to form, although the brain stem is at a early stage. Of course the stipulation of the Irish Constitution in favor of equal protection of the mother and child is viable and is a sane civilized provision in a world where pro-abortion propaganda is increasingly making the womb a very dangerous place for nascent life. Ireland has the necessary medical expertise to protect mother and child and do not the evil of abortion legislation to guarantee it.

Well, I re-read your original posting, Eiriamach and you do talk about " profoundly handicapped infants" and "first trimester fetuses". You think that it is fine to use medical scanning technology to detect medical defects in first trimester fetuses that may cause them serious problems later on in later childhood. You think that this is merciful in preempting and thus stopping unnecessary suffering later on. But this approach can be seen in the terrible outcomes of fetuses born with the defective chromosome which causes Down Syndrome, as at least 50%(other figures state 90%) of them are aborted annually in the US . Who are we to sit in the place of God and determine who lives and dies in this fashion?

No, Gearoid, I do NOT "talk about 'profoundly handicapped' children." I wrote about a three month or earlier FOETUS--which is by no stretch of a sane imagination a child--a foetus that will never be able to assimilate food or have any other human functions but is fated by irremediable congenital conditions to starve slowly to death after birth. It is stark cruelty to allow such suffering when the means to prevent it is in our hands. I did not write about "mercy." I wrote about PREVENTING SUFFERING--both of a newborn and of parents and health workers and anyone who knows of such tragic births. So there is NO WAY that I have advocated what you call "mercy killing" or euthanasia or eugenics! I advocate responsible child-bearing and parenting. Unless you are truly stupid, your distortion of what I wrote is unconscionable -- but typical of those who will not deal with life's harsher realities and prefer to demonize those who do face them. Your insistence that the Irish Constitution can give "equal" protection to the life of a non-viable foetus and the life of a pregnant woman struggling in incomplete miscarriage is not just untenable in the face of plain logic, but a telling retreat from the realities of pregnancy and childbirth. Such occurrences as I've described may be rare, but human beings must deal with them--humanely--applying consistent moral principle rather than romantic fantasies of denial and evasion! BTW: Your "trawl" of confidential medical records ought to put you in prison.

So does your Brain butlerreport.....

Ireland lives in the stone age.

The European Court of Justice has binding jurisdiction over EU Member States, and the European Court of Human Rights has binding jurisdiction over signatories of the European Convention on Human Rights. Ireland is both.

seatonshannon, you are either a fool or a fraud. First of all, your come-on has nothing to do with the issue under discussion. It's a cheap trick to con the dim-witted. What you describe is one of the most common scams on the internet, well documented over several years. The only folks who make money are the ones owning these websites - to whom dunces must sent money in order to obtain the secret to this bonanza - but you get no secret formula and there is no bonanza. I trust Irish Central readers will not be taken by this transparent scam.

If you think Stephen`s story is incredible,, in the last-month my sister's best friend basically recieved a check for $7703 putting in a fourty hour month in their apartment and they're roomate's half-sister`s neighbour has been doing this for four months and got over $7703 part time from their laptop. follow the tips from this address, wow92.com

MichaelMcGrath--You are right to draw attention to the rush to this legislation. Contrast that with Kenny and his ilk's utter failure to do anything about the exorbitant EU blackmail. They're just lapdogs when it comes to the EU bullies.